Ulthuan

Ulthuan, Home of the Asur
It is currently Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:07 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1630 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 ... 55  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 463
Location: ireland
Curu Olannon wrote:
Thus, to win vs them as High Elves you need to engage an isolated unit and utterly destroy it before moving on. As you point out, Beastmen have access to quite a lot of chaff and distractors, so this is easier said than done.



this.

also your force concentration point in your summary is spot on. I find the dragon/cav lists especially are all about picking a point and obliterating it in one combat. in my mind im always thinking, what medium sized unit can I crush and use as a gateway to the backfield with my cav, blow a hole in my opponents line and present threats then from multiple angles. force my opponent to make hard choices.
With 2 big flyers, 1 cav bus and 1 medium sized cav unit, I have 4 fast moving threats that can change their point of attack very fast(super fast with walk between worlds)

_________________
death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain

do an rpg personality test, im from Ireland and I get...

[CENTER]Image[/CENTER


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:22 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
@SpellArcher - I see people still sticking to the good ol` WL but I truly think their time has passed. They are just so underwhelming. Stubborn helps a lot when playing defensively, but in a singles tournament setting you need units that can march offensively. I`m not saying they can`t work, but I just don`t think they`re anywhere near as good as they were in our last book, and hence the PG will often be a superior choice.

I`m interested to hear SD is making a bigger impact in scenes where TLoS is being played. How did they fare?

@sparkytrypod - I remember a game I had in a tournament-style league years ago where my opponent played a VC bus list. I managed to land BSB + WL + Dragon on them. It wasn`t pretty.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:22 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
No rest for the wicked! Time to start playing Dragonlists again ;)


.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Empire (ETC comp) .::.

My list:
Prince on Star Dragon: Dragonhelm, Star Lance, Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Shield = 598
Noble BSB on Barded Steed, Banner of the World Dragon, Dragon armour, Shield, Lance = 178
Noble on Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Ogre Blade = 134
Mage L2 on Steed, Scroll = 155
Mage L2 on Steed = 130
Characters = 1195

16 Silver Helms, Full Command & Shields = 398
5 Reavers = 80
5 Reavers, bows (swap) = 85
5 Reavers, champ = 90
Core = 653

3 RBT = 210
Frostheart = 240
2 Eagles = 100
Rare = 550

Army total = 2398

His list:
Grand Master, General, Runefang, Charmed Shield, Luckstone, Potion of Speed = 255
LVL 4: Life, steed, Scepter, Crown

LVL1: Heavens, steed, scroll = 102
Captain: BSB, barded steed, FPA, GW, dawnstone, tots

16 IC Knigths: FC, Decipline = 445
6 Knights, FC = 162

5 Demis: musician, standard, Gleaming pennant = 315
Great Cannon = 120
Great Cannon = 120
Hurricanum

Steam Tank = 250

// Pre-battle thoughts and deployment //

Empire is a tough matchup for a Dragonlist, but without Light it`s not terrible. I have to beware Dwellers to not blow my scroll too early on. My thoughts going into this was to use my amazing chaff advantage to force advantageous fights and stay clear of the stubbornbus until I could combo-charge it without fear of being countered, or simply ignore it. With a total of 5 chaff units, I could also put pressure on his artillery, I was hoping.

Spells saw me roll up double drain, apotheosis and walk between worlds. He got Earthblood, Throne, Flesh, Dwellers. This guy is used to playing Tomb Kings (I faced him in my last game before Indian Summer), so he told me he considers Dwellers a killing blow vs my Dragon, which I can understand given his massive use of Sphinxes.

The chaff drops allowed me to place the monsters after all his artillery was down, a central hill provided me with all the cover I would need.

Image

With +1, he went first.

// Emp T1 //

Stank moves up towards my bus. Small knights stay behind to protect the cannon. Demis move slow as well. Magic sees me dispel Throne, no other spells were really relevant at this point.

Shooting: Stank misfires and takes a wound. A cannon kills a Repeater, the other misfires and blows up.

