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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:54 pm 
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Sorry your tourney did not go so well. I really thought the coven would do better. I guess there are differing views on this. So the Brets took first? Interesting as I also run a bret army. Any idea what he had in his list?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:36 pm 
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I guess it's an encouraging thing that you felt you should have done better Brewmaster! Two hours a game is fast, 2 1/2 is standard here, especially when you're not used to it. Getting a duff opponent like that is just bad luck.

Looking forward to more!

:)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:32 pm 
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Supreme General Brewmaster_D,

I am sorry to hear you did not do as well as you wanted.. find that tournament running at 2500pts and I am sure you will kick some major butt.

@Delaquire I guess we will find out as it appears the BM_D played that list, or I may have read it wrong. I look forward to seeing the opponents lists as well.

As always I look forward to seeing the reports.

I agree 2 hours is a bit fast for that many points, I would say 2.5 hours is a minimum.

Commander Flaxis


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Hey Guys,

My opponents were Ogres, Skaven, Ogres, Tomb Kings, in that order. The skaven player was actually the overall weekend champ - so the top player for both the doubles and singles tournament. He didn't, however, win the singles tournament.

I'm fine with the results really - two of the matches were mine to lose, then some strange rolls made for some wild swings in the last turn or two.

The spread for victory was also very tough - you needed 500 victory points more than your opponent to get a victory. The skaven match, for example, I was leading by about 450 points, but it was still considered a draw.

My schedule actually cleared up for the evening, so I'll try to get the first match up tonight.

D

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:58 pm 
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Congratulations on the Coven of Light's first completed tournament :) Despite a somewhat mediocre result, I regard it as a big success to be able to go up against a hard environment and finish in style. I don't think you're one to be happy with this kind of result, so I know you'll be looking for feedback which I'll be more than happy to provide in due time. For now though, I think you should be happy with what you've accomplished - finishing in the middle of the field is impressive indeed considering your opponents! The experience you've gained (e.g. types of players you face in a tourney, the time constraints...) will certainly help you out next time!

I'm looking forward to the reports and will do my best to provide relevant feedback ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Brewmaster, am I detecting some veiled statements to the effect that you didn't deserve the result you got?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Quote:
Brewmaster, am I detecting some veiled statements to the effect that you didn't deserve the result you got?


Haha! If it's veiled, it's pretty thinly. You guys will have to wait for game three to go up to see what I mean.

The rest of the tournament was really great though.

First battle report is being made as we speak

D

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Game 1

First matchup was versus Ogre Kingdoms. He was using an older style list, with only mournfangs as a new addition, and his yhetees were brought in response to expected influx of vampire counts players (and the ethereals that come along with it)

Ogre Kingdoms

Slaughtermaster, Ironfist, Warrior Bane, Ironcurse Icon, Dragonbane Helm, Hellheart, Lore of the Great Maw
Butcher, Level 1, Lore of Beasts, Ruby Ring of Rhuin, Dispel Scroll
Bruiser, BSB, Tormentor Sword, Armour of Silvered Steel.

8 Ironguts, Full Command, Dragonhide banner
7 Ogres, Full Command, Ironfists

3 Yhetees
4 Mournfang Cavarly, Standard bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame, Ironfists, Heavy Armour
6 Maneaters, 3x Braces of Ogre Pistols, Stubborn, Swiftstride

Sabretusks, 3 x individual

Spells are as follows:

Archmage: Pha's, Banishment, Speed of Light, Light of Battle
Mage: Timewarp

Slaughtermaster: Spinemarrow, Toothcracker, Bullgorger, Trollguts
Butcher: Wildform

Deployment

Image

I'm pretty happy how things go down - I've got a nice strike force ready to take a somewhat vulnerable general's unit should he get too aggressive trying to get the hellheart off. I also knew that the Ogres couldn't carry a magic banner, so there was no risk of a runemaw bouncing my ring of corin off.

I vanguard up the ellyrian reavers, ready to flee at the first sign of danger.

He wins the roll off to go first

Turn 1, Ogres

Image

He charges the reavers with the yhetees, who flee. The rest of his force moves up pretty aggressively.

