2,500 Saphery/Lothern themed list

[Rainor]

After a long absence I have returned older, wiser, more experienced. And moving into bigger games. As always I can't even imagine playing a none Swordmasters list. I just have one problem. I can't decided on which Lord combination to go with. I have it narrowed down to four:

-Alarielle the Radiant and Loremaster
-Alarielle the Radiant and Korhil
-lvl 4 Life Archmage and Korhil
-lvl 4 High Magic Archmage and Anointed of Asuryan

Points are not an issue I've crunched the numbers and know for a fact I can field all these choice with the gear options I want. Usually Book of Hoeth, Fencer's Blade, a Golden Crown or two.

Opinions are always welcomed and appreciated.

Here's the list itself minus the Lords/Heroes choice

Lords
?

Heroes
"Khan" BSB Noble (162)
-Dragon Armor, Barded Eleven Steed, Shield
-Orge Blade, Battle Standard

Core:
Archers x12 [2x6 rank] (142)
-Light Armor, Musician

Archers x12 [2x6 rank] (142)
-Light Armor, Musician

Ellyrian Reavers x5 (105)
-Bows and Spears, Musician

Silver Helms x9 [2x5 rank] (237)
-Full command with Shields, (BSB Noble goes here)

Special:
Swordmasters of Hoeth x19 [3x7 rank] (327)
-Full Command with Banner of the World Dragon, (Lords/Heroes go here)

Swordmasters of Hoeth x10 [2x5 rank] (160)
-Full Command (Flanks the main block)

Swordmasters of Hoeth x10 [2x5 rank] (160)
-Full Command (Flanks the main block)

Shadow Warrios x10 [2x5 rank] (175)
-Shadow Walker with Reaver Bow

Rare:
Repeater Bolt Thrower (70)
Repeater Bolt Thrower (70)
Repeater Bolt Thrower (70)

[PGP]

I think you should take lvl1 metal with scroll and lvl4 high with tal. Of pres. and book. Bsb should take a dragon helm or enc. Shield. I'd combine the small masters to larger unit with fc+banner of dicipline. I'd get rid of the shadow warriors and second archers to get me a frostie and more reavers. Minimm size with bows are usually enough with reavers. Take 13 for archers as death toll panic resistance a bit increase. Small sisters help you with flaming attacks. So

Lvl4 high, top, boh
Lvl 1-2 metal with d.scrol and ring of fury
Bsb, silver helm gear, o.blade, dragon helm
13 archers, mus
2-3x5 reavers, bows
9 helms, shields, fc
21 sm, fc, botwd
21 sm, fc, b. Of dicip.
3 rbt
5 sisters
Frostie

[Rainor]

You've given me something to think about with the BSB Noble and the Sisters (I can use those models as both Sisters and Shadow Warrios units since I used both sets of parts.) Unfortunately I'm working with all the Fantasy models I own. And most, by "most" I mean, all of my budget after bills is going to school so other then the Prince on a Griffon and 10 Sea Helms from the Island of Blood this is what I got. So have to see what I can do with what I got.

[Rainor]

Decided to stick with the original fluff I had in mind when I made this list. The Shaow Warriors ad Sisters are pretty much interchangeable depending on who/what I'm going against.

Comments, Suggestions welcome as always.

Lords
"Rainor" High Magic Archmage lvl 4 (320)
-Book of Hoeth, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Fencer's Blade
"Dagon" Anointed of Asuryan (275)
-Gaint Blade, Enchanted Shield

Heroes
"Khan" BSB Noble (166)
-Dragon Armor, Barded Eleven Steed, Shield
-Ogre Blade, Battle Standard, Dragon Helm

Core:
Archers x12 [2x6 rank] (142)
-Light Armor, Musician

Archers x12 [2x6 rank] (142)
-Light Armor, Musician

Ellyrian Reavers x5 (105)
-Bows and Spears, Musician

Silver Helms x9 [2x5 rank] (237)
-Full command with Shields, (BSB Noble goes here)

Special:
Swordmasters of Hoeth x19 [3x7 rank] (327)
-Full Command with Banner of the World Dragon, (Archmage and Anointed go here)

