Alith Anar List

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SpellArcher
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Alith Anar List

#1 Post by SpellArcher »

There was some discussion involving Alith Anar in this thread:

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=88348

An idea came to me for a list and after some modifications, I emerged with this:


Alith Anar 250
Archmage, High Magic, Lvl 4, 4+ Ward, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Fury 315

BSB, 4+ Ward Armour, Halberd 147
Handmaiden, Reaver Bow, Merwyrm Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Ironcurse Icon 145

24 Archers, Musician 250
24 Archers, Musician 250
5 Reavers, Bows 85
5 Reavers, Bows 85

21 White Lions, FC, World Dragon 353

RBT 70
RBT 70
Frostheart 240
Frostheart 240

2500pts

The characters usually all deploy in the Lions, 5 x 5 formation. So at first, the enemy is faced with a wall of Ward saves and a Champion he can only put one wound on. The second and third ranks provide the S6 attacks the first rank can't. Alith gives the Lions -1 to be shot at, very useful vs RBT in particular. Both he and the Handmaiden are BS 7 Quick to Fire, very accurate even if the unit moves. The army usually sits back and shoots, sacrificing the Reavers to slow the enemy down and relying on the threat of the phoenixes to prevent outflanking. It will sometimes push though, World Dragon (here with Swiftstride) and double Frostheart can be quite nasty.

Thoughts welcome.

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Re: Alith Anar List

#2 Post by Elithmar »

In the course of my Warhammer-related musings last year I became a fan of Alith Anar, drafted my own list, and even got the model on ebay. I'd never really looked at special characters before, and while most of them are overpriced and fairly useless, Alith seems pretty good value.

Having said that, the list you've come up with is a few degrees tougher than mine and looks pretty optimised. I also had a handmaiden, but with potion of strength (not as important when you have Alith to provide high S shots, but still an attractive choice. I suppose you had to sacrifice it to make her more durable since she'd be in the main combat unit) and in a big unit of sisters to make the most of that quick to fire. I also had SMs instead of WLs, I suppose partly because WLs are already pretty resistant to BS shooting with their cloaks and so benefit less from -1 to hit, but if you have all the characters in the front rank like in your list, WLs are definitely better given the SMs' extra attacks are wasted.

So I suppose the upshot is that yours is a pretty strong list and I don't really have any suggestions - except to include a few shadow warriors so Alith doesn't feel out of place. :wink:
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Re: Alith Anar List

#3 Post by Prince of Spires »

I like the list, though it is a lot of eggs in a single basket. You compete in all phases of the game and have some options in how it plays.

It's not a very fast list. I'm guessing it will struggle against opponents who can deal with the frosties. Anything with cannons can be trouble. Once they are gone, the rest of the list runs the risk of being picked apart.

Magic might also be an issue. A single lvl4 is decent, but it's nto a strong magic phase. The BotWD is nice on the WL, but it does leave the rest of the list open to damage, and you might lose the scroll early if your opponent has a must disspell spell. though only the WL are a unit you can't lose and they should cope with most things reasonably well.

That said, not many lists will know how to deal with double frostheart easily and fast. And you do have a S7 RBT which hits on 2+ to even things out.

It should do well agianst some and bad against others I feel, making it not a complete all-comers list. Skaven with storm banner, the no-flying spell and dreaded 13th can really screw this list over for instance.

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Re: Alith Anar List

#4 Post by SpellArcher »

Elithmar wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:11 pm
I'd never really looked at special characters before, and while most of them are overpriced and fairly useless
I'm not so sure Eli. I'll give you Korhil but you see all the others.
Elithmar wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:11 pm
I suppose you had to sacrifice it to make her more durable since she'd be in the main combat unit) and in a big unit of sisters to make the most of that quick to fire.
These things are desirable but yes I felt the list needed more combat strength. Why not post your list up here, mine is very much exploratory in nature.
Elithmar wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:11 pm
include a few shadow warriors so Alith doesn't feel out of place
This is a further challenge!
Prince of Spires wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:14 pm
Magic might also be an issue. A single lvl4 is decent, but it's nto a strong magic phase.
The version I've got is about as good as a solo Lvl 4 gets for High Elves, it's surprisingly potent but you have a point Rod. The trouble is more magic means sacrificing either shooting or a Frostheart and I can't currently see a good balance with that.
Prince of Spires wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:14 pm
Skaven with storm banner, the no-flying spell and dreaded 13th can really screw this list over for instance.
The question is, when to activate the Banner? Probably at the start of elf turn one to immediately hamper shooting. It's at that point he'd hope to shoot down the Frosthearts with Warp Lightning Cannon. If he can't bag at least one the elves are looking OK I'd hazard. Not relying on Eagles for redirection is helpful. Dreaded 13th is hard to cast and likely to get scrolled first time. If it does get through, average kills are 14 so the characters would be OK and the unit would remain Stubborn for a while. The trick would be not to get stuck in a grinding combat after I guess. I'd say a -1 match-up but not -2.

