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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:54 am 
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Love the bird, a very striking colour scheme!

The conversion of an airplane into a phoenix looks...ambitious. Will be keeping an eye on how you deal with it :) Good luck!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:55 am 
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Aicanor wrote:
Edit: I have this feeling it would be actually easier to sculpt the bird from putty than convert it from this...
Thanks for the encouraging words :S ...[/quote]I thought you deserve a fair warning. It is not going to be easy in any case. It also depends on a the level of detail you want to achieve and methods used. Instant Mold or some other way to make molds for plumage and such may be a good idea.
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I often see people using a kind of blue putty to temporarily put things together for dry-fitting etc. What is it?
I believe it is called Blu Tack and it is a rubbery substance used for putting posters and such in place. I do not know whether the brand is better than other similar products or not.
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what is an easy way to bend plastic
Heat, I've seen people using hor water or salt here, but never tried it on larger pieces so it will be better to consult with someone who actually did. It can also be different for different kinds of plastic.

No matter whether this works out or not, I do not doubt you'll know a lot more about modelling than me after this project. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:15 pm 
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rdghuizing wrote:
I do have questions for you (and others who actually know what they are doing...):
- what is an easy way to bend plastic

I wouldn't say I know what I'm doing... but I have bent plastic parts before. I used a lighter (small candle would work just as well) and sort of waved the part I was bending a few inches over the flame. You have to keep it moving in and out of the heat, bad things happen if it warms up too quickly. Warm up all sides of it then gently warp it how you want, or just a little further as it will likely relax a bit back towards it's previous shape. Let it cool and repeat as needed.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:47 pm 
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That's a great parrot - definitely my favourite brightly coloured skycutter bird I've seen so far. I think there's a risk when doing 'unnatural' colours on a bird (even when taken straight from nature!) that they end up looking like a pastiche of model and nature but not quite being either...but you've nailed this one. Top marks that man :D :D =D>

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:50 pm 
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That parrot idea is excellent! Well executed!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:07 am 
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Thanks :) My first reaction when I found the picture of the bird I posted below was "Cool! that's what I need". My second one was "how on earth am I going to create that, without making it look too cartoony". I glad to hear I managed that.

As for the plane to phoenix, here are the first photo's. The first is of what the plane bits actually look like. The second shows roughly what the idea is.
Image
Image

I am definitely going to give the bending a try. No lighters at hand, but I have more then enough small candles lying around. Though I probably first have to promise the wife not to burn down the house in the process...

@Aicanor: Thanks for the warning. I guessed as much when I came up with the idea. Especially given my very limited sculpting knowledge. Though I doubt that my modelling knowledge will surpass yours after I'm done here. I've seen your everqueen... But this project is just as much for the fun of it and to learn something as it is to actually get a model out of it. Though it is of course great if it works out, if it doesn't then all I've lost is some time and a few spare bits. :) And if it does work, then I have a few more spare bit and models lying around to chop up.

Thanks for the Blu Tack tip. After your post I realised that I have some of the sticking posters to walls stuff lying around, which is white and not blue in my case but does the same thing. So I got that lying around already. :)

Rod

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:02 am 
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Another question. Does anyone have any idea about how much greenstuff will be needed? I need to buy some new stuff, and it comes either in 12'' or 36'' (at least those are the most common quantities). In my experience, a little goes a long way. But I have no idea what will be needed in such a project. So, I'm open to advise.

Rod

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:59 pm 
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Maybe modelling caly will be cheaper? Something like this.
http://www.artistwarehouseonlinesa.co.z ... Terracotta
At least you can use it for main body and use green stuff for fine external work.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Modelling putty could be actually good for filling up the basic shape, but not every clay is good for modelling minis. Milliput is often used for this together with greenstuf or similar putties. There are some tutorials around which can be helpful. I also think you'll need a way to replicate patterns. Sculpting all those feathers by hand could become quite lengthy and boring work. I still need to try out the Instant Mold. but it looks promising.
You'll also need some soft (florist?) wire to keep the putty in the right shape.
With the greenstuff, if the larger pack is significantly cheaper, go for it.

As for the pics, the shape is roughly there, worst part could be the neck. I never tried to work on anything this large, I believe it could beconewuite tricky. With bending plastic, perhaps try to find a few tips on modelling forums first. Open fire always proves tricky to me, but so can salt. Water at least can't be hotter than 100 C. :lol: Still, this is one of the things I struggle with.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:49 am 
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I found some Milliput, greenstuff and an Instant Mold kind of thing. Should arrive today / tomorrow by mail. Thanks for the tip. It does look like the kind of things I will when proceeding. I can use the Milliput for filling out the general shape. Should be good. And the Insta-Mold for batch-generating feathers. I'll have to see what the easiest way to use it here is. First create a bunch of feathers and then stick them on, or use the mold as a kind of stamp to give the basic shape to greenstuff stuck to the model. It's probably going to end up a bit trial and error. As for wire, I have some metal, coated gardening wire which I can abuse for this purpose.

