John Rainbow's Adventures - Short Tournament Report

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Curu Olannon
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#211 Post by Curu Olannon »

List options: good to see the BSB go in. As far as Ashur goes, I`m by no means convinced it`s the best, but I believe trying it out has some merit. I believe that getting 12PD with the BoS + 3-4 mages is roughly 20% to happen, which means that every 5th magic phase, your jewel will be wasted. Also, the jewel is bound to a mage. Not necessarily bad, but worth considering. Speaking of which, how do you think the Ring of Fury would go with the Coven? It`s an interesting and annoying item to throw 1D6 at in the start of a phase - seriously hurting redirectors and chaff, while being capable of killing squishy elites etc. Essentially, it`s almost as good as Banishment vs e.g. Dark Elf Black Guard. It`s also tremendously useful against shooty armies such as Wood Elves. Just a thought ;)

Deployment: This was brilliant. I have no idea how you out-deployed him that badly: his busses shouldn`t be that spread and you have a perfect refused flank.

T1: movement is good. Magic - you say you get 12PD but list casting strategy as 4+4+3. What happened to the last dice? Casting priority is perfect :)

T2: good casting again. 5D6 Banishment seems a tad too much though, 4D6 should be plenty for an opener, unless you had to boost it. Again, the miscast chance is worth considering.

T3: the comet is seriously impacting your ability to play as you please here. I feel you`re a little too afraid, with the big archers 2D6 hits shouldn`t be a problem and you could`ve followed up more closely for bubble-spells, in my opinion. With regards to the movement here, as far as I can tell the lances are only seriously threatening your Archers. By moving them 3" to the left, any chargers who decide to overrun will end up outside of the board - not a bad idea as it costs them an extra turn (at least). I feel that sacrificing an Eagle here is a bit premature. Also, with the Knights in the center I believe you can hold for one more turn. Granted, the comet changes it, so it`s probably not the worst of ideas, the problem is the increasing distance between the support and re-rolls and the fighters.

T4: Banishment -> support ensures he holds his dice, good call. While the eventual IF Banishment went through, getting some nice-to-haves in-between is very nice! Movement is also good here, your position is surprisingly advantageous considering the state at the end of your T3.

T5: here, I am confused. Given the position of the knight busses it appears you would be able to block both units with a single Eagle! Is this correct? If yes, moving up the Swordmasters (for a lance to overrun into) and the Lions to a flank would`ve been completely devastating.

Overall well played, a deserved victory for sure :) As for comet, it`s an unpredictable spell and it really isn`t that devastating most of the time.
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#212 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

Basementhammer! :3

Thanks for posting - good read! :3
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#213 Post by Jimmy »

A very enjoyable battle report JR. Nice work.
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#214 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi John,

Great to see some real life battle report! Your miniatures look great, in particular White Lions unit with nice unit fillers in the form of Lions!

I am glad to see Swordmasters can be "stubborn" once in a while and when it matters too!

Congratulations on your win! =D>
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John Rainbow
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#215 Post by John Rainbow »

Hey everyone, to those who posted, thanks for reading and thank you for the kind words! It's nice to get a 'proper' BatRep back up on here for a change.
Curu Olannon wrote:good to see the BSB go in
Yeah I think it needed to happen. Playing with a BSB makes such a huge difference. I just have to be sure to stay within his bubble now - not usually too difficult given the defensive/castling nature of the list.
Curu Olannon wrote:Speaking of which, how do you think the Ring of Fury would go with the Coven?
So I am thinking of putting a ring on it so to speak but not this one... I'm contemplating changing from the Jewel of the Dusk to the Ring of Corin. Basically this is going to depend on what happens to the Banner of Sundering in the new Daemon book. I think if the banner is in, I have to make space for Vauls in an all-comers environment. Obviously it's also useful in other situations too i.e. Hellheart, Crown of Command, etc.

As for the Ring of Fury, I'm not sure it goes too well with this list for several reasons. Firstly, as it is used in the magic phase, lets look at magic. The ring uses a single die and as you say is pretty good for clearing chaff. Assuming I switch to the Ring of Corin from the Jewel of Dusk, I will generate (on average) 7 dice + 2 from BoS + maybe 1 channel so 10 dice. For the first two turns these usually go into Banishment with 4d and 4d (or similar). This then leaves a couple of dice for something like Pha's if I need it. I don't see the Ring of Fury being that useful here purely because (a) those extra non-banishment dice are most likely prioritised for something else and (b) I will probably have Shem's on a lvl.1 (or even my Archmage) which can perform pretty much the same function - maybe not quite as well though. So, issue number 1 then is that magic dice are more than likely to be used elsewhere and I already have some decent single die magic missile options if required. These options could be cast at the start of the phase from a lvl.1 or at the end from the lvl.4.

The second reason for not taking the Ring of Fury: killing chaff or squishy elites as you put it is generally not too big of a deal with the all-archer core! Let's be honest, they don't kill much but they can kill chaff reasonably well! I'm not sure I need the extra help from the ring in this department. Obviously there is also the lesser issue of finding the points for it which either means less SMs or WLs.

Does this seem a reasonable arguement against the item? Please provide a counter if you think this merits further discussion.
Curu Olannon wrote:you say you get 12PD but list casting strategy as 4+4+3. What happened to the last dice? Casting priority is perfect
Not entirely sure about the dice here. My notes must be incorrect about something...

I think with your help, and that of Brewmaster's blog, my casting strategy has become exponentially better. Props to you guys. It's a shame the 'Coven (Brew)Master' hasn't been seen around these parts for a while so I can't thank him properly.
Curu Olannon wrote:Deployment: This was brilliant. I have no idea how you out-deployed him that badly: his busses shouldn`t be that spread and you have a perfect refused flank.
My opponent put down his archers first and I think their position hampered his placement of his buses to a large extent - or at least meant they couldn't be too close together. I think the terrain also favoured me - and yes my opponent placed on of the central towers. Maybe not the best move for him to make in terrain placement.
Curu Olannon wrote:the comet is seriously impacting your ability to play as you please here
You're probably correct about me being a little overcautious with the comet. I think the fact that it didn't come down unit too late was a big factor in my win - it certainly helps to have almost full strength units of lions and SMs going into combat against 2+/5++. Moving my archers up would probably have been a good decision as you say to remain in range of buffs. AI imagine I could weather a comet hit with the bunker as long as it comes down earlier than it did - the most likely outcome. As it happened though, the comet had more than 10 markers on it when it came down at the end game meaning I would take somewhere in the region of 17 hits at Str.10 on average. I'm not sure the bunker could weather this if the hit was better than this. I guess it all worked out in the end this time but it's definitely something I should bear in mind.
Curu Olannon wrote:Given the position of the knight busses it appears you would be able to block both units with a single Eagle! Is this correct? If yes, moving up the Swordmasters (for a lance to overrun into) and the Lions to a flank would`ve been completely devastating.
I actually thought I'd blocked him completely as you mention. My opponent thought otherwise and it was friendly game so I let it go. I think I'd make more of a fuss about it in a more competitive environment and call a judge or something.

