Swordmaster's Army Pictures - Swordmasters/Palace Guard x 2

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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#91 Post by Jimmy »

Great tutorial SM, sensational work.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#92 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi guys!

Thanks a lot for comments, I am really glad you like what I painted! :)

@ Aicanor

There is always something to improve :) I agree that steeds would be better if I simply painted them with a little more layers. I will do that for next unit (and maybe correct it here too). As to shiny clothes I will have a look at it. Maybe applying less wash but in 2 layers will do the trick.

In terms of improvement I need to work on helmets more as every time I got slightly different effect. With more practice I should get more uniform look on different models. Golden armor in general is the most difficult for me so far. Also, there are sometimes little features I need to be very careful not to cover with paint as then they simply disappear.

@ Eli

I wrote about colors just for reference but I think you can easily achieve similar effect with any paints. I just got them at some stage and still have them. If I were to start with new paints I would study their charts and would try to pick the colors they have from different ranges as it seems to me their new approach would go nicely with my way of painting. base color first, then layers and some shades.

Cheers!
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#93 Post by Talifan »

Wow Swordmaster. Your army looks amazing. The gold used on the helms offsets the rest of the model, making them really stand out.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#94 Post by Elithmar »

I found a pretty good conversion chart. I'll go through later and convert your paints first to the old citadel range, then to the new one.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#95 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

That is a very useful chart, Eli, thanks a lot! If you do have time to convert the colors I would greatly appreciate! Although I think I saw some charts on GW website too. I am sure it will be helpful no matter what. Thanks again!
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#96 Post by Elithmar »

I couldn't find some of your vallejo colours but:

(Vallejo colour - old GW colour - new GW colour)
*Bad Moon Yellow - Bad Moon Yellow - (I think Bad Moon Yellow was stopped a while ago, so it is not on the chart. Yriel Yellow or Flash Gitz Yellow would probably be closest)
*I couldn't find Ochre Brown anywhere
*Yellow Ochre - Bubonic Brown - Zamesi Desert
*Gold Yellow (no Golden Yellow) - Golden Yellow - Yriel Yellow
*Bloody Red (no Blood Red) - Blood Red - Evil Sunz Scarlet
*Cobra Leather - Snakebite Leather - Balor Brown
*Dark Blue (no Darkblue Grey) - Midnight Blue - (I think Midnight Blue was stopped a while ago, so it is not on the chart. Kantor Blue would probably be closest)
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#97 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Thanks Eli! I think I forgot to mention that majority of colors are from Model Color range while Blood Red for example is from Game Color range. But I greatly appreciate your help! :)
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#98 Post by Elithmar »

I was wondering in what language yours are? If they're in a different one (Polish? ;) ) and you had to translate, maybe some of the names changed slightly and that's why I couldn't find them? I don't know, maybe that was a silly explanation and completely untrue, please correct me if so. I am prepared to be extremely embarrassed. ;)
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#99 Post by Aicanor »

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote: @ Aicanor
There is always something to improve :)
Tell me about it! I will only be satisfied once the model I painted yawns, gets up and goes off to have a chat with his comrades. No luck so far. :lol:
But you do pretty good job on the gold. Especially considering these are r&f models.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#100 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

@ Eli

I double checked the labels and official website (I bought my paints abroad anyway, they have Spanish-English labels :)):

Game Color - Bloody Red - 72.010
Model Color - Dark Bluegrey - 70.867
Model Color - Ochre Brown - 70.856
Model Color - Golden Yellow - 70.948

There might be no exact transition to GW colors for Model Color range as it is the range for historic painting. In the end I just added them as reference and it is by no means the perfect solution. I just tried different colors over the years and these seem to work for me. When I picked them up it was just by my own judgement if particular color looks good for me.

Cheers!
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#101 Post by Elithmar »

Oh right, I don't know why they weren't there then.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#102 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Don't worry Eli! Thanks a lot anyway! I really appreciate. :)

It will take time for me to check new colors from GW as I don't need paints at the moment. Might get some just out of curiosity but I don't plan to change the whole range in one go :)

Cheers!

