ET Archaon [SPOILERS!!!]

[Aicanor]

@ RE.Lee, I agree, at least something sounds like a story.

Some more info from the novel (again, thanks to people at Warseer). This will probably differ from ET book.

How does Tyrion react to his brother's idiotic demise?

It just says it's "a terrible burden to bear and one he was determined to avenge". Tyrion then kills Mannfred (who killed Gelt). Later on, he stands hand in hand with Alarielle and are then swallowed by the rift.

...

Malekith, Tyrion, Alarielle

Just an act of kindness of his part. He has been becoming more noble as this storyline advances. By the time we get to the final encounter he is a new Elf. That act was utterly selfless, symbolising the Witch King's transformation into an effective Eternity King. I think it surprised everyone. Sigmar even tries to pull him out from below the rocks when Archaon intervenes.

The White Dwarf saves Malekith earlier and its like they're still the best mates they were from millennia ago.

Malekith's death is unconfirmed. Tyrion and Alarielle spend a night together off screen. Presumably bumping uglies. Or, since they're Elves, bumping pretties.

...

After Malektih's legs are crushed: "Malevolent laughter echoed about Malekith ... then the laughter faded and only the darkness remained"

---

Imrik

Leads the first elf army to clash with the third host of khorne led by Ka'bandha on the border of Athel Loren

He charges the largest greater demon he can see (Ka'Bandha himself i guess),but on the impact the star lance simply shatters without doing anything.Then the bloodthirster backhands him to the ground.

Then,while he's in pain on the ground,the demon tells him that he should be killed on the spot but since a)he's not one of those he's hunting b)his soul is already claimed by Slaanesh and c)he actually managed to strike a blow,he'll let him go for the moment.

The army gets destroyed

Not sure if he's seen after that.

Eldyra

Vlad tries to convice her to embrace Vampirism as a gift,since he feels a sort of paternal love for all the scions of the von Cartsein bloodline...Even when he thinks turning her was an error made by Mannfred.A masterfully made error,since he turned to undeath a thing that would know nothing of it normally but still..
When he doesn't manage to do so,he take her to her cousing (Tyrion),thinking that maybe he can do that.
Tyrion takes Eldyra a few paces away from Vlad and they start talking,while Vlad is distracted by Karl Franz.
Then,Tyrion takes Sunfang and beheads Eldyra.Vlad tries to stop him but is stopped in turn by KF.
Enraged,he ask the elf why he did that.The answer,from a pained Tyrion,is simply that she asked him to.

This obviously contradicts what we already knew was the destiny of Eldyra as told in ET:K


Why is Eldyra in the book? Wasn't she turned into a goddess?
/Fresh off Twitter from Josh Reynolds/

Eldyra's presence in The Lord of the End Times is what we, in the biz, like to call a '***** up.' Mostly on my part, I think.
See, what happened was, I included her in the book because I thought her final fate hadn't been covered by anyone else, and I thought it wasn't exactly fair to turn her into a vampire in the first book and then never mention her again. Too, the fifth ET book was pretty light on female characters. So, I put her in, and decided to give her and Tyrion a last moment for some (probably unnecessary) pathos. Just to twist the knife a bit before the end.
What I didn't *know* at the time, was that she'd been turned into a goddess in ET: Khaine. I didn't find that out until after this book was already at the printers. By the time I learned about it, it was too late to hack those bits out.
Frankly, it was my fault for not triple-checking. Just like leaving out Alith Anar and Skarsnik. It's filed under 'Things I Could Have Done Better If I'd Had The Time'.
That said, you can always make the case that she's not really Eldyra, but rather what's left of Eldyra after Lileath snatches her soul and deposits it in the Haven. An undead husk of the last princess of Tiranoc, desperately seeking absolution from the one person she trusts to give it to her.