As it happened we played this completely wrong anyway and there were characters charging out of units that then went on to charge themselves - all of which is wrong. I think it was me who told Seredain on his blog that only one of his heroes could charge out of the bus per turn and then the bus can't charge. I then proceeded to forget this myself... Doh!
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:Great to see some real life battle report! Your miniatures look great, in particular White Lions unit with nice unit fillers in the form of Lions!
Thanks! I'm almost done with the entire list, over the weekend I managed to sort out a few more of the archers so I'm probably on course to have the list fully painted by early March depending on real life... It certainly feels good to play with painted minis.
~Milliardo~ wrote:Basementhammer! :3
Haha! The basement at my place has become Warhammer HQ recently. We can leave the tables up and it's reasonably well lit...
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Curu Olannon
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#216 Post by Curu Olannon »

Corin is interesting and very powerful in closed lists environments. Ring of Fury - point taken, leave it at home ;)

The charging thingy sounded like a real headache. Or at least it would've been if it had been a more serious game. I usually try and have a friendly tone with my opponents, which has worked well in everything from fun games to tournaments. As such, it's easy to name your intentions and agree with your opponent during your own turn with regards to Eagle-blocking etc. Makes life easier :)

Also, Basementhammer for the win ;)
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

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John Rainbow
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#217 Post by John Rainbow »

Painting Update
I have now finished painting the Coven list in its entirety. I can now field an all archer core with a max. 54 archers in 3 units (all with banners, musicians, etc). I also finished off the last two SMs I needed to do. I'll try and snap a completed army shot at some point showing off the whole lot.

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Above are the archers did - around 30 minis in two units. I am pretty happy with them although I'm still not sure I like the flaming banner in the second unit. I am really happy with the cloud banner in the first unit though. Does anyone have thoughts on this? I can pretty easily change it up. I paint my banners on paper so making another one isn't too hard.

I also found a few pics of my Dragon Lord from way back when... he does have a finished base and stuff now but thought you might like to see these:
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#218 Post by John Rainbow »

I'm playing a doubles event as a fun change of pace with a friend. We're going to run Lizards and HE, the fluff being that the HE are led by a pair of mages who are emissaries from the White Tower. Currently the list is something like this:

Mage(2)+silver wand (General)
Mage(2)+scroll

14 Archers + MS, Flaming Banner
11 Archers + M

14 Sword Masters + CMS, Am.Light
20 White Lions + CMS, Gem Courage

Going with the 'theme', the archers will be the ships crew, SMs the bodyguard dispatched with the mages and the WLs were sent with them to help navigate the forests/jungles of Lustria. I'm torn between both mages taking High magic or a mix of Metal/Death. Do you guys have any thoughts or ideas on this or the theme? My main issue is that I don't have a BSB and we all know how that ends up...
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Elithmar
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#219 Post by Elithmar »

I love the banners - very good freehand and I like the writing on them too.
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Curu Olannon
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#220 Post by Curu Olannon »

John Rainbow wrote:I'm playing a doubles event as a fun change of pace with a friend. We're going to run Lizards and HE, the fluff being that the HE are led by a pair of mages who are emissaries from the White Tower. Currently the list is something like this:

Mage(2)+silver wand (General)
Mage(2)+scroll

14 Archers + MS, Flaming Banner
11 Archers + M

14 Sword Masters + CMS, Am.Light
20 White Lions + CMS, Gem Courage

Going with the 'theme', the archers will be the ships crew, SMs the bodyguard dispatched with the mages and the WLs were sent with them to help navigate the forests/jungles of Lustria. I'm torn between both mages taking High magic or a mix of Metal/Death. Do you guys have any thoughts or ideas on this or the theme? My main issue is that I don't have a BSB and we all know how that ends up...
Swap a mage for a BSB and give him Death with Radiant Gem of Hoeth. Give him a Great Weapon and he's a Scholar ;) The other mage can go Silver Wand + Ring of Fury + High Magic. Good times!
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#221 Post by Th3_5had0w_K1ng »

Glad to see that mage getting some battles in. Sorry that you didn't like the skull base. It was a stretch and I really wanted to paint it but no matter. Next time you use him you should do a gratuitous photo op with your other units for my viewing pleasure. =P~
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#222 Post by JoeElf »

Great Battle report! Really like all the constructive feedback. Models look great too! Keep up the good work!
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#223 Post by John Rainbow »

Update 2/26/13
With real life getting far too 'real' at the moment, I haven't really had much time to sort out a couple of BatReps I've got outstanding. In the end I've decided to just put up some short descriptions along with my thoughts on what this means for my list, etc. Hopefully with these out of the way I can get back on track with some 'proper' BatReps in the future.

In all of these games I used the following list:
Archmage(4)+Dusk Jewel, Ironcurse
Seermage[Phas, Banishment]
Mage(1)+Annulian
BSB+RGoH, GW,HA

24 Archers +MS, Flaming
14 Archers +M
14 Archers +M

24 WLs +CMS, BoS,Am.Light
14 SMs +CMS, Gleaming Pennant
14 SMs +CMS

2 x Great Eagle
Game 1 v. (New) Warriors of Chaos
In this game I faced a Warriors list with a Tzeentch DP (lvl.4), 4 Skullcrushers and several big Warrior Blocks.

My deployment:
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The standard 'Coven Castle'.

Several turns in...
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The nice big water feature that I castled up behind is clearly visible. The WLs and SMs are fresh from sticking it to a unit of Skullcrushers on this flank (silly placement by my opponent) and are back on their way towards dealing with the rest of the Warriors.

The DP has been dealt with by Banishment. Even a Tzeentch DP with a 4++, rerolling 1's is not match for a decent Banishment!

Image
Eventually the WLs and SMs get into CC with the Warriors, buffed by both Timewarp and Phas. I deal a total of 5 wounds after all those attacks and promptly run away. This loses me the game.

Game 2 v. New Warriors of Chaos (again)
This time I faced a slightly different list - there were still Warriors but these were backed up by the monster mash! My opponent had a Tzeentch Dp, 2 Chimeras, 4 Skullcrushers and some Warriors rocking out at the back of the table.