P.S. I am painting WL now and taking pictures. There might be a lot of similarities but I think I will try to post step-by-step pictures too. Would you, guys, be interested in that?
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#103 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

Panting guides are always welcome SM, especially if people are painting WLs as well ^_^
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#104 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

I see somebody changed his identity :)

Ok, I have finished test model. Here are photos:

ImageImage

I have two questions:

1. The axe - how do you like it? Should I paint they butt in blue as well?
2. The shaft - I can try to make it even brighter, almost white so it stands out better and does not resemble "golden" parts. Or maybe just paint it scorched brown?

Of course if you have any other comments on how to improve the look of the model I will be grateful too!

Cheers!
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#105 Post by Elithmar »

Excellent! I love it, really. I wish I could play against your real army instead of your UB one in a few weeks. :(

I'd say use blue for the butt too. BTW, the axe head is possibly the best part, the blending is spot on.

I think the axe shaft looks a little fake. In the picture at least, it looks shiny.

Keep up the outstanding work! :D
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#106 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

HaHa~ Yes a name change.

The Axe is good, I like the blade, it fits with the rest of the weapon in the army, I would make the end match.
I'd break up the colours a little by doing the haft of the axe a bone colour that's lighter than the gold you use for the armour
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#107 Post by Aranell »

Hey,

I really like your work...keep it up!
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#108 Post by Teledor »

Love the axe blade. Very unique but similar to the rest of your army's weapons. Keep the butt of the of the shaft as is, I think of it as being more of a decorative piece than being the same metal as the weapon blades. The shaft I would suggest either brightening with a bleached bone blend or going darker like scorched brown. In its current form the shaft seems to blend a bit with the armor.

Overall excellent work. Keep posting up your work.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#109 Post by Elithmar »

Teledor wrote:The shaft I would suggest either brightening with a bleached bone blend or going darker like scorched brown. In its current form the shaft seems to blend a bit with the armor.
Yes, this would work. Personally I'd go darker, you already have quite a light model.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#110 Post by Caradryal »

I think he looks fantastic as he is swordmaster and I really cant decide on the axe haft. Keep it up mate your army is stunning.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - ER step by step up 02/05/2012

#111 Post by Sarcon »

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:I see somebody changed his identity :)

Ok, I have finished test model. Here are photos:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22/Sw ... test01.jpg[/img][img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22/Sw ... test02.jpg

I have two questions:

1. The axe - how do you like it? Should I paint they butt in blue as well?
2. The shaft - I can try to make it even brighter, almost white so it stands out better and does not resemble "golden" parts. Or maybe just paint it scorched brown?

Of course if you have any other comments on how to improve the look of the model I will be grateful too!

Cheers!
The first thing that stands out to me is how the blue of the metals and the warmer bone-ish colours kind of collide visually. I would either go brighter for the bone armour, or take a more grey colour for the metallics (but that's not really an option, I think), or highlight the blue up to the point that it's almost white. The shaft is great as it is!
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#112 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi guys!

Thanks a lot for comments! :)

I decided to change the butt to blue and make the shaft lighter. Will see how it is going to look for the whole model. The reason I chose that is to keep the colors limited (hence bluish butt) and to be relatively consistent with similar elements in the army (lighter color for the shaft as it is what I used for spears and bows anyway).

@ Sarcon

Could you tell me more about this clashing of colors? I am not quite sure I understand where the problem lies.\

Thanks!
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#113 Post by Sarcon »

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote: @ Sarcon

Could you tell me more about this clashing of colors? I am not quite sure I understand where the problem lies.\

Thanks!
What I mean to say is that the blues, especialy on the leg armour and scales are quite dark, and have nothing in common. In fact, on a colourscale, they are nearly the exact opposit of eachother. If you would highlight all the bpue metals closer to white, it would IMHO look a lot more coherent.