----

Chaos

Dechala marches with Sigvald's army.She then fights Tyrion inside Middenheim,and takes a Sunfang to the breast

-Mordrek fights Valten.At the end the chaos gods seem to be distracted by something,or lose interest in his fight since the fate of Valten is elsewhere,so when the killing blow from Ghal maraz comes,the count's armor falls to the ground,empty

-Valnir the reaper has a fight with Wulfrik the wanderer.Wulfrik wins (making extra sure that when he chops away Valnir's head,he does that for real).Then,he duels Valten (yep,recurring thing) and he's killed

-Azazel fights Sigmar while he's trying to get Ghal Maraz back,taunting him about their shared past.Then Sigmar gets his full power back and things don't go well fo rthe prince of plasure

-Arbaal the undefeated fight Caradryan and it's the latest victim of "off with his head".Still,he manages to wound the flame-powered incarnate.The phoenix also kills the giant fleshound

-van Horstmaan...The book just says that "some of the greatest of the world have died,like Zacharia the everliving,while other like Van Horstmann have been consumed by the tides of madness and war"

-Hellbrass is still taking his time in Kislev (i suppose that's a reference to him showing up in the G&F book)

A few name mentioned in passing add to that the fact that Valten also slays Surtha Lenk (a SoC character),Engra Deathsword (seems he was really alive after all) and a few other champions that i can't place anywhere (probably minor characters from newer editions of the WoC books) while searching for Archaon.

[Shannar, Sealord]

Eldyra's presence in The Lord of the End Times is what we, in the biz, like to call a '***** up.' Mostly on my part, I think.
See, what happened was, I included her in the book because I thought her final fate hadn't been covered by anyone else, and I thought it wasn't exactly fair to turn her into a vampire in the first book and then never mention her again. Too, the fifth ET book was pretty light on female characters. So, I put her in, and decided to give her and Tyrion a last moment for some (probably unnecessary) pathos. Just to twist the knife a bit before the end.
What I didn't *know* at the time, was that she'd been turned into a goddess in ET: Khaine. I didn't find that out until after this book was already at the printers. By the time I learned about it, it was too late to hack those bits out.

This confirms everything I suspected about the current GW fluff writing process.



I probably managed to delete part of your quote without wanting to (then copied that quote again, not sure how accurately). I should have gone to sleep long ago. I am very sorry for that, it has nothing to do with what you wrote.

And by the way, it is a cycle. It already happened with dead-and-alive Kouran.

[Count]

What about Alith Anar? Did he oneshoted something?

[Aicanor]

What about Alith Anar? Did he oneshoted something?

An omission by the author of the novel. He might be in official ET book though.

[Count]

What about Alith Anar? Did he oneshoted something?

An omission by the author of the novel. He might be in official ET book though.

It would be awesome!

[LordAnubis]

A small spoiler, I suppose, but Egrimm van Horstmann dies in an attempt to bind the Wind of Fire to himself. Despite binding a number of souls to himself, it goes about as well as you'd expect and the Magister is burnt to a crisp.

And Alith Anar is definitely mentioned during the storyline in Loren. I don't remember all the details, but he gets to use his experience as a guerrilla warrior against the hordes of Chaos.

Obviously, that means I have the book - if anyone has questions about what's in the final volume of the End Times, I can do my best to answer. It's an appropriately hefty tome, that's for sure.

[Shannar, Sealord]

Eldyra's presence in The Lord of the End Times is what we, in the biz, like to call a '***** up.' Mostly on my part, I think.
See, what happened was, I included her in the book because I thought her final fate hadn't been covered by anyone else, and I thought it wasn't exactly fair to turn her into a vampire in the first book and then never mention her again. Too, the fifth ET book was pretty light on female characters. So, I put her in, and decided to give her and Tyrion a last moment for some (probably unnecessary) pathos. Just to twist the knife a bit before the end.
What I didn't *know* at the time, was that she'd been turned into a goddess in ET: Khaine. I didn't find that out until after this book was already at the printers. By the time I learned about it, it was too late to hack those bits out.

This confirms everything I suspected about the current GW fluff writing process.



I probably managed to delete part of your quote without wanting to (then copied that quote again, not sure how accurately). I should have gone to sleep long ago. I am very sorry for that, it has nothing to do with what you wrote.

And by the way, it is a cycle. It already happened with dead-and-alive Kouran.

Haha no problem. They just seem to be cranking it out to fast. They are more of a poorly written story company than a game company. And to get it done faster they split it between to many writers, and the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.

[nicco321]

All gone.
All is gone.

But I was right about tyrion not being truly dead, there is still the one guy in the void trying to save the world thing that keeps getting mentioned. Maybe we will get it all back in 9th. Probably not, but we can hope.

I have no clue what to do now.

[Aicanor]

I have no clue what to do now.