Deployment shots:
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A couple of turns in:
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My forces are moving towards the enemy, the DP and Chimeras having been dealt with already. Both Chimeras were dealt with at range (boosted Shem's for the win against Chimeras) and the DP was actually dealt with by the BSB in CC - a heroic sacrifice indeed. I had managed to Banish the DP down to one wound before he charged into my Coven bunker. I was expecting disaster due to the new Soul Feeder rules but my BSB decided to step up to the plate - on 1W it would be my best chance to kill the Daemon Prince. The brave BSB managed to put a single wound through onto the DP and kill him but was killed by the DPs ASF return attacks (Helm of Many Eyes). Fortunately Soul Feeder was of no benefit ot my opponent and the combatants both slumped lifelessly to the ground and I had gotten pretty lucky.

This is pretty much the endgame here with my WLs and SMs (both buffed with Phas) engaging the proxied Skullcrushers and about to kill them before moving onto the rest of the Warriors.

v. Lizardmen
Game 3 is against a Lizardman list with frog, 2 scar vets, krox block and 2 suarus blocks. There were some sallies and terradons in there too along with a steg (banishment fodder!). The Slann is tooled to the max with cupped hands, becalming, rumination, etc, etc which is an entirely awful combination.

Deployment:
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I actually thought I had deployed pretty badly here with the two central impassable objects (house and rocks) really making things congested in the middle and the lizardmen split pretty well - Slann on my left flank relatively unopposed with the steg in support and chameleon skinks on the right.

After both T1s
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We both fluffed our magic phase in T1, the Slann failed a 3d miama (triple 1s) and I failed a 6d boosted Timewarp. Over the entire game there was some generally very poor rolling on both sides.

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Somehow I managed to survey a couple of turns and get my SMs into combat with the Slann's unit (Saurus and Scar Vet.) whilst blocking the Steg with an eagle. Both Phas and Speed of Light are buffing the SMs and they target the Scar Vet in CC - if he dies the Slann has to come to the front of the unit out of the second rank and I stand a chance at pulling something out of the bag - I reasoned trying to kill the characters was a better choice than trying to beat the unit on combat res and forcing them to flee as they would be steadfast for a good time whilst I would only reasonably get a couple of turns of attacks on the unit before my fragile SMs were destroyed.

My ploy paid off and in the first turn of CC I cut down the Scar Vet and a bunch of Saurus. This forced the Slann to come to the front and he was eventually killed in the 3rd round of CC along with the Stegadon which had charged in with 1W remaining after being Banished.

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As you can see this act of valour cost the SMs their lives int he end but allowed me to control the magic phase totally. Somehow I managed to eke out a win with some decent use of buffs rather than magic missiles.

Summary
Thoughts about new Warriors:
Playing against the new 'Chaos Monster Mash' is absolutely horrible. Warriors of Chaos have certainly lost nothing with the new book and seem to have gained some really cool (and really good) stuff. I am dreading playing against an all-Troll core list supported with Chimeras, a DP and Skullcrushers. That would be brutal.

The main issue with the monster mash is the speed of all the units, realistically they can be in combat by T2 and with so many threatening units it is almost impossible to do enough damage to the list before it hits home. This is especially true with the Coven approach as the magical artillery is likely to be dispelled in T1 using a scroll or something. What this boils down to is that against this list, the Coven almost has to get the first turn in order to avoid destruction. My first magic phase will be nullified with a scroll meaning I am reliant on getting a T2 phase to either inflict the necessary damage or buff my units. I am therefore considering putting the Skeinsliver into the list to try and counter this problem.

Tzeentch is an almost useless lore now - it has gone from the best to the worst of the new lot. Gifting regen to anyone you damage is pretty fluffy but a horrible in-game ability. The fact this then increases with further hits means that the spells are only really good at taking down chaff or small, weak units. I was also afraid of the Glean Magic spell but in the end, didn't have any issues with it at all.

v. uncomped Lizardmen thoughts:
I am playing without comp at the moment due to my games being Adepticon prep. themed and Adepticon doesn't do comp. Lizardmen are horrible in these circumstances. A beefy Slann is almost impossible to play against and in my game I ended up moving my mages all over the board to avoid Becalming. I did get hit with Cupped Hands (luckily avoided being 'sucked into the void' after the miscast was double 1's) but things like this are truly terrifying for the Coven. This issue with the Slann was partly due to my poor deployment however, allowing him the ability to move into becalming range and get LoS to my Coven bunker.

Granted I am playing with a pretty decent list but I'm starting to get a bit nervous about what I might see at Adepticon where others are playing with some WAAC lists that I might have no answer to...

... I'm still not switching to Teclis though!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curu Olannon wrote:Swap a mage for a BSB and give him Death with Radiant Gem of Hoeth. Give him a Great Weapon and he's a Scholar ;) The other mage can go Silver Wand + Ring of Fury + High Magic. Good times!
Sounds like a decent idea, especially as I can't use my allies BSB for rerolls - even though we are trusted allies or whatever the phrase is. I'll post up a modified list later.
Th3_5had0w_K1ng wrote:Glad to see that mage getting some battles in. Sorry that you didn't like the skull base. It was a stretch and I really wanted to paint it but no matter. Next time you use him you should do a gratuitous photo op with your other units for my viewing pleasure. =P~
Yeah I love the model! He is my 'Seermage'. I did want to keep the skull base but he didn't fit in the archer unit when I tried to rank it up with the base so I had to take it off :( I'll grab some group army shots (with the mage included) at a later date.
JoeElf wrote:Great Battle report! Really like all the constructive feedback. Models look great too! Keep up the good w
Thanks Joe. Glad people find it useful.
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Elithmar
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#224 Post by Elithmar »

Thanks for the reports, even if they were a bit light on detail. Sometimes it's best just to get them out of the way to get up to date. :)

In the last game, I take it the Slann had shadow? With not many missile or damage spells, he wasn't much of a threat at range. Could you have waited for him to come to you so you'd have more time to shoot and magic missile the approaching units before engaging with sword masters? I suppose you had to stay out of range of all his nasty items.
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John Rainbow
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#225 Post by John Rainbow »

2400pt. Coven v. Warriors of Chaos
A few days ago I played against the new Warriors of Chaos on Universal Battle. I was using my 2400pt Coven of Light list for Adepticon as follows:
Archmage(4)+Dusk Jewel, Ironcurse
Seermage[Phas, Banishment]
Mage(1)+Annulian
BSB+RGoH, GW,HA

24 Archers +MS, Flaming
14 Archers +M
14 Archers +M

24 WLs +CMS, BoS,Am.Light
14 SMs +CMS, Gleaming Pennant
14 SMs +CMS

2 x Great Eagle
My opponent brought this lot to the (artificial) table:
Tzeentch Daemon Prince(3)[Metal] + 1+, 4++, Soul Feeder, Sword of Striking
Sorceror(2)[Shadow]+scroll
BSB

22 Nurgle Warriors
Chariot of Nurgle
5 Warhounds
5 Warhounds + vanguard

2 Chimeras
2 x 3 Skull Crushers
Deployment
Image
Deployment went reasonably well for me in that my opponent committed his Chimeras before I had placed the bulk of my forces (I think his deployment strategy was a bit off). This early placement meant that I was able to castle up in the opposite corner and would be able to deal with his flying monsters one at a time. A big problem I have had with playing against the new Warriors of Chaos is that with the speed of their new book, they can be on top of the Coven before my Banishments have time to take effect. With the deployment as it was, I felt that I would have a good chance to do some damage at range before getting stuck into CC. Note that the one archer unit and mage are deployed in the building.

