3K Elves Vs Ogres Need Opinions

[CrystalRainbow]

OK I'm quite limited in the stuff I own and I have only played Ogres once that was when I had barely started the game. So this is my 3K list so far (I don't own much special, in fact I only have 5 White Lions so can't even use them so any chance I have in the match will be based more on tactics due to limited models)

Lords
Archmage - Lv 4 Lore of Death
Moranion's Wayshard
270

Loremaster of Hoeth
Power Stone
Armour of Caledor
Khaine's Ring of Fury
325

Heroes
Mage - Lv2 Lore of Heavens
Dispel Scroll
145

Noble BSB
Halberd
Reaver Bow
Potion of Strength
Heavy armour
146

Core
Lothern Sea Guard x 50 (10wide 5deep)
Shields fc
630

Ellyrian Reavers x 5
Bows
85

Ellyrian Reavers x 5
Bows
85

Silver Helms x 5
Shields
Champion
125

Archers x 30
300

Special
Swordmasters x 20
fc
290

Phoenix Guard x 10
champion+standard
170

Dragon Princes x 5
champion+standard
165

Rare
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
70

Great Eagle
50

Sisters of Avelorn x 10
140

Total 2996

Any advice would be appreciated because I know very little about Ogre Kingdoms. But so far my tactics are to use the Loremaster to hopefully assassinate the Stonehorn/Thudertusk I expect (I just remember a massive monster thingy, it has been over a year since I fought Ogres) with the death sig, hopefully force him to waste his dispel scroll early and the Loremaster and heavens mage are going to then provide supportive spells for the Sea guard, DP, PG and swordmasters where necessary. (who and how they support will vary with combat conditions) Then hopefully I can get Purple Sun on my Archmage and get her and the archers to arrive either to the flank or rear of his force, to force a division in his lines and potentially nuke him, if not i can still cause decent damage with the help of soulblight, doom and darkness and ideally the wizard will be dangerously close so I can pick off key models with other spells. The reavers and eagle with serve as redirectors to allow me to control his movements a bit. I intend to weaken him with ranged fire and stall him where I can before engaging him. The silver helms will serve the job of damaging and hopefully stalling one of his units, phoenix guard are the same really. I will attempt to keep a relatively closed formation with my BSB near the back in the Sisters unit and when a nasty gets within 15inches I will use the pot of strength and reaver bow for a potentially devastating attack.

Of course with my limited models it is difficult to get a good list, but any help would be appreciated.

[asuitandty]

You don't have an answer for mournfang or an ironblaster.

[Modessa]

I'm interested in the idea of bringing in the Death Archmage with the 30 Archers via the Wayshard. It might put you in a good position for some snipes, which is fun. That said, I personally would never ever field a Lord level caster without bringing the Book of Hoeth. It's simply that good. If you still want to try your Death sniping from reserve shenanigans, consider putting the Power Stone on the Archmage, and find the points for the Book of Hoeth on the Loremaster.

As asuitandty said, I'm not sure what you'll do to counter Mournfang Cavalry. I think the Ironblaster(s) may be fixable with the reserve marching Archers and Archmage, but Mournfangs? Not so sure. Try to magic missile it/them with your Loremaster?

If you could find the points for the Star Lance on the Dragon Prince Champion, that might come in handy. Maybe by losing the champion on the Silver Helms and... I don't know... maybe lose the Silver Helms altogether?

What other models, if any do you have available?

Good luck in any case

[CrystalRainbow]

I have a Lion Chariot, Tiranoc Chariot, IOB Mage and Two Griffons, a dragon mage/prince, prince on horse, maybe 6 more spears/sea guard, I'm not using. I'm trying not to put too much into my characters and as I said I played once against Ogres and have never watched a game involving Ogres so I barely even know what the mournfang cavalry are and I have no idea what an Iron blaster is. This is why I really need advice. As for the power stone I think its better on the Loremaster because I wanna FORCE him to waste his dispel scroll before my archmage arrives and the threat of losing his low leadership monsters and MC before they can do anything, with the power stone adding in more pressure on that front and every kill is potentially giving me back dice from the death spells (which are ideal to snipe his massive monsters and MC), which could potentially lead to a more torturous phase than it should be, especially if he fails to dispel with dice then the other spells (iceshard blizzard, wyssan's wildform, urannon's thunderbolt, harmonic convergence, etc pretty much any spells I get from heavens plus a few sigs) will have a free range to make a difficult next turn for him. I don't think the book is too important because I don't think Ogres rely much on level 4s or anything.

[Overg]

I am a semi regular ogre player so I will try to give a few inputs here

Watch out for the poison sniping man eaters!.
Both your mages and BSB are sitting ducks without wardsaves.

Like others wrote you need an answer for mournfangs (other than redirect), and something to kill the ironblasters (Who are more than able to kill any of your light units in CC as well).

I like the combined sisters+archer horde+seaguard as this will remove his regen save from trollguts on the gut star, and should (in theory) make quite a dent in the gut star every turn - but remember that the gutstar comes at you 12" each turn. I do not like the wayshard though. As this gives the ogre player atleast 1 turn (possibly 2) before your lvl 4 is there to dispel things and more importantly - there to snipe his nasties.

A lazy example of a 3k ish list you could face would be.

