Ulthuan

Ulthuan, Home of the Asur
It is currently Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:45 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Hello Fellow Ulthuanites! (Is that the correct term? :lol: )

I'm have created this blog with the aim of creating a solid force going into 8th edition and I will be detailing my experiences here. I'm looking to both improve my play and help others that are running a similar list type.

I am currently testing the Cavstar style list after firstly trying a bowline idea with a lore master. However my love for Heavy cavalry has won through and I've given in to the idea of lots of heavily armoured elves.

This first post will include links to relevant parts of the blog and the second post is for the current rendition of the list.

Original List Ideas
Game 1 - Ogre Gutstar
Shadow Archmage Idea and thoughts
Initial Discussion on Cavstar plans
Game 2 - Coven of Light Empire
Game 3 - Short report Lizzies [ETC]

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Last edited by Caradryal on Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:05 pm, edited 24 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: The Host of Nagarythe
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
This is the current list I am running.

Lords

Prince
Giant blade, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Barded Steed, Dawnstone,

Archmage (Life)
Lvl 4, Dispel Scroll, Elven Steed, Khaines Ring of Fury

Heroes

Noble
BSB, Star Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield, Barded Steed, Golden Crown of Atrazar, GW

Core

2 x 5 Reavers
Bows, Musician

5 Reavers
Musician

5 Silver Helms
Shields, Musician

21 Archers
Musician

Special

12 Dragon Princes
FC, Banner of the World Dragon, Ogre Blade

21 x White Lions
SB, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame

Rare

2 x Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers

Frostheart Phoenix

2499 pts

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Last edited by Caradryal on Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:41 pm, edited 9 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Some list ideas
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 3:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Original List Ideas

List 1 - The Blade in the Darkness

Lords

Prince
Giant blade, Dragon Armour, Shield, Barded Steed, Dawnstone,

Archmage (Lore of High Magic)
Lvl 4, The Book of Hoerth, Talisman of Endurance, Elven Steed

Heroes

Noble
BSB, Star Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield, Barded Steed, Golden Crown of Atrazar, GW

Core

5 Reavers
Bows, Musician

2 x 5 Reavers
Bows, Spears, Musician

2 x 15 Archers
Musician

Special

12 Dragon Princes (Char's here)
FC, Banner of the World Dragon

18 White Lions
Musician

Rare

Frostheart Phoenix

2 x Eagle Claw bolt throwers

Great Eagle
Swiftsence

2497 pts

Quite a punchy list that also incorporates a decent baseline from the archers and bolt thrower's. The intended plan is to use the lions and the phoenix to hold up units so the bus can punch through from the flanks. The Reavers and eagle are there as re-directors and for hassling war machines in the enemies back lines.

Initial thoughts

Pro's

1) Large dangerous bus that should be able to punch a hole through most units.
2) Char's are quite safe embedded in the bus with the banner and the Lore of High magic shielding them.
3) Pretty decent firing line to deal with monsters or chaff.
4) Lvl 4 with the book shouldn't have too much trouble firing through a few spells a turn.
5) Miscast protection means I can 6-dice if I need to.

Con's

1) The all your egg's in one basket syndrome. With the lack of a scroll in the list spells like 13th and dwellers are terrifying.
2) Chaff might be an issue as the enemy will definitely not want the bus hitting their prize units (hoping the ranged units can help here).
3) No decent ward save on the prince (hopefully high magic will help him out).
4) Lack of ranked troops for breaking steadfast.
5) No dispel scroll but the book should go a long way here anyway.

All in all I quite like this one and I'm not generally a fan of using large unwieldy ranked units anyhow. I would've ideally like a unit of phoenix guard to combine with the dragon princes but everything else is just to good not to use. The lions will have to do.

List 2 - Warlock of the Black Tower

Lord

Loremaster
Talisman of Preservation, The book of Hoerth

Heroes

Noble
BSB, Armour of Caledor, Halberd

Mage (Lore of High Magic)
Dispel Scroll, Golden Crown of Atrazar

Core

5 Reavers
Bows, Musician

2 x 5 Reavers
Bows, Spears, Musician

2 x 15 Archers
Musician

Special

22 Phoenix Guard (Loremaster, BSB, Mage here)
FC, Razor Standard

21 White Lions
FC, Banner of the World Dragon

Rare

6 Sisters of Avelorn

Flamespire Phoenix

3 x Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers

2499 pts

This list is a lot less aggressive than the first one and relies on whittling down the enemy with massed firing and magic. When the enemy closes in the redirectors will do their work and the two well protected combat units should provide a decent obstacle for most enemy units. The Flamespyre was included this time to help grind down large enemy blocks before they reach my lines. I also included a scroll caddy as I don't think I can count on the loremaster's dispelling capability.