Rolling for spells we got:

Archmage: Shems, Net of Amyntok, Banishment, Timewarp
Seermage: Phas, Banishment
Mage: Shems
Radiant Gem BSB: Phas
Tzeentch DP(3)[Metal]: Searing Doom, Transmutation of Lead, Plague of Rust [not the best selection against HE!]
Sorceror(2)[Shadow]: Miasma, Pit of Shades

Luckily the Chaos forces had rolled up some pretty poor spells – at least for use against my HE forces. I was only really going to need to be worried about Miasma. Adding to the good news, I got the first turn, despite the Chaos forces being deployed ahead of the High Elves.

HE 1
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The High Elves moved minimally to consolidate their castled up positions and we moved straight to magic. The dice came up 8v4 and two casts of Banishment on 4d each were both successful. The first attempt was scrolled but the second went through after a poor dispel attempt by my opponent. 3W on the Daemon Prince was the result of the phase.

In the shooting phase, the left-most unit of hounds was destroyed by combined archer fire.

WoC 1
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The Warriors began their implacable advance across the board in an attempt to engage the High Elves up close in later turns. Magic was 8v7 after channels/crystal and no spells got through the defences of the mighty High Elf mages.

HE 2
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As the Warriors drew near, a lone eagle moved up to block the Skullcrushers and hopefully delay the enemy advance whilst the mages concentrated on banishing the Daemon Prince back to the Chaos realm.

The winds blew strongly for the HE and another imbalanced phase resulted with 10v6 dice. A 4d(19) Banishment was initially dispelled with all 6 of the opposing dispel dice and the follow up cast of Banishment on 3d dealt 9 hits to the Daemon. Unfortunately, and in an unlikely result, the Daemon managed to save all 9W! He would definitely be able to make it into combat next turn! To this end, the mages united to cast a bubble of Pha’s Protection using 3d.

The High Elven archers again vented their anger on the Warhounds and 3 of the second unit fell to the floor as the rest of the dogs fled.

WoC 2
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As the distance between the armies had closed, there were many charges declared. The ‘unfortunately for me’ still living Daemon Prince charged my White Lions who were 17” away. This was successful. Both Chimera’s declared long charges on the Sword Masters to the right of the building but failed in their efforts and shambled forwards a few inches. The Skullcrushers charged the blocking eagle and the Warhounds rallied before general movement took place.

The winds were not kind to the Warriors and blew 5v5 dice. A single casting attempt at Miasma on the WLs was successful despite a dispel attempt and they had all their stats reduced by 1.

In close combat the Eagle was stomped by the Skullcrushers. The victorious jugger-knights could not overrun far however due to the placement of the Chimera which had failed it’s charge.

The combat with the Daemon Prince went badly, even protected by Pha’s the WLs were cut down in droves after failing to wound the DP. 9 brave Elves fell to the floor and the vile Daemon fed on their souls to heal 2W.

HE 3
Image
The Sword Masters declared a charge on the Daemon Prince and were successful in their attempt to lend aid to their White Lion brethren. I justified this move with the knowledge that I needed to contain the DP while I dealt with the rest of the Warriors. There was also the off chance that the Sword Masters and White Lions combined might kill the Daemon Prince – very, very unlikely with the 1+/4++ with Tzeentch reroll but possible…
The remaining Eagle knew his role and moved up to speed bump the flanking Chaos forces.

The dice gods granted 9 PD to the Elves in comparison to the Warriors 5 DD. An initial cast of Banishment on 4d(18) destroyed the closest Chimera and caused the second to flee away from the destroyed unit.

The remaining dice were used for Timewarp on the WLs (my opponent had all his dice left still so I needed all of mine)which went off with irresistible force. The result of the miscast was that the Archmage became a lvl.3 and lost all knowledge of the Timewarp spell… “time-what-now?” he could be heard mumbling…

Shooting put a single wound on the fleeing Chimera and 1W on the Skullcrushers.

In close combat, the WLs & SMs failed to wound the Daemon and in return, 7 Lions were cut down. The DP regenerated a wound from this and was back up to it’s starting strength.

WoC 3
Image
With the chimeras dead or fleeing, it was left to the chariot to charge the Sword Masters defending the right flank of the Elven army. Needing an 18”(ish) the chariot was successful in its attempt. The Skull Crushers on the left also attempted a charge on the same SMs unit but were unsuccessful. The rest of the Warriors moved up at pace although they left the blocking eagle alone.

Another poor magic phase for the forces of Chaos saw no spells get through the Elven defences and we moved straight to shooting…

… there was no shooting.

So we moved onto combat and started with the DP. The HE somehow managed to dole out a single wound before 2 Lions fell. This time no souls were fed on though. The SMs put 3W on the Chariot and took 3W in return. They held on steadfast.

HE 4
Image
Again there was little movement on the HE side although the Coven shifted position to get into a better position for some magical bombardment. The winds came up 10v4, oh how I love the Jewel and the BoD and 4 attempts at channels, and the initial cast of Shems on the remaining chimera – 5d(18) – resulted in a very dead and very burnt monster. This was followed up with a 4d(20) Banishment on the Skullcrushers and 4W were dealt. 1d was used for Phas on the SMs on the right flank.

Getting back to the norm for me, shooting was ineffective this turn.

Up close and personal, the nurgle chariot was chopped into rotten splinters and another wound was dealt to the Daemon Prince. In retaliation he smote down 6 White Lions but could not regenerate any wounds. There weren’t many left now and the remaining warriors reformed to get more attacks on the DP.

WoC 4
Image
The Skullcrushers finally decided it was time to kill that annoying eagle and declared the obvious charge. The other unit of Skull Crushers declared on the ‘Coven bunker’ unit of archers (the big unit) and somehow managed to lose one of their number to a stand and shoot reaction then fail there charge. The distance was 18” so I guess it was an unlikely one. Instead they moved 6” forwards.