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Re: Alith Anar List

#5 Post by Elithmar »

Admittedly some of the high elf special characters are pretty good. Did some people run Alarielle with a light coven? I think it's more a truism about special characters in general - certainly the wood elves aren't blessed with a great selection.

Go on then, here's my list, with the proviso it was based on models I have (and I'm a bit rusty):

Alith Anar
Level 4 Archmage, Shadow, Dispel Scroll

Noble, BSB, Eagle w/ Swiftsense & Shredding Talons, Lance, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Golden Crown
Handmaiden of the Everqueen, The Reaver Bow, Potion of Strength

30 Spearmen, Full Command
15 Archers, Champion, Musician
5 Reavers, Spears
5 Reavers, Spears

20 Swordmasters, Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon
9 Shadow Warriors
5 Dragon Princes, Musician

20 Sisters of Avelorn
Eagle Claw
Eagle Claw

2497

Not as strong as the one you posted, SA, but I suppose at least the dragon princes have an advantage over a phoenix in some of the situations Rod mentioned. The eagle BSB provides another fairly decent mobile threat. Spreading out the characters (handmaiden in sisters, Alith and archmage can go anywhere, but preferably Alith with the SMs to benefit from -1 to hit) helps against dwellers etc. And shadow hopefully provides withering to boost the shooting and mindrazor for the SMs or spears.
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Re: Alith Anar List

#6 Post by SpellArcher »

Elithmar wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:42 pm
Did some people run Alarielle with a light coven?
Not sure about the exact list but she was one of the usual suspects to be fielded in World Dragon Lions and cause lots of discomfort.
Elithmar wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:42 pm
I think it's more a truism about special characters in general - certainly the wood elves aren't blessed with a great selection.
There are some very nasty offenders, Throgg is an absolute beast for example. I'd agree about the Wood Elves. I like Drycha and Durthu is risky but powerful, the others though are distinctly dubious (maybe not the Sisters?).
Elithmar wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:42 pm
The eagle BSB provides another fairly decent mobile threat.
Yeah, I like this guy.
Elithmar wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:42 pm
And shadow hopefully provides withering to boost the shooting and mindrazor for the SMs or spears.
I wanted Shadow but reckoned Shield of Saphery was just too useful to protect the characters. Otherwise we're constantly worrying about them getting contacted.
Elithmar wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:42 pm
Not as strong as the one you posted
The Swordmasters are a strong unit (I've run this) and I agree Alith's -1 to be hit by shooting is excellent for them. The Spears also are live because of Shadow. The shooting is at least as good as my list's. I guess I'm a bit wary of the Archmage's lack of Ward save. Shadow has a decent range so he could sit in the Archers or Sisters but neither is a particularly resilient bunker. The Swordmasters look more attractive but he'd want a Ward then I suggest.

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Re: Alith Anar List

#7 Post by MasterOfNone »

That was a very interesting list, from which I have started, incorporating some of the comments made above.
Another concern I have is that the BSB is too vulnerable for my taste on the eagle. It can be shot down or grounded.

++ Standard (High Elves - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.0.) [2,500pts] ++

+ Lords +

Alith Anar [250pts]: AB - Moonbow, AB - Shadow Crown, AB - Stone of Midnight

Archmage [315pts]: Lore of Shadow, Wizard Level 4
. Magic Items: AB - Khaine's Ring of Fury, BRB - Dispel Scroll, BRB - Talisman of Preservation

+ Heroes +

Handmaiden of the Everqueen [140pts]
. Magic Items: AB - Reaver Bow, BRB - Potion of Strength

Noble [150pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Dragon Armour
. Magic Items: AB - Golden Crown of Atrazar, AB - Shield of the Merwyrm, BRB - Sword of Might

+ Core +

Archers [180pts]: 17x Archer, Musician

Ellyrian Reavers [80pts]
. 5x Ellyrian Reaver: 5x Spear (Mounted)