Magic is 9 v 7, and he throws 5D6 at a powered up Toothcracker (+1T). I allow this, as I don't intend to engage him this turn, and I have a good target in the form of some pretty vulnerable maneaters and sabretusks.

His maneaters fire their pistols, but the long range, moving and multiple shots sees them only kill one swordmaster.

Turn 1, High Elves

Image

I move in some redirectors, including the rallied reavers. I move the reavers up into a sacrificial position, as I don't really see a way to accomplish what I need to with a flee; anything seems too risky for a redirected charge during a critical phase where I'm setting up an assault. I also move my mages up to close range banishment distance.

Magic is 10v5 - I start with a 4D6 banishment from my level 2 and roll pretty high. This draws out his scroll. I throw another 3D6 at a second one, and roll an insane 19. He tries to dispel with all 5, and fails. I take 5 wounds off the maneaters, with a below average roll for the hits.

With all of his dispelling tools gone, I throw 2 dice at the ring, and promptly destroy the hellheart (I knew he had it because he measured the distance between his slaughtermaster and my mages - tough to get away with that without tipping your hand :P). I throw a final D6 at pha's on the swordmasters, but roll a 1.

Shooting sees me take out the eastern sabretusk, but fail to kill the middle one.

Turn 2, Ogres

Image

He takes all the redirecting charges and backs up the maneaters out of charge range of the swordmasters - this guy was a ton of fun to play against by the way. At this point I was yelling "come at me bro!". He didn't take the bait :P

Magic is 6 v 8 thanks to the crystal and a channel on my part, and I dispel his attempt at toothcracker.

His troops kill my redirectors and the mournfangs overrun, leaving the two units of ogres to reform.

Turn 2, High Elves

Image

I blow the dragonhorn this turn, as I don't want to risk any fear checks stalling out my assault.

I declare charges with all three of my units on his general's unit of Ogres; Spears, White Lions and Swordmasters. I wanted to be safe, because I would be in a pretty bad position if I didn't win this in one round. My spears and lions make it, but the swordmasters fail. I'm ok with the results and move the two units in.

My eastern-most swordmasters move up at full tilt, ensuring he can't avoid me another turn.

Magic is 8 v 6, with a channel on his part and a lackluster performance from the coven at channeling + a 1 for the banner. I start with a 3D6 banishment on his maneaters, which he fails to dispel with 3D6, and I take the unit down to 3 models. I then get a 2D6 Pha's off on the white lions, despite a 3D6 attempt to dispel, and I get off my second attempt at Pha's on the swordmasters

In shooting, I fail to kill the recently rallied middle sabretusk

Combat sees me perform admirably. I win by a good margin and the ranks of my spears cause him to run. I pursue with both units, as I don't want to risk losing the opportunity to eliminate both his general and his entire magic phase in one go. However, this is where it goes wrong. Because of my placement of the spears, I'm just a sliver too far to the left, so whereas I was expecting to blast past the ironguts, instead I end up overrunning INTO them. This is bad bad bad, but at least at the bottom of two I'm up by 800 points and closing in on another 300 and change pretty quickly.

Turn 3, Ogres

Image

The turn starts off badly for me - the yhetees make an insanely long charge against the spears and slam into their flanks. There goes any hope of them surviving the turn.

Mournfangs hook around along with the sabretusk to threaten my coven.

His magic has been eliminated and Pha's protects the swordmasters from the Ogre pistols, so we move to combat.

The spears do 4 wounds on the Ironguts, then suffer 20 casualties for their troubles. They break from combat and, amazingly, roll boxcars for their flee distance.

Turn 3, High Elves

Image

I charge in the swordmasters on his maneaters and they fail to wound with their stand and shoot.

I attempt to rally the spearmen on Ld 10, cursing myself for using the dragonhorn too soon - and roll boxcars again. Their ensuing 10 flee distance has them flee through my eastern archers - the very troops I was counting on to redirect the mournfangs. They, naturally, fail THEIR Ld10 break test, and flee as well. I'm left stunned, and make a poor move - instead of moving my mages out of the unit of archers, I completely overlook the option. Time was getting tight at this point as well, so rushing didn't help matters.