Image

// HE T1 //

His stank is placed so that he cannot pivot towards my Dragon if I go up as much as I can. I could barely get out of sight of the other cannon as well, but had to leave a tiny bit of the base which he could hit. Magic sees him dispel Walk Between Worlds and my other spells are useless. Shooting sees the last 2 RBT put 2W on the Stank, so he`s now 50-50 to misfire.

Image

// Emp T2 //

He commits the Knights and start wheeling Demis. Stank moves a little further up. Bus reforms to go into Lifebloom range of the Stank, but he forgets actually moving them after the reform. Magic sees me dispel Flesh to Stone on the stank. He lands Iceshard on the Dragon. Shooting sees the Cannon fail to hit my Dragon.

Forgot to take a picture

// HE T2 //

Dragon into 7W-Stank, Phoenix up to the wall, Reavers with champ towards cannon, Reavers conga-blocking demis and bus, Eagles move up to be useful later, shooty Reavers move to block bus as well. Magic saw double Drain remove Iceshard (first was dispelled). Shooting saw RBTs kill a Demi. Combat saw Stank down to 4W.

Image

// Emp T3 //

Double charge on conga-blocking Reavers. Knights move towards RBT. Demis charge Reavers as well. Magic sees my scroll go, but he gets one spell through and the STank is lifebloom`d back to 5W. Shooting sees his Cannon have a tough choice: try and grapeshot my Reavers or try a perfect bounce to avoid the wall blocking the Phoenix. He chose the first and dealt 3W, panic was passed. In combat the Stank goes down to 3W and the Reavers disappear. He reforms.

Image

// HE T3 //

Reavers charge Cannon, Phoenix moves to his rear, bus reforms and backs a bit to stay clear of demis, Eagle blocks bus in case Dragon kills Stank. 2nd Eagle lands nearby, ready to help out if need be later on. Magic sees his scroll come out to dispel WBW, though to be honest I don`t know what he was afraid of. RBTs kill another demi. In combat the Star Dragon knocks down the stank. Reavers kill cannon and reform towards center.

Image

// Emp T4 //

Knights charge RBT but 2 fail DT and they panic, fleeing away. Demis move up to threaten my bus. Magic, I dispel throne with all my dice and he Dwellers my Dragon, killing the Prince but "failing" his killing blow, luckily for me. Shooting - there`s nothing left, which is a relief to me.

Image

// HE T4 //

The Demis force me to deal with his 2 combat blocks one at a time, given their position they can mutually support eachother. I start off with a charge on them from the Dragon and he flees. I then decide to send everything into the bus: let the grind begin! Magic sees Drain go through on him. Shooting sees RBTs deal a wound or two to the Demis I believe. Chaff ran after Demis to block them out T6 if need be.

In combat I kill a lot, including his BSB who made way to my Frostheart (who was S7). Lucky for me, but he holds on stubborn. He does no significant damage.

Image

// Emp T5 //

Both units rally and we go to magic. I stop throne with all dice as my monsters hurt him on 2s anyways and I don`t count on the rest doing a lot. He gets regen up as well, but I still win combat and he holds on stubborn.

Image

My BSB eventually rolls snake eyes from the BOTWD, but the Frostie and SD grind so well that he eventually loses his crown and fails his break test (at this point, in the very last turn of the game, he had only 3 models left in the unit: L2 mage, Grand Master, Champion). I catch him and the game is over. His Knights were chaffed out T6 and RBT reduced his Demis to 1 model, giving me points for them. Given the demise of his Grand Master and the bus in T6, it`s a 20-0 victory to the High Elves!

// Evaluation //

I managed to execute my plan very well this game, which was a huge relief. My opponent is very solid with his TK but this is one of his first games with Empire so he made a few mistakes which I was able to capitalize on easily: abandoning the cannon with the small knights early on gave me complete board control by T3.

I said previously that I was looking to go back to my initial list designs when I wrote this list, and boy did that pay off: the 5 chaff units this game were absolutely brutal. He had no ways of dealing with them (fairly typical for Empire and their biggest weakness in my opinion) and they just completely shut him down 24x7.

