Warden of Saphery

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Warden of Saphery

#1 Post by WhiteSword »

Can I wear magical armor with a wizard?
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Re: Warden of Saphery

#2 Post by Halinn »

You can wear it, but it's unclear if you're allowed to buy any.
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Re: Warden of Saphery

#3 Post by Prince of Spires »

Only true answer is that we don't know. We've had a 2 page discussion on it here: viewtopic.php?p=955086#p955086

Either you read "may wear armour without penalty" as granting you the option to wear armour and do so without penalty, or you read it as only allowing you to cast spells if you would wear armour, which you can't.

Pick a side and discuss it with your opponent before the game.
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Re: Warden of Saphery

#4 Post by Bolt Thrower »

And don’t forget to submit to the official FAQ.
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Re: Warden of Saphery

#5 Post by Csjarrat »

WhiteSword wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:11 pm Can I wear magical armor with a wizard?
Dragon mages definitely can, blood of caledor mages definitely can. The others definitely can't or are ambiguous and will need discussion with opponent in lieu of an official faq
an interesting variation on my usual playstyle, which is 'charge forward, forward for the love of khaine, we can fight better than any of them and they can't shoot into melee why is our armor so thin ohgodcannons'
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Re: Warden of Saphery

#6 Post by Schwenson »

In my opinion it would be very weird to give the option to buy an honour that allows wearing armor without penalty if that makes the wizard unable to cast spells, that's why I'm reading the rule as you can wear armor and cast spells as a "warden of saphery" mage.
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Re: Warden of Saphery

#7 Post by Morgen »

Can you wear magical armor with a wizard? No, probably not. I don't even know how that would work.

Your wizard might be able to wear the magical armor though! Well let's see what the rules say! :D
Warden of Saphery wrote: When Ulthuan marches to war, the Swordmasters of Hoeth are led by the Wardens of Saphery, exemplars of the martial arts who have studied warfare and personal combat for decades.
A character with the Warden of Saphery Elven Honour:
  • Cannot be mounted.
  • May be equipped with a sword of Hoeth for no additional points. If so, they may not take any additional, non-magical weapons.
  • Gains the Deflect Shots, Ithilmar Armour and Killing Blow special rules.
Ithilmar Armour wrote: Ithilmar is a wondrous and lightweight metal found only in Vaul's Anvil, the largest volcano in Ulthuan. A warrior wearing a gleaming suit of Ithilmar armour enjoys great protection and freedom of movement, enabling them to traverse the most hostile of terrain with ease.
A model with this special rule may re-roll any rolls of 1 when making Dangerous Terrain
tests. In addition, a Wizard with this special rule may wear armour without penalty.
Big Blue Book, Page 221 wrote: Wizards & Armour
Wizards cannot wear armour. Should a Wizard ever do so, they would be unable to make any Casting or Dispel rolls. This penalty applies to all armour and shields, magical or otherwise, but does not include barding (which is worn not by the Wizard, but by their mount).
So yes, a high elf mage, who for some reason has taken this honor clearly intended for our nobles and princes so they thematically fit in with and can join units of swordmasters, can absolutely WEAR armor. Now I don't know where you're going to get said magical armor but if you find some in a narrative campaign, good job you can absolutely have your wizard put it on and still cast spells.

After all Warden of Saphery does not give them any ability to actually purchase armor, shields or barding. Why do I bring that up?
Big Blue Book, Page 221 wrote: Unusual Armour
In addition to the armour types listed here, many armies have access to unique materials or spell craft which can enhance their armour still further. This is usually represented by an army special rule which represents these types of armour.
So we can see that Ithilmar armour is not actually armour itself, but an armour enhancement by the rules and by it's own text. Why is that important?
Big Blue Book, Page 340 wrote: Magic Armour
Only a model that is equipped with (or that has the option to be equipped with) armour, a shield or barding may purchase a magical equivalent. A model can only wear a single suit of armour and can only carry one shield, and a mount can only wear a single suit of barding. Therefore, magic armour replaces any mundane equivalent the model is, or may be, equipped with.

Magic armour follows the same rules as its mundane equivalent (if given). For example, a suit of magical heavy armour will grant its wearer an armour value of 5+.
High Elf Mages aren't equipped with armor (light, heavy, full plate) or shields, nor do they have the option to purchase any of those things. Warden of Saphery does not give them any armor/shields nor does it grant the ability to purchase armor, it just gives them a special rule that makes their armor better. Blood of Caledor does, but not Warden of Saphery.

So by the rules as written they cannot purchase magical armor. They're capable of wearing it, but not buying it. They can buy magical helmets though. Helms are just fine. Dragon Helm ahoy.

Too bad High Elves don't have access to something like the Armour of Tarnus from the Empire of Man.
Forces of Fantasy, Page 75 wrote: Armour of Tarnus
The Armour of Tarnus is a suit of light armour which may be purchased and worn by an Imperial Wizard, even if they do not have the option to be equipped with armour, a shield or barding, without penalty. In addition, its wearer has a 5+ Ward save against any wounds suffered.

Spectral Doppelganger is a trap anyway and all these double killing blow wizards aren't going to get their points back in my opinion, so you're better off.
Last edited by Morgen on Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Warden of Saphery

#8 Post by NightHawk45 »

I think that Ithilmar Armour is worded that way for the Loremaster Elven Honor. That way you give your prince the ability to be a wizard AND wear armor.
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Re: Warden of Saphery

#9 Post by Morgen »

A loremaster can both wear armour and purchase armour too! Fun fact.
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Re: Warden of Saphery

#10 Post by Morgen »

Hey look I was right.

High Elf Realms
Q: Can a Wizard with the Warden of Saphery Elven Honour
purchase magic armour?
A: No
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Re: Warden of Saphery

#11 Post by Minion X »

Mages/archmages without any Honour that restricts their access to mounts can purchase magic armour since they have access to the Barded Elven Steed (which has barding). If mounted on the Barded Elven Steed they can even cast spells while wearing their magic armour since they gain the Ithilmar Barding Special rule.
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Re: Warden of Saphery

#12 Post by Morgen »

Yes, you can buy any equivalent magical barding you like! I don't know what magical barding exists but you're welcome to purchase it. :D
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