I march the lions up out of the range of the ironguts, not wanting to take a charge from these guys if I can't help it.

Magic is 7 v 3, but one of my mages has fled from the field, reducing my banishment strength to 5. I have two choices - either go for buffing the swordmasters, and hope they can weather the storm of the mournfangs, or go all in on 2x banishments, and hope I can kill a model and panic the Ld 7 unit off the board. I throw 2 dice at a first banishment, which he dispels, then I opt to buff the swordmasters with pha's and light of battle on the archers - at the very least the fangs can have fun with an unbreakable, invincible archmage.

I really blew it this turn, though, and I know it. The mages should have popped out, and the archers should have moved up to redirect. I also feel that I should have hooked the lions East instead of west - riskier because of the chance that he makes a long charge, but the benefit is that I then have two units of elites at the ready to deal with the guts.

Unfortunately those astounding break tests left me a little punch drunk lol.

Turn 4, Ogres

Image

His Yhetees start by charging the spears, who flee off the table, then he charges the archers, who also flee off the table. His failed charge moves him forward 2", leaving room for the mournfangs to get through to the Swordmasters.

His guts turn around to face the lions.

I pray for low numbers on his impact hits, but naturally he rolls huge - 11 hits, 10 wounds. The swordmasters crumple to the ground, and he overruns into my Archmage's unit.

Turn 4, High Elves

Image

The White Lions fail their test to march, so I have no other choice than to reform and face the incoming pain train. The swordmasters move west, and we move on to magic.

Magic is 10 v 5 and I start with a Pha's protection on the Lions from my level 2, who is just in range. He dispels my attempt. I then cast pha's on the archers, which he allows, and I manage to get Light of battle off as well (sorry, my note taking got sloppy at this point due to getting whooped and time constraints)

He kills all the archers, but the mages remain, and they're unbreakable.

Turn 4, Ogres

No need for a picture here - His ironguts slam in to the White Lions, and although I take out 3 of them, it's not enough to save me. The lions are wiped out to a man, with some help from the dragonhide banner.

His mournfangs also kill the level 2, but are stuck in perpetual combat with the invincible archmage, with no frontage available for the yhetees.

At this point we agree that the two units won't see combat on Turn 6, and that my archmage can force through Light of Battle, so we tally up the points at this point.

I end up down by about 400 points, but the requirement of 500 points difference to get a win means the game is a draw.

I'm happy with that, given my ridiculous turn 3 & 4 :P

After Battle Thoughts

It's been a year since my last tournament, so this match was a bit of a wakeup call about how fast time flies when you've only got 2 hours to play. This led to some really poor decision making towards the end of the match, that almost cost me the game.

Some things for me write 100 times on a chalkboard:

- I will not use my Dragonhorn too early
- I will double-check overruns
- I will not leave my coven in a threatened unit when he has no ranged ability remaining
- I will banish the Mournfangs. Every time. Always.

Having said that, some things that worked great:

- Ring of Corin did exactly what it was supposed to do - eliminate the hellheart. Saved me from an ugly magic phase.
- The redirectors did a great job that turn of allowing me the charge. It's harder than you think to get a charge off against ogres!

I'll wait a day or so to put the next one up, so in the meantime, let loose. Not one of my best played games, that's for sure.

Turn 3 had enough insane rolls that I was ready to cry lol.

D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:08 am 
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Brewmaster_D wrote:
Hey Guys!

Interestingly enough, the runner up in the tournament was a fellow High Elf player, and introduced himself to me and mentioned that he reads this thread. He was fielding a list similar to mine in many respects - not sure if he has an account on here, but I'd love to hear some details about his list and/or battles too!

D


My list actually was more "traditional" then yours. There was another coven player with Teclis but he finished 51st. I don't want to clutter-up your thread so I've posted my list and a short description of each game here. viewtopic.php?f=51&t=38909

It was great to put a face to the name, I have thoroughly enjoyed following the thread. Hope you enjoyed the tournament as much as I did and I'm sorry to hear about your opponent in the third game.

