Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

[Curu Olannon]

Thanks for the list, Strange

Below is a picture of deployment prior to Vanguarding the Hounds (who moved straight up 12"):

[Curu Olannon]

:: Battle Report - Monsters of Chaos™ vs Dwarfs ::

Following the league I played in about a year ago, I was facing Strange's upgraded Dwarfs. Through that very league, he learned a thing or two about playing a gunline and adjusted his list. This new version would see me face well over one hundred great-weapon wielding Dwarfs, as well as the maximum amount of artillery allowed under the ETC restrictions.

Following our last game where Strange fielded his Tomb Kings, I had performed a couple of minor adjustments to the list as well. Most notably the characters now sported Great Weapons, drastically increasing my damage output at the cost of ASL. I was eager to see whether this was worth it or if it was too risky, considering one of my monters' greatest threats is a ranked infantry unit with great weapons. Also, despite the incredible output of the monsters, they are few in number and relatively easy to hurt badly with D6-wounds artillery.

:: Lists ::

Chaos Lord on Chaos Dragon with:
- Talisman of Endurance
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Charmed Shield
- Potion of Foolhardiness
- Great Weapon => 598

Chaos Shadow Sorceror with:
- Level 2
- Dispel Scroll
- Ironcurse Icon
- Relic Sword
- Enchanted Shield => 190

Exalted Hero with:
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Daemonic Mount
- Talisman of Preservation
- Scaled Skin
- Great Weapon => 241

Characters: 1024

21 Warriors of Chaos with
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Shields
- Champion, Musician
- Standard w/+1M
=> 402

5 Warhounds with:
- Vanguard => 40
5 Warhounds with:
- Vanguard => 40

1 Chariot of Chaos with:
- Mark of Khorne => 120

Core: 602

1 Chimera with:
- Breath Weapon
- Regeneration => 275
1 Chimera => 230

Special: 505

3 Skullcrushers with:
- musician
- ensorcelled weapons
- standard bearer
- banner of eternal flames => 264

Rare: 264

Total: 2400

===

Runesmith, Master rune of Balance, fireward, 2+ as
Thane BSB, Master rune of Challenge, 1+ reroll as
2x Dragon Slayers

2x 40 warriors, FC
10 quarellers

2x Stone Throwers
Canon
30 Hammerers, FC

2x Organ Guns

.::. Deployment .::.

I deployed the hounds centrally, intending to have the flyers behind the hill. He went for the open corner and refused the one with poor LoS. I played the Chariot on the extreme flank, hoping its Frenzy (and thus immune to psychology) would grant me some flexibility with regards to threatening the xbows + organ gun. The Skullcrushers got a central position and I took care to have both these, the Warriors and all the monsters in re-rollable LD9 range (harder than it sounds).



The dogs vanguarded straight ahead, 12", and I rolled up Enfeebling and Withering, swapping Enfeebling for Miasma. Rolling for first turn saw us tie, and then I won the re-roll!

.::. Warriors of Chaos Turn 1 .::.

The Warhounds move up very fast and are now next to the Organ Gun, just about. I take care to place them 6" apart and also out of the charge arc of the Dragon Slayer. The rest move up to take advantage of the Wall in the middle of the field, to hopefully dodge a cannonball. The Skullcrushers and BSB go in the open, with little other options. The Warriors moved full speed ahead, thankful for M5 due to the banner. On the West I made a slight mistake as I only moved the chariot 7" to stay out of 6" range from the Chimera as I forgot it was ItP due to Frenzy.

Magic is like 5v7 or something and although I manage to get off Withering on 3D6, both are dispelled. Shooting is, as per usual with WoC, pretty much non-existant and we move to his T1.


The monsters are closing in surprisingly fast, however the Dwarfs are readying their artillery for some serious opposition

.::. Dwarfs Turn 1 .::.

He thinks for a while, wondering whether to send the Slayer in against the Chimera or not. In the end, he decides no charges and instead moves the Slayers to more favourable positions.

Magic is skipped and we move to shooting:
- His West Organ Gun AND Xbows combine to take 2W (!) off the Chimera without regeneration
- His Flaming Grudge Thrower misfires and is unable to shoot for 2 turns
- His flaming cannon decides a 3+ ward is too much and instead finishes off the Chimera instead (the Chimera with regen + Dragon were behind a wall)
- The East Organ Gun decides to shoot the Warhounds, desperately hoping to save itself with a bit of luck. It only kills 2 and the last 3 miraculously pass their 5- LD test!

So, I lost a Chimera and a couple of hounds. Not too bad, considering the majority of my army is capable of engaging him in one turn!


The East flank is very eager to close ranks with the Dwarfs

.::. Warriors of Chaos Turn 2 .::.

I charge the Eastern Warriors with the Dragon, he passes terror and holds. The Chimera charges, he holds. The BSB charges, he holds. The Skullcrushers charge and he holds. The two Warhound units charge the Organ Gun and the Chariot charges the Slayer. Everything makes it in, except for the Skullcrushers. I position the monsters so that the BSB tanks the majority of the unit and the Dragon + Chimera are very well shielded (the Chimera can only be hit by two models + supporting attacks). He opted not to use Siren Song, as I could've easily redirected my efforts accordingly. On my own part, I forgot to use the Potion of Foolhardiness on the Lord.

The Warriors move up and the Skullcrushers stumble forward. Magic is 2v4 and I can't accomplish anything.

Close combat ensues and my BSB cries out a challenge, yet no-one accepts. In return, the monsters let loose with a couple of breath weapons and a lot of attacks. In a display of terrible dice rolling, Strange manages to not cause a single wound in return! When the dust settles, he's lost like 25 Dwarfs. He loses badly, obviously, but holds on steadfast. Against the Organ Gun my dogs win, but can't kill all the crew. The Chariot on the opposite side skewers the Slayer on impact hits and overrun into Crossbows (only possible because I positioned it corner-to-corner).

A very successful game so far, one big block drastically reduced, the monsters largely intact and the War Machines in trouble against core units.


The power of the monsters is making a mockery of Dwarven armour

.::. Dwarfs Turn 2 .::.

His Western Warriors are blocking the Hammerers' way to charge the Dragon: due to tight positioning they cannot complete the wheel. As such, they charge the Chariot (effectively taking them out from the game for a while) and the Hammerers flank the Dragon. In the middle, his remaining Slayer moves to redirect the Skullcrushers.

