So I looked around, and couldn't find a condensed tactics article on using the Lion Chariot; I have recently purchased one to help improve the speed of my LSG/SM based army. Is there a previous topic covering this, and if not, please let me know of your successes and failures while using this potentially deadly machine!
AE
Lion Chariot
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Lion Chariot
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week- George S Patton
Re: Lion Chariot
I try to use my LC's purely for support for my block troops. For example, if I take 2 LC's I'll allocate each one a unit for it to support that game, this can of course change during the course of the game. I've found they can't really take units on by themselves in the front unless its light units. 2 of them on the charge might dent a unit pretty good but supporting attacks will hurt and the T4 4+ AS doesn't hold up as well as people think.
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de kaasboer
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:17 am
Re: Lion Chariot
Lion chariots offer a extreme form of force concentration.
Imo the 2 best ways to use them are as:
1) infantry support (infantry for ranks +some kills, lions add the kills), in which case you will want to hold them back a little (between your lines)
or
2)
support of something durable; so that would be mostly DP's or Silverhelms, and maybe (flying) characters
with their t4 and 4+ save they are not as durable as the knights, so make sure to have them on the corner of the combat, so the knights take the pain, and the lions can keep on delivering the pain:)
one thing on chariots as a whole (while i think tyrranocs are better for this, as they are cheaper) is the threat the pose to your opponents units. while a chariot has to be extremely lucky (if at all possible) to actually deal enough to have a chance of breaking a ranked infantry (or heavy cav) unit, people are afraid of the maximum damage a chariot COULD do. I often use this to threaten an enemy block's line of advance (often together with knights of some sort), then next IF they advanced i can still happily reposition my chariots and wait for more support to actually deal the blow they are so afraid off, and if the hold back (because they dont like to get charged) the chariots have just bought me more more time to deal with his units in other areas of the board.
cheers,
J
Imo the 2 best ways to use them are as:
1) infantry support (infantry for ranks +some kills, lions add the kills), in which case you will want to hold them back a little (between your lines)
or
2)
support of something durable; so that would be mostly DP's or Silverhelms, and maybe (flying) characters
with their t4 and 4+ save they are not as durable as the knights, so make sure to have them on the corner of the combat, so the knights take the pain, and the lions can keep on delivering the pain:)
one thing on chariots as a whole (while i think tyrranocs are better for this, as they are cheaper) is the threat the pose to your opponents units. while a chariot has to be extremely lucky (if at all possible) to actually deal enough to have a chance of breaking a ranked infantry (or heavy cav) unit, people are afraid of the maximum damage a chariot COULD do. I often use this to threaten an enemy block's line of advance (often together with knights of some sort), then next IF they advanced i can still happily reposition my chariots and wait for more support to actually deal the blow they are so afraid off, and if the hold back (because they dont like to get charged) the chariots have just bought me more more time to deal with his units in other areas of the board.
cheers,
J
Re: Lion Chariot
If they're supporting another unit (as they should be), try to align the first unit so the chariot has to hit a corner so it can take fewer return attacks.
Re: Lion Chariot
Lion Chariots can be very useful in a number of situations and when Korhil is in one then that chariot can single handedly win against small elite units of up to 15 models.
Being Fear causing they dont require terror tests and can make low Leadership core fail fear tests .
Against warbeasts and fast cavalry use a lion chariot in conjunction with an eagle to keep them from getting to your RBT or elites/support units.First turn fly eagle behind them and move chariot forward just out of enemy charge range,combi charge next turn,You should be able to beat them in a single combat round and reform for advantageous positions for side charges next turn.
Korhil on a chariot can like I said take on small elite units ,get him to challenge,even if he's charged he has 5S6 attacks,and 4 S5 attacks and if he charges he does D6 S5 impact hits as well.If he loses combat and is killed and chariot flees,chariot has to be destroyed to give up any victory points.Korhil also benefits from an extra +1 to his Armour save for being mounted on chariot.
Supporting another unit ,like was said corner to corner does the trick,minimal attacks back against you.
Double Lion Chariot charge again works well against most things,even more effective with Korhil on one. A variation would be using 2 Lion Chariots with a Great Eagle,Charge eagle first into front of enemy,then Lion chariots on either side to minimise attacks back.
Chariots if boosted by magic can be even more devastating, Beast's Wyssans wildform making chariot T5 and all attacks +1 S comes to mind and Savage Beast of Horros on Korhil too as it gives him 7 S9 Killing blow attacks.particularly devastating if charging Cavalry and will strip even a 1+ armour save from anybody.Other spells that work really well are Light's Birona's Timewarp giving lions ASF and an extra attack each for lions and crew,Flaming Sword of Rhuin for +1 to wound with magical flaming attacks. Metal's Enchanted Blades of Aiban for +1 to hit magical Armour piercing attacks and Shadow's Okhams mindrazor for Strength 8 attacks.
Hope this helps.
Being Fear causing they dont require terror tests and can make low Leadership core fail fear tests .
Against warbeasts and fast cavalry use a lion chariot in conjunction with an eagle to keep them from getting to your RBT or elites/support units.First turn fly eagle behind them and move chariot forward just out of enemy charge range,combi charge next turn,You should be able to beat them in a single combat round and reform for advantageous positions for side charges next turn.
Korhil on a chariot can like I said take on small elite units ,get him to challenge,even if he's charged he has 5S6 attacks,and 4 S5 attacks and if he charges he does D6 S5 impact hits as well.If he loses combat and is killed and chariot flees,chariot has to be destroyed to give up any victory points.Korhil also benefits from an extra +1 to his Armour save for being mounted on chariot.
Supporting another unit ,like was said corner to corner does the trick,minimal attacks back against you.