One of my main lessons from Indian Summer was the importance of skipping the early aggressive spells from High Magic in favour of having more combat-worthy spells. That lesson was worth its weight in gold as doubling up on Drain Magic allowed me to largely negate the advantages of Life. Furthermore, Apotheosis saved the Phoenix which ended the game on 1W and helped providing the kills and CR necessary to breaking him.

The Star Dragon is back and I`m thoroughly enjoying playing it! On that note, I would like to point out that in the now-popular discussion of Flamespyre vs Star Dragon, this game would`ve been completely different without the biggest gribbly we can get our hands on: I could not have sent it into the Stank and expect it to kill it anytime soon, nor could I have sent it into a grind without the rider vs Knights with so many buffs and potentially disastrous damage output.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:33 pm 
Offline
Something Cool

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:21 pm
Posts: 2309
Location: Northern, California USA
So my question is when is he going to burn his cannons Ina tiralya fire to sacrifice them to the dice gods? I think you got a little lucky here with the cannons never achieving much it must be nice in etc comp where they're not as worrisome!

_________________
Ptolemy wrote:
Im not above whoring myself for a good cause. ;)


Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:42 pm 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12715
Location: Otherworld
Curu, my third opponent had 2x24 Lions, mini light-council, some chaff and archers. My slightly sub-par WE army went down 8-12 but it was a game. He actually placed below me.

Game 4 I versed SD, 3 x Frostheart, 2 RBT, 3x10 Archers, 14 Helms + WD BSB. Tough match-up but I self-destructed, Moonstoning my lvl4 too close to a losing combat, he won, reformed and took my bunker off. Only hope, magic, gone. Went down 20-0. That was on table 11 so he probably did quite well, about 10th possibly.

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:55 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
@Malossar Dragonborne - The first cannon blowing up really wasn`t a big deal. He couldn`t target anything but RBTs and the way I landed the Dragon T2 he wouldn`t have been able to shoot it anyways. Furthermore my Reavers would`ve reached him T2 or T3. The Stank blowing up meant he missed one shot at my bus, but this was hardly relevant either. The real deal here is SLoS, which actually makes it viable to take a Dragon as on planet bowling ball aka TLoS it will just die in every single game when facing 3 cannons.

@SpellArcher - The Lion list you`re describing might perform well against lists that are forced to push against it, but what about lists that push too hard or lists it has to push against? How many war machines are common in your meta these days?

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:08 pm 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12715
Location: Otherworld
The armies with cannon all take them Curu but there were 6 Ogres, 6 Daemons, 1 Dwarf, 4 Empire, 4 Skaven/72, less than 1/3. Also, the TO ruled that elves would not re-roll to hit vs Lions, which complicated things.

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:03 am
Posts: 86
Thanks for all the reports. Great to read, as always.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:36 am
Posts: 11
wo, just wow =D> great battle!

we must understand that flame is great for holding points, its easier to make a needed draw,

again, grats, and i w8 for more as always ;]

regards

_________________
Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:24 am 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
@SpellArcher - Ogres and Daemons aren`t nearly as bad as 1 cannon isn`t nearly the same as a battery. If they take 2 however, it`s a different story entirely. Daemons also have flaming shots so you can usually preserve points by having the Dragonhelm and send the Prince into a BOTWD-unit, should the Dragon perish. Dwarfs - 1 army isn`t something you can really care about among 72. Empire seems to be less popular with you than I have seen recently (we had 7/36 at Indian Summer I believe). Overall it`s not too bad and you could easily be lucky enough to run through the entire tournament without running into a hard counter.

@gaz - thanks :)

@anorexia - Indeed ETC teamplay is completely different. I do believe the stubborn crown is better for this setting as well. The difference with our team tournament is that we have to average 15bp per player each game to max out our score, which is a far cry from 12.5. Also, while the Flamespyre makes Empirematchups harder, it certainly makes other matchups easier. I have a 2k uncomped tournament in October where I intend to take it, since you can fit an Anointed with Giant Blade + Enchanted shield @ 500 points, so I will basically use it to emulate my 2.4k SD list ;)

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:35 pm 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12715
Location: Otherworld
Absolutely Curu. I only had to play one cannon army (Ogres). He had two but I dealt with them quickly, I feel WE's have excellent tools here. One is no issue.

