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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:58 pm 
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Mounted character conversions are rapidly nearing completion. I hope I can finish them tomorrow:

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 11:43 pm 
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From what I can tell, they look great. Although it's hard to make out any details!

I'm looking forward to seeing these guys Curu

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 11:55 pm 
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Nice conversions! I love the idea of an Elven hero riding to glorious battle on his fearsome white lion!! :D

Also, thank for the most recent batrep - I know doing the BC diagrams is extra work for you, but I appreciate your effort, as it makes following the flow of battle much easier (especially when you're facing armies I'm less familiar with!). The photos are the icing on the cake. 8)


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 11:48 am 
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@NexS - Yeah the light is terrible. When I finish both the Dragon army and the Cavstar variant I WILL get a proper DSLR and set up good shots with decent lighting.

@Orchaldor - I`m not a big fan of Lions, I don`t think it fits with the Elves overall. Fantasy for me is about Phoenixes, Dragons, Griffons etc. White Lions have always been my least favourite unit fluff-wise, which is ironic as they`re the elite unit I`ve used the most and furthermore as my army is Caledorian-themed (you all thought I had evil elves? What is more volcanic fury-ish than orange and black??), making Lions fit in is hard. With that said, I am fairly with how the conversion turned out and the extensive use of bits from the Dragon-set helps keep the feeling true to the rest of my army.

Making characters stand out is important to me. To this end I always try and paint them significantly brighter than the rest of my units and these conversions (possibly with the exception of the Lance Noble) are quite easy to pick out from the normal Helms. Hopefully my opponents agree :)

Next game is scheduled for Thursday. Don`t know what I`ll face yet, but it`s time to bring out the Deathtrain!

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:56 pm 
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Mounted characters completed! The light should be a fair bit better now, but again I`ll promise to get some really proper shots when everything is done for the cavstar/star dragon list. I bought a Phoenix yesterday, and apart from that I`m lacking like 1 RBT and a few models (or quite a few Reavers if I indend to go down the star coven road).

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:18 pm 
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Nice conversions, Curu! Like Spellarcher, I liked the mounted Archmage with the "throne-saddle" the most - Lvl 4 Wizards are supposed to be a bit "otherworldly" and eccentric! Remember the fluff from the 6th ed book describing a HE Archmage (somethingsomething the Green) specializing on the Lore of Life turning himself into a plant for a long time in order to understand them better! His colleagues wondered why he didn't attend any of the meetings on the White Tower for more than a century and found him in his mansion turned into a plant and dispelled the spell! :P

As for your ETC list advice, thanks for reminding me that the PG block needs some magic resistance support, not adding any MR items to the Lvl1 High Mage accompanying them was a huge oversight! I tweaked that list by turning the Ogre Blade Noble into a Potion of Strength plus Lance Noble which I think is a better build anyway especially with Beasts support and bought the scroll caddie an Obsidian Trinket with the 15 points saved! As for your other points, I believe boosted Amber Spear will definitely be enough to draw that darn scroll early because virtually all matchups have some big precious target they don't want getting wiped from the board with D6 S10 hits turn 1. Heck, even Curse of Anraheir may draw the scroll early if he has a juicy enough target for the spell which he can't afford to not march early in the game. I know I wouldn't want to eat Curse on my Helmbus early in the game! Other than the char sniping effect, it's pretty much the same thing as eating Final Transmutation if I want to march. Don't want to try Death on the Lvl4 in the bus as I want to leave that to you! :P (I also really hate not being able to take Book and the limit to 4 dice if using Death under ETC - I'm addicted to the Book really bad)

I really want to try this list as well because it's a pretty unique approach and neck-bearded bards could sing the songs of my deeds as the inventor of the dreaded HE powerlist that broke ETC and the hero that made Swordmasters work competitively under the 8th edition book! :P

Quote:
Lords -%25

1x Archmage (The Lore of High Magic) - Level 4, Book of Hoeth, Talisman of Endurance, Ironcurse Icon = 310
1x Prince - Barded Elven Steed, Giant Blade, Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, Potion of Foolhardiness, Dragon Armour, Shield = 290

Heroes -%18,8

1x Noble - Battle Standard Bearer, Razor Standard, Dragon Armour, Great Weapon = 154
1x Noble - Barded Elven Steed, Obsidian Lodestone, Enchanted Shield, Dragon Armour, Lance = 151
1x Mage (The Lore of Beasts) - Elven Steed, Dispel Scroll, Khaine's Ring of Fury = 145

