3000 Points against Dark Elves ToW

[Matzerella]

Hi everybody,

I am new to this forum, even though, #I have been playing for some time ( particularly 5th and 6th edition) …now I am back after about 20 years.

I will have on Saturday a match against our arch enemy the Dark Elves, playing the old world, 3000 points ( I am 6 points over, but that’s ok). My oponnent has a dragon, 2 Hydras, 2 Units of Warlocks, Witch Elves, Executioners, Black guards,...and essentially all the other goodies we don't like.

I came up with the following list, trying to focus on mobility, as hero hammer and cav seems to be the way forward in TOW. I also took into account the low toughness and inability of dark elves to deal with high strength attacks. Well, take a look at what I came up with and let me know what you think:


General:
Prince [424 pts]
Lance, Light armour, General, Star Dragon, Pure of Heart
Special Rules: Ithilmar Weapons, Strike First, Valour of Ages


Archmage [303 pts]
Hand weapon, Level 4 Wizard, Barded Elven Steed, Ogre Blade, Charmed Shield, Silvery Wand ( I decided against lore familiar, as silvery wand is cheaper and chances are pretty high to roll spectral doppelganger), Blood of Caledor ( will be attached to the dragon prince unit), Illusion
Special Rules: Elven Reflexes, Ithilmar Weapons, Lileath's Blessing, Lore of Saphery, Valour of Ages

Noble [204 pts]
Lance, Light armour, Griffon, Pure of Heart
Special Rules: Ithilmar Weapons, Strike First, Valour of Ages

Mage [110 pts]
Hand weapon, Level 2 Wizard, On foot, Pure of Heart, High Magic ( ?)
Special Rules: Elven Reflexes, Ithilmar Weapons, Lileath's Blessing, Lore of Saphery, Valour of Ages


Core:
12 Elven Archers [120 pts]
Hand weapons, Longbows, No armour
Special Rules: Close Order, Detachment, Elven Reflexes, Valour of Ages

12 Lothern Sea Guard [161 pts]
Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion), Standard bearer,
Musician

8 Silver Helms [210 pts]
Hand weapons, Lances, Hand weapons (Hooves), Heavy armour, Barding, Shields, High Helm (champion),

7 Silver Helms [168 pts]
Hand weapons, Lances, Hand weapons (Hooves), Heavy armour, Barding, Shields

5 Ellyrian Reavers [95 pts]
Hand weapons, Cavalry spears, Hand weapons (Hooves), Light armour, Shortbows, Skirmishes


Special:

3 Tiranoc Chariots [225 pts]
Cavalry spear, Longbow

7 Dragon Princes [280 pts]
Lance, Full plate armour, Barding, Drakemaster, Standard bearer, Musician

20 Phoenix Guard [341 pts]
Ceremonial Halberds, Full plate armour, Keeper of the Flame, Standard bearer, Musician


Rare:
Eagle-Claw Bolt Thrower [80 pts]
Special Rules: Elven Reflexes, Skirmishers, Valour of Ages

Eagle-Claw Bolt Thrower [80 pts]
Special Rules: Elven Reflexes, Skirmishers, Valour of Ages

Frostheart Phoenix [205 pts]
Full plate armour


I am currently thinking of taking the archers and or the Phoenix guard out and put in , shaddow worriers, and or another Seaguard Unit.

I have quite a big army, so I could replace units. Please feel free to make any suggestions that you may find useful:

1 Dragon;
2 Griffons;

Several mages on foot and horses;

Several different Princes on foot and horses;


Core:
About 80 Spearmen/ Seaguard ( various command)
50 Archers; various command)
15 Reavers (full command)
16 Silver Helms ( various command)


Special:
30 White Lions (full command)
30 Phoenix Guard ( Full Command)
3 Tiranoc Chariots;
10 Dragon Princes;
10 Shadow Worriors;

Rare:
4 Bolt throwers
1 Flamesphyre Phoenix ( but we can also use it as frostheart);

I am really looking forward to your assessments!

All the best,
Matt

[Anduil of Elithis]

I don't have enough experience in TOW yet, to comment on the overall list. But the Ogre Blade on the Archmage caught my eye. Is that for Spectral Doppelganger only?

[Matzerella]

I don't have enough experience in TOW yet, to comment on the overall list. But the Ogre Blade on the Archmage caught my eye. Is that for Spectral Doppelganger only?

Yes, primarily because of the spectral doppelgaenger. I sea this in a couple of YouTube videos and thought this would be a nice addition to give the dragon princes a bit of an extra punch.