Ellyrian Reavers [80pts]
. 5x Ellyrian Reaver: 5x Spear (Mounted)

Spearmen [291pts]: Champion, Musician, 29x Spearman, Standard Bearer

+ Special +

Dragon Princes of Caledor [204pts]: 6x Dragon Prince
. Champion
. Standard Bearer: BRB - Banner of Eternal Flame

Sword Masters of Hoeth [340pts]: 20x Sword Master
. Champion
. Musician
. Standard Bearer: AB - Banner of the World Dragon

+ Rare +

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower [70pts]

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower [70pts]

Great Eagle [50pts]: Great Eagle

Sisters of Avelorn [280pts]: 20x Sister of Avelorn

++ Total: [2,500pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe
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Re: Alith Anar List

#8 Post by Prince of Spires »

I think the SM could work fine with Alith Anar. He helps mitigate one of their weaknesses, though regarding damage output in bigger units they don't differ all that much from WL. They're a bit interchangeable in this list.

In the first list I would prefer archers over spears. Those 5 extra attacks don't matter all that much. Even more so with shadow. If you get mindrazor off on them then 15 or 20 s8 attacks are not that different from each other. And the extra shooting is nice to have. I agree that the BSB on eagle is a bit too vulnerable. Especially in this list with no other big models on the table. He becomes an automatic arrow magnet.

I do think a frostheart phoenix adds more to the list then the sisters. It's just a lot better. What's more, if you take a frostheart and drop the eagle, then you can get another RBT in there to give you 2 extra high S threats
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Re: Alith Anar List

#9 Post by SpellArcher »

Prince of Spires wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:51 pm
I think the SM could work fine with Alith Anar. He helps mitigate one of their weaknesses, though regarding damage output in bigger units they don't differ all that much from WL. They're a bit interchangeable in this list.
I agree that SM's could work reasonably well here (and I'm a champion of them in general). Lions though bring S6 combat attacks which are otherwise in short supply in this list. They're also more durable against non-magical shooting. Aith's -1 helps vs RBT in particular but there are other issues such as Stone Throwers for example. I'd be inclined to equip the BSB with Merwyrm, Ironcurse Icon and Sword of Anti-heroes (I've run this guy with success). It still doesn't solve all issues but it helps I feel.
Prince of Spires wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:51 pm
In the first list I would prefer archers over spears.
There's a good case for this swap. Spears bring a magic standard option and less importantly, the 5+ save. If we know we're bringing Sisters then taking Spears because we want the unit deep at all times and ready to fight makes some sense at least.
Prince of Spires wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:51 pm
I do think a frostheart phoenix adds more to the list then the sisters.
This exchange would also get us back to a combat unit on each wing to fend off enemy outflanking. It might then make sense to swap the Handmaiden for a Lvl 2 Fire Mage. This would allow the Archmage to take Book of Hoeth if desired. There's also the possibility of bringing a Loremaster instead.

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Re: Alith Anar List

#10 Post by Elithmar »

Yeah, definitely a ward save on the archmage (dropping three shadow warriors gets a 4+). It was something I noticed just before posting the list. Not sure why I opted against one - must have been feeling really stingy when writing the list. :lol:

Archers or spears? I agree there's not much difference in combat, especially when mindrazor's involved, but as SA points out, there's no need to waste time reforming to get the ranks, among the other marginal benefits. I'm not a huge fan of archers, just because S3 can't do a lot, but I suppose withering makes them more of a threat.

I think with the BSB, I'm just trying to get him to fill another role besides providing rerolls. Maybe I'm too demanding of my BSBs! But I like them either to have reaver bow + PoS (already covered by the handmaiden) or provide a combat threat, which usually means either sitting him in a mini-bus of silver helms/dragon princes or putting him on an eagle. At least he has T4 and 3W, although leaving him on foot might be a slightly better choice.

Thinking about the role filled by the frosthearts in SA's list or, to a lesser extent, the dragon princes and BSB in mine, isn't this primarily a reactive role, to protect the shooting base? While it can be offensive if needed, if we're assuming the list will usually be defensive and rely on Alith, the handmaiden, and the RBTs to provide most of the punch, is there any harm in taking a second elite infantry unit instead of one of the frosthearts (or probably instead of the sisters and shadow warriors in my list)? That leaves you with at least one fast threat, while diversifying to make the list a bit more resilient against e.g. cannon or the skaven list described above.
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Re: Alith Anar List

#11 Post by SpellArcher »

Elithmar wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:31 pm
I think with the BSB, I'm just trying to get him to fill another role besides providing rerolls.
With Sword of Anti-heroes he would significantly improve the Swordmasters vs deathstars. I get that he would not be another, independent threat though.
Elithmar wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:31 pm
a second elite infantry unit instead
What would this unit look like specifically Eli?