Core -%25

17x Silver Helms - Shields, Full Command = 421
5x Ellyrian Reavers - Bows, Harbinger = 95
5x Ellyrian Reavers - Bows = 85

Special -%17,4

26x Sword Masters of Hoeth - Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon = 418

Rare -%13,8

1x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower = 70
1x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower = 70
1x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower = 70
1x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower = 70
1x Great Eagle = 50

Total = 2399


I couldn't bother checking the ETC FAQ to see how unmodified leadership and Spirit Leech shenanigans were house ruled for the ETC comp yet, if I took Death instead of Beasts on the Lvl1 riding with the bus would the Mage cast Leech with Ld10 from the Prince? I am really torn between taking Beasts or Death. Wildform is really great to complement the Lvl4 High AM as High Magic really lacks good buffs for combat and S6 AP Swordmasters would be really insane with all those WS6 attacks! A mobile Mage in the bus throwing Ld10 death snipes and 2d6 S4 MM's would be really good as well. Spirit Leech works really well with Arcane Unforging as well against a lot of terrible matchups as both spells can really do a number on solo "herohammer" type pain-in-the-asses! What would you take - Beasts or Death? I'm leaning towards Beasts myself...


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:38 pm 
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Throne-guy will by my L4 then, although I personally prefer the other mage I get your point ;)

Beasts will be interesting to read about. Your high list looks similar to what I posted just now in the SM/WL thread, apart from more heroes and less shooting. Looks like you`ll be having quite a bit to playtest :)

Spirit Leech under ETC allows Inspiring Presence. I think GW really messed this up and I have yet to see any interpretation I think is both in accordance to the rulebook and the FAQ. There is just so much contradiction. With IP being allowed though our Prince provides a very effective snipe and not everyone sports LD10 for defensive purposes ^^ As you know I also value Heavens a lot as a secondary lore, although without the Loremaster you could probably do with a bit more offensive so Death might be the better option.

---

Looks like I`ll be having 2 games on Thursday. Effectively, that means I`ll be playing both the cavstar and the stardragon. I will likely be facing Tomb Kings, which I believe can be a real threat under ETC restrictions, depending on their build. I think Death is a lot more powerful against them than High, so it`s one matchup where this switch makes a big difference. The Star Dragon I`m less certain of as TK typically either sport lots of shooting, banishment, death or all of the above combined. Sphinxes are safe, as long as it`s not the flying one with HKB ;)

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 10:09 pm 
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I started working on the Phoenix today. While I was looking through the kit I immediately realized that I wanted to do something unique. Pretty much the entire rest of my army is custom-built to some degree, with all characters converted from various sets, the Star Dragon featuring the awesome Carmine Dragon model with lots of base-work and a rider that I`m really happy with etc. So, how to convert something using only the kit itself?

The thought hit me someplace between me pondering how to include my fire-theme for the Phoenix and looking through the kit and noticing multiple heads. Why not make it a true "song of ice and fire" phoenix - a bit of both? This doubles up as a perfect Chimera! for my WoC army as well! I also decided to reverse the way the wings are attached (which took some bending to look good) and, if possible, I`m looking to magnetize its pole so that it flies at an angle (sort of what you see in the pictures below, so that it`s coming down to attack instead of soaring (which is what the model is "supposed" to do, Ptolemy has really captured this effect with his custom-built trees Phoenix base - check out his painting & modelling log if you haven`t already done so here: clicky. For the Phoenix shots in particular, see this page: clicky).

