Ulthuan

From the sequence of events it certainly looks like the dwarves were well played by Malekith. All the fuss about Druchii and Asur being the same contradicts the existence of Chaos Dwarves.

Ps. What's "Dhar" ?

dragonkingofthestars wrote:That just, sounds off.

Is there any reason given as to WHY the dwarfs felt like fighting the elves? I (and i think most people) thought that Dwarfs did not like elves because of the war of the beard, yet here we have evidence they were itching for a fight to START the war when previously they had been friends and allys.

I thought dwarfs hated that sort of thing, which is why the war of the beard was such a deal breaker. Any chance Malekith played both sides and slaughtered that elf city and just made sure that there were no one left to say 'it was elves that killed us'?

The majority of Dwarven kings didn't like the lands the elves were taking, they considered the entire old world theirs and the Elves as encroaching further into their lands. Sure, they were fine with the initial bit, but 2000 years of expansion and changes in various leaders. Plus they didn't see eye to eye with Elves in general. Thought they were arrogant, pompous and since many of them hadn't seen them in battle for centuries. Plus High Elves ride Dragons, which are considered evil by some Dwarves (since they steal gold and live in their mountains). And to Dwarves a Dragon is a Dragon is a Dragon.

Keep in mind that it took about two decades of Dark Elf aggravation to actually to get to a war. Gotrek Starbreaker didn't want to go to war initially until his son pushed the issue and destroyed a city. Also, Snorri Halfhand had... 'issues'.

Suriel wrote:From the sequence of events it certainly looks like the dwarves were well played by Malekith. All the fuss about Druchii and Asur being the same contradicts the existence of Chaos Dwarves.

Ps. What's "Dhar" ?

Dhar is Dark Magic.

To me, the perspectives of elves and dwarves are usually just that, propaganda for one side or the other. I really loved how they portrayed this in the 6th edition book ( in all 3 books, HE, DE and dwarfs) portraying their side as noble and fair and the other as cowards and monsters.

That said, dwarves are impetuous little bastards who need recompense for every little slight and High Elves are arrogant tall bastards who had total faith in the stupidest Phoenix King ever, who didn't just throw oil on the fire but kerosine...

Even today it's still fun to see one side defend themselves and try to make the other look bad. GW did the war of the beard juuuust perfect...

Interestingly, most of the books - apart from the 6E HE book - present it as basically being Caledor II's fault (after Malekith, of course) and most of the dwarf books also present it in much the same light. That said, I don't think any of the army book histories mentioned that the dwarfs destroyed an elven city before the ambassador even arrived, which makes Caledor II's actions much more understandable.

On the whole, though, the whole mess was the result of misunderstandings, diplomatic failures, and outright stupidity on both sides. The only measure by which one side or the other can really be said to have the moral high ground is that the Asur are willing to forgive while the Dawi are not - however, the dwarves see bearing grudges long after they're no longer relevant and taking them out on the grandchildren of the original perpetrators as a virtue, so from their perspective such magnanimity is meaningless.

To be fair to Caledor II, he wasn't going to wait for some Slayers to hijack a Dwarven Airship and have them crash it into the White Tower.

Musashi wrote:To be fair to Caledor II, he wasn't going to wait for some Slayers to hijack a Dwarven Airship and have them crash it into the White Tower.

Indeed. There was no White Tower at that time.
But I guess there was a lot of tension between the two nations that thought they had claim on Elthin Arvan by right or by conquer. It didn't take much to add enough fuel to begin the conflict.

You take stubborness mix it with hotheadness and pride...

And wars going to erupt.

It doesn't help that both of our races are also the extremes of those emotions.

I feel rather sorry for Caledor II to be honest, could you imagine trying to always live up to Caledor I?!

Malossar Dragonborne wrote: I feel rather sorry for Caledor II to be honest, could you imagine trying to always live up to Caledor I?!

And people wonder why Caledorians are quick to draw steel in their hot tempers. Every chance of glory whether it be a battle or duel, is an opportunity to step out from the Big shadows that always come from Caledor .... right mal? Haha we may have just picked a fight with... All the other kingdoms

One interesting tidbit from the new book is that Elven pride is partly a result of subtle Chaos corruption, manifesting in different ways among the different subraces.

This is making me wonder if the most famous attribute of the dwarves - the bearing of grudges - might also be a result of subtle Chaos corruption...

We don't need no chaos corruption to be proud - we saved the Asuryandamn world.

I wonder if Snorri Whitebeard knows about Malekith's threachery. If there's a dwarf's opinion I want to know, it's his.

Snorri died before the Sundering.

Malossar Dragonborne wrote:Snorri died before the Sundering.

QFT, he's long gone ^_^

You may also know him as Grombrindal, the White Dwarf.

According to my December 2005 copy of the same name, he pledged to return as vengeance for his people, when dwarves would be beset by enemies. None other than Malekith himself attended his death and funeral, listening to his dying words and swearing he'd remain loyal to everything he and Snorri stood and fought for.

(Didn't quite work that way, did it?)

Don't the Dawi say that about al their heroes/gods?

Elessehta of Yvresse wrote:Don't the Dawi say that about al their heroes/gods?

Except according to that same WD Snorri apparently did a Jesus and was the one to breach the gates of Tor Alessi.

I hate this dwarf more than most then...

Do you hate him for coming back to life or for taking Tor Alessi?

Taking Tor Alessi, and then not being gracious enough to stay dead.