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Re: Alith Anar List

#12 Post by Elithmar »

SpellArcher wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:41 am
What would this unit look like specifically Eli?
I was thinking probably 15 or so white lions or phoenix guard (for a real tar pit). Of course the main advantage of the phoenix is greater manoeuverability, but High makes up for that to some extent with hand of glory and walk between worlds. I do think there’s value in diversifying and not taking the second phoenix, in case your opponent has the perfect counter.
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Re: Alith Anar List

#13 Post by SpellArcher »

Elithmar wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:44 pm
Of course the main advantage of the phoenix is greater manoeuverability, but High makes up for that to some extent with hand of glory and walk between worlds. I do think there’s value in diversifying and not taking the second phoenix, in case your opponent has the perfect counter.
The Frosthearts are big, scary and demand attention. They remain though, less than 20% of the army's points so if a foe is really good at killing them, that leaves over 80% he's not so good at killing. In contrast Infantry already make up the vast majority of the roster, so an enemy who's really good at killing that (Skaven for example) has even more stuff he can kill. It's true that Infantry can't be one-shotted like a phoenix can but in general, there are many more things in the game that will do a number on Infantry than on a Frostheart. Yes High Magic can help with movement but that's not as reliable as having M9 or Fly when you need to push.

I feel that a 15-strong White Lion unit is just no good. Too big for MSU, too small to be a main battle unit (and the almost essential World Dragon is already in use elsewhere). PG make more sense to me though I think 15 a little small for 2500. If we're taking HIgh Magic both Swordmasters and PG want Shield of Saphery. 21's say of Lions (with World Dragon) and PG might make more sense there. Maybe we need another list draft.

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Re: Alith Anar List

#14 Post by Prince of Spires »

The main thing which makes the Frostheart such an awesome monster is that he's a force multiplier. Yes, he's got good stats and can stomp some stuff in the ground. And he takes attention to deal with. But he is amazing because of the frost aura, which gives -1S and ASL to your opponent. That means that not only is he harder to kill in combat. But if you get him in a combat together with another HE unit, then that unit will do better as well. He makes your units more durable by simply existing. Which is why he's heaps better than a flamespire.

I actually like units of 15 PG. I've ran them extensively and they always perform for me. The razor banner is pretty much mandatory on them though. But 15 with full command and razor banner for 300pts is a steal. They reroll attacks against any non-ASF unit in the game. I've had them hit with 16 out of 16 attacks. And they simply will not die. I've had them be the only unit left standing after the rest of my army was wiped off the table. LD9 helps them function on their own. Yes, a larger unit is of course better (in isolation), but it's easier to find 300pts then to find 400 or 500. Also, if you do get mindrazor cast on them then they become the single best unit in the game, bar none. I don't think there's any other unit out there who would put out 16 S9 attacks which reroll against anyone without ASF.

I do agree with SA that more infantry makes your list a bit easier to deal with and more 1-dimensional. Plenty of things can deal with infantry (from magic to monstrous cavalry). And HE infantry is always only T3, which means that it can even be ground down by weaker but more plentifull troops. Having a different threat in there makes prioritising more important for your opponent and it gives you more options.
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Re: Alith Anar List

#15 Post by Elithmar »

I suppose I'm just showing my anti-phoenix bias. :P Never been a fan of them, perhaps because I expected too much of them when I used them and was disappointed.

One phoenix and some dragon princes might be a good compromise then.
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Re: Alith Anar List

#16 Post by SpellArcher »

Elithmar wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:59 am
Never been a fan of them, perhaps because I expected too much of them when I used them and was disappointed.
What happened Eli?

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Re: Alith Anar List

#17 Post by Elithmar »

SpellArcher wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:55 am
What happened Eli?
I tried one with my cavalry prince list for a few games. Been a while since I read back over my old army blog, but I seem to remember getting it tied up on some skavenslaves and losing it to warp lightning cannon, plus losing it while trying to take on a beastmen unit solo. That's my fault for not using it as a force multiplier as Rod said, but trying to use it independently (which I felt was a problem with the whole army, given the small number of combat units. I did run into a fair few MSU/avoidance style lists though).