Anyways, onto the WiP pictures:

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There remains a lot of greenstuff, magnet work (hoping I can pull this off!) and attaching more flames somehow. I didn`t want to do one wing of each as I fear it will take away too much from the symmetry, instead I`m looking to spread out the flames evenly. You might notice that I have kept the Frostheart tail with attaching a single stream of flames in-between, also to maintain the symmetry. For now, lots of glue and greenstuff is drying, so I`ll just leave it overnight and continue working on it tomorrow :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 11:03 pm 
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These pictures are much clearer. I like the kitbashing that you've got going on here!
Very nice

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:26 am 
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Thanks :)

Some more WiP shots of the bird. I`ve spent a lot of greenstuff to cover up various holes (fitting both heads didn`t look good without for example) as well as sculpting some flames. I took at look at the kit but I think the other flame pieces would be too hard to fit in, besides I`ve done this before with the HE Dragon so I know how it ends up looking, which I think will fit in perfectly here. I`m pretty sure I`m done now, just need to magnetize its stand or perhaps figure out a way to make a custom base (I`m not a big fan of the "invisible" stands as they aren`t close to invisible). With the way the feet are positioned (which I found next to impossible to do anything about) it looks more like it`s just taking off or something rather than attacking, so will have to consider both options before moving on :)

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:53 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
I have been contemplating the loadout on the characters in the bus a bit. With bonus points, if the entire unit dies I`m giving up nearly 2000VPs, so specifics here can be very, very important. First, the list:

High Archmage L4 Steed, Power Stone, Crown of Command, Dragonbane Gem = 300
Prince on Barded Steed, Giant Blade, Dragon Armour, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon = 282

Noble BSB on Barded Steed, BOTWD, Heavy Armour, Shield, Lance = 172
Noble on Barded Steed, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, Dragon Armour, Shield = 147
Noble on Barded Steed, Lance, Dragon Armour, Charmed Shield, Luckstone, Potion of Strength = 131
High Mage Steed, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Fury = 145


I think your choice to try death over high on level 4 is the right one. As you said, death will give answers in match ups that are hard for your list. I'm wondering however the usefulness of the third noble (potion of strength). What role does he have in this list? Off course he gives more hitting power to the bus + the mages and bsb can hide in the back rank for longer if needed. I'm asking this because at the moment I'm playing with similar (all most identical) list and and I'm not sure that he really is needed. I have played in three tournaments without the third noble and I cant remember a situation where he would have been essential. It is possible however that I may have been able to play more aggressively with him in the bus but I'm not sure...

Does the bus really need more hitting power? Think about units that you are unsure about fighting with the bus. Does the third noble change the situation?


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:24 pm 
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I will get back to this shortly, Mufasa :) Death is undoubtably a good choice. As for the Noble, the short answer is yes. I will put up 2 BRs now and analyze the setup afterwards.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:37 pm 
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Trying out new bunkers for Light mages!

.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Tomb Kings (ETC comp) .::.

My list:
Prince on Star Dragon: Star Lance, Dragonhelm, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Shield = 598

Noble BSB on Barded Steed: Heavy Armour, Lance, Shield, Banner of the World Dragon = 172
Mage L2 Light on Steed, Dispel Scroll - 155
Mage L2 Light on Steed, Sceptre of Stability - 145
Mage L1 Light on Steed, Ring of Fury - 120
Heroes/Characters: 592/1190

14 Silver Helms, Full Command, Shields = 352
8 Reavers, Champion, bows = 162
8 Reavers, Champion, bows = 162
Core: 676

4 Repeater Bolt Throwers = 280
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Special & Rare: 520

Army Total: 2386

His list:
L4 Death, Scroll
L4 Nehek, Scepter
L2 Light, channel staff
Prince with Enchanted Shield on Chariot

7 Chariots, FC +1M
20 Archers, FC
10 Archers, muso
5 Horse Archers

Warsphinx, breath weapon
Warsphinx, breath weapon
3 Necroknights, Entombed Beneath the Sands

Casket
Hierotitan
Necrosphinx

// Pre-battle thoughts and deployment //

A very soft list as far as TK goes. I believe they can make strong lists under ETC restrictions, but unfortunately this is not an approach I believe in. Sure chariots are hard when they hit, but they have a huge footprint and don`t do much when they`re not charging. TK are better served with lots of Archers and Horse Archers for board control, in my opinion.

Anyways, I grabbed Phas, Banishment, Speed, Shem`s and Net. He got Purple Sun, Caress, Spirit Leech and Soulblight along with smiting (don`t know what other nehek spells he had). L1 defaulted to Soul Quench. The lack of artillery meant I had completely free reign, so my idea was to dance around until I could find an opening and smash home, hard.