The general cutting up of the plane and gluing on of phoenix bits is finished. The plane bits after I finished hacking it up:
Image
And with all the big Phoenix bits stuck on.
Image

From here it's going to be a combination of sticking some more bits on from my bits box (I have some dragon spikes lying around for instance) and sculpting. From what I've read, flames shouldn't be too hard and feathers look doable as well. The tricky parts will probably be the claws. I have nothing in my bits box that can double as phoenix claws (as far as I can tell at least), mainly because the stuff I have is too small. And they are a bit more detailed then a feather or flame is...

After that it's basing of course. No idea as yet about what I'm going to do with that. I have some spare flying stands lying around. But I'm not sure if that's the best idea. I might borrow Ptolemy's tree-mounted phoenix base. Or do something with more flames. Or both. But that's still a long way away, and I'm open to ideas.

Rod

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:42 pm 
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Looks good so far. :) A column with some flames could take care of the lack of claws. It could be too static, but with some angling of the flames on top it could work.

Quote:
First create a bunch of feathers and then stick them on, or use the mold as a kind of stamp to give the basic shape to greenstuff stuck to the model
Greenstuff could even be bendy enough to be moulded separately and then glued to the model, you'll need to sculpt some feathers in between molds anyway, but as you say, it is not too difficult. Doing this feather by feather would probably be too much work for worse final result. But I am no expert (the phoenix I sculpted was 'somewhat' smaller. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:05 am 
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Small update. All the cutting up of parts is done. And I've added milliput putty to define the basic shape. Starting to look like a bird by now.
Image
Image

I must say, the milliputty is very interesting stuff to work with. Initially, once mixed, it's a lot softer then regular greenstuff is. And it stays softer for longer as well. This means that it's both easier and harder to work with. It's easier because you have longer to play around with it (in my experience, working with greenstuff becomes tricky after half an hour or so). And it is a lot easier to mold into a rough shape of what you want. But it is harder to get some detail in there (by hand) because it is so soft. It deforms very fast. Another great thing about it is that once set it goes very hard. Harder then greenstuff I think. And it does so faster then greenstuff (surprisingly). In my experience, greenstuff really needs 48 hours before completely set. Milliput does so after 20-ish hours.

I did find, because of these properties that milliput is great when using an insta-mold of some kind. Because it's soft it's easy to get into very fine details of a mold. And because it sets so hard, it holds the shape well. Borrowing a tree from the GW forest set, I've created a copy to (potentially) use on the base to mount the phoenix on:
Image

Making a whole forest with these should potentially be possible. Though I wouldn't know if you actually saved money, considering the cost of material and of course the hassle involved. But for copying bits like this for various purposes it works wonders. I already have a few ideas for terrain projects where having some extra versions of bits would help a lot. So I'll be using this in the future as well I expect.

Rod

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Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 4:36 pm 
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Wow! Looking forward to see that bird progress!


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 6:30 pm 
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That is certainly a mammoth task you've taken on there! Likewise I'm looking forward to seeing how that one pans out.

You still not got anything sorted re claws?


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 10:34 pm 
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Any work on this getting done over the weekend Rod? Very much looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:51 am 
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Thanks for all the encouragements :)

I have indeed started working on some claws:
Image
While they need some work, they are heading in the right direction I feel. I'm still thinking about the best positioning of them on the model.

I am indeed planning on getting more work done this weekend. The misses is working a nightshift this weekend. So I should have saturday evening and sunday the whole day to play around with him. I'll see if I'll have something to share monday. He's already a bit more progressed then what is shown in the pictures here. On the bottom, some flames are in place, as are the first feathers on his tail. So, it's slowly moving forward. It's lots of fun and very educational I must say...

Rod

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 4:20 pm 
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Great work I can't wait to see more on that bird!

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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:36 am 
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As promised, time for a status update. I didn't get as much work done as I had hoped. But the weather was simply too nice. So I spend most of my time outdoors... But I did put in a few hours. And the bottom part is now about half done I would say. Learning a lot along the way. Mainly that I still am not very good at working with greenstuff. But also, that sculpting something into greenstuff when it's stuck on a hard surface is a lot easier then trying 3D sculpting stuff. Or, the feathers are a lot easier then the flames. So if anyone has some good tips on how to sculpt half decent flames, then please do tell me :)

Image

I also remembered to take a few pictures of my previous battle:
Image
The army of Spires in all its glory. On its way to kick some serious DE ass...