Finally the Chaos forces were dealt a decent hand in the magic phase and received 9v6 dice. A 4d(IF) miasma took 2 off all of that stats of the Sword Masters (defending the building) and resulted in a wound on the sorcerer and 3 dead warriors. A single power die was lost from the pool. The next cast of Pit of Shades on 4d(21) somehow managed to get through the 6DD defence of the HE mages but didn’t’ kill any of the Sword Masters it landed on-I rolled a lot of 3’s.

In combat the Skullcrushers earned their name and stampeded 9” past the eagle they brutalised in combat. In the DP combat the remaining Lions fell along with a couple of SMs.

HE 5
Image
Again there was little movement. Magic came up 12v5 and the mages prepared to do some damage to the remaining enemy forces. A 3d(16) Banishment killed the remaining Skullcrusher on the left and a second cast on 5d went through the Chaos dispel attempt and did 4W to the other Skullcrusher unit. A final 4d boosted Shem’s attempt on the same unit was failed.

Again the archers were true to form and did no damage to their armoured foes.

In combat the DP did 4W to the SMs who passed leadership on a 7 with a reroll.

WoC 5
Image
The Nurgle Warriors finally made it into CC as they charged the SMs. The Skullcrushers reformed to face the Elven lines. Magic came up 5v5 and I failed to dispel miasma on the SMs facing the Warriors.

In combat, 2 Warriors fell before the Sword Masters were struck down, the entire unit destroyed. Again the Daemon Prince survived the blows of the remaining Sword Masters and killed the rest of the unit. He reformed to face the Coven.

HE 6 and WoC 6
Unfortunately I don’t have the pictures from these rounds as we had some technical issues with the communication software me and my opponent were using. I moved to limit the damage that could be dealt to me by vacating the building and hiding the Coven as best as possible behind the large archer unit. The archers on the right flank also reformed to face the warhounds and present their flank to the Skullcrushers – only one of them would get into B2B if they charged so there was a good chance that the unit would remain steadfast and not give up any VPs.

After rolling up 10v6 dice for magic, two casts of Banishment managed a total of zero wounds on the Daemon Prince! Again, this was an unlikely event to say the least…

My opponent made some glib comment here to the tune of… ‘maybe the archers can finish it off’ before laughing down the phone at me. The archers then managed to put 2W on the Daemon Prince! That’ll teach them for making nasty comments about High Elf bowmanship! It wasn’t enough to put down the beast though.

Precious little else happened after this as I had failed to kill the Daemon and my units would be steadfast when charged. Counting up points it was a minor victory to the forces of Chaos by just over a hundred points or so.

Result: Chaos trip over the finish line and manage a small win :(

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elithmar of Lothern wrote:Thanks for the reports, even if they were a bit light on detail. Sometimes it's best just to get them out of the way to get up to date. :)

In the last game, I take it the Slann had shadow? With not many missile or damage spells, he wasn't much of a threat at range. Could you have waited for him to come to you so you'd have more time to shoot and magic missile the approaching units before engaging with sword masters? I suppose you had to stay out of range of all his nasty items.
Yeah I had a couple of them outstanding and I just wanted to document my experience and thought so I could move on. The Slann did have Shadow but I had to move up against it in order to stay out of range of Becalming Cogitation and the item that gives stupidity to characters within 18".
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#226 Post by Sackree »

A very entertaining read John. It was incredibly unlucky for you to do so many wounds to the daemon prince only to have him save them.

I think it would have been a very different story if he hadn't saved all 9 of those wounds turn 2. Still the lions and Swordmaster's kept him contained the whole game so he didn't do too much damage.

There isn't much I would have done differently. Maybe reform the Swordmaster's to seven or eight wide just to maximize attacks in turn 5 against the warriors, as you knew the charge was coming, other than that well played. Some games just come down to luck more than anything else.
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#227 Post by dabber »

That is what disgusts me about the Daemon Prince - it literally won the game for him. It alone earned well above half his victory points (Swordmasters and White Lions, other loses were only 2 Eagles and other Swordmasters). If the DP is so powerful it can destroy two of the most powerful offensive units in the game while GAINING wounds, what fun is it? Just throw it at something and win.
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#228 Post by Curu Olannon »

Will comment more in-depth later, for now I am short on time as I'm off to a friend's place to paint some minis ;) However, I think there were 3 major mistakes in this game that cost you a lot:

1. Deployment: you did well to produce a refused flank, but you really don't need anything to be chargeable T2 here. Go further behind and force him to move 24" + 6" => 30" at the very least to hit you. From the picture it looks like WLs + SMs could be reached in ~24". As you can move in T1 (and T2 if you go first) as well, this could prevent him seeing combat for 2 turns.
2. T1 & T2 moves: try and move further behind by reforming to adjust your ranks and move further into the corner. He has no pressure on you what-so-ever, just be patient and don't fear that table edge.
3. When the DP finally does charge the Lions, I see no reason not to challenge with the champ. As he can only heal 1W in this way, this gives you an entire turn of magic to give them WS10, I10, +1A etc: this is HUGE when fighting a Daemon Prince. It's not over when he gets into combat, but you need to challenge wisely and use the buffs accordingly.

Again, will comment more later :)
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#229 Post by Elithmar »

Thanks for the report. I agree with Curu though that you should have stayed back more to make that t2 charge harder if not impossible. Also it would mean the DP could not land behind your lines if he wanted to.

Sorry it's a bit off topic and I apologise if you've already answered it, but how do you paint white? It looks great. :)
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#230 Post by Th3_5had0w_K1ng »

I would really like to play on Universal Battle but it looks pretty complicated... great report! I have no critiques :-)
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#231 Post by Gondarion »

I don't think he had Speed of Light, that would have been very helpful.
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#232 Post by John Rainbow »

Sackree wrote:A very entertaining read John. It was incredibly unlucky for you to do so many wounds to the daemon prince only to have him save them.