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The battle was short and brutal(we finished in one hour), so I`ll just present the pictures with a brief description at the end:

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Early game I shift the Dragon West. Bus moves up, outside of Chariot`s range (well, he could`ve tried on double 6s). He tries to adjust to Dragon + frostie but can`t do it (M6 really can`t catch flyers as he`s always one step behind). I manage to get the bus close to chariots: their front touches the impassable and thus they can`t wheel around to charge me. This creates a huge opening and my magic + shooting is constantly pounding his Sphinxes which eventually go down (2/3). After the last picture, Dragon hits the champion-less bunker with both L4s, Frostie + bus hits Chariots. I kill both of these units, which means he has a Warsphinx on 3W left, along with casket, hierotitan and the big Archers. He concedes as I have only lost 1W on the Dragon and 2 Silver Helms or so. A 20-0 victory to the High Elves!

// Evaluation //

Very fast game against a soft TK list. Without any catapults, he can`t really do a whole lot but wait for me to strike. Chariots not being able to charge out with the Dragon being able to hit the bunker sealed the deal. Light is of course very good against TK, but I think the better play here might be to spam Shem`s since I don`t need combat buffs. Bunkers worked ok, but this matchup is not the proper test they need. They did perform well enough to convince me to try at least one more game.

I had another game against the same player where we both took other lists. Report coming very soon!

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:58 pm 
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Trying out Deathtrain!

.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Tomb Kings (ETC comp) .::.

Death Archmage L4 Steed, Power Stone, Crown of Command, Dragonbane Gem = 300
Prince on Barded Steed, Giant Blade, Dragon Armour, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon = 282

Lords = 582

Noble BSB on Barded Steed, BOTWD, Heavy Armour, Shield, Lance = 172
Noble on Barded Steed, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, Dragon Armour, Shield = 147
Noble on Barded Steed, Lance, Dragon Armour, Charmed Shield, Luckstone, Potion of Strength = 131
High Mage Steed, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Fury = 145

Heroes = 595

18 Silver Helms, Full Command, Shields = 444
5 Reavers, bows = 85
5 Reavers, bows = 85

Core = 614

5 Shadow Warriors, Champion = 85
1 Frostheart Phoenix = 240
4 Repeater Bolt Throwers = 280
Special & Rare = 605

Army total = 2396

His list:
L4 Nehek, Scepter
L2 Light, Scroll
King with Enchanted Shield on Chariot, Dawnstone and +1S sword.

9 Chariots, FC +1M
30 Archers, FC
5 Horse Archers

Warsphinx, breath weapon
3 Stalkers, Entombed Beneath the Sands
3 Necroknights, Entombed Beneath the Sands

Casket
Catapult
Necrosphinx
Necrosphinx

// Pre-battle thoughts and deployment //

Another relatively soft TK list. My goal was to hit hard at either the chariots or the bunker and just take it from there. Magic saw me grab Spirit Leech, Caress, Soulblight, Purple Fun. He got smiting, ward, killing blow and can`t remember the last. Light grabbed Speed of Light + Shem`s.

Image

Another short and brutal game, so pictures with description at the end will follow:

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I grab T1 with +1 to go first. His Necros are both behind a hill so they can`t see anything. I send the bus up 18" and draw his scroll with Power Stone. His T1 he does not block me with necros, so T2 I smash into his bunker. Winning by 19 (!!!) the bunker evaporates. I overrun into Casket. He rears with both necros but I still combat and reform to face him. One necro had lost 3W previously so the Prince was only facing this, with the Potion Noble facing the full strength one. My T3 the Phoenix flanks the 2W construct. I cast Purple Sun, which can hit both Sphinxes and travel through chariots, but roll a misfire. Regardless the Sphinxes go down in combat without doing any serious damage to me. I reform so that the Knights have my flank where there are no characters and the King has to hit my Prince. His chariots try a last ditch charge with the Knights and it`s almost exciting for a moment: the impact hits deal a ton of wounds (10 Helms or so) and the Knights combine to kill all but 1. This means my L1 has to go front rank and he`s killed. The rest deal 1W to BSB. I hold on stubborn (this is the situation at the last picture). After this, frostie charges Knights, RBTs kill Stalkers, Prince kills King and he crumbles before he can kill any more. He`s got the bus + 1 L1 mage, but I have killed everything he has, so 20-0 win for the High Elves!

// Evaluation //

Death really has me convinced as the primary lore for this list. While it didn`t make a big impact in this game, I can see how it presents answers to problems that would otherwise be huge.