Special mention goes to this guy:
Image

He ended up being the only unpainted model on my side of the table. They've moved up the to paint list...

Rod

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Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 12:58 am 
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Looks good so far, mate! I've had limited experience with flame sculpting but there were a few tutorials I found that helped (though I'm not sure how well they can be applied to a phoenix!)
I've found that using a "poke in, drag out" technique works well - it's how I put flames on my dragon's base, and the fleeing empire militia guy!

Found these too...

http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11629
Here's a good video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALoX3HSMPVo

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 12:27 pm 
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Thanks for those NexS. That was exactly the kind of tips I was looking for. I'll give them a try at some point (when I start work on the top of the phoenix). I'll probably do a few touch-ups on those on the bottom as well, but they are less important. Few people will see them anyway, and I'm guessing a decent paint-job can hide a lot of what's wrong with them... I hope.

Where have you hidden the pictures of your dragon? I've had a look in your plog, but couldn't find them there.

Rod

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:39 pm 
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The work on that pheonix is looking brilliant mate. Such a great idea and looks spot on so far. Inspiration enough for me to have a go at a frostie and steal the idea [-o<

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:29 am 
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Thanks for the compliment. Feel free to steal any ideas you find in here. Just be sure to share some pics ;)

The bottom part is finished.
Image

I'm still not too happy about the flames part, though I think it's good enough for the bottom of the model. For the top they'll need some more work. But the start is there. Sculpting the feathers wasn't too hard. And good practice. I'm slowly approaching the point where the greenstuff is actually more or less doing what I want it to do. The trick so far has been more or less to nudge the greenstuff in the right direction, and not so much actually put it in the right spot.

Anyway, let me know what you think.

Rod

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Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:27 am 
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Incredible is what I think. =D>

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:55 am 
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wow nice job RdgZXFWRDF! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:45 am 
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A lot of work on the underside of a model, not many people will see that hard work mate, but I like that you've done it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:55 pm 
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Thanks for the compliments. I know it's "just" the underside of the model. And that it won't be the most visible part of the model. But besides all parts of the model needing to look nice, it was mainly a practice area. Having never sculpted anything too serious with greenstuff, I really could use the practice. It's not too hard once you get the hang of it. But it takes a while before you do. So the aim is to make the top look a lot better...

And, @Mireadur, yes, I should probably change my alias at some point. I never expected to be posting 4000+ times here when I originally signed up. So I picked one I could easily remember...

Rod

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Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

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PS: Bring cookies!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:15 am 
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Another update. Work started on the top. And, as it should be on a phoenix, more flames. These flames I'm a lot more happy with. They look, for want of a better word, more real. At least they match the erratic nature of fire a bit more. So thank you NexS for the tips on sculpting flames you gave.

I've also added some spiky bits to the model. You can't go very wrong with spikes after all... Breaks it up a bit. And it puts it apart from a normal flamespire.

Picture time. Apologies for the quality of the photo's. It was late last night. No natural light at all and only a phone camera.
Image
Image

Comments and critiques, as always, welcome.

Rod

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:36 am 
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Hi Rod,

The phoniex is shaping up very nicely. Great idea to use whatever items you might have in order to build a model almost from scratch. Can't wait to see finished sculpt and even more the painted one! Keep up the good work! =D>

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:02 pm 
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When I first saw the idea for this project I thought you were mad, but now I know that what I thought was madness is in fact pure genius. Even unfinished, you're pulling this off masterfully! =D>

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:10 am 
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Well, to be honest, I considered the project quite mad as well when I started out. It was mainly a "for fun" project. I had the bits lying around and it gave me something to do in the evening. If it didn't work at all then all it would have cost me was a bit of greenstuff (well, quite a lot actually). And I liked the idea of getting some sculpting experience. I didn't think it would turn out half as well as it did.

Anyway, the bird is done! Apologies for the bad picture. I only just now noticed that they aren't completely in focus...
Image

Image

All that is left to do now is finish the base (part of which you can actually see in the background of these pictures) and get the thing painted. Which will be after my holiday (leaving end of the week...). I'm still in doubt about the colorscheme I should use. Probably traditional white to yellow flames for the flamy parts. And maybe some orange and black lava-like look for the feathery parts. Not sure yet. So if anyone has got any ideas, please do tell me.

Rod

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Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

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Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91


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