Wait. I decided to round up my collection of models I like. Not planning to buy anything new unless I like it a lot. New stuff is much too expensive.

@ Shannar, OK then. Yes, the coordination seems to be lacking. And if they have forgotten someone altogether, it doesn't matter as they die by default.

[Lord Anathir]

Shamelessly stolen from the warhammer forum:

Re Dwarfs:

As the White Dwarf spoke, Hammerson thought he could see them. The ghosts of his ancestors moved through the ranks of the living to fill the gaps in the shield-wall. And not just the dead of storied centuries, but those more recent. He saw Thorek Ironbrow, and Ungrim Ironfist. He saw Thorgrim, the Grudgebearer himself, and others besides. Faces and names from history and recent days. It was as if the entirety of their people had come to witness this final act of defiance.

He saw Grombrindal standing upon a broad shield, supported on the shoulders of a one-eyed Slayer and a tankard-carrying ranger. The good eye of the Slayer met his own, and Hammerson felt his growing sadness washed away in a moment of anger. Anger that it had come to this, that all the great works of his people were now as nothing. The fate of the world would be decided elsewhere, by the hands of humans and elves.

For the dwarfs, there was only this. The whole of their history, brought to this point. Hammerson met Grombrindal’s gaze, and the White Dwarf nodded slowly. If it must be done, let it be done well, Hammerson thought. Whether they were dead or alive, that was the only way dwarfs knew how to do anything.

and Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"

[Sackree]

Shamelessly stolen from the warhammer forum:

Re Dwarfs:

As the White Dwarf spoke, Hammerson thought he could see them. The ghosts of his ancestors moved through the ranks of the living to fill the gaps in the shield-wall. And not just the dead of storied centuries, but those more recent. He saw Thorek Ironbrow, and Ungrim Ironfist. He saw Thorgrim, the Grudgebearer himself, and others besides. Faces and names from history and recent days. It was as if the entirety of their people had come to witness this final act of defiance.

He saw Grombrindal standing upon a broad shield, supported on the shoulders of a one-eyed Slayer and a tankard-carrying ranger. The good eye of the Slayer met his own, and Hammerson felt his growing sadness washed away in a moment of anger. Anger that it had come to this, that all the great works of his people were now as nothing. The fate of the world would be decided elsewhere, by the hands of humans and elves.

For the dwarfs, there was only this. The whole of their history, brought to this point. Hammerson met Grombrindal’s gaze, and the White Dwarf nodded slowly. If it must be done, let it be done well, Hammerson thought. Whether they were dead or alive, that was the only way dwarfs knew how to do anything.

and Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"

I just spat out my drink. Brilliant

[AJ21st]

The author must be kidding about Eldyra thing. Even I, who only read sections that concern Elves in the End Times story, catches the story about Eldyra in ET: Khaine.

I read in the blurred spoiler that there is a mention of Nippon. I'm eager about this.

[Francis]

The Eldyra part can safely be ignored, Josh made a mistake and he has admitted it. On Nippon and the East.

Grimgor wipes out the Chaos Dwarfs, kills Greasus Goldtooth with his own mace, breaks the back of Morglum Necksnapper, destroys the hordes of Hobgobla Khan, crushes the Great Bastion of Cathay, and finally burns the Dragon Fleets of Nippon. In Grimgor's own words "da East iz green".

[draxynnic]

I have no clue what to do now.

Wait. I decided to round up my collection of models I like. Not planning to buy anything new unless I like it a lot. New stuff is much too expensive.

@ Shannar, OK then. Yes, the coordination seems to be lacking. And if they have forgotten someone altogether, it doesn't matter as they die by default.

That's pretty much my thought. Pick up the models I like but don't have yet, so I've got them if the disappear.

After that... meh.

[Eirik]

So wait, what is the Haven?

[FVC]

So wait, what is the Haven?

The idea is that Lileath created some other realm so that elves might be able to live on there, and sent Araloth (pregnant with her daughter, because someone at GW has very strange ideas about gods), some other elves, and maybe the spirits of some dead Bretonnians (depends on what you believe about Lileath and the Lady) there to colonise it.

In the final book, Lileath is attacked by Be'lakor and saved by Duke Jerrod, but during the fight Be'lakor snatches the knowledge of the haven from Lileath's mind. Shortly afterwards Lileath claims to have lost any connection to the haven. She cannot sense it or feel the lives of the elves she sent there. This causes Lileath to despair.