Initial thoughts

Pro's

1) The loremaster brings an excellent range of spells to the table, several of which are great when combined with the Phoenix guard.
2) Two Decent size combat blocks which are going to be hard to destroy.
3) Flaming attacks from the sisters should be useful for removing regeneration so I can whittle down those regenerating nasties.
4) Dispel scroll included to stop those big unit destroying spells.
5) Large amount of ranged units will be scary for lower armoured armies.

Con's

1) No heavy cavalry for the larger charge threat.
2) No Lvl 4 may give me issues against magic heavy armies (Hoping the scroll will counter this).
3) The Flamespyre is just not as durable as the Frostheart.
4) No unit destroying spells of my own.
5) Characters aren't as well protected as I'd like (hopefully the high lore attribute can help here)

Again I'm quite fond of this list which will play somewhat like a bowline. I have never played this list type before and also never without a level 4 both of which make me slightly nervous :D

Any C&C is welcome regarding either of the lists

Thanks for reading

I look forward to your comments.

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Last edited by Caradryal on Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:49 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Some list ideas
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 3:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Reserved

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Some list ideas
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 3:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
On a side note if I go for the 2nd army this little beauty will probably be my loremaster. I have a copy of her that I'm dying to find a place for :D

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Last edited by Caradryal on Fri May 24, 2013 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Some list ideas
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:42 pm
Posts: 34
List one looks pretty standard as far as a cav star list goes, only thing I saw wrong with it is that WL have a minimum unit size 10. I think list two is a lot more versatile and of I were to pick one that's the one I'd want to try.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Some list ideas
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
erik9798 wrote:
List one looks pretty standard as far as a cav star list goes, only thing I saw wrong with it is that WL have a minimum unit size 10. I think list two is a lot more versatile and of I were to pick one that's the one I'd want to try.


Good catch on the lions, shows how much I don't know about the new rules! #-o I've edited the list to suit.

I've combined the units and added a musician as I feel it'd be to unwieldy at that size without one. Unfortunately this meant I had to get the points from somewhere so I dropped a bolt thrower and added an eagle for the 10 pts required.

I also added a poll and I'll chalk you up as a vote for list 2.

Comments on the reasons behind any votes would be appreciated.

Thanks for the comments erik :)

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:15 pm 
Offline
Young Eataini Prince
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:41 pm
Posts: 3608
I went for the Loremaster list. I like the name of the list, the model and I prefer infantry/shooting type lists. Why not give the loremaster the talisman of preservation though? Surely you can spare 15 extra points to gain a 4++ rather than a 5++?

Also good choice on Nagarythe. I've been wanting to do a Nagarythe army for a while but I've already committed to Eataine. :)

_________________
"I say the Eatainii were cheating - again." -Aicanor
"Eatainian jerks…" -Headshot
"It was a little ungentlemanly." -Aicanor (on the Eatainii)
"What is it with Eataini being blamed for everything?" -Aicanor


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 1:51 pm
Posts: 13
Location: The Netherlands
I went for the infantry/Loremaster list as well - I don't believe in an all-eggs-in-one-basket approach with High Elves. Additionally, I feel the White Lions are out of place in the first list, being the only thing that doesn't have a mount (or a bow...).

Oh, and I love the Loremaster's versatility. So much spells, and all of them useful! If you're worried about character protection in the second list, perhaps the Shield of the Merwyrm can help?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Elithmar wrote:
I went for the Loremaster list. I like the name of the list, the model and I prefer infantry/shooting type lists. Why not give the loremaster the talisman of preservation though? Surely you can spare 15 extra points to gain a 4++ rather than a 5++?

