10 man unit of DP - banner or not?

[grandalf]

Hi!
I need some advice here. I'm gonna play a 10 man unit of Dragon Princes. Ive only played with 5 man unit before. And no banner. I've used them as a flanking, supporting unit.
With 10 of them the tactics might have to change, and they will not be as expendable. Should I give them a banner?

Some advice would be much appreciated!

[SpellArcher]

Moved to Tactics forum.

SA

[pk-ng]

Generally yes.
As it's not longer a support unit and more of a combat unit. I would suggest giving either Banner of Swiftness (M10) or Razor Banner which are some of the more common options.

[John Rainbow]

I agree with pk-ng. A banner can be a big help and is definitely worth it on a 10 man unit. It is difficult to talk about this in isolation without the rest of the list however.

[Prince of Spires]

Depends on how you want to use them / which banners you have available for them / the rest of your list.

+1 CR can help winning combat, but I doubt winning bigger is a big advantage. Whatever you're charging is likely to be steadfast anyway. So winning by an extra point doesn't add much.

If there is a magical banner you feel enhances them then it is definitely worthwhile. Razor banner in my list usually goes on PG, so that's not available to them for me. But I can see how it adds to DPs. It makes a serious difference. Banner of swiftness I'm not too sure of. Does 2'' movement per turn really make that much difference? Especially with swiftstride charges. Rampager standard might be more beneficial to distance you move. Especially if you want to use them aggressively. I could even see lichbone pennant being worth it if you regularly find them targeted by magic. A 5+ ward vs magic for 15 points isn't a bad deal at all.

Rod

[Viale]

If you intend to have them operating far away from the general and/or your BSB, Standard of Discipline or The Gleaming Pennant might be two nifty low cost banners to consider.

[bloody nunchucks]

I would strongly consider using the Banner of swiftness, it can surprise an opponent and will make your charges more reliable. And it's easier to get into a better position. Also, magic resistance can be worth it, as soon as you save one model the banner pays for itself.

I would strongly consider either bumping the unit to 12 or 14 to run 6x2 or 7x2 to make the most of your attacks. Otherwise downgrade to nine so you can run 3x3 depending on what kind of unit you are sending them into.

Also, if you plan to flank with this unit, then a leadership banner may be usefull. As a unit of 10 DP fleeing or failing a charge against something scary will probably cost you the game.

[grandalf]

I took the Banner of Swiftness. I wanted to surprise my enemy... The result? In the first round of magic my DPs were an-ni-hi-lated by some chaotic spell! Next time I'll go for the Lichemasters pennant..

Thanks for all advice! A banner It'll be!

[Ladril Caledor]

Banner of Swiftness and Lichebone Pennant both seem like good options, can you have the best of both worlds?

The Dragon Prince Champion can take magic weapons and armour (up to 50 points). If I put the Spellshield on him, does the whole unit gain magic resistance 1?

The rules state that if a character with MR joins a unit, the whole unit also gains the MR. But the champion is technically not a character. The Spellshield rules refer only to the model gaining magic resistance. If the rules are taken literally, it seems only the champion has MR, but logic, item cost and the spirit of the rules suggest to me that the whole unit should get the boost.

[SpellArcher]

I'd say RAW the unit wouldn't benefit from the MR.

RAI it would.

[bloody nunchucks]

It would grant the unit MR. Same way Cadyryan does when he joins a unit. Both RAW and RAI, imho.

[SpellArcher]

But Caradryan's a Character and a DP champ isn't.

[Prince of Spires]

I'm with SA here. Rules are, unfortunately, pretty clear on this. Intended or not, a clear distinction is made between models with magic resistance and characters with magic resistance (see BRB p72):
A model with magic resistance gains a bonus to its ward save when saving against magical damage.
In addition to this, a character with MR joining a unit lets the whole unit benefit from magic resistance.

A champion != a character.

Rod

[SpellArcher]

I checked to see if there was some kind of unit upgrade default application, seems not.

Lichebone Pennant specifically mentions it covers the other models.

[grandalf]

You lost me on the abbreviations. What does RAW and RAI mean?

[SpellArcher]

The two approaches to interpreting rules.

Rules As Written means following them to the letter. So in this case the Champion is not a Character so doesn't lend his MR.

Rules as Intended means the spirit in which the rule was written. In this case that a model bearing MR should lend it. A proponent would say that the writer meant for the lending rule to cover all single models bearing MR but 'Character' was written, as the author forgot that a Champion might also be an MR bearer.

[Mr. Lucifer]

Personally on a ten man unit id be looking at full command and probably investing in a banner based on their role...

Flame banner for cheapness, +1ld banner for flanking duties in an infantry army away from General's ld bubble or possibly +1movement to speed them up.

Regardless of choice i think a banner in 10man units isn't a bad choice...

[HoS]

Did they unwrite the rule about unit champions being treated as a character in all circumstances? I know they used to be "treated as a character for all intents and purposes."

[pk-ng]

They were never "treated as a character for intents and purposes". Just that people assume there were characters. They are models with some similar rules to characters but are not character's themselves. Characters are all from the "Lords" or "Heroes" section or in some cases "name characters" especially from the Beastmen book.

[Botjer]

I've had som fun putting wailing banner or mask of eee on my dragonprinces.... worth the points? No idea, but funny.

[RE.Lee]

Who would you put the mask of Eee on? Its an enchanted item...

[Botjer]

On a character in the unit.

[20phoenix]

Are nobles/princes/annointed counted as characters or is it named characters that can apply MR?

[SpellArcher]

Are nobles/princes/annointed counted as characters

Yes they are.