Best,

Me

[Prince of Spires]

I'm not really sold on the 12 LSG. At that unit size, you're not benefitting from their special rules. I think they'd be better as simple archers, or alternatively, the archers being LSG and combining into 1 big unit.

For the SH, my theory is that they'd be better in a single unit. Yes, having 2 gives you more options. However, you quickly lose combat effectiveness when you start losing wounds. And having an extra rank and a higher unit strength can be golden in combat.

I am curious about the lvl2 mage, the Phoenix Guard and the Frostheart. The lvl2 mage because dispelling is a lot easier, in the sense that as long as a lvl4 is in range, then the lvl can just keep attempting to dispell whatever you do. And with +2 over the lvl2, you've got a great chance of actually getting the dispells.

PG I just haven't seen a lot of yet. They were awesome in 8th edition. Now I'm not sure. They're still pretty tanky for elven infantry, and with fight in extra rank dish out a lot of attacks. Let us know how they perform.

As for the Frostheart, he's less of an auto-include than he was in 8th edition. He's a bit a middle of the road monster. Still mobile and tough, but can also get beaten if he runs into stronger stuff. And he definitely doesn't want to take on units by himself I think. Probably great in combination with either the griffon or dragon though.

[Matzerella]

I'm not really sold on the 12 LSG. At that unit size, you're not benefitting from their special rules. I think they'd be better as simple archers, or alternatively, the archers being LSG and combining into 1 big unit.

For the SH, my theory is that they'd be better in a single unit. Yes, having 2 gives you more options. However, you quickly lose combat effectiveness when you start losing wounds. And having an extra rank and a higher unit strength can be golden in combat.

I am curious about the lvl2 mage, the Phoenix Guard and the Frostheart. The lvl2 mage because dispelling is a lot easier, in the sense that as long as a lvl4 is in range, then the lvl can just keep attempting to dispell whatever you do. And with +2 over the lvl2, you've got a great chance of actually getting the dispells.

PG I just haven't seen a lot of yet. They were awesome in 8th edition. Now I'm not sure. They're still pretty tanky for elven infantry, and with fight in extra rank dish out a lot of attacks. Let us know how they perform.

As for the Frostheart, he's less of an auto-include than he was in 8th edition. He's a bit a middle of the road monster. Still mobile and tough, but can also get beaten if he runs into stronger stuff. And he definitely doesn't want to take on units by himself I think. Probably great in combination with either the griffon or dragon though.

Thanks for your feedback!

I agree with your assessment in regard to the LSG. I think I will increase their unit size and will get rid of the archers. I think they would be more valuable compared to Archers as they are also a solid anvil unit, that could hold the line. What's sweet about the archers on the other hand is armour bane (1).

I also thought about combining the silver helms, as I would save costs for the command. The reason, why I am a bit hesitant about this is, that they will be difficult to manoeuvre with a two rank of 8 horses wide (30X60mm). But I think I will try it out.

I am really not so sure about the PG. Yes, they have a better armour safe compared to 8th edition, but have also lost big time when it comes to ward safe. The idea of having them on the field was more or less to protect together with the LSG the Bolt Throwers (and the Archers that are no more). Instead of them, I could also field another Unit of LSG.
In regard to the Frostheart, I am completely with you. In general my idea of the game was, that the Monsters ( Dragon, Frosheart and Griffon) will support the Cav units (particularly that Archmage on steroids and his dragon princes). Another advantage of the support role of them would be, that they then cause fear as any combination of Cav+Monster will quite likely outnumber the targeted unit.

I find it very helpful to discuss this with other HE players as I learn alot from your approaches to the game.

Thanks!

[Prince of Spires]

I wouldn't swap the PG for LSG. The PG are better in almost every way, even if they're 4 points more expensive. Better armour save, 6+ ward save (and 5+ against flaming), better WS and I, Veteran, S4 AP1 AB1 magical attacks. They even cause fear. The LSG will not kill anything important in combat. They're S3 models. They're support. With PG this is different, they can at least their own against many medium power units. If you swap them to LSG I think your list loses strength.

LSG themselves are an interesting unit. Their rules make them more viable than in 8th edition. However, I'm still curious if the spear / bow combination is worth it. If you're using the bows, you are acting very different than if you're using the spears. And is the investment then really worth it compared to archers who, as you mention, have better bows with longer range and AB1.

As for the SH, keep in mind that you don't have to go 8 wide. You can just go 7 wide and have them be 7,7,1 or 6,6,3 or anything else. You can even change this during the game if so needed or when deploying if a different formation helps against some opponent.