So, basically an extradimensional haven for some elves to ride out the End Times, hidden away from Chaos, but possibly discovered at the last minute.

ET:A says: Even as Be'lakor had confessed Archaon's plan, [Lileath] had felt the Haven's presence slip from her mind. For a time, she had clung to the hope that it had merely been her fatigue that had hidden it from her thoughts, but each passing moment had proved that hope a delusion. The Haven was gone, snuffed out like a guttering candle by the all-pervasive dark of Chaos. (p. 154)

Lord of the End Times says:
[Teclis] felt sick. ‘It was all for nothing then.’
‘Not at first,’ Lileath said. She spoke hurriedly, her words clipped and forceful. ‘By the sacrifices you made, I wrought a great working – a Haven. A place of safety that would have seen your people – our people – through the coming storm.’ She smiled sadly. ‘But… I cannot feel it any more.’
‘What happened to it?’
She turned away. ‘I do not know. Maybe it still exists. Maybe the Dark Gods found it, and have already consumed it and the untold souls within, including my brave Araloth and… our child. My daughter.’ Her voice cracked. ‘I cannot feel my daughter, Teclis.’
Teclis stood helplessly as she began to weep. Then, without a word, he turned and walked away.

[Red Geist]

I think the daughter that Lileath and Araloth had together is the next planet 9th edition will take place on. It can be interpreted as such in my opinion. Araloth rules as the head of the new elven pantheon, the Slann return as the new "Old Ones" and bring some lizardment with them, and the cycle begins again with elves, lizards, and of course primeval man, which develops into a new version of the Empire.

[Eirik]

Ah, that makes sense. So basically it's a little 9e world and will probably have a little bit of everyone in it to rebuild the factions. I'm sure the skaven slipped in at some point, wouldn't be surprised if lizardmen showed up on a spaceship, and since Chaos knows about it they'll probably show up eventually.

[Red Geist]

Ah, that makes sense. So basically it's a little 9e world and will probably have a little bit of everyone in it to rebuild the factions. I'm sure the skaven slipped in at some point, wouldn't be surprised if lizardmen showed up on a spaceship, and since Chaos knows about it they'll probably show up eventually.

Lileath mentions that cycles repeat. The world may change, but similar players do the same things to bring about the birth and destruction of the world. Kinda eastern when you think about it, for a UK based game, at least that's my takeaway. So yes this is just one gigantic and somewhat overboard reboot. No factions are going away, but the world will not look the same from a map perspective. Of course none of this is certain, I just feel GW would be stupid to rip great swathes of product from their shelves and discontinue entire factions in the coming months.

[FVC]

Ah, that makes sense. So basically it's a little 9e world and will probably have a little bit of everyone in it to rebuild the factions. I'm sure the skaven slipped in at some point, wouldn't be surprised if lizardmen showed up on a spaceship, and since Chaos knows about it they'll probably show up eventually.

Well, everyone else has other plans. You know the lizardmen flew away in their city-spaceships. The skaven, according to WD, had a plan to teleport Skavenblight somewhere else. Lord of the End Times suggests that Gilles le Breton and the last Bretonnians, along with Abhorash and the last Blood Dragons, are defending a monastery that will survive even the End Times. (Bretonnia: the last human faction standing! Take that, Empire!) There's probably-Sigmar in the void, ready to create another world.

From there you can derive a lot of the armies again. Orcs and goblins can make it by spores hitching a ride with anyone else. Undead can just be invented again. Chaos can always corrupt more people. The ogres are the only ones who have no way to survive.

So... we can get bubblehammer from here. Or we might just shove everyone on to a single new planet. Depends on your preference.

[Giladis]

Don't forget the halflings

[CaledorRises]

End Times: Archaon was actually a good read, though it had some really annoying lacks. It is basically the story of the Incarnates + Mannfred and Vlad, with little to nothing covering anything else. The Skaven are pretty much ignored, and Skreech Verminking and Thanquol don't even get name dropped. In a huge screw you to the Lizardmen, Averheim holds out for months against endless Skaven, but what are you going to do.