I think it would have been a very different story if he hadn't saved all 9 of those wounds turn 2. Still the lions and Swordmaster's kept him contained the whole game so he didn't do too much damage.
Fortunately the damage output of the Daemon Prince isn't actually that amazing. For the most part, it's the stomps that get you. The big problem with the DP is that it is so damn tough! On top of that toughness it is also unbreakable. IMHO I think it is this single rule that makes it so good.
Sackree wrote:There isn't much I would have done differently. Maybe reform the Swordmaster's to seven or eight wide just to maximize attacks in turn 5 against the warriors, as you knew the charge was coming, other than that well played. Some games just come down to luck more than anything else.
This would actually have been a good option as I could've allocated some attacks onto the sorcerer and killed him off - he had already taken a wound from a miscast. That alone would've earned me the points for a draw! I didn't even think about this in the game. Well spotted.
dabber wrote:That is what disgusts me about the Daemon Prince - it literally won the game for him. It alone earned well above half his victory points (Swordmasters and White Lions, other loses were only 2 Eagles and other Swordmasters). If the DP is so powerful it can destroy two of the most powerful offensive units in the game while GAINING wounds, what fun is it? Just throw it at something and win.
The Daemon Prince did end up killing a lot here! It is almost at the point where I have 2 turns of trying to kill it (assuming I get to go first) or I'm in heap big trouble! It was a fun game still though. I enjoy the challenge.
Curu Olannon wrote:1. Deployment: you did well to produce a refused flank, but you really don't need anything to be chargeable T2 here.
Elithmar of Lothern wrote:I agree with Curu though that you should have stayed back more to make that t2 charge harder if not impossible.
Agreed. I should have moved backwards. My reasoning for staying up front was that I expected to kill the Daemon Prince with the Banishments: I got two turns of Banishing the Daemon and reasoned fairly correctly that I would get either two or three Banishments off successfully against the DP. This should, in all likelihood, kill it good and dead (even if it does have a 1+/4++ with rerolls on 1's). I guess this is one of those situations where I should be more conservative though. Moving backwards, even though I expect to prevail is the best course of action in the end.
Curu Olannon wrote:2. T1 & T2 moves: try and move further behind by reforming to adjust your ranks and move further into the corner. He has no pressure on you what-so-ever, just be patient and don't fear that table edge.
I fear the table edge! But seriously... I see what you mean here, if I get caught in CC the game is already up so I might as well get closer in to the corner. It's not like it will make much difference. I need to put space between me and the DP to get another turn attacking it.
Curu Olannon wrote:3. When the DP finally does charge the Lions, I see no reason not to challenge with the champ. As he can only heal 1W in this way, this gives you an entire turn of magic to give them WS10, I10, +1A etc: this is HUGE when fighting a Daemon Prince. It's not over when he gets into combat, but you need to challenge wisely and use the buffs accordingly.
An interesting idea but what about the potential for overkill? He can do more than one wound due to this but is Soul Feeder allowed on these wounds?
Elithmar of Lothern wrote:Sorry it's a bit off topic and I apologise if you've already answered it, but how do you paint white? It looks great. :)
Thanks! I was trying to do a write up on this but I forgot to take pictures of some of the bits. I always spray white (this helps alot!) and then go for a grey basecoat. Wash with black - this gets the strong shadows in place and then go over all the rest with white. I water the paint down some but slap it on there pretty thick. I find that I have to go in fairly thick layers otherwise the underlying colours show through. I'll go back through my photos and have a look at what I can find to post about this.
Th3_5had0w_K1ng wrote:I would really like to play on Universal Battle but it looks pretty complicated... great report! I have no critiques :-)
I'd be happy to try and show you the ropes at some point if we can arrange a decent time for both of us. What timezone are you in? I'm on EST.
Gondarion wrote:I don't think he had Speed of Light, that would have been very helpful.
Against the Daemon Prince this might've been helpful as I would retain my rerolls but the big issue is that it doesn't help against the stomps. I still die to them just the same!
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#233 Post by MasteroDisaster »

What a great read, unlucky result against the Warriors. That DP was an absolute beast! Better luck next time!
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#234 Post by Th3_5had0w_K1ng »

I'm EST as well! I work at home and generally have nights of if you want to set up a night game sometime.
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There was no fear upon the faces of the Elves, only ruthless determination.
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#235 Post by John Rainbow »

I played against Lizardmen over the weekend. Got steamrolled after two miscasts blew all of my mages to hell. I rolled the Str.6 hit to each caster result twice and with no armour and a bunch of lvl.2's this isn't good. I also took a Cupped Hands and lost Timewarp pretty early on. I have been thinking though, under zero-comp the Lizards can really do a number on the Coven. The combination of Becalming Cogitation, Cupped Hands and Focussed Rumination is pretty disgusting and pretty effectively shuts down the Coven. I still have some work to do on figuring out how to beat this list. I think it is potentially one of the worst match-ups for the Coven for a couple of reasons: I want to stay in a corner and used my ranged abilities to whittle down my foes, however, this leaves the Slann free to march up and get into Becalming range (24").

FYI, his list was something like:

Slann(4)[Shadow] + Becalming, Rumination, Cupped Hands, BSB
Skink(1)[Heavens] + scroll

30(ish) Saurus
30(ish) Saurus
40(ish) Krox block

Salamander
Salamander
3 Terradons

5 Chameleon Skinks
5 Chameleon Skinks
5 Chameleon Skinks

The solution: I am thinking of being a little more aggressive against this kind of army. Putting extra dice into spells and advancing up the field with the WLs and SMs should help me out here but crucially I need to stay within 12" of the mages for bubblecasts of spells. I will definitely be playing against this army again sometime soon so will have a BatRep up at some point in the future.

Questions about this: how much should I fear Becalming Cogitiation? Do you think advancing up the field is the best course of action?

Potential list change: I have been considering changing the equipment on the Archmage and going for a scroll over the Jewel of the Dusk. This would require me to also drop the Ironcurse Icon or Dragonbane Gem to make up the 20pts required.

I also have a game coming up tonight against the new Daemons via. Universal Battle. I will most likely do a BatRep on this one as UB makes it so much easier with the screenshots! My buddy played this guy last night with Ogres and lost. The Daemon guy rolled the 12 for Winds that grants a new unit and put 10 Plaguebearers in a position to block most of the Ogre army. It was almost funny how much this random roll screwed the Ogre player as the GUO got into CC and the Ogres couldn't flank charge it due to the new unit that suddenly appeared!

The Daemon list will probably be something like:

Unclean One(3)[Nurgle] + big gift, little gift
Epidemus
Herald BSB
2nd Herald???

40 Plaguebearers
40 Plaguebearers
5 Furies
5 Furies

Skull Cannon

As long as the list I am facing stays the same, I think my first priority will be to take down the GUO. After doing this, the Daemon magic phase evaporates and the tally kept by Epidemus will be held in check. Running the math, it seems like 2 Banishments should do the trick (GUO is T7 with 6 wounds) bar any stupidness from the gifts i.e. +2 T or 2+ AS. I'm not overly worried about the cannon so second target will be the big units of Plaguebearers, a Banishment should knock out roughly 10 per cast. Even Nurgle Daemons can't stand up to that! Against the furies, I would get 8 models wide so if they hit archers, 8 attacks causing 3 or 4 wounds so probably enough to beat them in CC. I'm not worried about Furies.