This game was pretty much over when I hit his bunker. The chariots counter-charging was close, indeed, but he rolled very high for impact hits (4D6 on average should not result in 10 Helms). The only way I could`ve avoided this would be to expose characters to necros earlier. Probably could`ve played the Reavers better to block him out, but note to self: Eagle would be golden here as compared to SWs (who did take the flank and kill the catapult though). I must consider its viability relative to getting +1 drop.

---

After the games we sat down and discussed possible TK lists. I`ll be keeping an eye out for his progress and probably he`ll field a stronger army the next time around :) I think there`s a lot to be learned for him though based on these games: although the matchup is really hard for him more defensive and tight deployment would allow him more magic + shooting before I hit home. I also think he should`ve used the Sphinxes more offensively to keep my busses out, in both games, even if they risk their lives.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm 
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Time to revisit a previous comment:

Mufasa wrote:
Does the bus really need more hitting power? Think about units that you are unsure about fighting with the bus. Does the third noble change the situation?


First of all, the current list:

Curu Olannon wrote:
Death Archmage L4 Steed, Power Stone, Crown of Command, Dragonbane Gem = 300
Prince on Barded Steed, Giant Blade, Dragon Armour, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon = 282

Lords = 582

Noble BSB on Barded Steed, BOTWD, Heavy Armour, Shield, Lance = 172
Noble on Barded Steed, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, Dragon Armour, Shield = 147
Noble on Barded Steed, Lance, Dragon Armour, Charmed Shield, Luckstone, Potion of Strength = 131
High Mage Steed, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Fury = 145

Heroes = 595

18 Silver Helms, Full Command, Shields = 444
5 Reavers, bows = 85
5 Reavers, bows = 85

Core = 614

5 Shadow Warriors, Champion = 85
1 Frostheart Phoenix = 240
4 Repeater Bolt Throwers = 280
Special & Rare = 605

Army total = 2396


So basically the Shadow Warriors and third fighter noble are "changeable". Combined, it`s a little over 200 points. The problem is, we don`t have that many places to put these points: Skycutters are useless, infantry doesn`t fit the list and rare is full, to the point where I can add either an Eagle or a small unit of Sisters. Whatever I drop these 2 choices for will also mean more drops, less survivability, flexibility and grindability for the bus. The Noble could indeed be exchanged for a third mage, but I find I don`t really need more spells. Combat power on the other hand always comes in handy: although I`ve swapped High for Death at the moment I don`t want the bus stuck, grinding. Currently there are a few things out there which requires grinding.

To phrase the problem a bit differently: if you want to restructure the list, how would you go about doing so? You could of course do major re-working, but assuming that only the third Noble is what brings problems, how would you change the list?

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 8:42 pm 
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Hey Curu - wonderful thread, please keep it going! :)

Curu Olannon wrote:
5 Shadow Warriors, Champion = 85

5 SW are 70 points, so 80 with a champ. Saved you 5 points! :)

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:12 pm 
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Thank you! I believe this has been pointed out before, but I keep forgetting to adjust the list. I need to make a small amendment anyways, since I`ve moved away from High Magic I think that TOTS needs to be included again. This brings back the usefulness of the third Noble, although I have to let the Potion of Strength go away. I`ll see how I can fit it in, I can probably drop a piece of dragon armour or two and maybe have enough points for Sword of Anti-Heroes again as well. Will take a look!

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:28 pm 
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New list draft:

Curu Olannon wrote:
Death Archmage L4 Steed, Power Stone, Crown of Command, Dragonbane Gem = 300
Prince on Barded Steed, Giant Blade, Dragon Armour, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon = 282

Lords = 582

Noble BSB on Barded Steed, BOTWD, Heavy Armour, Shield, Lance = 172
Noble on Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, Shield, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm = 141
Noble on Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, Shield, Luckstone, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Sword of Anti-Heroes = 141
High Mage Steed, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Fury = 145

Heroes = 599

18 Silver Helms, Full Command, Shields = 444
5 Reavers, bows = 85
5 Reavers, bows = 85

Core = 614

5 Shadow Warriors, Champion = 80
1 Frostheart Phoenix = 240
4 Repeater Bolt Throwers = 280
Special & Rare = 600

Army Total = 2395


5 points to spend. I don`t really see where it`s worth spending these points: heroes are filled up and the AM already has a utility item. I could give the AM a magic weapon as well, but I really don`t see where this is going to matter.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:28 pm 
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WiP shots of the Frostheart Phoenix - a project I like to call "a saga of ice and fire" ^^

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I want to make the base from scratch, but it needs a lot of work to look good. Have to consider some options here, will keep you updated :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 11:25 am 
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Could the Shadow Warrior champion have a 5 point magic sword? Just imagine all the Wraiths he will go on to kill (or not)!