Magic is skipped and we again move to shooting:
- Organ Gun kills a Skullcrusher
- Cannon hits Skullcrushers but fails to wound!
- Grudge Thrower kills a single Warrior (Mark of Tzeentch greatly helping out along with Ironcurse Icon)

Again, not too bad. Combat follows, and the Khornite Chariot deals a massive 8W to the Xbows before they get to strike back. Somehow they manage to get one wound through its defenses and with it, the Warriors are just barely able to finish the job (he scored 3 wounds and I failed to save any of them). On the other flank, the Warhounds kill another crewman, leaving a sole Dwarf with the Organ gun. The monsters again kill quite a few Dwarfs, though with the lack of breath weapons the tally isn't nearly as big this time around. Also, the BSBs challenge is accepted and the Gods grant him with +1T after he slays the poor Dwarf. The Hammerers roll truly abysmal and fail to even score a single hit on the Dragon. Instead, the Warriors show them how it's done and wounds the Dragon once and the Chimera twice. Regardless, it is not sufficient and the Dwarfs lose again, however steadfast + re-rollable LD9 is solid for both units.


With the Dragon + Lord focusing their attentions on the Hammerers, the Warriors are left relatively safe compared to last turn

.::. Warriors of Chaos Turn 3 .::.

Skullcrushers charge the Slayer. Warriors back off, realizing they need to be able to fight the last block of Warriors later on.

Magic is 4v5 and I manage an IF Withering on his Hammerers! The ensuing miscast kills a couple of Warriors, no biggie. The Hammerers are down to T1.

Combat sees the Chaos Dragon breath the second fume on the Hammerers. Altogether, the combat phase sees the Warriors die, the Organ Gun dies, the Slayer dies, the Hammerers are down to 6. Dragon down to 3W.


The Dwarf Eastern flank is completely collapsed.

.::. Dwarfs Turn 3 .::.

Warriors approach and Withering is dispelled. The Flaming Grudge Thrower misses the Chimera but scatters onto the Lord. The Dragon is hit by the big hit and suffers 2 wounds, down to 1W. Organ Gun hits the BSB with a massive 10 hits, but not a single one makes it through his protection!

In combat, the Dragon's challenge is met by the Hammerer champion who is killed before the Lord gets to strike. Again, he passes the break test.


The end game draws near

.::. Warriors of Chaos Turn 4 .::.

I realize now how the rest of the game has to turn out for me to win big: I need to clear his back field of war machines and manage a combo-charge T6 (T5 is too soon). To do this, the plan is to let one unit of dogs kill a war machine, while the other unit combines with the BSB to kill a second, to wrap around and block stuff T5, setting up T6. Furthermore, the Dragon needs to kill the rest alone and survive a turn of Dwarf shooting.

So, the warhounds go to work with the BSB to clear out the Artillery. The Warriors march up and the Chimera moves to hide from the flaming Grudge Thrower.

Magic sees me try and tempt his DD out with Withering on the Hammerers, hoping to get Miasma through in order to improve the Dragon's odds of survival. However, Withering goes off with IF, to no use seeing as I hurt him on 2's anyways. The result again kills a couple of Warriors.

Combat: the Dogs + BSB kill a machine and rally. The other dogs stay in combat. The Dragon kills all the remaining Hammerers and the BSB auto-dies, sorely missing Stubborn. However, the Dragon goes down as well and the Lord finds himself afoot.


The Dwarf Warriors are eager to seek revenge

.::. Dwarfs Turn 4 .::.

Not much to do here, the Warriors move up and the artillery fire loose: the Lord loses a wound and the GT misfires, unable to shoot for just this turn.

In combat the dogs tie the WM crew.



.::. Warriors of Chaos Turn 5 .::.

The BSB charges the flaming Grudge Thrower, the Chimera moves up (taking care to stay outside of 24" of the OG) and the Warriors max out, with the remaining Warhounds blocking the Dwarfs. The Lord joins the Warriors, unwilling to tank more Organ Gun shots on his own.

Magic is insignificant. The BSB kills the WM and the dogs kill another crewman.



.::. Dwarfs Turn 5 .::.

His Warriors opt to reform, facing my Warriors 5-wide and very deep. The Organ Gun kills the dogs, panic is passed.

.::. Turn 6 .::.

I load everything into his Warriors, hoping for the big kill (the unit is worth like 700 points with bonuses). However, I make a big mistake as I challenge with my mage (to keep him safe). Unfortunately, he is on the corner next to the Runesmith, who accepts. This makes my Chimera unable to attack, as it is only in base contact with the Runesmith. Naturally, the Mage is too weak to kill him, so this was a big mistake on my part. To add insult to injury, the Lord is corner-to-corner as well, only touching the unit champion. I am unable to make him lose steadfast: after two rounds of combat he has ~19 models left and my Warriors are only 2 ranks deep. He passes a final LD9 test and the game is over.


The Warriors of Chaos are victorious, but the stalwart Dwarfs hold the last bastion for just long enough, preventing ultimate defeat

.::. Victory Points .::.

Counting up I am ahead by 1160 victory points, which yields a 17-3 victory to the Warriors of Chaos!

.::. Evaluation .::.

Against Dwarfs I find that the earlier a dice is thrown, the more it matters. This is especially true with regards to the roll-off for first turn. I think it impacted the game hugely (as per usual), and coupled with the insane speed this army has, I had a very good start. His T1 shooting was pretty abysmal as well, which gave me a plethora of options come my T2.

The Warhounds performed spectacularly this game. 12" vanguard with a 14" march is pretty insane. I think I'll quickly find that these guys are very useful. It also makes me wonder whether a Slaanesh fast-cav lord can be worthwhile: with 12" Vanguard and M10 he's pretty darn fast and mobile!

The Great Weapons on the characters worked incredibly well, being able to strike with S7 just punches through everything. Their defensive capabilities also proved to be spectacular, the BSB in particular kept tanking stuff the entire game.

C&C very welcome, for both armies

[Irishranger]

Horrible matchup for the poor dwarfs as there are far too many targets to bring down. Obviously getting turn one helped but I think you would have been fine without it. Missing the positioning on the last engagement was unfortunate but it was still a solid win. The dwarfs need longbeards with gw as a second block of s6 to be really threatening. The dwarf lord on shield bearers is also very solid and can hold up the lord on a dragon easily.

[Curu Olannon]

Indeed there are a lot of targets. I must admit though, during the start of his T1 it didn't feel like "too many targets". I guess that's just how it is playing against Dwarfs though

How would you structure a Dwarfs army to fight in a single-player environment under the ETC restrictions? You have some ideas that aren't too common (at not as far as I know Dwarfs).

[Lord Anathir]

I ran a dwarf lord, core xbows with GW, runesmith, bsb, and then 2 stone throwers with master engineer, cannon, organ gun. block of hammers to put the lord and bsb inside (with challenge). 10 slayers and also MR3 on the master engineer so if Im fighting vs death magic I can put him with the characters and still be in range of war machines. Won a small tournament once and always put me in contention with multiple 2nd or 3rd place finishes. Best list I have used in 10 years of gaming. Probably would have won a few more if not some pieces of bad luck in final games.