I did feel it was a bit vulnerable to shooting, especially since there weren't any other big targets (besides the silver helms bus, which always seemed to attract an inordinate amount of attention).
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Re: Alith Anar List

#18 Post by Prince of Spires »

For me it's usually actually pretty resillient against shooting attacks. With T6, 5+ armour, 5+ ward it can shrug off most small arms fire. Yes, it suffers against cannons, especially the skaven varieties if the skaven players rolls well. But that's an issue of monsters in general I feel. And it's more a game balance thing then anything else. But it indeed is not a star dragon which can take on an army by itself. It can hold up plenty of units for several turns. Even S6 needs a 5+ to wound after all. But it will not take them out single handedly. It has too few attacks for that. Which means it will run into steadfast units at some point and just get stuck there. As a single model, even just a rank will hold it up. But as long as you keep that in mind, then they are great.

The flamespire on the other hand I have had very little succes with. Though perhaps that's a topic for a different discussion, but in my experience it's not strong enough to fight stuff in combat and the wake of fire attack doesn't do all that much damage, even against weak units with a lot of ranks. It's okay against skaven and the like, but not worth the points investment.
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Re: Alith Anar List

#19 Post by SpellArcher »

I feel the Flamespyre wants a rider. In my experience the solo Frostheart can struggle to kill things. Mine generally beat Infantry blocks because of the Thunderstomp though. If you have the BSB within 12" he's very unlikely to break vs most opponents. I agree that if you get him into combat alongside a powerful unit the results can be tremendous. I did lose him to a Warp Lightning Cannon once but count that slightly unlucky because the random Strength helps a lot. RBT can take him down but they need quite a few shots, time they may not get.

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Re: Alith Anar List

#20 Post by Prince of Spires »

SpellArcher wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:25 am
I feel the Flamespyre wants a rider. In my experience the solo Frostheart can struggle to kill things. Mine generally beat Infantry blocks because of the Thunderstomp though. If you have the BSB within 12" he's very unlikely to break vs most opponents. I agree that if you get him into combat alongside a powerful unit the results can be tremendous. I did lose him to a Warp Lightning Cannon once but count that slightly unlucky because the random Strength helps a lot. RBT can take him down but they need quite a few shots, time they may not get.
I haven't tried a ridden Flamespyre yet. Maybe I will some day. I find him hard to justify in a list though. Even ridden he doesn't really add all that much to a list. Even more so because the rider doesn't add all that much out of combat, but if you are in combat then Wake of Fire is useless.

I know Curu made him work, but that was in a ETC list where points denial was more important than actually winning the game. Which is fine in a team tournament, but not what you want in a one-off game.

As for the frostheart, I think anything unlucky enough can die T1. There's similar situtations where a lvl4 decides to holiday in the warp first spell of the first turn, or where you fail your look-out sir roll against that cannonball or you fail that rerollable ld10 panic test or... It's the nature of the game. As long as dice are involved random stuff happens. Sometimes it sucks, but it can also make for epic moments. I remember a game where in the last combat of the last turn I had my general's unit in combat. I lost heavilly, to the point where I needed irresistable courage. I managed to roll that double 1 which turned a certain, major defeat into a minor victory. It was a great moment which got a laugh and a cheer from both me and my opponent :)
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Re: Alith Anar List

#21 Post by SpellArcher »

Prince of Spires wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:12 pm
I haven't tried a ridden Flamespyre yet. Maybe I will some day. I find him hard to justify in a list though. Even ridden he doesn't really add all that much to a list. Even more so because the rider doesn't add all that much out of combat, but if you are in combat then Wake of Fire is useless.
I believe that Fireborn is the real peach here. An Anointed on Frostheart already has Ward saves against normal shooting and at worst a 3++ vs spells. Fireborn laughs at Skillcannon and flaming Dwarf machines as well as nasties like the K'daai Destroyer. Add in Phoenix Reborn and the ridden Flamespyre is really very resilient, which lets you deliver those S7 Anointed attacks where you like, more or less.
Prince of Spires wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:12 pm
I know Curu made him work, but that was in a ETC list where points denial was more important than actually winning the game. Which is fine in a team tournament, but not what you want in a one-off game.
In fact it was Furion and he actually top-scored at that event! By his own admission he was helped by two teams completely misjudging the match-up and feeding him opponents he was able to table.