Yeah that was a naming mistake on my behalf. He ha the 4++ but I named it wrong :oops:
Elithmar wrote:
Also good choice on Nagarythe. I've been wanting to do a Nagarythe army for a while but I've already committed to Eataine. :)

I just love the feel of the Dark elves models and I want to try and capture that in a High elf army. Sort of a pre sundering feel :twisted:

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Serenity wrote:
I went for the infantry/Loremaster list as well - I don't believe in an all-eggs-in-one-basket approach with High Elves. Additionally, I feel the White Lions are out of place in the first list, being the only thing that doesn't have a mount (or a bow...).

I agree but I felt that the list needed the hitting power of our elite infantry. The Swordmasters are too flimsy without light magic or the banner of the world dragon to protect them and the Phoenix Guard need more ranks to be useful.
Serenity wrote:
Oh, and I love the Loremaster's versatility. So much spells, and all of them useful! If you're worried about character protection in the second list, perhaps the Shield of the Merwyrm can help?

Me too! I love the range of spells. I had considered the shield for the BSB, maybe combined with the sword of might, dragon armour and the luckstone but I'm not sure that a 4+ armour save is enough?

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Last edited by Caradryal on Wed May 22, 2013 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Another question I'd like to put out there regarding list 2.

What are peoples thoughts on the Flamespyre Phoenix? Should I keep it or drop a sister and change it to a Frostheart? I'm asking in regards to how well either bird will mesh with the list.

Thanks

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:44 am 
Offline
Well played Sir
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 7798
Location: Queensland, Australia
I like it, it looks cool. Not sure how well it plays but looking cool counts in my book =P

_________________
Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.
Beastly member of The Mage Knight Guild.
Narrin’Tim wrote:
These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Elessehta of Yvresse wrote:
I like it, it looks cool. Not sure how well it plays but looking cool counts in my book =P

Heh I agree on that much at least. But then the Frostheart also looks pretty cool :lol:

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 11:44 pm
Posts: 24
I voted Loremaster/Phoenix Guard as well since I haven't observed it to be used as much by other contributors here and having someone finally start running it can only add to the conversation about one of the major additions to the Army in the new book.

Regarding Birdy, keep the Flamespyre for now and see how it performs - especially since you have a clearly-defined role for it to perform (and again, also because Flamespyre hasn't seen nearly as much love around here). If you find it doesn't work as well as you want, then you can upgrade to a Frostheart.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Macharius wrote:
I voted Loremaster/Phoenix Guard as well since I haven't observed it to be used as much by other contributors here and having someone finally start running it can only add to the conversation about one of the major additions to the Army in the new book.

Agreed, testing a list that's somewhat unique was one of the main reasons I made that list. It just has a nice feel to it and the voting seems to be leaning that was also. I had been considering a unit of Dragon princes with the star lance or 2 x 5 Dragon Princes over the unit of white lions and I'm still undecided on this. I don't really want to go down that route though as I feel its leaning back towards the cav star approach.
Macharius wrote:
Regarding Birdy, keep the Flamespyre for now and see how it performs - especially since you have a clearly-defined role for it to perform (and again, also because Flamespyre hasn't seen nearly as much love around here). If you find it doesn't work as well as you want, then you can upgrade to a Frostheart.

This is true and I think I will give it a try if I decide to run that list. With the lack of unit destroying spells it will certainly help whittle down those large rank and file units that will otherwise prove to be a problem for the list.

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:08 am
Posts: 59
Location: Maryland, United States
I have to admit to liking the second list a lot better. I'm planning on attending a 2k tournament next month, and as I can't take my Dragon Lord, the list I came up with is remarkably similar to yours (minus some bells and whistles naturally). That said, how do you feel about replacing one of your Reaver units in core with a unit of Silver Helms sporting just a Musician? I'm not sure the extra Reavers are helping you all that much, and for a slight exchange in points you can kick out a couple extra S5 attacks, which helps a lot when clearing chaff. Also, I'm a supporter of keeping the Flamesypre in at the moment. On paper, the Frostheart is a little better. In the context of your army, I think the Flamespyre will contribute more.

_________________
"In time, his victories could not easily be counted"-Conan the Barbarian


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Koradrel of Chrace wrote:
I have to admit to liking the second list a lot better. I'm planning on attending a 2k tournament next month, and as I can't take my Dragon Lord, the list I came up with is remarkably similar to yours (minus some bells and whistles naturally). That said, how do you feel about replacing one of your Reaver units in core with a unit of Silver Helms sporting just a Musician? I'm not sure the extra Reavers are helping you all that much, and for a slight exchange in points you can kick out a couple extra S5 attacks, which helps a lot when clearing chaff.