Swordmasters of Hoeth x10 [2x5 rank] (160)
-Full Command (Flanks the main block)

Swordmasters of Hoeth x10 [2x5 rank] (160)
-Full Command (Flanks the main block)

Rare:
Repeater Bolt Thrower (70)
Repeater Bolt Thrower (70)
Repeater Bolt Thrower (70)
Sister's of Averlorn x 10 [2x5 rank] (140)

Total=2384

[Rainor]

An alternative list I came up with to use my previously unused Prince/Noble on Griffon. The Griffon offers a nice juicy target. One that's hard to ignore. Just curious as to what would be more points efficient. The Prince or Noble. Given how the Prince sinks 375 points into himself vs the Noble's 295 with the exact same equipment.

I could save LOTS of points proxying the Griffon as a Great Eagle instead. True I loose a great combat beast but the Prince/Noble become must more resilient (+1T +1W). Just trying to get the most bang for my points.

I going to have to defend my decision for the 2 smaller Swordmaster units. They serve to well protecting the flanks of the Archmage's unit as well as serving well as flankers themselves.

Here's the list see what ya'll think.

Lords
"Rainor" Archmage: Life lvl 4 (320)
-Book of Hoeth, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Fencer's Blade
"Dagon" Prince (375)
-Dragon Armor, Griffon: Swiftsense
-Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield

Heroes
"Khan" BSB Noble (142)
-Dragon Armor, Barded Eleven Steed, Shield, Lance
-Sword of Might, Battle Standard

Core:
Archers x12 [2x6 rank] (142)
-Light Armor, Musician

Archers x12 [2x6 rank] (142)
-Light Armor, Musician

Ellyrian Reavers x5 (105)
-Bows and Spears, Musician

Silver Helms x9 [2x5 rank] (237)
-Full command with Shields, (BSB Noble goes here)

Special:
Swordmasters of Hoeth x20 [3x7 rank] (340)
-Full Command with Banner of the World Dragon, (Archmage goes here)

Swordmasters of Hoeth x10 [2x5 rank] (160)
-Full Command

Swordmasters of Hoeth x10 [2x5 rank] (160)
-Full Command

Rare:
Repeater Bolt Thrower (70)
Repeater Bolt Thrower (70)
Repeater Bolt Thrower (70)
Sister's of Averlorn x 10 [2x5 rank] (140)

Total=2473

[PGP]

Well, the griffon is not that good. Asf is great, but it gets shot fast. How about you take a loremaster as you are trying to play a saphery list. Try a little bit non-used combo shadow lvl4 and loremaster. I think you can construct this easily with your models. I still think you should take two larger swordmasters. Do not pre-place your chars, design the lists so that there are multiple ways for placing the chars

2500 pts
Loremaster, book, sword of might, wyrm shield, crown of alc.
lvl 4 shadow (or usual high), tal. of pres., dispel scroll, (with high obsidian trinket might be good, if enough points 25% point hero/lord battles, this can be shadow switched nicely with other chars)
BSB noble, ha, reaver bow, potion of strength, charmed shield, halberd
24 archers, FC
5 reavers, bows
2x5 helms, shields (these can be played like reavers or swordmaster combat flankers)
20ish sm, fc, botwd (I am thinking 7x3 or 6x3)
20ish sm, fc, dicipline banner (ld 10 general)
3 rbt
2x5 sisters (these are better splitted to widen the flammable arrows)

[Rainor]

First let me say thanks to the comments thus far. Each as given me some food for thought.