Let me explain why I whine so much about the use of colour. I will take my army for an example. Green is obviously the main colour for my army. I chose yellow for the details because it is like green a warm colour, and it is quite close to green. All the browns I use are also warm browns that work well with green. The whites make the model "pop", give it more definition. The blue gems are the only odd one in the mix, but blues are on the other hand part of the primary mix of green, but because this is a "cold" colour, it makes the gems stand out.
Basing: the browns come back in the model, the yellow of the grass comes back in the yellow details, and the mossy greens on the rocks come back in the clothing of my high elves. This is what makes my colourscheme work.

Do you understand what I mean? Constructive critisism of course. I like the look of your army, I just feel like the NMM could use another highlight.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#114 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Sarcon,

Yes, I think now I know what you meant. The funny thing, however, is that when long time ago I posted pictures of my miniatures on painters forum they told me to pick up colors which are the opposite on the color wheel so that the constrast would look better and the miniature is not that flat. :) It is especially true about different colors for scale armor and clothes (not much of the latter in the case of White Lion).

My initial idea was also to keep scale armor less dominant, and golden armor more striking. Hence more layers used on golden armor and stronger contrasts. I can of course highlight stronger the blue parts and see if that is going to improve the overall lok of the model. However, I would like to stick to the main idea of cold scale armor and warm plates. I hope that makes sense too :)

Thanks for feedback!
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#115 Post by Aicanor »

I politely disagree with Sarcon's assessment that the problem is blue/ NMM gold contrast. But there is certainly something in the ballance of these two colours. I came to think that it is plainly the way you distributed the colours - it makes them too "weighty" - too large areas painted the same colour. It would help to break them up a little. I think Sarcon's idea to lighten the scales could work, perhaps highlight more in general.
And perhaps you could look at the brown on the cloak as well, it may be one colour too many.

Note: I decided to put my opinions down the elven way (I studied this for last 150 years, you know :lol: - not nearly true, but anyway I hope it helps :wink:).
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#116 Post by Sarcon »

Aicanor wrote:I politely disagree with Sarcon's assessment that the problem is blue/ NMM gold contrast. But there is certainly something in the ballance of these two colours. I came to think that it is plainly the way you distributed the colours - it makes them too "weighty" - too large areas painted the same colour. It would help to break them up a little. I think Sarcon's idea to lighten the scales could work, perhaps highlight more in general.
And perhaps you could look at the brown on the cloak as well, it may be one colour too many.

Note: I decided to put my opinions down the elven way (I studied this for last 150 years, you know :lol: - not nearly true, but anyway I hope it helps :wink:).
You are absolutely right. Highlighting the blues would make it a "softer" colour, and work better with the gold NMM. I have a hard time sometimes trying to explain what I mean in English, so if I seemed to be on the offensive, I apologize. Swordmaster's painting techniques are great. I guess the choice of colours are a matter of taste in the end anyways.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#117 Post by Aicanor »

Sarcon wrote: I have a hard time sometimes trying to explain what I mean in English, so if I seemed to be on the offensive, I apologize.
Same for me. I just tried to add a little humour to my post. I think I undersand what you meant. Swordmaster's colour scheme is "weighted". the two main colours contrast each other, which creates very striking results, but it also makes it more difficult to balance it out or find other suitable colours. At least this is how I think it works. I didn't study the theory.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#118 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi guys!

Thanks for more comments. I really appreciate them and I always consider them. Please, also take into account my pictures might not be good enough sometimes to show the painting properly.

As to your opinions and suggestions I will try to do a better blending and create different areas as I paint but it might take some time until I get a proper feeling on what needs to be highlighted more. I guess I need to have a look at some better painters work again to see how they distribute dark/light areas.

I have found out I can do better with smaller areas than with larger ones and that shows. For example, breastplate is probably better than the helmet. Scale armor can be easier than shin-guards and so on.

Thanks again! :)
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#119 Post by Jimmy »

Nice work indeed!

I use to think people were either great gamers or great painters not both. You prove me wrong SM! :)

I'm a huge fan of the NMM you're using on the axe blade. Works very well.
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Re: Swordmaster's Army Pictures - WL test model up 07/05/2012

#120 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Thanks a lot, Jimmy! I am definitely going to give my best on both sides :)
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