What I learned...
- warriors with great weapons are garbage, no matter how many people on bugmans advocate their use. 45 xbow shots are just better at thinning stuff down, along with the organ they are great for thinning out non-deep infantry.
- hammerers are more often then not best deployed deep, with the lord and BSB taking up 3 out of 5 frontage, and the champ the 4th. Once charges are taken you can use combat reforms to get into good positions if you choose to, but character tanking is essential for the survival of the unit. Because they strike last and have paper armor they are never something I have in 10x3 unless Im fighting a depleted unit.
- anvil is a liability, and the anvil + miner setup really isnt suited for singles. Too many armies simply dont care about miners charging them in the rear.
- the lord with 1+ rerollable save, immune to KB and poison, and max st5 against him is essential for tying up lords that would otherwise break your hammerers. st8 vs 5+ helps too.
-cannon cant be flaming anymore, one GT flaming is enough.

[Curu Olannon]

Thanks a lot for the input, Lord Anathir. Your thoughts about Warriors without shooting in particular makes a lot of sense to me.

Could I ask you for the specific character setups with concrete runes etc?

[Irishranger]

This is what won the last single player tournament here under etc restrictions. It was played well but should be a solid reliable list. The hammerers had rune of grungi for the spare 50 points.
Lords - 411
Dwarf Lord (221)
Rune of Preservation; Rune of Resistance; Rune of Stone; great weapon; Shieldbearers.

Runelord (190)
Rune of Spellbreaking; Rune of Spellbreaking.

Heroes - 244
Thane (144)
Master Rune of Gromril; Rune of Resistance; great weapon; Battle Standard.

Dragon Slayer (50)

Dragon Slayer (50)

Core - 601
30 Longbeards (445)
Veteran; Musician; Standard Bearer; Ancestor Rune; Rune of Determination; great weapons.

12 Quarrellers (156)
great weapons.

Special - 850
Cannon (140)
Engineer; Rune of Forging.

Grudge Thrower (170)
Engineer; Rune of Penetrating; Rune of Penetrating; Rune of Accuracy.

Grudge Thrower (150)
Engineer; Rune of Accuracy; Rune of Penetrating; Rune of Burning.

30 Hammerers (390)
Gate Keeper; Musician; Standard Bearer.

Rare - 240
Organ Gun (120)

Organ Gun (120)

[Curu Olannon]

Thanks for the input, Irishranger! I like how taking a Dwarf Lord allows you to essentially play Core without Warriors at all

[Lord Anathir]

Dwarf Lord, Steel, Might, Preservation, Resistance, Shieldbearers, shield, +1 WS 298
BSb, stone, shield, rerollable, ITKB, MROchallenge 162
Runesmith, scroll, master rune of balance, shield 147
21 Xbows, GW, FC 298
20 Xbows, GW, FC, Rangers 305
26 Hammerers, FC, Grungni 392
10 slayers, 2 champs 140
Organ 120
GT 155 pen pen acc
GT 135 pen acc bur
Cnnon 125 forging
ME, stone, rune of +1 MR x3 120
2397

Probably could swap the slayers for another organ, but I dont think I can fit in 5 machines behind my lines and defend them safely. I spent over a year developing this list slowly, and the slayers and the mr3 on the master engineer were the final additions. Magic defense is a bit weak but should be good enough to dispel the important stuff. I always found people just went for IF on mega spells anyways.

I like irish rangers list but... no rune of challenge and no master rune of steel, and no ME for those grudges. no kb protection on the bsb. these area necessities in my mind, that I learned the hard way. Not to say its not a functional list, indeed in many ways the core of the lists are the same. I just dont think its as well rounded as it can be. Not sure what the longbeards bring to the table...if your opponent has a unit your hammerers cant handle or tie up, the longbeards arent going to do any better. xbows have to be in numbers to be useful. theyre not exactly sharp shooters and a unit of 12 loses combat to everything.

In scenario tournaments the slayers can lose a champ for a musician + flag bearer and put me at 2400 on the dot.

[Strange]

Dwarf Lord, Steel, Might, Preservation, Resistance, Shieldbearers, shield, +1 WS 298
BSb, stone, shield, rerollable, ITKB, MROchallenge 162
Runesmith, scroll, master rune of balance, shield 147
21 Xbows, GW, FC 298
20 Xbows, GW, FC, Rangers 305
26 Hammerers, FC, Grungni 392
10 slayers, 2 champs 140
Organ 120
GT 155 pen pen acc
GT 135 pen acc bur
Cnnon 125 forging
ME, stone, rune of +1 MR x3 120
2397

I wholeheartedly agree with you about Warriors. They were great at the start of 8th when we bashed hordes at each other. But Dwarfs are so slow that shifting around two hordes is a logistical nightmare. I'm not completely sold on the xbows though. People rarely oblige with placing the eligible targets in front of them. I found move-or-fire wanting more. The tank Lord I've often gone with has been with Spite instead of Steel, though never tried to crunch numbers on likely combats.

I'm curious about your Slayers though, how do you use them? What is the plan? Were do they fit in to the deployment?

[Curu Olannon]

@Lord Anathir - interesting list! Did you ever find lack of infantry to be a problem?

@Strange - I think that by deploying well and considering firing lanes, you can achieve quite a bit with move-or-fire weapons. Also, they aren't really that much more expensive than Warriors

I got the MAS bases yesterday and started converting straight away. Tonight I'm hoping I can finish the demigryphs, they have rather complex bases to put together (long story, I'll explain later). Anyways, so far I finished the chariot and the BSB. The latter is not attached to his base, so transportation is super-easy:

[Curu Olannon]

I just got back from a very interesting game, pitching my Monster of Chaos™ against a compact and character-heavy High Elf list. It was highly interesting and tactical, with lots of tense moments and crucial dice rolls. Report to follow as soon as I have the time. For now, here's a picture of deployment (prior to Vanguarding the Warhounds):


His Mage had Seerstaff (Death) and chose Spirit Leech + Soulblight. His Archmage had Heavens and rolled up Convergence, Blizzard, Thunderbolt and Comet. I had Steed of Shadows and Miasma

[Elithmar]

Can't really comment on your deployment as your units can redeploy so quickly! The lions might be a bit far out though, and I find putting the bsb and prince in those units weird though, unless they have magic bows.

[Curu Olannon]

Can't really comment on your deployment as your units can redeploy so quickly! The lions might be a bit far out though, and I find putting the bsb and prince in those units weird though, unless they have magic bows.

He did have the Reaver Bow on the BSB and the Bow of the Seafarer on the Prince Besides, it makes perfect sense to place them centrally for bubble-LD10 and the option of moving up semi-aggressively, creating no-comfort zones for my (otherwise) free-to-move-as-I-please units.