Have you considered taking a unit of eagles to screen the Dragon?

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:48 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
I agree that Cannons are a minor problem at worst for WE. I have considered Eagle-screens, but dedicating a whole unit seems a bit excessive. I can, of course, from time to time use one of my 2 to do so, or even put the Frostheart in the way. I`m surprised cannons are so little used in a TLoS meta whereas the tournaments here seem to be bristling with Empire in particular. I can understand that people don`t enjoy taking Dwarfs to tournaments as they rarely score big points vs strong players and are rather static (boring?) to play, but OK, DoC and Empire can most definitely build very good pushing lists with cannon-support.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:00 pm 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12715
Location: Otherworld
I feel it's down to the popularity of elves Curu. There were more elf lists than cannon lists for example.

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:06 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
Yeah that makes sense. DE and HE are really popular here, WE have yet to catch on, which I think is very likely to be because of some really hard counters for them which some of the top players here frequently take, e.g. multiple super-warded WoC characters @T5.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:28 pm 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12715
Location: Otherworld
My last game was vs the Unkillable Disc Lord, 2 Chimerae, 2 characters on Monstrous Beasts with 4+ Wards and 1+/2+ AS. Couldn't touch the Lord but got both Chimerae and then redirected twice (Branchwraith) and shot off the 1+ guy with Amber Spear & Waywatchers/Hagbane. Treeman and Curse of Anraheir got the 2+ BSB.

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:30 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
I`m not saying it`s impossible, just that it`s an uphill battle where, if equally skilled players clash, the WoC general is expected to win big. Likewise I believe most OnG lists are very hard counters to High Elves, yet a stronger player can overcome this.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:51 pm 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12715
Location: Otherworld
I'll take that as a compliment!

:)

Most WE lists don't have a Treeman or Amber Spear, two things I've found very effective vs WoC. I wouldn't fancy my chances against a full-on DP list TBH. What do the lists you have in mind look like Curu?

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:09 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
2nd place @Indian Summer went to the Norwegian WoC ETC player with the same list he`s taken to Novi Sad:

Quote:
Chaos Lord on Disc of Tzeentch: general, Mark of Tzeentch, Scaled Skin, Flaming Breath, halberd, shield, Armour of Destiny, Crown of Command, Obsidian Trinket, 413
Chaos Sorceror: lvl 2, Tzeentch, Mark of Tzeentch, Chaos Familiar, Spellshield, Talisman of Endurance, 235
Exalted Hero on Barded Daemonic Mount: bsb, Mark of Tzeentch, Burning Body, halberd, Talisman of Preservation, Charmed Shield, 261

10 Chaos Warriors: FCG, Mark of Tzeentch, shields, halberds, Blasted Standard 255
3x Chaos Chariot: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x 115

6 Chaos Knights: Standard, Musician, ensorcelled weapons, Banner of Swiftness, 293
3 Skullcrushers of Khorne: Standard, Musician, ensorcelled weapons, 254
4 Skullcrushers of Khorne: Standard, Musician, ensorcelled weapons, Gleaming Pennant, 337
Total: 2393


So basically the T5 3++ stubborn lord runs straight up to wherever he`s needed to block off something important. Vs WE this is kind of a moot point I suppose, but against a lot of other stuff in the meta it`s ridiculously good. The mage stays with the Warriors who shields the Lord during deployment and BSB for T1 maybe, depending on how much speed is needed. The Chariots and cavalry all move up and take up pretty much half the table length, making it very hard to play straight-up against this list. If you can get a refused flank chances are you`ll be better equipped to deal with them. I`m not sure what he met apart from Dark Reaper`s Dark Elves (which he beat 20-0 in game 5), but he ended up with nearly 80bp. It`s a lot scarier on the table than it looks on paper, the sheer speed and number of 1+ wounds that makes it hard to deal with. He plays WE as well and claims they are one of the easiest matchups for him. It`s worth noting that there is no scroll in this list, but then again what are you going to cast that`ll hurt him, really?