Going to have to change this thread title to Saphery/Lothern themed list. Why? I was popping through the threads here and found a few lists that inspired me. Combining those with the original Fluff I had dreamed up with this list here's what I got:

Lords: Commanders of the Errant Wind
"Rainor"
Archmage: High Magic lvl 4 , Book of Hoeth, Fencer's Blade, Talisman of Protection (320)
"Dagon and Stormchaser"
Prince: Dragon Armor, Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Protection, Griffon: Swiftsense (420)

Heroes: First Officer
"Khan"
Lothern Sea Helm, Bow, BSB: Standard of Discipline (144)

Core: Ship's Crew
Lothern Sea Guard x20 [4x5 rank] (270)
-Full Command, Shields

Lothern Sea Guard x19 [4x5 rank] (258)
-Full Command, Shields

Ellyrian Reavers x5 (105)
-Bows and Spears, Musician

Special: The Specialists
Swordmasters of Hoeth x20 [3x7 rank] (340)
-Full Command with Banner of the World Dragon

Swordmasters of Hoeth x18 [3x6 rank] (284)
-Full Command, Razor Standard

Rare: The Gun Crews
Repeater Bolt Thrower x3 (210)

Sisters of Averlorn (140)

Total=2491

I like the Sea Guard do to the versatility I get with them. No work required given that I can have the front ranks made up of the Sea Guard from the Island of Blood set and the rear lines made from my older out of print Archers "Drawing their bows to fire while the front ranks guard" formation. I know the debates about the Griffin but I've got the model and I think if anything it'll be a shot magnet for a couple of rounds before it dies. Haven't got the Silver Helms like I originally planned, my insurance bill came in and sucked the Calvary budget out the window .

[SpellArcher]

The first tactical issue I can see is that the Griffon is fast and the rest of the army is more suited to sitting and shooting. Maybe hide him if you can and jump out when the enemy closes. Though he might do a better job on foot in this list. I don't think Life is the best fit here because the list needs to put pressure on at range and it lacks super-high strength attacks. Shadow would really help the LSG out because S3 will do little without buffing. High would let you buff one unit of Swordmasters with the Shield. Hand of Glory helps the LSG shooting and SM combat, Apotheosis can heal the Griffon etc.. I'd consider spending all of the BSB's magic item allowance on defence or he will die in combat.

The LSG I feel would be better in a single Horde unit of around 30, they all get to shoot and attack then and are more resilient in combat. I'd get more Reavers to complete Core as you need more redirectors. Ideally I would swap out thd second unit of Swordmasters for PG. Characters like High Archmage and foot Prince/Anointed can help them out.

[Rainor]

The first tactical issue I can see is that the Griffon is fast and the rest of the army is more suited to sitting and shooting. Maybe hide him if you can and jump out when the enemy closes. Though he might do a better job on foot in this list. I don't think Life is the best fit here because the list needs to put pressure on at range and it lacks super-high strength attacks. Shadow would really help the LSG out because S3 will do little without buffing. High would let you buff one unit of Swordmasters with the Shield. Hand of Glory helps the LSG shooting and SM combat, Apotheosis can heal the Griffon etc.. I'd consider spending all of the BSB's magic item allowance on defence or he will die in combat.

The LSG I feel would be better in a single Horde unit of around 30, they all get to shoot and attack then and are more resilient in combat. I'd get more Reavers to complete Core as you need more redirectors. Ideally I would swap out thd second unit of Swordmasters for PG. Characters like High Archmage and foot Prince/Anointed can help them out.

Yeah High Magic is probably what I'll be using the most with this list just haven't gone and edited the list yet. I'll do that now....OK done. The movement buff High Magic offers from Hand of Glory and Walk Between Worlds will defiantly help out with mobility although I will be using Shadow Magic from time to time: changing it up so my usual opponents don't get too adapted to my stratagems.

I have been thinking about giving the BSB just a plain standard and giving him something like Armor of Destiny/Armor of Fortune/Dragonhelm not sure which yet.

Now assuming that I do combine the LSG into one big block what would be the best way to arrange it? 6x5 5x6? 10x3 doesn't seem worthwhile for the numbers.

Now for the models I have, and the fact my budget may be tight very soon, I'm going to have to pass on the Phoenix Guard. Unless my opponent lets me proxy one unit of Swordmasters as PG.

As for heavy armor/toughness I'm not to worried about it. The people I play against run mostly Skaven, Orks, Lizardmen, Tomb Kings. While I'll have to recheck I don't believe those particular armies run a lot in terms of heavy armor. High Toughness yes. Thus the Bolt Throwers, the Griffon and Prince with Ogre Blade. Arcane Unforgiving can help out here too: spam the ever loving crap out of it.