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Yeah the thing is I really don`t see the usefulness of those last 5 points: they`re basically 5 points that will pretty much never give me any value and every now and then they will lose me a battle point or tie-breaker VP. Of course we`re talking extremes here ^^

Ice & Fire bird complete now. I may have to do some minor touch-ups but for now I`m done with the model, just need to figure out what to do about its base. I have an idea, will have to see what materials I can get my hands on. Anyway, enjoy:

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I`m very happy with how it turned out. I feel I`ve preserved the Caledorian, volcanic feel which I`ve built my army around while also getting in a new colour, the signature Frostheart-blue. Looking forward to finishing the base as well, which will be bright regardless of what solution I end up with. Having already painted lots of models for SM, I notice that I`m quickly finishing these new armies which is really great: My next tournament hopefully won`t see me stress-paint the last couple of days in advance ;)

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:23 am 
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I've followed your army blog, and have been looking into your comments on list construction.

I know you play ETC but why is there such a emphasis on cavalry hammer with the above mentioned blog and advice . If you like Cav, why not play Brets instead? They do it better.

I just liked your older infantry lists better I guess. :?

Nice cleanup on the T.K.


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:08 am 
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Bretonnia does not do cav better than we do. They do it differently ;)

My emphasis on cavalry stems from the fact that I prefer to play mobile lists, possibly with infantry support. If you look at my old blog (link in signature) you`ll see that I started out with a dual-cavhammer list, evolved into a Star Dragon and only rarely played infantry dominated ones. Last year just before our new book hit I played a few games with dual L4s and lots of Lions. Unfortunately nearly half the Lions (20 ish) were literally destroyed one week before a tournament so I couldn`t take them as I had intended to. Instead, I took the Star Dragon yet again. Thus, experimenting with infantry was new to me and the list I took to SM with the Loremaster really is my first serious attempt at making infantry-HE work (and even that list quickly evolved to taking a cavprince as well).

Taking infantry now is definitely something we can do. I just don`t prefer playing that way. In my post-SM analysis I highlighted a couple of interesting approaches for the list. In addition there are the usual suspects, e.g. Shadow L4 + WL + PG, but overall there aren`t a lot of ways we can play infantry now. My focus on mobile lists (cavstar + sd) is also partly because I`m preparing for a team tournament (see this link: viewtopic.php?f=76&t=64932), where my role is to get matchups where I can score big points. Infantry HE cannot do this: if your opponent castles in the opposite corner it is impossible to get big points with an M5-based list. M9 on the other hand, with death to boot, is impossible to hide from for 6 turns.

If you were to make a list for me to play, what would it look like? I`m curious :D

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Phoenix base completed! I`ll hopefully be getting some pictures of it along with the rest of the army tomorrow.

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You looking at me, punk?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:33 pm 
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Had a game vs DW today with CD (report coming), got to bring the Phoenix as well. Here are some shots with it side-by-side with the SD:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:29 am 
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Damn you painted that quick, how many hours did that take?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:35 am 
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Bi-polar bird! I like the dark feathers actually!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:56 am 
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@Jimmy - Frostheart was somewhere between 5-10 hours, split up in 6-7 sessions. The characters were a little more, including all the converting.

@NexS - Exactly ;) I was very happy with the overall effect as well! Managed to make it unique while staying true to the feel of the rest of the army.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Another game for the Deathtrain, this time against Bretonnia. I know this army as very strong in capable hands, with double trebuchets, double scrolls and units that are hard to take points from so I was eager to play this matchup.

.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Bretonnia (ETC comp) .::.