[Lord Anathir]

Dwarf Lord, Steel, Might, Preservation, Resistance, Shieldbearers, shield, +1 WS 298
BSb, stone, shield, rerollable, ITKB, MROchallenge 162
Runesmith, scroll, master rune of balance, shield 147
21 Xbows, GW, FC 298
20 Xbows, GW, FC, Rangers 305
26 Hammerers, FC, Grungni 392
10 slayers, 2 champs 140
Organ 120
GT 155 pen pen acc
GT 135 pen acc bur
Cnnon 125 forging
ME, stone, rune of +1 MR x3 120
2397

I wholeheartedly agree with you about Warriors. They were great at the start of 8th when we bashed hordes at each other. But Dwarfs are so slow that shifting around two hordes is a logistical nightmare. I'm not completely sold on the xbows though. People rarely oblige with placing the eligible targets in front of them. I found move-or-fire wanting more. The tank Lord I've often gone with has been with Spite instead of Steel, though never tried to crunch numbers on likely combats.

I'm curious about your Slayers though, how do you use them? What is the plan? Were do they fit in to the deployment?

@Lord Anathir - interesting list! Did you ever find lack of infantry to be a problem?

Curu:

I think you have to be prepared for people identifying the xbows as the weakness and making sure they don't break. The beauty of the hammerers is that with the characters they can take on nearly any non monster unit in the game, fresh. That leaves all your shooting to focus on the threats on the xbows. There are all sorts of tricks to save them, that come with experience. Buildings, rune of challenge (to force flank clipping on the hammerer unit), slayers, blocking charges. Its amazing what m3 can do when everything is packed together. Remember the xbows have GW. Even if something gets through to them, I am going to make sure I hit it with as much shooting as possible. The biggest danger are monstrous cavalry. But even if faced with a unit of 5, I'm confident I can bring them down to 2 or 3 models before the charge. 3 MC have a rank bonus so I might be unwilling to leave them at 3 models. If I'm faced with 2x5 I will pump all into 1 unit, and rune of challenge the other, or feed them slayers. It really depends on the situation. But the important thing is that I have options.

Xbows not only kill chaff, they're also blocking paths to the warmachines. They mess with opponent deployment too. Putting things like swordmasters or glade guard to matchup against my warmachines is no longer feasible because of my own missile troops. While the damage output of xbows is not super high, its enough to prevent me from having to use my organ gun to clear something like.... 5 dogs/reavers in front of my hammerers.

Also xbows are very very important in certain matchups where warmachines do not do as much damage, like in for example vs a skink list. I think the last game I played without xbows was vs a heavy skirmisher double slann list. It was dreadful, even with anvil I couldnt catch anything and literally had to sit there and just take casualties in order not to lose big points.

Master rune of steel is way better then a 4+ ward. A few reason why. 1) everything wounds you on max 4+ 2) not affected by other trickster's shard 3) you have a 3+ or (4+ vs st5 armor piercing) rerollable save, which is basically like a ward. Weapons that negate armor entirely are very very rare. Like your cavalry prince he has no ward so vulnuerable to death magic, hence the placement of the m3 on the engineer.

It takes a while to get familiarized with, I spent one night just messing around with ways to deploy, considering m3 on the engineer, 3 inch range from ME to stone throwers, 6 inch bubble of grungni, and various other factors to take into accounts.

Slayers are useful. 2 champs is nice. I use them as warmachine guards, mostly if something like flyers wants to go around my xbows. What it does is let me put at least one xbow unit deployed parallel to the board edge and not slanted to protect charge paths to machines. It gives me more shots, and more space, and frees the xbows to possible swift reform to help hammerers and stuff. Also slayers don't need to be in bsb range which is nice. They're like my reserve unit, which is nice.

I should say that probably in an etc team setting its not the super best setup to go with. because of matchups the anvil/miner spam might be best, because some armies simply cannot deal with that army.

[Elithmar]

Fair enough, just guessing he didn't have the bows.

[Curu Olannon]

@Lord Anathir - thanks for the elaboration. I see how a lot of this makes sense, especially the part about adding to the firepower against tricky units and protecting war machines. Indeed a decent-sized unit of Quarrellers with Great Weapons can beat a lot of things in combat. M3 is also surprisingly flexible as long as you can make the enemy come to you

@Elithmar of Lothern - yeah, my bad! I`ll post the lists in a second and if I´m lucky I`ll have time for the rest of the report tonight

[Curu Olannon]

Army lists from yesterday`s game:

Chaos Lord on Chaos Dragon with:
- Talisman of Endurance
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Charmed Shield
- Potion of Foolhardiness
- Great Weapon => 598

Chaos Shadow Sorceror with:
- Level 2
- Dispel Scroll
- Ironcurse Icon
- Relic Sword
- Enchanted Shield => 190

Exalted Hero with:
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Daemonic Mount
- Talisman of Preservation
- Scaled Skin
- Great Weapon => 241

Characters: 1024

21 Warriors of Chaos with
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Shields
- Champion, Musician
- Standard w/+1M
=> 402

5 Warhounds with:
- Vanguard => 40
5 Warhounds with:
- Vanguard => 40

1 Chariot of Chaos with:
- Mark of Khorne => 120

Core: 602

1 Chimera with:
- Breath Weapon
- Regeneration => 275
1 Chimera => 230

Special: 505

3 Skullcrushers with:
- musician
- ensorcelled weapons
- standard bearer
- banner of eternal flames => 264

Rare: 264

Total: 2400

Prince with Armour of Caledor, Bow of the Seafarer, Talisman of Loec, Great Weapon
Heavens Archmage with Level 4, Annulian Crystal, Loremaster`s Cloak
BSB with Reaver Bow, Dragon Armour, Great Weapon
Death Mage with Level2, Seerstaff (ETC allows you to choose when you deploy the mage, you don`t have to write the spells on your army roster)

27 Archers with Full Command and Flaming Banner
12 Archers with Musician
20 Spears with Champion, Musician

24 Lions with Full Command, Banner of Sorcery
27 Lions with Full Command, Amulet of Light

1 Great Eagle

[Curu Olannon]

.::. Battle Report - Monsters of Chaos™ vs High Elves .::.

For the first time ever, I find myself on the opposite end of the table. There's one big advantage in playing against one's own race: I know it extremely well. I know every little trick they can play and just what they're capable of. There's also a disadvantage: knowing how powerful the army is, one can get a little too scared.

The list type I was facing truly was a first for me. The way it was used was, in my opinion, incredibly smart and I found the game highly interesting. I'm hoping you will as well.

The format of the game was the newest ETC draft, pitting my 2400 points of Warriors of Chaos against my opponent's 2500 points of High Elves.