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Th3_5had0w_K1ng wrote:I'm EST as well! I work at home and generally have nights of if you want to set up a night game sometime.
Yeah that would work. I'll get back to you about this later then.
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#236 Post by John Rainbow »

2400pts Coven v. Daemons
The new Daemons 8th ed. book has just come out and I've managed to get a game in against them already. We played via Universal Battle as I was playing a friend of mine from out of state.

I was using my now standard Coven list again but after a pretty horrendous experience against Lizardmen a few days ago I decided to put a dispel scroll into the list in place of the Ironcurse and Jewel of the Dusk.

Therefore my list was:
Archmage(4)+Annulian Crystal
Seermage[Phas, Banishment]
Mage(1)+Scroll
BSB+RGoH, GW,HA

24 Archers +MS, Flaming
14 Archers +M
14 Archers +M

24 WLs +CMS, BoS,Am.Light
14 SMs +CMS, Gleaming Pennant
14 SMs +CMS

2 x Great Eagle
The Daemon list I was facing consisted of:
Great Unclean One(3)[Nurgle]+Big gift-->reroll-->+3 Str & Sword Swift Slaying (ASF), Little gift-->Breath Weapon
Epidemius
Nurgle Herald BSB + Middle gift-->Fencers Blades
Nurgle Herald + Middle gift-->2+ AS

35 Plaguebearers
39 Plaguebearers
5 Nurgle Furies
5 Nurgle Furies

Skullcannon
Deployment
Image
Deployment went very well for me. I placed my two eagles in hiding to avoid the cannon and followed this up with the archers by the building. At this point my opponent was forced to put his combat blocks down and I managed to successfully out-deploy him. It would be a while before Epidemius' unit got to do anything useful! This setup would also allow me to concentrate on taking out the Great Unclean One (GUO) before the rest of the list.

Rolling gifts and spells and such followed this, the gifts rolled by my opponent are detailed above in his list although we did randomly generate them. I was just praying he didn't get the free dispel dice on every dispel attempt! Luckily he didn't get that or a bonus to toughness anywhere so I was pretty happy.

Spells:
Archmage:Timewarp, Speed, Banishment, Shems
Seermage:Phas, Banishment
lvl1:Shems
BSB:Phas

GUO:Curse of the Leper (T boost/hex), Fleshy Abundance(regen), The Vortex Spell

Rolling for the first turn, the Daemons had a +1 and promptly got to go first.

D1
Image
The Daemons moved up - they are a CC army after all! Magic came up as a 5 which as per the new 'Reign of Chaos' chart is the entirely confusing result of hits to 'enemy units and daemons with mark of nurgle' that is being so hotly debated on the internets at the moment.
Link to Ulthuan debate on this
I was happy to simply go with the 'hits all enemy units' interpretation in this case and we rolled the dice, fortunately my opponent would have to roll for his units too with this result on the chart. The Reign of Chaos killed 5 Plaguebearers but passed over the Elves, leaving them unscathed. The GUO was also hit but the template scattered off into nowhere. With his 5 dice, the GUO managed to IF Curse on himself for +1T but took a wound on the miscast.

As Daemons can theoretically have a shooting phase now, this wasn't a non-phase for them as it used to be. The Skullcannon opened up on the Coven bunker but two heroic archers managed to step in front of the cannonball and prevent the BSB being hit.

HE1
Image
The Sword Masters behind the building reformed to get an eventual flank charge on the plaguebearers that would have to move through the gap in the buildings and the archers on the right reformed to face the furies. I made a small mistake here and should have turned the Eagle by the building to cover the rear of the SMs and archers - there was a space here the furies managed to take advantage of in the next turn.

The winds blew a strong initial phase for the HE with the result being 12v6. An initial 5d(15) cast of Banishment by the lvl.2 was dispelled with 4DD. A second cast by the AM on 4d(22) at the GUO went off but I rolled a miserable set of triple 1's for the number of hits. This resulted in zero wounds caused! I follwed this cast up with a 2d boosted Phas which my opponent failed to dispel and then put a 1d shem's on the furies. This caused a mediocre 3W after 12 hits.

In my much valued (lol) shooting phase, the archers managed to put a wound on the GUO, drop a fury and kill 3 Plaguebearers. Not bad!

D2
Image
Again the Daemons continued their slow advance. The furies on the left flank retreated to conserve their points (not sure if they could've been put to better use?) and the furies on the right jumped into the gap I had left behind the building. The error with the eagle can be seen here as I could've turned it to cover my rear from a move such as this without any consequences for my later movement, etc.

In the magic phase, the Daemons rolled up a total of 3 so there was more Chaotic chart consultation... The result was that a random character had to take instability but the roll was passed and nothing happened. I then proceeded to shut down the phase with my extra DD from the crystal and a channel granting me the advantage.

The cannon failed to get through the mystical protection granted by the mysterious Pha.

HE2
Image
The High Elves again moved little... On the right flank the archers reformed to face the furies and also redirect the Plaguebearers after they got charged in the rear - the overrun would carry the unit away from my forces. This turn the eagle did move to cover my SMs who were making their way past the building. On the left flank the eagle moved to block the GUO (this is why the eagle is in the middle of nowhere in the pic).

Magic came up 10v4 and a 4d(19) Banishment on the GUO resulted in the Daemon being cast back to the warp after the dispel attempt was failed. A 4d(16) cast of Banishment on Epidemius' unit then took out a further 4 nasties after 10W. I then failed Phas with my final dice - trying to protect against the cannon.

Shooting killed 2 furies and 4 Plaguebearers from the BSB's unit.

D3
Image
The furies and Epidemius' unit charged the archers by the building and the other unit ambled forwards. The magic dice still needed to be rolled for the 'Reign of Chaos' and the Dark Gods granted +1 to Daemonic ward saves this turn. With the GUO gone though, there were no spells.

The cannon did nothing after a poor shot (rolled a 10 for the first scatter and overshot the unit) and we moved straight to combat.

The archers did zero wounds to the furies or epidemius and 11 of them were cut down in return. They fled 10 inches with the furies in hot pursuit and the nurgle block staying put and out of sight of the Coven.

These wounds took the tally up to +1 Str for all the children of nurgle.

HE3
Image
The eagles moved to block both units of nurgle daemons and there was some shuffling around for better position elsewhere. The fleeing archers reformed to face the furies. The eagles were both positioned for advantageous overruns from my perspective. On the left the plaguebearers would overrun into the jaws of my combo-charge trap and on the right epidemius would be led away from the battle for another turn.