Death Archmage L4 Steed, Power Stone, Crown of Command, Dragonbane Gem = 300
Prince on Barded Steed, Giant Blade, Dragon Armour, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon = 282

Lords = 582

Noble BSB on Barded Steed, BOTWD, Heavy Armour, Shield, Lance = 172
Noble on Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, Shield, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm = 141
Noble on Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, Shield, Luckstone, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Sword of Anti-Heroes = 141
High Mage Steed, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Fury = 145

Heroes = 599

18 Silver Helms, Full Command, Shields = 444
5 Reavers, bows = 85
5 Reavers, bows = 85

Core = 614

5 Shadow Warriors, Champion = 80
1 Frostheart Phoenix = 240
4 Repeater Bolt Throwers = 280
Special & Rare = 600

Army Total = 2395

His list:
Lord on Peg with 2+ re-rollable, ASF Sword, Fireward, HKB
L4 on Steed, Heavens, Silver Mirror MR2
BSB 1+ re-rollable
L1 on Steed, Beasts, Scroll

2 lances of Realmknights

3x3 Pegknights

1 unit of Grailknights
2 mandatory trebuchets

// Pre-battle thoughts and deployment //

The main problem going into this game is my inability to point the bus at something meaningful, combined with the no-fly item denying my phoenix anything even resembling a threat projection against hus busses and lastly, death magic being largely inefficient here with his MR.

The map was also weird with a central lake and wall greatly limiting my options. He had many more drops than me so he could avoid committing until my bus was down, so I put it where I could advance fairly safe with blocking at least one treb for a turn and maybe get control of that part of the map. This meant he got a refused flank but there was little I could do about it.

Spells saw me grab Spirit Leech, Caress, Soulblight and Purple Fun. He took Iceshard, Convergence, Curse of the Midnight Wind and Thunderbolt. L1s took Apotheosis and Wyssan`s.

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With him praying, I went first.

// HE T1 //

Frostheart moves up towards his blocks. He reminds me of the item because he doesn`t want to get such a huge advantage from such a stupid mistake (let`s be honest: how often do we face Bretonnians?) so I put it behind the hill instead. Hopefully won`t make that mistake again, but I would`ve remembered it better if he had let me pay for it.

Bus moved up centrally with the Peg Knights in their front arc. They denied me an approach to the trebuchet in the corner so I was hoping Spirit Leech and/or Soulblight would help me clear them out. Magic however saw him dispel ring of fury and I followed up with not meeting the cast value on a 3D6 Spirit Leech (95% to go through).

Shooting saw 2 RBTs try flank shots on his Pegs: Skirmishers are FAQed to only counting as not having ranks in combat so a bolt would penetrate. Both missed. The other 2 didn`t do much either, can`t remember what I shot at. Reavers and Shadow Warriors also didn`t do much.

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// BR T1 //

He moves the lances up. Pegknights on the right keep on protecting the treb, zoning my SWs out. Magic is lacklustre, he gets Iceshard on my bus and I dispel Thunderbolt on Reavers.

Shooting saw 1 treb try an indirect shot on the Helms. He missed, barely. The other landed a hit but misfired, no ill effect.

Forgot to take a picture, sorry!

// HE T2 //

With his speed I can`t keep chasing his treb + pegknights, so my bus swings centrally instead. I take care to force one lance to need 10+ to charge, making a double-charge unlikely to hit home. Phoenix realizes it has to stay far away from the busses so it moves up to help in treb duty. Magic sees my L4 fail to cast boosted Caress on 4D6. I then IF apotheosis, miscast contained by BOTWD.

Shooting is way better this time around, I think I obliterated an entire unit of Pegknights with the RBTs, even the SWs contributed.

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// BR T2 //

RBT charges incoming. Busses split up: one reforms and moves away from me, the other moves towards RBTs for more charges. Magic however is truly disastrous for him: he miscasts and loses enough models to force a panic test, which he fails. He then runs towards me because of the Western units, in his own turn. This is really bad because he doesn`t get to do anything about my movement next turn and the best he can hope for is to keep fleeing or something to get out of my charge arc.

Oh and the Grail Knights pretty much spent the entire game trying to keep my Western reavers at bay. With flaming, magical attacks (they had BOEF) they are quite useless in this matchup.

Trebs did some damage to Helms, but Apotheosis granted me a 6++ which I duly thanked for by passing 4/5 6++ saves against one of the hits, preventing disaster.

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// HE T3 //

Western Reavers finally get around the GK and move 1" away from the treb, making it impossible for him to reform and protect it. Bus moves up to give his L4 bus problems next turn. Phoenix moves past Pegknights to charge Treb next turn.