SM - lvl 4 - stuff --> gut star
BSB - Runemaw banner --> gut star
Firebelly --> gut star

15 Ironguts - FC - stand of dis.
Gnoblars -

4 Mournfangs - FC - Dragonhide
some cats
Sniping man eater unit.
Some Leadbelchers.

Stonehorn
2 x ironblaster

Worst case: The gnoblars and cats with play catch with your redirectors and everything else comes at you with 12"+ every turn, while the 2 ironblasters removes eagles/bolt trowers and the lead/maneaters kills a light unit and a characters each turn. If the ogre player gets first turn half his army can be in combat before the mage even arrives.

[Overg]

I have a Lion Chariot, Tiranoc Chariot, IOB Mage and Two Griffons, a dragon mage/prince, prince on horse, maybe 6 more spears/sea guard, I'm not using. I'm trying not to put too much into my characters and as I said I played once against Ogres and have never watched a game involving Ogres so I barely even know what the mournfang cavalry are and I have no idea what an Iron blaster is. This is why I really need advice. As for the power stone I think its better on the Loremaster because I wanna FORCE him to waste his dispel scroll before my archmage arrives and the threat of losing his low leadership monsters and MC before they can do anything, with the power stone adding in more pressure on that front and every kill is potentially giving me back dice from the death spells (which are ideal to snipe his massive monsters and MC), which could potentially lead to a more torturous phase than it should be, especially if he fails to dispel with dice then the other spells (iceshard blizzard, wyssan's wildform, urannon's thunderbolt, harmonic convergence, etc pretty much any spells I get from heavens plus a few sigs) will have a free range to make a difficult next turn for him. I don't think the book is too important because I don't think Ogres rely much on level 4s or anything.

Mournfangs = MC - some argue the best in the game. Combined with dragonhide banner, they will eliminate basicly any unit with t3s3. Mathhammer against you seaguard horde, without character/magic influence = they will suffer ½-1 wound from stand'n'shoot+all your attacks, and kill around ½ the seaguard unit on the charge alone.

Ironblaster = ranged chariot cannon. t6 5w - Can charge with impact hits and hits like a truck, laugh at bowfire all day long - and move and shoot the cannon (s10 d6w.) with a special rule that allows to reroll the 2nd art. dice and choose the highest. Basicly GPS guided cannon from hell.

[PGP]

I think you need to take the star dragon. Take max. protection to prince. Use helms as dragon princes to get more them. If you can use griffons as frost phoenixes use them. So

Star dragon prince with at least 4+ ward
Bsb, with dragon prince gear, crown, enc. Shield, potion of strength
High Lvl 2 with steed and 4+ ward
High lvl 2 with scroll and ring
30+ spears, fc, magic banner
30 archers, fc
5 reavers
5 reavers
About 10 dragon princes, fc, magic banner
9 sm
Lion chariot
2x frost phoenix
Rbt
Eagle

[asuitandty]

Do not take any dragons unless you like losing them early.

[PGP]

maybe you are right, dragons tend to be shot. Achmage is back then.

[Earl of the Coast]

I play Ogre Kingdoms a lot and I have always massively struggled with them. In fact, I never won in 8th edition.

You need to watch the Mournfang, I've literally had them wipe out over half my army as they are high strength, high toughness and high high armor save MC that dish out a lot of pain.

However, all this has recently changed. I just played a battle (4000pts - which takes away a lot of tactical play) and I absolutely slaughtered my opponent. I almost felt bad.

Here's some tips:
- Putting an an Anointed in with the PG ups their ward save to 3+
- Everqueen in with WL gives them a 5+ ward save. Get a couple of spells off (which is easy with low casting values - I mainly just healed characters!) and you can have 3+ ward save WL. Scary!
- Beast Mage with the signature spell cast oh PG to increase toughness and strenght
- Avoid any lone character/model as his beast cannon will kill it! (I had Caradryan on Ashanti but he took a cannon ball to his face. Not cool)

Now this was a nasty list. He just couldn't do any damage whilst I pumped it out. I did feel bad but it was nice to win for once! But the beauty of our new book is its versatility as there is a lot to play around with. I won't feel fare putting together another list like that...

Happy Hunting!

[CrystalRainbow]

I'm not comfortable proxying to that extent and they sound very vicious, so I should prioritise killing them with magic?

Edit: Forgot to mention I do have caradryan, tyrion, teclis and alarielle. I don't use characters often though

[asuitandty]

Uh no, there's not a lot of magic besides shadow and death that can hurt them efficiently, and those lores are just straight up cheesy against ogres. High elves can obliterate ogres, you have all the tools, and you can choose the matchups. Just bring the right tools . Eagles for redirecting, frost phoenixes for lowering their strength (their army strength is their strength), bolt throwers or sky cutters for killing mournfang.

[PGP]

I think cavalry with chars could an answer, they can kill chariot cannons. So, tried to use the models you have:

Prince, steed, barding, da, giant blade, enc. shield, dawnstone, potion of foolhardiness
Shadow lvl 4 with book and tal. of pres.
Bsb with steed, barding, da, shield, dragon helm, sword of might, crown
High lvl 2 with scroll and obsidian trinket
Noble with da, gw/halberd, charmed shield, potion of strength, reaver bow
30+ archers with fc
30+ spears with fc and swiftness or disipline banner
2x5 reavers
6+ helms with fc
6+ dragon princes with fc and lichebone banner or banner of world dragon
2x9 swordmasters with mus
10 sisters
eagle

[daid13]

Can I point out that the anointed's ward save doesn't stack.

[Earl of the Coast]

Can I point out that the anointed's ward save doesn't stack.

daid13 is completely correct - my bad! I've re-read the rules on Ward Saves and it stares that different ward saves cannot be combined and if a model has more than one ward save to use the best. It seems that only the High Magic lore attribute can increase a ward save. My friend will be pleased!