2400pt SCGT High Elves

[kriltic]

Hey fellow High Elf players! Im hoping to take my High Elves to various tournaments this year but want to make sure I go with a fairly strong list that is able to take on most opponents well, so I hoping for fellow Elf players comments and suggestions.

Lords ... 570
Archmage ... 270
Level 4 (Life)
Silver Wand
Obvious life choice with wand to get most of the good spells. Usually ends up spending most of the PD later on in the game.

Archmage ... 300
Level 4 (Shadow)
Annulian Crystal
Second level4 tends to be hit or miss with most players but I think there is an advantage to using two. Plus Shadow does combo quite nicely with Life magic and Elves. Shadow mage usually ends up using the dice early on and then only a few here and there towards the end and the threat of Mindrazor has helped let both mages get other spells off rather well.


Heroes ... 168
Noble ... 168
Battle Standard
Great Weapon
Armour of Caledor
Guardian Phoenix


Core ... 605
40 Spear Elves ... 375
Standard
Musician

10 Archers ... 115
Musician

10 Archers ... 115
Musician


Special ... 905
30 Phoenix Guard ... 517
Standard
Musician
Banner of Sorcery
Fairly standard set up for these guys and they rarely let me down.

24 Sword Masters ... 388
Standard
Musician
Banner of Eternal Flame
I realise a lot of players feel White Lions are better but I think the extra attacks and WS more than make up for -1 str. These guys deploy 7 wide most of the time or 12 wide should I face hordes of Skaven, Marauders etc (basically squishy things). Although after seeing the Talisman of Loec discussion Im tempted to try and fit in a Bladelord with it to kill off characters.


Rare ... 150
Eagle

Eagle

Eagle

I'm not sure if three Eagles is too many as I've not had a huge amount of success with them so far (cannons keep shooting them off the board usually by turn two).


Total: 2400pts

[SpellArcher]

I like the idea of double Archmage. That said I think your choice of Lores leaves you lacking Magic Missiles for example. The list could struggle to deal with Ethereals or Skirmishers.

I'd be tempted to cut the Spears to 30 (you can buff them magically) and beef up one of the Archer units. That gives you a secure bunker for your mages.

The army could do with another combat unit IMHO.

[kriltic]

Well you're one of the first people to like the idea of double Archmages XD Sadly skirmishers are always going to be a problem and apart from magic missiles Im not entirely sure how to reliably kill them. I was thinking of maybe dropping an Eagle to upgrade a Sword Master to a Bladelord with the Talisman of Loec to kill characters and add the Talisman of Light to the Shadow Mage to help deal with Ethereals. And then either add an extra Spear Elf or upgrade a Phoenix Guard to a Keeper of the Flame. What would your opinion be on this?

The mages tend to do alright in the three units I have already (they run away to another unit when combat looms over them.) And If I have Mindrazor most people like avoiding the Spear Elves as I usually horde them instead of going for ranks, but that said a safe bunker does have its uses and is something I need to look into. As for another combat unit, I can only really get that by dropping the Eagles and taking out some of the Phoenix Guard as my Core is basically on the minimum level.

[SpellArcher]

I think a magic phase with 8/9 virtually selected spells has got something going for it. I recently faced a Daemon phase with 3 Horror Levels and a Light Loremaster and it was frightening. The sheer variety of options makes it very dangerous for the foe.

Life and Shadow are good Lores but I'm not sure they are the best together. I think there's a good case for going either Shadow and High or Life and Light. That way you get a mix of options and should have a spell available to deal with almost anything.

Amulet of Light is definately a good idea somewhere. But I think you need a decent Magic Missile too.

The problem with bunkers is that the Spears want to be in combat. The archer units are so small that a serious round of shooting/magic could take one (and accompanying Archmage) out in short order. I know some guys get by like this but I'd be very wary of facing anything with decent ranged power (especially Wood Elves).

I'd certainly consider dropping an eagle if you need points. Probably you'd have to cut one or both of the combat blocks to get a third unit (DP's maybe?). This might hurt but I just think the list isn't flexible enough as it stands.