Another awesome magic phase saw the coven generate 12v5 dice - who needs the Jewel of the Dusk! An initial 3d(13) Banishment on the cannon was dispelled but the second attempt on 4d destroyed it. The rest of the phase was a fail however :( Only a single Shem's went off from my 5 remaining dice and took 4W off the Plaguebearers. The archers then plinked a further 3W off this unit.

D4
Image
The Daemons needed to pull something out here and declared the charges on the eagles. On the right, the furies also charged the archers. I elected to flee with the eagle on this side of the board to avoid its wounds adding to the tally and due to the fact the Epidemius could not redirect into the archers. The unit of furies prevented them from ever completing that charge. In the end they just moved fowards 3". On the other side of the board I held but the eagle was destroyed in CC, this took the tally up to +1 T.

For magic, the devoted of Nurgle again rolled a 10 for a +1 bonus to ward saves.

In combat, the eagle was destroyed as mentioned and the Plaguebearers overran into the jaws of the trap set by the High Elf infantry. The archers somehow managed to cut down the furies and held firm on the right.

HE4
Image
It was time to spring my trap and I declared charges with all my elite infantry on the BSB & Plaguebearer unit. I then reformed my Coven to face the Furies - I wanted to shoot these with archers and buff the combat units. This reform put my Archmage and BSB within 12" of the elites and accomplished both goals pretty well. The unit of 3 archers moved to block/redirect Epidemius for another round of magic missiles in T5/6.

Magic again came up 12v6 (when the Coven is on form, they're really on!) and I started out with a 4d Phas bubble that was dispelled with all opposing DD. I then Timewarped the WLs and gave them Speed of Light before failing a 1d Phas on them.

With shooting, the archers managed a single wound on Epidemius' unit but failed to kill the furies.

The first big combat of the game then and the Elves proved to be on top form. Even with their boosted $++, after the SMs and WLs had swung, 15 Plaguebearers and the BSB had been cut down. In return my opponent directed as many attacks as possible onto the unbuffed SMs and killed 3. The rest of the unit killed 2 WLs, the spells enchanting the unit proving too much for the Daemons to get through. Double 1's were needed to stick but the remaining Plaguebearerrs had had enough. With a wet 'POP' they disappeared back to the warp after failing the instability check.

At that, my opponent conceded and I had my first victory against the new Daemons! It would most likely have been a tabling if we continued and I rolled decently for magic.

Summary
Without the Banner of Sundering, the Coven just does horrible, horrible things to Daemons. I'm not sure there exists a Daemon build now that can stand up to this sort of magical punishment. I kind of feel like this is a shame as it kills the list for competitive play. I can't help but think that the new book has done a great job of making Daemons a fluffly and enjoyable army to play, but done a poor job at making them a tournament-competitive one in the all-comers environment. Obviously this game was a bit of an extreme example but I'm not sure about Daemons as a whole against other lists either.

I was actually in two minds about whether I should even post this BatRep as it was so one-sided a game. In the end I decided to go for it as I felt I had done pretty well with my positioning and general strategy during the game. My initial plan to kill the GUO ASAP proved to be the correct one as it prevented the tally getting out of hand due to magical wounds being dealt. This then allowed me to take out the rest of the list piece by piece. The poor position my opponent ended up in after deployment exacerbated all of his problems as it really played into my hands with which units I would concentrate on and in which order. I guess it goes to show some of the movement problems that hordes suffer from after bad placements early on.

Anyway, thanks for reading and I'm looking forward to any comments you guys have! Also, a big shout out for jwg and Sackree who turned up on Universal Battle mid-game to watch the carnage unfold.
JoeElf
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#237 Post by JoeElf »

Victory! Great job. You really had everything go right during the battle. Your deployment was really the beginning of the end for your opponent, like you said.
Ptolemy
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#238 Post by Ptolemy »

Solid.

For one, Its about FREAKING time that Light magic actually does something to Daemons (Standard of Sundering was one of the least fluffy/most idiotic items ever in Warhammer).

As for the GUO.....eesh....he's not the fleshy version of the Stank he once was, eh?

John, off hand, do you know if Epidemus can be cannonballed out of a unit as he was deployed (certainly seems so) or is he Infantry.
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John Rainbow
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures

#239 Post by John Rainbow »

Ptolemy wrote:John, off hand, do you know if Epidemus can be cannonballed out of a unit as he was deployed (certainly seems so) or is he Infantry.
I believe he can be cannonballed as he is monstrous cav.
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John Rainbow
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Re: John Rainbow's Adventures - Vampires List Builds

#240 Post by John Rainbow »

HELP WITH NEW ARMY
I've decided that it's about time to start a new army and I think I'm going to go with Vampires. I want one of the 'evil' factions to go against my HE and Vamps are my first choice, mainly for fluff reasons. When I started playing WFB I was torn between HE & Vamps. The reason I got HE was that my mate had a few models around to give me and someone else in the area played Vamps while no one played HE. I don't regret my choice but now I have a couple of HE builds fully painted I think it's time to branch out into a second army.

I guess what this comes down to is that I'm looking for some advice on what people have seen work really well for Vampire Counts. I have had maybe a single game against them in all of my two years playing WFB so am very inexperienced when it comes down to what is good. Flicking through the book it seems that there are loads of really good tarpit units but not too much beyond GG or Knights to provide the necessary punch (maybe monsters here but they aren't that tough).

So, what have you guys seen work for Vampires? Any typical list choices people have seen work? I want to get a good amount of feedback before I start buying up a load of stuff!

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Answering some questions on BatRep v. Daemons:
Curu Olannon wrote:DoC T3: why don't the Archers flee?
A flee move would likely not take my archer unit off the board. They would therefore be caught by the furies (epi's unit would most likely fail) and this would leave the furies in a position to reform and charge the archers or threaten the rear of my SMs in their next turn.

With more thought: I guess the flee would have worked but I didn't want the furies closer to me and able to charge. Either way, the big Nurgle block was stuck in a bad place. In the end it worked out pretty well in that I got to use the archers to block the big unit again as they (somehow) survived.
Curu Olannon wrote:HE T3: Magic phase - what happened when it was 5v0 D6?
Yeah, a fail of Phas on 2d, fail Shems 1d and cast Shems with 2d using the level 1. A sucky end to the phase!
Curu Olannon wrote: Not much to commment on the rest - you deployed well and the game played itself. A hard counter on your part, the Coven is just truly brutal against the new Daemons. Time will show if we can play it after May though
This list is just brutal against Daemons. It's so one-sided. I have a tournament in March (FLGS) and if this matchup comes up I might offer to switch with someone else as I can't imagine it will be fun for my opponent.

We'll see what comes in May, although depending on what comes with the new book we all might be playing Silver Helm core with Drake Rider rare choices, a Prince on Dragon and a Dragon Mage! Here's hoping!
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