Magic, Archmage this time miscasts on Spirit Leech going for his treb. I lose 2 levels, along with it Spirit Leech and Soulblight. Adding insult to injury I roll a `1` for the SL result, he rolls a 3 so no effect. Shooting does nothing almost as the RBTs are being compromised and I`m lacking good targets.

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// BR T3 //

Lord charges out at an RBT. Bus rallies. Lone mage barely has enough movement to block my Helms. Incredibly stupid mistake and adding insult to injury, my Prince is on that corner so I cannot charge him past either. Magic can`t remember, can`t have been significant. Shooting sees his last treb shots kill 4 Helms or so.

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// HE T4 //

One Noble (Sword of Anti-Heroes dude) has a charge past his mage and takes it. I have to lock him down. Reavers rear-charge the mage. Frosty charges treb. SWs are boxed in, so I move them in front of the impassable. This gives my Phoenix a possible charge on his Pegknights if he wants to kill me. Magic sees Archmage IF Purple Sun. I hit 3 Helms, but nearly all of his remaining knights in the L4 bunker as well (only 1 was out of its way). I pass 2 out of 3 tests, however he passes ALL of his (on I3!).

In combat the Sword of Anti-Heroes dude gets bogged down by a champion. I fail to hurt him but hold regardless. I reform to have my flank vs his, which denies him a combat reform to face my front, unless he goes super-wide (he has 3 models in contact with me of which 2 are non-command models, to keep this he needs to go 6 wide with a reform for it to be legal).

Reavers killed the L1. Frostie killed Treb and reformed towards SWs. Other Reavers killed last Treb.

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// BR T4 //

Pegknights charge RBT and SWs. Magic is contained with my scroll. Combat sees my Noble lose big (again I deal no wounds) but I hold because of BSB + LD10.

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// HE T5 //

Bus charges his cav behind the Noble. He declares no-fly so Phoenix doesn`t reach the Pegknights who beat my SWs. Magic is more miscasts, more contained by BOTWD. At this point I have next to no spells left.

In combat the Helms kill enough cav to disconnect from combat. This is very awkward as he still has 3 left and is thus steadfast. He holds and I can`t reform meaningfully, nor can I see anything if more stuff dies.

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// BR T5 //

The Reavers who blocked for the Noble elect to flee. Other Reavers flee as well, but roll high and are off the table. Pegknights move away from frostheart. He directs his second bus (with BSB) into my Noble instead. Magic - can`t remember. In combat I lose big, but kill the champ (with BSB in base contact I now get +1A, +1S) and barely hold.

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// HE T6 //

I reform Helms to face him. I have the bound ring left along with Apotheosis. He lets me have the ring on the pegs but I roll low and deal no wounds. Apotheosis on the Noble goes off with IF, again it`s contained. He passes both fear tests though and despite being S6 A5 due to L4 being in base contact as well now, I can`t hurt his BSB. I lose, but hold.

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In his last turn of the game he gets Curse on my Noble. Again I fail to hurt his BSB. This time however I fail my breaktest and he runs me down.

Counting up VPs I have lost surprisingly little, somewhere in the vicinity of 600 points. He "only" gets my RBTs, 1 unit of reavers, Shadow Warriors and a Noble. I get a bus, both trebs, one unit of pegknights and his L1. I`m thus ~200 points ahead, which is an 11-9 victory to the High Elves!

// Evaluation //

This was a very enjoyable game, highly challenging with lots of clutch moments. The pictures are unfortunately too bad to convey a lot of what was going on, but I hope you get the big picture anyway.

There`s lots to analyze here, but I don`t have time now so I`ll revisit this later. In the meantime, feel free to drop your own analysis here :D

EDIT: analysis now up here - viewtopic.php?f=76&t=45081&p=881137#p881137

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:53 pm 
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Not been around for a while so to get me up to speed:

1. Not much to say about your TK experiences. It is a bad matchup for your opponent and I think, other than making life hard for you, he is really struggling to get much out of that game without some really lucky plays.

2. Loving the bird! Very original and the conversion work is great! I think the modeling side of your game is improving massively since you first started posting here.

3. I'll read the Bret BatRep shortly and post about it if I have thoughts...


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