First, the lists:

Chaos Lord on Chaos Dragon with:
- Talisman of Endurance
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Charmed Shield
- Potion of Foolhardiness
- Great Weapon => 598

Chaos Shadow Sorceror with:
- Level 2
- Dispel Scroll
- Ironcurse Icon
- Relic Sword
- Enchanted Shield => 190

Exalted Hero with:
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Daemonic Mount
- Talisman of Preservation
- Scaled Skin
- Great Weapon => 241

Characters: 1024

21 Warriors of Chaos with
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Shields
- Champion, Musician
- Standard w/+1M
=> 402

5 Warhounds with:
- Vanguard => 40
5 Warhounds with:
- Vanguard => 40

1 Chariot of Chaos with:
- Mark of Khorne => 120

Core: 602

1 Chimera with:
- Breath Weapon
- Regeneration => 275
1 Chimera => 230

Special: 505

3 Skullcrushers with:
- musician
- ensorcelled weapons
- standard bearer
- banner of eternal flames => 264

Rare: 264

Total: 2400

Prince with Armour of Caledor, Bow of the Seafarer, Talisman of Loec, Great Weapon
Heavens Archmage with Level 4, Annulian Crystal, Loremaster`s Cloak
BSB with Reaver Bow, Dragon Armour, Great Weapon
Death Mage with Level2, Seerstaff (ETC allows you to choose when you deploy the mage, you don`t have to write the spells on your army roster)

27 Archers with Full Command and Flaming Banner
12 Archers with Musician
20 Spears with Champion, Musician

24 Lions with Full Command, Banner of Sorcery
27 Lions with Full Command, Amulet of Light

1 Great Eagle

.::. Pre-game thoughts and deployments .::.

Running some simulations prior to the game, I was confident I could take on a Lion horde if either of these 3 occured:
- Warriors to the front, monsters in flank. On average, Warriors go roughly 50-50 against Lions (sword-and-board Tzeentch are durable as ****) for the first round of combat. Together with the monster, this would win combat and the 2nd round would see the damage output drastically reduced.
- BSB to the front alone, whatever to the flank. The BSB on average takes less than 1W per combat phase from a full horde of lion attacks. If this can get any support, the horde should die fairly quickly.
- Breath weapons (at least 2 needed) followed up by multi-charges.

As such, my game plan was to overload a flank and present no other viable options than for a Lion horde to choose one of the above. I didn't know which flank I'd go for prior to the game as I had no clue how he'd deploy the army. It became apparant rather soon that he was going for a refused flank, with the flaming Archers close to the table edge and the biggest Lions on the opposite end, protecting his refused flank. To this end, I deployed a chariot and the naked chimera on the big Archer flank, with Warriors and Skullcrushers centrally placed. The rest went in the middle of the board, essentially opposite his big Lions. The idea was to chaff away the center, put pressure on the left (so he couldn't just wheel around and flank my entire advancing infantry/skullcrushers) and find a good position on the refused flank.

Magic saw me roll up Steed of Shadows and Enfeebling Foe. While Enfeebling Foe was an attractive choice, I reasoned that it would be very hard for me to get it off when needed, with max. 4 PD per spell and his +1 dice and +5 to dispel. On the other hand, Steed of Shadows is always dangerous and when miasma is dangerous as well, one might get through. Setting up for one of the three cases above, I reasoned Steed would be the better spell. A rare, but surprisingly effective decision. My opponent got Iceshard Blizzard, Harmonic Convergence, Thunderbolt and Comet as well as picking Spirit Leech and Soulblight. Having very few drops, he got +1 for first turn and promptly out-rolled me:


Deployment prior to vanguarding the Warhounds

.::. High Elves Turn 1 .::.

The Spears move up aggressively and all the characters move in, taking care to be out of charge range of everything that can possibly hurt them. The rest of the army re-locates to create no-comfort zones and start unleashing arrows. I realize how much not getting first turn cost me: allowing him to re-position like this effectively hinders my T1 movement. This is mostly because of the fact that my flyers can go where they want, but they're dependent on support from the infantry and/or cavalry, which are effectively in a poor position with all his characters and spears in the centre: if I try to go for this point his Lions can easily flank me and the game will be over before I can say cake. Also, the Eagle, as I very well know, can cause me severe problems if either the Warriors or Skullcrushers attempt something funny.

Magic gives us a 10v6 split. He starts off with a 3D6 Thunderbolt on the Lord, which I let through. The net result is that my charmed shield effect is gone, not too shabby. I dispel Spirit Leech (a very high value on 4D6) and he fails to cast Comet.

Shooting sees his Characters target the Dragon, but poor rolls lead to no wounds caused. The big Archers on the other hand get an impressive 2W through the Chimera's scaly skin.

Overall, not too bad for T1 but missing all those options from moving has me worried. It's always hard to say early in a game whether getting the first or last turn will be decisive.



.::. Monsters of Chaos™ Turn 1 .::.

First things first: frenzy test. The chariot is 16" away from the Eagle. If I hit it, I will almost certainly lose it. On the other hand, I have no other way to take out the Eagle and in effect, this might save me a turn of shooting. Anyways, I fail the LD8 test so don't have much choice in the matter. I do fail to make the required 8+ however and stumble forwards like 5" or so. This makes me decide to give up on the Western flank: his Lions have already spent a turn adjusting to a potential aggressive move on my part and if the Archers do nothing all game but try and hurt the chariot that's fine with me, really. So, warhounds run to block the center and I move up cautiously with the Warriors + Skullcrushers. I'm afraid of the Eagle and a sudden aggressive move from the Lions, which can essentially leave me stranded with the characters on one flank with the big Lions threatening them, and the rest of my army against his characters and the other Lions. Not a very lucrative situation. The flyers start wrapping around the Eastern flank and I realize I probably won't have the engagement I want before T3 or maybe even T4. That's a lot of time for him to shoot and cast spells, but I don't see any other way apart from suicidally charging in, praying for luck to carry me through.

Magic sees me roll snake eyes, and with his Annulian Crystal I am actually theoretically incapable of getting a spell off (even with a '6' and him rolling three 1's he'll make the dispel) - a very weird situation to be in. Shooting is of course void and we move to his T2.


Note that I kept the Skullcrushers in range of both the BSB and the General. I consider this essential as failing a frenzy test with them might very well lose me the game.

.::. High Elves Turn 2 .::.

He reforms just about his entire army and pulls back. The characters jump around and this turn really highlight the flexibility of his build: playing with such few units and so densely deployed means he can basically play his entire army like chess pawns: creating a strong position around which his characters can work. The fact that Lions can go toe-to-toe with anything and his magic + shooting make most opponents impatient combined with this means it's hard to play against, unless you've got units tough or numerous enough to just wade in (Ogres, Skaven come to mind). His Eagle moves to block the Skullcrushers, angling an overrun into the middle of no-where.

Magic is 8v4. He starts off with a solid Spirit Leech on my mage, with a very high casting value. I decide it's stupid to just let the scroll die, which it likely will, so I scroll the spell instead. He then gets Thunderbolt through on the Dragon, I'm powerless to beat his casting value. The result sees the Dragon wounded twice.

Shooting is again pretty miserable, he fails to make any impressions on either of my targeted units whatsoever. I've played with the magic bows before so I know just how fickle they can be. I also know it won't last forever, sooner or later S6 D3 wounds will get through.



.::. Monsters of Chaos™ Turn 2 .::.