Double Lion Chariot charge again works well against most things,even more effective with Korhil on one. A variation would be using 2 Lion Chariots with a Great Eagle,Charge eagle first into front of enemy,then Lion chariots on either side to minimise attacks back.
Chariots if boosted by magic can be even more devastating, Beast's Wyssans wildform making chariot T5 and all attacks +1 S comes to mind and Savage Beast of Horros on Korhil too as it gives him 7 S9 Killing blow attacks.particularly devastating if charging Cavalry and will strip even a 1+ armour save from anybody.Other spells that work really well are Light's Birona's Timewarp giving lions ASF and an extra attack each for lions and crew,Flaming Sword of Rhuin for +1 to wound with magical flaming attacks. Metal's Enchanted Blades of Aiban for +1 to hit magical Armour piercing attacks and Shadow's Okhams mindrazor for Strength 8 attacks.
Hope this helps.
[i]The Dark is generous, and it is patient and it always wins; but in the heart of its strength lies weakness: one lone candle is enough to hold it back.................[/i]
Re: Lion Chariot
I thought that if you kill him you get his points, just like a mount (ie dragon/griffon) if you kill the mount you get the mount points, if you kill the character you get his points. Am I wrong?KJSparkz wrote:If he loses combat and is killed and chariot flees,chariot has to be destroyed to give up any victory points.
Re: Lion Chariot
You are wrong about the monster mounts, and about the chariot. See main FAQ.Ulanth wrote:I thought that if you kill him you get his points, just like a mount (ie dragon/griffon) if you kill the mount you get the mount points, if you kill the character you get his points. Am I wrong?
Re: Lion Chariot
Wow, thanks so much for the timely response and for how many there were. I am planning on using the chariot in combination with a great eagle, like has been mentioned, first to threaten/harrass enemy war machine and magic users, then came from behind to rear charge units while a special unit like SMs or SHs charges the front. Hopefully this will cause enough wounds, when combined with the rear charge, and potential front charge, to allow me to overrun and destroy units like this repeatedly. Any thoughts or ideas on using them in that manner? I know around my area people are terrified of them, and if things work well, I am seriously considering dropping my SHs and running 3 Lion Chariots, plus 2 Eagles...
AE
AE
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week- George S Patton
Re: Lion Chariot
as has already been said repeatedly in this post both of our charriots are a good way to add a lot of (potential) damage to any combat they join and if used carefully i.e. supporting another unit and only hitting the corner they can be very durable. my favourate way of using these guys is as a supporting charge for either a griffon or dragon mounted prince as they work wonderfully well in tandem. not much of an average infantry block will survive the high number of high strength attacks and impact hits followed by the thunder stomp and possibly breath weapon of the mount can be a nice quick way to remove an iritating unit and follow through onto another unit if timed correctly
check my painting log http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33196&start=0
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Thatguyoverthere
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:35 pm
Re: Lion Chariot
I like chariots for a couple of reasons.
1) As mentioned, they are great when accompanying a ranked unit or for counter charges.
2) If counter charging, remember that charging +1, flank +1 and all of the casualties you cause can really swing a combat in your favor. Depending on who you're facing, you can stick these guys with spearmen and turn a combat.
3) Swiftstride is great for catching fleeing units.
4) As with an eagle, you can use them as a 'place holder.' With high elves, you can really use cascading combats in your favor. Nothing like seeing an opponent carefully set up a screen, with a big unit behind, in front of your white lions and a flanking unit waiting on the side for you to get stuck in. Charge the white lions into the screen, charge the chariot if you can make it into the second unit and with the ensuing cascading combat you're suddenly past his lines.
5) Charge manipulation. If you run a chariot with a block of swordmasters say, you can make charges work for you. If they want to stand and shoot they can only do that once per turn so you could charge with the chariot, get shot, then charge in with the swordmasters and leave them unmolested. If it's a unit that's just going to flee, charge with the swordmasters, make them flee, and then charge again with the chariot and hope to catch them (8+3D6 pick the highest is better than 4D6 on average).
6) They can also prevent character "make way" if you find a use for that. Charge the chariot into the character so he can't move and then charge in the flank or something. Don't know if this is as useful.
Basically, manipulate the rules with your MSU units. Chariots are small, compact and in the case of lion chariots, killy. I like them.
1) As mentioned, they are great when accompanying a ranked unit or for counter charges.
2) If counter charging, remember that charging +1, flank +1 and all of the casualties you cause can really swing a combat in your favor. Depending on who you're facing, you can stick these guys with spearmen and turn a combat.
3) Swiftstride is great for catching fleeing units.
4) As with an eagle, you can use them as a 'place holder.' With high elves, you can really use cascading combats in your favor. Nothing like seeing an opponent carefully set up a screen, with a big unit behind, in front of your white lions and a flanking unit waiting on the side for you to get stuck in. Charge the white lions into the screen, charge the chariot if you can make it into the second unit and with the ensuing cascading combat you're suddenly past his lines.
5) Charge manipulation. If you run a chariot with a block of swordmasters say, you can make charges work for you. If they want to stand and shoot they can only do that once per turn so you could charge with the chariot, get shot, then charge in with the swordmasters and leave them unmolested. If it's a unit that's just going to flee, charge with the swordmasters, make them flee, and then charge again with the chariot and hope to catch them (8+3D6 pick the highest is better than 4D6 on average).
6) They can also prevent character "make way" if you find a use for that. Charge the chariot into the character so he can't move and then charge in the flank or something. Don't know if this is as useful.
Basically, manipulate the rules with your MSU units. Chariots are small, compact and in the case of lion chariots, killy. I like them.