[krysith]

I've played double AM quite a lot in 8th and most of the time I like it (usually Life/Life or High/Life, but double AM coven of light is pretty bad-ass too). One thing you need to watch out for with your current army list is dwarves. All they need to do is redirect the PG, shoot the spears and SM, and dispel Pit and you would be in trouble. Many of your spells are remains in play, and they have the spare dice to drop those spells every turn. Just something to watch for, in case you have a lot of dwarves around. Also be aware that many tournaments have scenario rules that mess with your magic phase, and this can hurt a lot when you have so much invested in it.

I agree with SA that you might do better with a few more archers and a smaller spear unit. I'd keep the eagles - if they are only getting shot down that means you have too few, not too many.

If you play Shadow/Life, you need to pull off the Enfeeblement/Dwellers combo on someone's general, just to be able to say that you did!

One great way to deal with skirmishers when you have eagles and a life mage is to cast Shield of Thorns on an eagle. That eagle then is a skirmisher killing machine. If the skirmishers are shooters, just charge from the side or rear. This tactic also works great on bunkers - throw a second eagle into the other flank to prevent a reform and its often game over. Few things in the game are as fun as killing a Teclis bunker with a pair of eagles.

[kriltic]

So far the tournaments that Im looking into are basic Battline scenarios so shouldnt be a problem in the magic department (bar bad dice rolls of course XD ). And I think dwarfs are just a bad match up for most Elves due to str5 grudge throwers :/ But you do have a point about RiP spells which while useful for drawing out enemy PD, end up a little wasted on Dwarfs or against opponents once you've killed the level 4.

My only problem with dropping the Spears down is that they are unlikely to remain steadfast or they will draw out too much magic support to keep them alive and leave my Phoenix Guard and/or Sword Masters too vulnerable to other threats. Plus who doesnt want to use 40 horded Spear Elves with Mindrazor? XD Although if I do swap the Lore used then Ill probably end up changing a few Spear Elves to Archers

Im looking at light magic and the only good things Im seeing are magic missiles for skirmishers/chaff and Pha's Protection, I think the other effects seem kinda lost on Elves. Im now stuck between Fire and Metal, if I did replace the Shadow mage, Fire gives me anti-chaff/Ethereal and I can stack both Cascading Fire-Cloak and Shield of Thorns on something to help deal the damage but then again Metal gives me another unit killer and a way to potentially deal with Ethereals. Plus Elves with a 3+ save is just funny XD Hmmm Im really stuck now... Ive no clue as to what Lore to take as Fire, Metal and Shadow all have their pros and cons so Im stuck with what to take. I think high armour saves worry me more than Skirmishers at the minute but I can see the possibility of things like Skinks, Sallies, Shades or Flamers really ruining my day.

I think Ill have a revision of this list after deciding which two Lores I want since I can alter my list to make more use from the combinations possible. So basically Im torn between Light, Metal and Fire for partnering up with Life and Im not sure which is ultimately best. Its a balance of killing chaff or making sure once I get into battle Im at the best advantage possible.

[SpellArcher]

The templates are not so bad for elf armies with smaller units. But I've always found Empire easier to fight than Dwarfs because once you get there they are not so tough.

The strength of Light magic is the redundancy. So you have two missiles, two combat boosts, two ways of protecting. But Life covers some of that already.

[Irishranger]

As someone who usually runs double Slann with lizardmen, there may well be something in double archmage although I think silver wand is better swapped for jewel of the dusk and change the lore from life to anything else. Maybe it's just me but even with lizardmen i found life to be utterly pants and we dont have temple guard with rumination slann to make an unkillable deathstar.

For special the phoenix guard seem fine but i haven't got enough experience with them to judge. For the sm however you need a very good plan to use them that big or they will be number one on the enemy's hit list. Similarly banner of Flame is a bad idea as most lists now feature a hero with a fire proof hat or equivalent who will hold the unit all game even if you mindrazor them. The best place for the banner is on a unit of 17 archers(averages 1 wound on a hydra). I recommend droping 10 sm for 5 dragon princes as your list seems very slow and with only 20 S3 shots even chaos warriors can force you to come to them. The other option is instead of the dragon princes drop an eagle and add 2 RBTs which combined with shadow, a more archer centric core and possibly high magic gives a very scary shooting phase. The second option also solves the skrimisher problem as long as you have musiscians.