The chariot fails its frenzy test again, this time being 16" away from the Spears. I charge with the Chimera as well, hoping to get a strong position in the centre for a relatively cheap price (the Chimera is 2W down anyway and the Chariot has kept the Western Lions busy for 2 turns (the Archers as well, actually). I pass the Skullcrushers' frenzy test, many thanks to re-rollable LD9. Charges see my Chariot fail, again, and the Chimera goes at it alone. I reform the Warhounds to a congaline, pointing towards the Archers. The idea is to block the Lions for another turn, if possible. The Lord moves to the middle of the field and the Skullcrushers reform to 2+1, getting out of the Eagle's arc while the BSB rear-charges it.

Magic is 7v7 and I eye my opportunity for an opening: I send a boosted Miasma towards his character bunker. While he can simply move out of the unit to avoid the loss of BS, he might end up having M2, meaning he essentially has to stay put if he wants to shoot. He dispels it and I get Steed of Shadows through: my Lord flies to the big Lions' flank, angled to look back at my own lines. This allows me to play aggressively should he attempt anything as a rear-charging dragon is extremely tough, even against White Lions. I line up the Skullcrushers as bait (14" away from the Lions) with the BSB and Chimera ready to intervene.

Shooting sees me save the breath weapon as I cannot get an optimal shot due to my angle and I don't think he's likely to pack 4W on the Dragon in a single turn.

Combat sees the Chimera wounded once (1W left) and bring the Spears down to 8: they're still steadfast and hold on re-rollable LD10. The BSB wipes the Eagle and reforms.



.::. High Elves Turn 3 .::.

After thinking for a bit the Lions decide to try the Crushers, needing 9+. He fails the charge. The rest of the army reforms as best they can, creating a defensive perimeter. The Lions are now very exposed though, and I have my wanted opening. Now, I just have to weather one or two more turns of his ranged power and I'll (hopefully) be home free.

Magic is 7v3. I dispel Thunderbolt on the Dragon as its position is now of paramount importance, but utterly useless if I cannot use a breath weapon (or two). He then lands Spirit Leech on the regen chimera. I roll a '6', but he rolls high as well and I take quite a few wounds: luckily regen saves my bacon and the net result is 2W. Shooting sees his bows finally put up a better display as he puts another wound on the Dragon.

In combat the Spears manage a single wound on the Chimera, prior to armour saves. I roll the dice, really hoping to get a 4+ because my chimera will be in such a perfect position for my T3, but to no avail: it comes up a '2' and the Chimera goes down, unable to wipe the remaining 8 Spears. The Warhounds panic, never to reform.



.::. Monsters of Chaos™ Turn 3 .::.

I move the Dragon to a perfect position on one flank of the Lions, likewise with a Chimera on the other. I place Warhounds to block them off so he cannot charge out, moving the Skullcrushers up (by way of swift reform to be 3 wide again) along with the BSB for Turn 4 nice-ness. The Warriors charge his Spears, along with the chariot who fails its frenzy test. I again fail to reach them with the chariot, who's still running around on the Western field in a slow pace, tanking S3 arrows like no tomorrow.

Magic is again very low and I cannot cast anything. We move to shooting, which for a change is exciting. I let loose the S2 Breath Weapon from the Dragon, killing 7 Lions. The Chimera then follows up with another 8. The big bad horde of 27 now looks a lot more managable at 12. My Warriors kill his Spears, but not all. The remaining flee to an awkward position in the middle of the board, effectively limiting his other Lions' options.



.::. High Elves Turn 4 .::.

He backs up again with all units, apart from the big Archers who move up to block the Chariot, probably figuring he can hold it for the rest of the game. His (now) small Lions give up and reform to 5+5+2.

Magic is 11v6. He starts off with Spirit Leech on my mage. I let it through, reasoning that, although he's worth quite a few vp, he's unlikely to impact the game a whole lot and there are more important threats to worry about. I am however very lucky and take no wounds, despite his LD10 to my LD8. I manage to dispel the rest.

Shooting finally sees the magic bows go to town, perhaps the noble elves realized how desperate the situation was getting: the Seafarer Bow opens up with 2W on the Dragon and the Reaver Bow scores a single wound. Again I'm left with 1D6 save (although this time at 5+) which I promptly fail and the Dragon goes down, leaving the Lord on foot.



.::. Monsters of Chaos™ Turn 4 .::.

The chariot starts with failing its frenzy test (no surprises there!) but it doesn't matter, I would've charged the Archers anyway. Being stuck in combat and denying his characters another unit to jump in is perfectly fine with me. I move to the extreme West flank to avoid any interception, unless he really commits to it. The Skullcrushers luckily pass theirs. Then, I declare a charge with the Skullcrushers on the Spears, who flee (as they're already fleeing they have no choice). The idea was to have them effectively block his other Lions, but he rolls too high (needed 8+) and runs through them. I then successfully pass the LD-test to redirect, going into the Lions instead (need 6+ on swiftstride). The BSB charges Lions (needing 5+ on swiftstride) along with the Dragon + Chimera. The idea was to have the BSB centrally, shielding the other units with his ungodly saves. However, he miserably fails to make the 5+ roll needed and the other 3 units go at it alone. I still manage to get the 2W Chimera corner-to-corner, but 10 Lions can still significantly hurt the Skullcrushers.

Magic is 2v3 and again I can't do anything (I tried a boosted Miasma on the small Lions). Shooting is void and we move to combat: my Chaos Lord cries out a challenge, which the Guardian reponds to. He fails to wound him, but more impressively (depending on how you see it), I fail to wound him, rolling triple 1's for my hits! The Lions put 3W on the Skullcrushers, thus removing 1 model. The Chimera gets wounded once as well. In return, I bring the Lions down to 3 + champ, but they hold on Stubborn.

More surprisingly is the other end of the board: his general is too far away and the big Archers fail their re-rollable LD8 break test against the Chariot! I'm able to catch him as well, leaving the Chariot in an extremely good position! Way to go, slow and steady: the turtle wins the race ^^



.::. High Elves Turn 5 .::.

As he starts his 5th turn, I realize that I was very lucky with not killing the Lions completely. Though this might cause me another casualty or two, it prevents a LOT of his shooting and magic on all the important stuff. Furthermore, the position of the chariot dictates that he prioritizes it, otherwise the characters (especially the soft mages) might be in big trouble.

So, he moves all characters out of the unit, moving the fighters in the direction of the chariot. The Lions take up a defensive position.

Magic is 12v6. He starts off with a Comet, which lands in the middle of the mess near the Lions' combat, a little to his side. He then casts a boosted Harmonic Convergence and Iceschard Blizzard on the Chimera (no damage). I dispel Spirit Leech on my mage.

Shooting sees the Lord fail to hit the Chariot, however the BSB really feels the call to glory and puts 3W(!!) through its tough frame, leaving it on a single wound.