This is not something I had previously considered. I could drop a unit of reavers and the spears on the other unit to squeeze in 5 shieldless helms. It's not a bad idea on paper as the increased threat range may slow down enemy units. On the flip side I am quite a fan of reavers and it's a decent chaff unit which is quite important in my list. One thing I'm quite keen for the reavers to achieve is war machine hunting in the rear of the enemies lines and I may need the third unit to accomplish this.

However this is a great suggestion and I will bear this in mind upon my first play testing of that list. :D
Koradrel of Chrace wrote:
Also, I'm a supporter of keeping the Flamesypre in at the moment. On paper, the Frostheart is a little better. In the context of your army, I think the Flamespyre will contribute more.

I agree which was the main reason I chose it over the Frostheart. It can still be used to combo charges although it lacks the massive assist from the blizzard aura.

Thanks for the comments and the food for thought.

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:30 am 
Offline
Bond... James Bond
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:13 am
Posts: 2675
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
I would also go with the second list, but there is a much more important question for me. Where are the Shadow Warriors?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Giladis wrote:
I would also go with the second list, but there is a much more important question for me. Where are the Shadow Warriors?

There's 2 reasons for the lack of shadow warriors mate.

a)It's designed to be a competitive list and frankly shadow warriors are sub-optimal at best for their cost :?
b)It's pre-sundering where the shadow warriors didn't exist to my knowledge. Excuse me if I'm wrong here but I haven't read the fluff in a long time.

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 7:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Hey folks

I was going to run the vote for a little longer but it seems that the second list is the clear favourite. Ulthuan has spoken! :D

I will go forward with the second list and see how it plays out (unfortunately I can't play until July now) and develop the list depending on how it performs. For now I will study similar lists from previous editions and talk about the anticipated tactics going forward.

So for reference

Warlock of the Black Tower

Lord

Loremaster
Talisman of Preservation, The book of Hoerth

Heroes

Noble
BSB, Armour of Caledor, Halberd

Mage (Lore of High Magic)
Dispel Scroll, Golden Crown of Atrazar

Core

5 Reavers
Bows, Musician

2 x 5 Reavers
Bows, Spears, Musician

2 x 15 Archers
Musician

Special

22 Phoenix Guard (Loremaster, BSB, Mage here)
FC, Razor Standard

21 White Lions
FC, Banner of the World Dragon

Rare

6 Sisters of Avelorn

Flamespyre Phoenix

3 x Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers

2499 pts

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:10 pm
Posts: 186
Hi!

I really like your list with it's strong infantry focus! The only thing that I'm worried about is the Phoenix, it's your lone target for enemy warmachines, and while it's not every game you'll be facing cannons or stone throwers, ect. But my experience is that the army's that do have warmachines are the once that Elf infantry list normally struggle against. So my only concern is that it will leave you vulnerable in the already bad match-ups, maybe if you added another phoenix or a pair of Eagle nobles or something?

If you should drop the Red Bird you could add a unit of DP and more sisters, or some chariots. Try it out for a few games and tell us how the bird worked for you, and if you find him lacking then trying out some other units for it's points might be better. :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:59 am 
Offline
9th Age Moderator

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:03 pm
Posts: 1906
Damn it, just lost a longish post on internet crash...but you'll benefit from my improved brevity!

1. Love the list - looks a lot like the Tethlis list I'm planning to use as my base, but LM rather than AM
2. Looking fwd to seeing pre-sundering modelling/painting :)
3. Like the idea of 5 helms but agree, stick to this first and see how they do...but maybe drop an infantry and give them shields 3+ vs 2+ for 10pts seems to good to pass up
4. Love that you've squeezed in 3 bolt throwers. I hate the damn things but I think they probably work best in bulk.
5. Why all characters in PG? LM and BSB benefit plenty from BotWD plus Ld9 stubborn if the units happen to seperate beyond 12" in the game. L2 gives PG 3++ with casting our MM so I see that though.
6. Upgrade to frostbird, even if you use the flame model. With two big infantry blocks it will do what it does best.

_________________
The 9th Age: Alumni

Former Roles: Advisory Board, HR, Moderator and Highborn Elves Army Support


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
joey_boy wrote:
Hi!