Looking forward to reading your next three reports!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:14 am 
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Interesting first game. Here are my thoughts:

- Deployment: I didn't understand the Reavers' Vanguard. You basically sell them off at this point for no apparant reason. Why didn't you move them further West to disrupt him better? By vanguarding up like you did you basically give him the entire unit if he gets first turn. Unnecessary risk. The rest of the deployment is fine and I think you got the better of it!

- T1: Perfect dispel priorities, letting him cast +1T doesn't matter. I was originally afraid that you threw away your Eagles too quickly, but your moves in T2 clearly showed that the gamble paid off. I'm not sure I like your Swordmasters going for those Manhunters though: without Timewarping them this really will take too long. Magic phase: perfect result, well played!
- T2: Dragonhorn here seems to be overkill. Instead, I would cast Light of Battle on the Spearelves as this would create a huge roadblock for him. I think I would've planned the magic phase as follows: 3D6 Light of Battle (Spears), 3D6 Banishment (Mournfang), 4D6 Banishment (Mournfang). He can only ever reliably dispel one of these and whatever 2 get through it will be a real pain for him.
- T3: Remember that your Spears would've held here if they'd been Light of Battle'd. If they hadn't, the Mournfang wouldn't have been a problem (2x banishment). Although your Eastern Swordmasters did their job well, this flank doesn't really matter nearly as much. Ok so let's address the current situation: I would've moved the White Lions East instead of West. Moving directly away from him (East) puts greater distance between you two and allows your Swordmasters and White Lions to catch up: if he gets within charge range you can congaline your Lions -> reform and put the Swordmasters in there. This also allows you to banishment him some more. Now, some terrible luck with your LD tests here, but regardless of that it could've been salvaged by moving your other units better as you pointed out yourself. Your biggest mistake this turn though, in my opinion, is your magic phase. With 7v3 dice here you have an excellent opportunity: get that 6D6 Light of Battle bubble up!!! This saves your crystal mage, allows the Spears to block the Mournfang (remember - you get a free reform when you rally) AND prevents the Yhetees from auto-fleeing you off the table. With only 3D6 there is nothing whatsoever your opponent can do about this. Now, since you're used to having a BSB I can understand that you don't normally rate this spell, but it is crucial in order to fully utilize your Coven's potential. We've been over the other spells a few times before and I think you've really learned when to use pha's, timewarp etc compared to just spamming banishment however Light of Battle is something we haven't discussed. I can understand that you in a stressful situation didn't consider it due to this, but I'm a little surprised you didn't mention it in the report: especially since you DID cast Light of Battle anyway! Take a look at the diagram and see if you don't agree. I really think simply 6-dicing Light of Battle would've won you the game right here: Spears reform to force Mournfang to overrun in the direction of your Swordmasters, the Archers and crystal mage are tucked safely behind them and you counter-attack will be devastating + you have lots of opportunities to banishment him.
- T4: the inevitable happens as his Yhetees score a ridiculous amount of points. Remember that you decide yourself what order to move the chargers in so his Yhetees could've rolled a 7 and the Mournfang would still be able to make their charge. Also notice how your Lion manoevre lets him easily box them in and they're without support: moving them East would've prevented this happening so soon.

I think that's all there is to comment on right now :) Hopefully this doesn't sound too harsh and you can get something from it!

Looking forward to read the next report ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:55 am 
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Hey Curu!

Haha, harsh doesn't phase me - clearly this match was a far cry from my usual playing, and I totally agree with you that this game was completely winnable. I mean how could it not be with his entire magic phase eliminated turn 2?

So regarding the reavers - I actually thought they did pretty well with their vanguard here. They were in a pretty annoying spot, preventing full movement from the yhetees, and they were far enough away that there was very little chance of him actually succeeding a charge versus them. In the end, he charged with the Yhetees, they fled, then rallied and accomplished their redirect the second turn anyway with feigned flight.

T1 - My thinking here with comitting the swordmasters was a) those maneaters were an easy 300 ish points for them and b) they'd be an ugly threat to my coven if I had nothing standing between them. Swiftstride would have had them in there turn 2.