Combat sees my Lord kill his Guardian after taking a wound, and the Gods bless him with +1T. The Chimera is wounded once, and again we're down to a 4+ save. This time I make it, and together with the Skullcrushers (whom the Lions fail to impress) the rest are wiped out.

.::. The last turns .::.

With the Lions wiped out and my Warhounds intact, I move them to block his other Lions, preserving my Warriors for combat. The Skullcrushers + Lord engages his last remaining unit (the Archers). The Chimera tries to engage his mages (who formed a unit!), needing 11+ to make it. I roll a total of 10 and barely miss the huge ~500 point bonus. I reckon that with 1W left, it'll probably die anyway. I charge the Prince with the Khorne Chariot (this time passing frenzy test, but to no avail as it's impossible to line up the BSB due to positioning. I figure that, as with the Chimera, it's very likely to die with only 1W left and if I'm lucky, the Prince goes down.

The Comet comes down and brings the Skullcrushers down 4W (to 2W left in total). The Lord is hit 4 times but no wounds are caused, many thanks to +1T blessing and a 4+ ward. The BSB suffers a single wound and the Chimera miraculously survives as it passes 3/3 regen saves!

In combat, I can't manage to kill enough Archers to break his Steadfast and am stuck. The Chariot scores 4 impact hits on the Prince, which is just enough to cause a single wound. In return, I'm wounded three times at S6, and I declare that this is the time I'll make up for the triple 1's I rolled in the Lord's first challenge: I roll the 3D6, needing three 6's... The first comes up a '6', the second a '6'... and the last a '5'! So close

This is the picture at the end of my T5:



This leaves an interesting option: in his T6 the Prince can flank the Skullcrushers and overrun into my Lord. Since this combat happens simultaneously, he won't get to strike at him then, but since he started the game he will get an extra round of combat in my T6. What he didn't consider was that I can counter-charge with the BSB and thus preserve the 700 points my Lord's now worth (which is an awful lot on 2W, even with T6 and 4+/4++). He decides to go for this, and flanks the Skullcrusher. His mages move away and there's no magic to worry about (for a change!) as I dispel Convergence. He kills the Chimera at last.

In combat however his Prince scores 3 wounds on the Skullcrusher. I'm not impressed and promptly pass all three 4+ saves. In return I butcher all the Archers, leaving the Prince on -4. Despite being in range of the BSB, he fails this test and is caught by the Skullcrushers. To add insult to injury, this left the Skullcrusher with a clear charge line to his Archmage, who is too close to the table edge to flee. I successfully pass the frenzy test (to avoid having to charge the 2+ ward-vs-fire-BSB) and charge the Archmage, killing him. With that, the game is over and I know I'm up waaay more points than the game would've suggested: between getting the Prince and the Archmage I have a bonus of 700 points. If things had gone really bad for me, he could've killed the Skullcrusher + Lord, netting him 1000 points instead of me gaining 700. This massive difference of 1700 naturally explains that risks were made towards the end (on his part, for me it's even more dangerous to stay in the open and receive magic punishment).

.::. Victory Points .::.

Counting up, I'm ahead by 1160 points. A 17-3 win to the Monsters of Chaos™!

Evaluation will follow soon(ish). In the meantime, C&C very welcome

[Elithmar]

Well obviously there was some bad and good luck on your part and on your opponent's. Still, that was a very nice trap you set up on turn 2, allowing you to get that combined charge on the lions later on. Well done on the win - you deserved it.

[Curu Olannon]

Well obviously there was some bad and good luck on your part and on your opponent's. Still, that was a very nice trap you set up on turn 2, allowing you to get that combined charge on the lions later on. Well done on the win - you deserved it.

Thanks! There was quite a bit of variance involved indeed, but it's all part of the game. In the end, a lot of my "bad luck" turned out to be good as well, for example the massive fluff of attacks I had against the Lions (resulting in me staying locked in combat and thus safe from his magic + shooting) and the Chariot's constantly failed frenzy tests, which eventually saw it get a very lucrative position.

As for the T2 "trap", it wasn't as much a trap as it was a necessity: I had to present him with a something he could reach for in order to get an optimal position in my T3. I knew he would most likely go for it, as he was in a really bad spot and if he had made the charge, it wouldn't be that bad. Making a 9+ on 2D6 is only 28%, and I figured this was an acceptable risk for me: it was basically a 72% chance to (most likely) win the game. Considering he would've eventually killed too much at range, at one point or another I would have had to go for something like this I think. I could've used Warhounds to block a corner, but between overruns or reform with regards to positioning it's not nearly as safe.

[John Rainbow]

An interesting couple of games Curu. Thanks for posting BatReps. I really enjoyed reading the second one as it seemed as though there was a lot more thought in movement and no combat until T4!

One of your earlier comments about the first turn really piqued my interest as it's something I'm dealing with at the moment too - I recently played 2 games v. the new WoC and the first turn was critical in each game for both of us, and for different reasons. As you've found out, you need to go first (more important against some lists in particular) in order to get your monsters into a position both to threaten the opponent and protect them from return fire. I've found that against the WoC monster mash (usually face Daemon Princes and Chimeras) that I need the first turn simply because I usually get one of my spells (Banishment) scrolled in T1 and then rely on doing some serious damage in T2 - a turn I don't necessarily get if the monsters make it into CC.

I also think this leads into a comment about the last HE list you played. It was an intriguing list as it is different but I'm not sure it's that good of a list when it comes down to it. With the two big lion blocks and lore choices, the list is very defensive in nature and wants to sit back and wait. Yet it has no real ranged threats to speak of other than the bolt thrower bow. Heavens is not necessarily the best lore for this list as it isn't particularly strong at range - comet can be avoided and the other missiles aren't that frightening. Compare this to the Coven for example and you have a list that can afford to sit back in such a position but which really needs the first turn against a dragon list. In the end, I don't really think this list stood a chance against your list and I think Heavens a particularly poor choice in conjunction with the other units/abilities of the list.

Looking back at your games then, if the Dwarfs had got the first turn then things could've turned out differently as there might've been more wounds on the dragon/chimera (although you placed them well) or crushers going pre-combat. This could've made the difference in the game - 1 more wound earlier on the dragon would no longer be busting up hammerers in CC in T4. In the second game against HE, if you had got the first turn your opponent's demise would have been all but assured to happen even sooner - he wouldn't be able to move up his units into the (clever) positions that he did and you would be able to dictate the movement phase.

When I eventually get round to posting my games against WoC you'll see that the first turn is crucial, almost to the point where getting it is the difference between winning and losing. I am finding it really interesting that with the new books, T1 is becoming more and more important - albeit dependent upon list choice.

[Curu Olannon]

Hey John, thanks for the input!

Indeed the last game felt very tactical: lots of movement to try and get board control and get the better of the situation.