I really like your list with it's strong infantry focus! The only thing that I'm worried about is the Phoenix, it's your lone target for enemy warmachines, and while it's not every game you'll be facing cannons or stone throwers, ect. But my experience is that the army's that do have warmachines are the once that Elf infantry list normally struggle against. So my only concern is that it will leave you vulnerable in the already bad match-ups, maybe if you added another phoenix or a pair of Eagle nobles or something?

If you should drop the Red Bird you could add a unit of DP and more sisters, or some chariots. Try it out for a few games and tell us how the bird worked for you, and if you find him lacking then trying out some other units for it's points might be better. :)

Hey Joey,

Quite a lot of ideas and suggestions here so I'll address them one at a time

The Phoenix - I also have my concerns as to it's vulnerability and I agree war machines are definitely an issue for use, particularly templates. Another phoenix as much as I'd like one is out of the question due to out rare allowances and I really want to see those Eagle Claw's in the list. I have been considering changing it to a Frostheart due to the increased survivability. The Eagle nobles is not a line I really want to go down as I'd be investing far too much in chars for my liking should I kit them out for any degree of survivability. Plus if my bird is a cannon magnet I think that will be double so for eagle nobles :D

Dropping the Phoenix - Chariots are a no-no in my book. Some people get on with them well and show impressive results. For me, way too flimsy. If you told me I could take a DE or WoC chariot I'd happily snap your arm off though :lol: . The DP suggestion has merit and I have a certain affection for our Caledorian friends, in this case I would probably add another RBT alongside them or top off the elite infantry.

Thanks for the suggestions

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Ferny
Ferny wrote:
Damn it, just lost a longish post on internet crash...but you'll benefit from my improved brevity!

You have my deepest sympathy mate, I hate it when this happens, it's usually followed by several curse words and much grumbling :evil:
Ferny wrote:
1. Love the list - looks a lot like the Tethlis list I'm planning to use as my base, but LM rather than AM
2. Looking fwd to seeing pre-sundering modelling/painting :)
3. Like the idea of 5 helms but agree, stick to this first and see how they do...but maybe drop an infantry and give them shields 3+ vs 2+ for 10pts seems to good to pass up
4. Love that you've squeezed in 3 bolt throwers. I hate the damn things but I think they probably work best in bulk.
5. Why all characters in PG? LM and BSB benefit plenty from BotWD plus Ld9 stubborn if the units happen to seperate beyond 12" in the game. L2 gives PG 3++ with casting our MM so I see that though.
6. Upgrade to frostbird, even if you use the flame model. With two big infantry blocks it will do what it does best.

Once again a lot of ideas so I'll address these one at a time

1) Thanks! I have a lot of reading to do. I haven't even checked out Tethlis's new blog yet :shock:
2) Hehe I hope it turns out well I haven't done a lot of converting yet.
3) That's true I'm sure I could find points somewhere should I decide to do that.
4) I'd love to take 4! Damn rare points allowance. Finally worth it at 70 pts I feel.
5) More for protecting the Scroll caddy to be honest. Dropping them in the lions forces me to place them all in the front rank. I might have a play about with this later on though and see what I can come up with. I could stick the LM and BSB in the WL and leave the lvl 1 in the PG but this means he's dead the moment they reach combat.
6) This is one that I'm still 50/50 on. The Frostheart's rules are great and he's excellent for pinning a unit for a combined charge. The Flamespyre also has a definitive role in the list so I think I'm going to have to playtest both :D

Also many thanks for the comments

I may draft a slight variant on this list later on and see how it pans out using some of the suggestions put forward.

Caradryal

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:32 pm 
Offline
9th Age Moderator

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:03 pm
Posts: 1906
Sounds good :).

I still reckon it's a wasted opportunity to put all your characters in the PG on the basis of lost protection from BotWD, especially to protect your most throw-away character (especially once he's burnt his scroll).