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Prince of Spires
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Re: Alith Anar List

#22 Post by Prince of Spires »

SpellArcher wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:14 pm
I believe that Fireborn is the real peach here. An Anointed on Frostheart already has Ward saves against normal shooting and at worst a 3++ vs spells. Fireborn laughs at Skillcannon and flaming Dwarf machines as well as nasties like the K'daai Destroyer. Add in Phoenix Reborn and the ridden Flamespyre is really very resilient, which lets you deliver those S7 Anointed attacks where you like, more or less.
Makes sense. If you regularly run into either flaming stuff or regenerating stuff then both Fireborn and the flaming attacks can be golden.
SpellArcher wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:14 pm
Prince of Spires wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:12 pm
I know Curu made him work, but that was in a ETC list where points denial was more important than actually winning the game. Which is fine in a team tournament, but not what you want in a one-off game.
In fact it was Furion and he actually top-scored at that event! By his own admission he was helped by two teams completely misjudging the match-up and feeding him opponents he was able to table.
You are very right of course. Too many people playing ETC too long ago... ;) Still, it does show that a team game tournament has very different dynamics compared to a 1-v-1 tournament.
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Re: Alith Anar List

#23 Post by Elithmar »

I can see the advantages and clearly the tournament evidence shows it can work very well, but I’d be concerned by a couple of things.

1. If the flamespyre gets killed, the anointed also gets removed, and there’s a 1/6 chance each turn that he’ll be lost permanently (I know there’s a higher chance of them both coming back, but in practice I’m sure that’s exactly when you’d roll a 1 :lol: ).

2. Lack of Ld10. Of course this can be solved by making an archmage general and giving Std of Discipline to his bunker.
Prince of Spires wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:09 pm
If you regularly run into either flaming stuff or regenerating stuff then both Fireborn and the flaming attacks can be golden.
Apologies if I misunderstand, but surely the flamespyre’s flaming attacks are pretty much useless against regen? It’s either going to do damage in the movement phase or in combat after all elf models, so no one else benefits if it removes regen for the phase.
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Re: Alith Anar List

#24 Post by SpellArcher »

Prince of Spires wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:09 pm
Still, it does show that a team game tournament has very different dynamics compared to a 1-v-1 tournament.
Agreed Rod.
Elithmar wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:50 am
Apologies if I misunderstand, but surely the flamespyre’s flaming attacks are pretty much useless against regen? It’s either going to do damage in the movement phase or in combat after all elf models, so no one else benefits if it removes regen for the phase.
Fair point Eli. Of course there is some benefit to removing Regen vs the Flamespyre's own attacks. These start at 3 S5 but can easily pick up +1S or +1A from Attuned to Magic. There's also it's Thunderstomp, not itself Flaming but it still benefits. Versus Plaguebearers or perhaps Temple Guard for example.
Elithmar wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:50 am
Lack of Ld10.
Again, fair point.
Elithmar wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:50 am
1. If the flamespyre gets killed, the anointed also gets removed, and there’s a 1/6 chance each turn that he’ll be lost permanently (I know there’s a higher chance of them both coming back, but in practice I’m sure that’s exactly when you’d roll a 1 ).
When we factor in the defensive benefits (including 1/3 of most hits being against the rider) I think it's worth it. If they do come back to life I believe the positioning can be very awkward for the foe.

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Re: Alith Anar List

#25 Post by Prince of Spires »

SpellArcher wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:22 pm
Elithmar wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:50 am
Apologies if I misunderstand, but surely the flamespyre’s flaming attacks are pretty much useless against regen? It’s either going to do damage in the movement phase or in combat after all elf models, so no one else benefits if it removes regen for the phase.
Fair point Eli. Of course there is some benefit to removing Regen vs the Flamespyre's own attacks. These start at 3 S5 but can easily pick up +1S or +1A from Attuned to Magic. There's also it's Thunderstomp, not itself Flaming but it still benefits. Versus Plaguebearers or perhaps Temple Guard for example.
The flaming indeed only benefits the phoenix itself. But regen is often the main defence regen units have, which makes them relatively strong. And against the skaven Abomination even getting in just 1 flaming wound works wonders by letting it not come back from the dead.

The annointed on top is pretty durable, with the in-built ward save. Yes, you can simply die on a 1, but you still come out on top in a lot of cases.
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