As for first turn things, this is why I have repeatedly stressed the impact of the Skeinsliver. For a mere 25 points it truly is ridiculously flexible. I believe that when you play the Coven, you can deploy in a staggered formation (much like my opponent`s T1 moves placed his army) with the Lions and possible SMs at the edge of your zone and everyone else behind. Banishment can be boosted anyway, a small price for this tactical advantage, and the rest of the spells don`t require range. This way, against a Dragonlist, the Lions can be timewarped and this creates a HUGE no-fly zone, so even if he gets first turn you should be able to thoroughly affect his possible advances in T2 and T3: like this HE army from the last game, you can use swift reform as you please and thus keep having a very dangerous zone for the dragon to move into. With careful deployment, it shouldn`t be that hard: in fact it should be possible to deny the Dragon any good targets before T3 (barring a breath weapon) even if you don`t go first.

As for the list I was facing: it is incredibly hard to win against, simply because positioning is super-hard. While it doesn`t possess WTF-like ranged damage, it is still enough to threaten most armies and eventually kill off important stuff. Against armies which can outshoot it, the Lions and fighty Prince should be fine. As for Heavens, I agree, but if he had taken Chain Lightning instead of Comet or Blizzard, it would`ve been a lot more dangerous. I think I very well could`ve lost this match, with a little more luck on his bows + magic in the first couple of turns my flyers would`ve been way worse off. There will probably be a rematch in a couple of weeks time, so we`ll see what happens then

As for the Dwarf game, most flyers were hidden. He would`ve made more of an impact, but ultimately there are so many targets that it`s really hard to truly control, unless you`re just plain lucky

Looking forward to your own HE-WoC reports!

[rusty]

@Curu
I think you're onto something very important about deployment, board control and flyers. It's possible to hold off flyers for a long time with the right deployment and movement, as was demonstrated in your last game. I'll take notes for next time I'll face the MoC .

[Curu Olannon]

@Curu
I think you're onto something very important about deployment, board control and flyers. It's possible to hold off flyers for a long time with the right deployment and movement, as was demonstrated in your last game. I'll take notes for next time I'll face the MoC .

Depends on the flyer. In a lot of matchups getting it into combat is of paramount importance. Lots of S6 ASF stuff tends to change that, unless you`re a daemonprince of nurgle, fully tooled up

[Curu Olannon]

Some magic considerations with regards to the Monsters of Chaos list:
- I`m considering the Ruby Ring of Ruin instead of the Enchanted Shield + Relic Sword. Even with M5, I tend to use the Warriors in a relatively defensive role. Thoughts about this exchange?
- Packing Shadow Magic without any bounds prevent me from ever using more than 8 D6. Is this a big problem? Is switching lores and/or including the Ruby Ring something I should consider as important?

Other example setups include:
- Lvl 2 Fire with Ruby Ring of Ruin. Great for clearing chaff. If I can grab the flaming sword as well, it`s terrific. I bet I`ll miss miasma though, but then again: is this really something I can reliably get through?
- Lvl 2 Death with Ruby Ring. A variety of spells. Even with LD8, Spirit Leech can be tough to let through: all you need is a bit of luck and something really important will vanish completely. Also, lots of monsters have low LD in which case 8 is still pretty good

What are your thoughts? I`m currently leaning towards Shadow + Ruby Ring, but I`m open for ideas!

[Stormie]

I still really rate Death/Fire (Or Death/Firebeall in your case) so I'd highly recommend it.

First turn is definitely crucial with WoC, as there's no reason a flying DP shouldn't be in combat by turn 2 against any army. In my game vs Dwarfs he only made it because my opponent rolled so badly I might as well have been the one who went first...

[Curu Olannon]

I still really rate Death/Fire (Or Death/Firebeall in your case) so I'd highly recommend it.

First turn is definitely crucial with WoC, as there's no reason a flying DP shouldn't be in combat by turn 2 against any army. In my game vs Dwarfs he only made it because my opponent rolled so badly I might as well have been the one who went first...

The more I think about this, the more sense it makes. With a selection of 2 out of 6 from Death, I am pretty much guaranteed to grab one useful spell. The other can be swapped for Spirit Leech, which I believe is still quite powerful @LD8 to be honest. Furthermore, Spirit Leech + Ruby Ring give me some offensive power which might see me threaten chaff and monsters to a certain degree at range - not necessarily a bad thing.

Last but not least, the Shadow lore attribute is pretty useless right now, apart from when the Lord loses the Dragon. Death on the other hand can very well come in handy, at least to a bigger degree than Smoke and Mirrors I`ll try this out for the next game!

Another thought I´ve had is swapping the non-fiery chimera for 3 more Skullcrushers. Yes, their frenzy is a pain, but they are way more durable and have roughly the same damage output. Since frontage is not a premium with this list, increasing this for the same damage output likely won`t matter too much. So many choices!

[Fithvael]

Hi Curu,

This is my first post on this forum, I made this account especially so I could comment on your blog/posts.

I have read every page in the past 3 weeks (mostly during quiet worktime) and have been impressed by your dedication to write reports and your skill on the battlefield. You even inspired me to go back to painting and maybe even collecting again (High Elves ofcourse) awaiting the new book.

Only one problem, I have finished reading all pages now and am desperate for more adventures!

Keep them coming,

Best,

Fithvael

[Curu Olannon]

Hi Curu,

This is my first post on this forum, I made this account especially so I could comment on your blog/posts.

I have read every page in the past 3 weeks (mostly during quiet worktime) and have been impressed by your dedication to write reports and your skill on the battlefield. You even inspired me to go back to painting and maybe even collecting again (High Elves ofcourse) awaiting the new book.

Only one problem, I have finished reading all pages now and am desperate for more adventures!

Keep them coming,

Best,

Fithvael

Hey Fithvael, and welcome to Ulthuan

Thanks a lot for your feedback, it`s great that this blog can motivate more people to register, post and pick up Warhammer again!

For me, writing reports and analyzing the game is as much fun, at least sometimes, as playing the game itself. My girlfriend usually says that whatever I start doing, I get completely obsessed with. Warhammer is no exception. As with everyone else, I´m awaiting the new book and really hoping that it`ll be a good one. As far as I can tell, both WoC and DoC are a step in the right direction, which pretty much leave TK and OK as the only poor 8th ed books.

As for more adventures, I`m currently in Austria on a skiing vacation. I`ll be home in a couple of days and start playing and painting again. There`s a tournament coming up around early April which I intend to attend. It uses ETC restrictions, however I`m unsure of whether to bring HE or WoC. Regardless, the battles to get there will be detailed, and hopefully I can keep track of the games come tournament day as well. I often go back and read my own reports, and the ones I`ve read the most were from the Crusade tournament last year.

I have a new army concept that I`d like to try out. I was pondering whether to keep it secret or not, but I think that in the end, it`s highly unlikely that my opponents are even reading this blog carefully enough at all to get a significant advantage during tournament games. I need some more time to elaborate on the choices and rationale, but I`ll post up the list later tonight