But then again, if you know you're not facing death then that's one less reason to include them in the lions. And the LM with BoH isn't likely to be throwing fists of dice at spells so isn't that likely to miscast, even with the re-roll, and the PG unit is 4++ anyway (3++ following the Lv2 spell), so you're only losing a pip or two of Ward Save, and lets face it, until 8th BotWD, 4++ was the bees knees! So the only thing you'd really lose is the 2++vs characters and protection for your LM on the miscast - if you do miscast on (usually) 1-2 dice casting! And you do benefit from increased combat output for the PG unit. There - I've almost talked myself into doing it your way :wink:

_________________
The 9th Age: Alumni

Former Roles: Advisory Board, HR, Moderator and Highborn Elves Army Support


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:41 am 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
Caradryal wrote:
Hello fellow Ulthuanites (is that the correct term? :))

This will be the list I will be taking forward into 8th edition. I had two lists originally and I put up a poll asking fellow members to help me decided on a basic template. The Loremaster won through over the cav star style (see discussion below for reference) and I'm looking forward to testing to testing it's prowess on the battlefield.

I will be going for a Nagarythe theme for my paint scheme and hopefully I can fit some of the pre sundering type feel into my elves.

Current List (2500 pts)

Warlock of the Black Tower

Lord

Loremaster
Talisman of Preservation, The book of Hoerth

Heroes

Noble
BSB, Armour of Caledor, Halberd

Mage (Lore of High Magic)
Dispel Scroll, Golden Crown of Atrazar

Core

5 Reavers
Bows, Musician

2 x 5 Reavers
Bows, Spears, Musician

2 x 15 Archers
Musician

Special

22 Phoenix Guard (Loremaster, BSB, Mage here)
FC, Razor Standard

21 White Lions
FC, Banner of the World Dragon

Rare

6 Sisters of Avelorn

Flamespyre Phoenix

3 x Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers

2499 pts


I originally voted for the cavstar, but it's a good thing we're seeing some variety, at least initially. Let's see here... First, I'd either change the BSB's equipment or his type. Either Lothern Sea Helm for Naval Discipline or some utility. 2+ simply doesn't give you anything. Reaver bow + Potion of Strength is an option. The High Mage I think is far better off with utility item(s) than the Crown, e.g. give him Ring of Fury. This gives you a fearsome array of magic missiles to choose from and allow you to spend your dice as you see fit. Alternatively, MR(1) isn't a bad choice on him as the PG will be very tough to destroy.

Core, decent setup but I believe spears + bows to be a huge waste. Reavers are going to die, period. Thus, you want to minimize the cost when they do. While both bows and spears have value depending on role, taking but just makes them too expensive. I'd rather take 1+2 or 2+1 depending on preference and invest the remaining points in Archers. Alternatively, you can mount the BSB with Star Lance + Crown of Atrazar for counter-attack opportunities and include a Helm-dart.

Special, I think it's a very very poor idea to have all characters in one unit. While I see the point about Loremaster + Mage for 3++, the unit quickly becomes expensive without really having that much killing power. Sure, they can hold against most things but they can't really kill stuff very fast. Furthermore, roadblocks can ruin your day a lot. If you want to take a unit such as this I would advice you to bring the Sea Helm at the very least, giving you a lot more flexibility.

Rare, please take the Frostheart ;) It's just so amazing and unless you constantly face off against millions of Skaven etc you will find the Firebird to be too weak.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Ferny wrote:
Sounds good :).

I still reckon it's a wasted opportunity to put all your characters in the PG on the basis of lost protection from BotWD, especially to protect your most throw-away character (especially once he's burnt his scroll).

But then again, if you know you're not facing death then that's one less reason to include them in the lions. And the LM with BoH isn't likely to be throwing fists of dice at spells so isn't that likely to miscast, even with the re-roll, and the PG unit is 4++ anyway (3++ following the Lv2 spell), so you're only losing a pip or two of Ward Save, and lets face it, until 8th BotWD, 4++ was the bees knees! So the only thing you'd really lose is the 2++vs characters and protection for your LM on the miscast - if you do miscast on (usually) 1-2 dice casting! And you do benefit from increased combat output for the PG unit. There - I've almost talked myself into doing it your way :wink:


Heh I think I've been brought around to your way of thinking to be honest. Please see the new idea I've had :)

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Curu Olannon wrote:
I originally voted for the cavstar, but it's a good thing we're seeing some variety, at least initially. Let's see here... First, I'd either change the BSB's equipment or his type. Either Lothern Sea Helm for Naval Discipline or some utility. 2+ simply doesn't give you anything. Reaver bow + Potion of Strength is an option. The High Mage I think is far better off with utility item(s) than the Crown, e.g. give him Ring of Fury. This gives you a fearsome array of magic missiles to choose from and allow you to spend your dice as you see fit. Alternatively, MR(1) isn't a bad choice on him as the PG will be very tough to destroy.