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:22 pm 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12715
Location: Otherworld
Yeah, that's a lot of armour to get through. You think "Chaos Knights?" but it's all 1+ saves isn't it? Amber Spear would be useful here but there are little touches like the Obsidian Trinket that shut down certain options. In my game the Lord got sucked into an existing combat with the Treeman and took too long to kill him. I guess he should be heading straight for my big unit of Wild Riders though.

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:44 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
Yeah it`s kind of hard to evaluate a game without a report, but it sounds like your opponent got tricked into playing your game instead of his own. When you have something as scary as a mobile 3++ chaos lord, locking him down is the best you can do, assuming what`s locking him down isn`t an important unit to have in play. A Treeman sounds like the right answer here ;) Knights are all 1+ yes and with M8 they arrive sooner than you`d think.

---

I`ve updated some long overdue posts on the first page, check out these links for High Elf Army Book analysis, current list and rationale:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=45081&p=808512#p808512
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=45081&p=808514#p808514

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:58 pm 
Offline
Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12715
Location: Otherworld
Treeman got buffed up to T8 & Lifebloomed too (Branchwraith was fabulous this game). I might have got more than a draw had my best unit not got run over by a Khorne Chariot that rolled far too many 6's.

First page sounds interesting, I'll take a look.

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:19 am
Posts: 104
I play star dragons almost exclusively so having you back at it Curu has me pretty stoked. I love the new list summary for it and really want to try a cav approach. I currently run units of archers plus 2 units of reavers in core and agree about the utility of the reavers, and archers definitely have a place although it means if a cannon can take out my frosty the star dragon can struggle with few other combat threats. Playing in Australia means most of the tournaments i go to are panel comp so i get to try out weirder stuff with it and not get punished too much and i honestly rate dragon mages. You can't treat the sun dragon like a combat unit as with only 4 s5 attacks it struggles but it's great for the mobile fireball and for clean up duty. Plus more breath weapons.

I've got a 3k closed lists toure coming up and was wondering how you would kit the SD with no real points limit? At the moment I'm thinking Talisman of Preservation, Star Lance, Dragonhelm, OTS plus a lion cloak. I think OTS is a must have, especially in closed lists but I'm sure I'm missing something that would be amazing to take at 3k

_________________
Fervent dragon addict and Australian warhammer enthusiast
@THR1LLHELM


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:04 am 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
@SpellArcher - T8 is nothing to laugh at, very few things in Warhammer are capable of dealing with this effectively.

@THRILLHELM - What does "panel comp" mean? I think the main problem with the Sun Dragon is how to take advantage of its magical potential. Flaming Sword of Rhuin is best used on a ranged unit, but I don`t think you`re likely to take one with this setup. I could be wrong though.

SD @3k is not something I would know how to equip. I would still prioritize the 2++ from the Crown I think and TOTS is a must. Maybe TOTS, Crown, Star Lance, Armour of 5++, Dragon Armour? It`s fairly expensive and you don`t really get a whole lot more than the cheap-as-nails build, but I really think Crown is essential. If you don`t find Crown to be this vital I think your build looks strong, you can`t ask for more than 2+/4++ alongside TOTS and Star Lance really ;)

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:19 am
Posts: 104
Panel comp means all the lists are marked by a panel that results in you getting a score (usually between 1 and 6) applied to your army. Then the games are played using a standard 20-0 system and the final result is modified by the difference between your comp scores (or half of it). There's obviously variations but that's the core of it. When it works it means softer armies can be viable but obviously it's hugely subjective. To be honest I prefer things like hard caps or Swedish comp purely because they are transparent and you know what you are getting but I love hammer either way.