Dropped plot points that may be covered in novel, I don't know:
Imrik appears in the army list at Middenheim, but apparently dies off screen with no mention. This is weird considering how important he was supposed to be in Khaine with the Star Lance and all.

Aliathra's curse is never brought up.

Alith Anar is irrelevant, doing nothing of significance.

You don't find out what happens to Isabella at the end. Vlad puts his ring on her finger to bring her back after he kills her, but she is not impaled on the spike with Vlad at the end, so we don't know what happened.

Thanquol and Skreech Verminking are never mentioned.

Important interesting things:
Lileath's Haven is destroyed according to her, after it is found by the Chaos Gods.

Edgar van Horstmann is killed trying to harness the Wind of Fire.

Ungrim dies off screen to Archaon, presumably.

Karl Franz actually died to the Glottkin, Sigmar just took over his body.

Vilitch the Curseling is beaten, and Tzeentch gives power to his brother so that the weird shoulder thing no longer has any thought. It got switched.

Skarr Bloodwrath is utterly irrelevant, dying with ease three times in the story.



It could actually make sense now why they didn't give new models to End Times: Khaine. All those characters died, and will never be seen again. However, the Verminlords and Bloodthirsters can just pop out of Chaos again, Glottkin could come back as they are trapped in Nurgle's realm, and Nagash always finds a way to come back, so maybe they didn't release any new models because they knew the outrage would be huge if people bought a big model and then it became unusable?

[Prince of Spires]

It could actually make sense now why they didn't give new models to End Times: Khaine. All those characters died, and will never be seen again. However, the Verminlords and Bloodthirsters can just pop out of Chaos again, Glottkin could come back as they are trapped in Nurgle's realm, and Nagash always finds a way to come back, so maybe they didn't release any new models because they knew the outrage would be huge if people bought a big model and then it became unusable?

Unless the future of WH is chaos fighting chaos fighting chaos and some undead somewhere there will always be room for models of other races. While it could explain why there were no new special characters for any of the good races, it doesn't explain why there were no models at all for them.

After all, you can still use drake riders in a post ET setting, or some form of humans or some weird greenskin contraption (ok, not good guys, but you get the point). If you look through the Khaine rumour topic, you could probably find a dozen or so unit suggestions which easily fit in a post ET setting. I can think of a handful more without trying too hard. Not all models are special characters.

Which then means that the only reason there are no new models for the good guys is simply because GW didn't want to make any at this point.

Rod

[Suriel]

Finished rougly 60% of Archaon novel. One word comes to mind. TERMINUS this TERMINUS that. Was the author missing 1000 words to fullfil contract?
Still the ever present deus ex machina. This time it's given name, Be'lakor.
The plot, ehh. It sums up to, Archaon farted in enemie's general direction and 4 marauder warbands were defeated.

[Findolfin]

Well... I am almost done with the book and it feels worst than the red wedding...
Judging by the lack of comments these last 2 weeks, I must not be alone to have no words to express what I want to say in a beautiful manner...

[Shannar, Sealord]

Yep, it seems the excitement has worn off for a large portion of the warhammer fan base. Really makes me wonder what they've got coming, and if alienating such a sizable portion of their base to get there was worth it. Only time will tell.

[Makiwara]

End Times: Loec; the Last Laugh.

It'll all be one giant joke projected into Malekith's mind and the status quo will be returned and all the End Times models and rules invalidated.

The final page will be just a giant elf trolled smiley.

[Francis]

End Times: Loec; the Last Laugh.

It'll all be one giant joke projected into Malekith's mind and the status quo will be returned and all the End Times models and rules invalidated.

The final page will be just a giant elf trolled smiley.

If only this was true. I haven't finished the Archaon book and I don't think I will, but I did read the novel and the last Slayer book. Tbh both of these novels were written really well, and it is clear that the authors did the very best they could with a poor starting point, but the whole arc is just sad and makes little sence.

[Giladis]

I have read the background books as they came and am currently reading the novels (just started Khaine) which I am enjoying.

I sure hope GW keeps the world even though it ended the story.

[Prince of Spires]

I haven't started Archaon yet (it's sitting on a shelf, there is only so much GW literature I can read at a time). But I think the problem is in part, where do you go from the world ending? It's nice and all that they wanted to wrap everything up in a neat package. But you can't write fan-fiction or play a battle in a world that is no longer there.

Rod