Yeah the BSB is an issue. The 2+ just doesn't feel safe enough without the rerolls from the dawnstone. The all my eggs in one basket had me a little concerned and it's not the first time this has been raised. The crown on the mage was more a way of using 10pts and keeping him slightly safer should he get pushed forward into the front rank.
Curu Olannon wrote:
Core, decent setup but I believe spears + bows to be a huge waste. Reavers are going to die, period. Thus, you want to minimize the cost when they do. While both bows and spears have value depending on role, taking but just makes them too expensive. I'd rather take 1+2 or 2+1 depending on preference and invest the remaining points in Archers. Alternatively, you can mount the BSB with Star Lance + Crown of Atrazar for counter-attack opportunities and include a Helm-dart.

All good points, it was more a method of using spare core points. I will drop in a couple more archers instead. The helm dart has it's merits but I'm not completely sold on it. My personal preference is more Reavers for redirection as I'm moving away from Eagles in this edition.
Curu Olannon wrote:
Special, I think it's a very very poor idea to have all characters in one unit. While I see the point about Loremaster + Mage for 3++, the unit quickly becomes expensive without really having that much killing power. Sure, they can hold against most things but they can't really kill stuff very fast. Furthermore, roadblocks can ruin your day a lot. If you want to take a unit such as this I would advice you to bring the Sea Helm at the very least, giving you a lot more flexibility.

Again agreed, I have changed the list about and will post it below. I think I will move the Loremaster under the protection of the BoTWD for extra protection. I will have to keep them relatively close to the P Guard so I can drop Wildform on them. The Life Sig should come in handy on the lions anyway :).
Curu Olannon wrote:
Rare, please take the Frostheart ;) It's just so amazing and unless you constantly face off against millions of Skaven etc you will find the Firebird to be too weak.

Done! I was 50/50 on these 2 and it's another roadblock if nothing else.

Thanks for the comments both :)

Caradryal

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 6:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 599
Hey Folks

I've revised the Loremaster list based on several of the comments I've had and I've come up with the following.

Lord

Loremaster
The Book of Hoerth, Talisman of Preservation

Heroes

Mage
Dispel Scroll

Noble
BSB, Heavy Armour, Reaver Bow, Potion of Strength, Crown of Atrazar, Great Weapon

Core

2 x 16 Archers
Musician

3 x 5 Ellyrion Reavers
Bows, Musician

Special

20 Phoenix Guard
FC, Razor Standard

20 White Lions (3x7 Loremaster Here)
FC, Banner of The World Dragon

Rare

9 x Sisters of Avelorn (3x3)

3 x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

Frostheart Phoenix

2499 pts

The list is slightly more shooty than before and the chars have moved about a bit. The Reaver bow and pot of strength adds another element of danger to my shooting phase.

Some points

1) The Loremaster gains added miscast protection and safety against magic weapons. This stops him being so fragile. He also gains the benefit of the stubborn special rule. He can also bring the Life sig spell into effect.
2) The extra sisters and str8 shots from the bsb should combine nicely for taking down big regenerating nasties like hell pits and terrorgheists.
3) The Frostheart is a bit tougher than the Flamespyre and will give my CC units a little extra protection when used in combo charges.
4) The BSB is probably safer with the archers even with his reduced protection and he can keep the back line a little more steady with the Hold Your Ground! special rule.
5) The phoenix block is decidedly less choppy but I think when given wyssans and combined with the Razor standard they should be fine.
6) The chars are not all in one unit so I can't lose them all in one fell swoop from a well planned charge. :shock:

I do now feel somewhat thin on the ground regarding infantry though. I could swap out the phoenix guard for 2 medium size units of swordmasters or swap out the bird for Dragon Princes perhaps but I will have to play test first I think.

As always I'm looking forward to hearing Ulthuans wisdom

Thanks for reading

Caradryal

_________________
New Blog - Warlock of the Black Tower(8th Edition)
Ogre Blog - The Manglegut Tribe

Caradryal's Host (HE) W 1 D 0 L 1
The Manglegut Tribe (Ogres) W 3 D0 L2


Last edited by Caradryal on Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group