I think you're right about the SD build. I'm tempted to just take the cheap one that fits into 2400 and use it to buy more troops. In regards to the DM though I generally run my core as a solid unit of archers (21ish) another unit of 15 archers and 2 units of reavers. This is partly due to not having enough SH models yet to run a large bus and partly because I think shooting core is great at the moment, except of course against 1+ spam empire and a lot of WoC builds. This gives a very viable target for flaming sword, a must dispel for anyone running chimeras, abombs etc, which hopefully would allow the fireball through. It works great combined with the dragons breath weapon too although it's fairly hard to pull off if you don't have any other threatening magic that turn.

Anyway, after some play testing I'll probably throw my list up for the forum to review. It's fairly left field at the moment but can definitely chase big wins.

_________________
Fervent dragon addict and Australian warhammer enthusiast
@THR1LLHELM


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:20 am 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
Never heard of such a comp system before. It sounds pretty biased to me, which is never a good thing (I think hard comp systems are biased enough as is already, but at least you know the rules).

Shooting core - 21 Archers with the mandatory musician is 220 points. Assuming you want 3 units of Reavers, we`re looking at ~460 points of core before we`ve added any Silver Helms. With 600-650 points going into core for 2400 point games, this doesn`t leave enough for a proper bus for the BSB, which means he`s either looking to take another mount (which you don`t have points for) or going on the ground (which is just bad). An alternative is taking the BOTWD on a special unit, for example Dragon Princes, but this eats into your rare points (with lords and heroes maxed you have 600 points to spend on rare and special) which is poor in my opinion because you`ll lack either RBTs, Eagles or the Frostheart, neither of which I`m particularly fond of leaving home with: doubly so bearing in mind that Dragon Princes are yet another S3 unit. At 3k the scene might be different, but with the hero points available here I can see some truly awesome opportunities -IF- you leave the Dragonmage at home. How about 3 Light Wizards with 2 Nobles in a bus of Silver Helms? You can afford all the things you have to compromise @2.4k - Crown of Command, Power Stone, Dispel Scroll, BOTWD, Ogre Blade. The joy :D While Archers certainly have matchups where they`re good (pinging Sphinxes is one of my favourites), Silver Helms taken as a bus are always useful: if nothing else they`re points preserving. In certain matchups (quite a few, actually) 21 Archers are just 220 points doing next to nothing, frequently giving up their points as well. Flaming Sword of Rhuin is a great spell, I just don`t see it synergizing well with a Star Dragon list.

Really looking forward to seeing your list. 3k is just an entirely new ballpark that I`m not familiar with :)

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:37 am 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
I assume that quite a few readers of this blog don`t necessarily frequent other parts of Ulthuan, so I`ll ask you to check out this thread and cast your vote viewtopic.php?f=66&t=67052 ;)

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:19 am
Posts: 104
Believe it or not I've actually just been running the list without a BSB at 2400. With careful spacing it's been going fine. The only things that fail are archers and they don't worry me. The left over points after DM go towards a metal or heavens mage. At 3k I'm getting a bit weird, running a seahelm BSB in skycutter plus 3 level 2s. Because it's closed lists there'll be some cool sneaky item opportunities. I'm play testing 1 metal and 2 high at the moment but I think a mini coven might be the money play. At the very least I'm thinking the high mages need horses.

_________________
Fervent dragon addict and Australian warhammer enthusiast
@THR1LLHELM


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:30 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
Yeah well I don`t think I`d ever run without a BSB ^^ Even though LD10 is great, you *will* fail tests every now and then. When you have a 700vp+ model on the table, the last thing you want to have happen is for said model to go running away. Also, when faced with Doom and Darkness, Skulls of the Foe, Hellcannons etc the value of a re-roll multiplies a lot.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:19 am
Posts: 104
It's not ideal, I'll definitely admit that. But without a silver helm bus (which i don't yet have the models for) I don't have a realistic option for him apart from an eagle. It evolved over various comp packs and I originally took it as a joke before doing really well. I normally run it when I'm allowed to take Caradryan on Ashtari as it gives me magic + a hero monster.

Anyway, looking forward to more SD BRs

_________________
Fervent dragon addict and Australian warhammer enthusiast
@THR1LLHELM


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:14 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
Next game is tomorrow vs Dwarfs ;)

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1630 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 ... 55  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group