T2 - Totally agree on the Dragonhorn. I didn't cast light of battle on the spearelves because their overrun into the Guts caught me off guard; I was expecting to blast past and out of their charge arc. This happened after the magic phase, so I didn't have a magic phase to react with once it happened.

T3 - Agree with the Lions. Looking at it now (even in the actual pictures), it seems pretty obvious to me :P Time limits do funny things to your brain I guess. I think it's pretty clear to me, looking back on all my matches, that my playing usually starts off strong, then deteriorates as the matches go on, so that's something to work on for future tournaments. Also, the light of battle would have been perfect; I forgot to consider that upon rallying they get a free reform. Looking at the picture, I'm pretty sure that with that reform, I could have indeed redirected the mournfangs for sure with the spears. Nice catch Curu, something I'll definitely consider in future matches. I tunnel visioned trying to preserve the big points, and made some bad spell choices.

T4 - Incidentally, what really won him the combat vs. the lions was the dragonhide banner; I had the mournfangs pegged as having it in my mind, but he actually had it on the guts. That thing is nasty as hell - breath weapon that gives ASL, reroll 1's for everything. The unit was a freight train that I wasn't expecting. Without it, I probably would have gotten half points for that unit at least. You live you learn :P

Thanks for the feedback! Don't worry about being too harsh, you raised some excellent points.

D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:56 am 
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Hi Bremaster!

Glad to see you are reporting so quickly! :) Here are my comments which I made after reading your battle report but not other post so that I am not biased :)

1. Use of reavers - I like the way you employed their utility even if they were sacrificed. This is something I liek about them more than about eagles. You can flee one turn and have them available for next mission next turn (unless you get unlucky with rally roll). Well done!

2. Turn 1 magic phase was excellent! Not only you drew his dispell scroll but managed to get second Banishment through. The way you used the Ring make me want to use second spell caster too :)

3. Was Dragon Horn justified on your Turn 2? With 2 units in, even if you hit on 5+, with re-rolls it is still slightly better than 4+. Sure, dice can go wild any time, but I was just wonderign if it was necessary.

4. Pursuit with both WL and Spears. It is something similar that happened to me my last game against Beastmen. You want to finish off the spell caster but end up fighting against the unit you don't want to. If you pursued with Lions only and if you didn't catch him, would you be in a bad spot anyway? Like exposing the flank to the charge? If there was no chance for that I think it would be better to pursuit just with Lions and try to flee with Spears in his turn. Of course I fully understand why you pursued with both :) It just shows that before you roll the dice take that measuring tape and reconsider the options or you might be surprised into what trouble you are going to get yourself into :)

5. Time is an issue in a tournament. You are forced to make decision quickly and after the game it is sometimes hard to find out why they were made at all. :) I wonder if I should start practicing playing games with time limit anyway to get things done properly anyway :)

6. The problem with Mournfangs is that they inflict D3 impact hits so it is risky to count on opponent's low roll for that. Looking at the situation from the hindsight I agree that second Banishment instead of Pha's Protection would better option. If you could destroy just one of them it would help you in following combat and you had some chance to inflict more damage.

Tough game and I agree a good result in the end considering time limit and some unlucky rolls/decisions. I still like the way you played, especially under such pressure. I do know how emotions can affect your game when things start to go wrong :)

Thanks for posting and looking forward reports from next battle! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:14 pm 
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I'm not sure the double block was necessary with the eagles Turn 2. If you block the iron guts, the worst the Ogres do is charge in alone, and they don't have the damage output to be really scary in my opinion. They charge the lions, you lose a few, but the spears close in and you win combat easy. Heck, the lions on their own would probably win combat against the ogres on their own, even if they're charged.

I think your reaver placement turn 2 was also a little too easy to recover from for the Mournfangs. You want to angle them as far away from the battle as possible, and really force them out of position.

I'd also keep try to leave the spears with a larger arc on the field. If they were tilted a little more westernly, they could have flank charged the Mournfangs! Flank charge + Static resolution + any damage means they're likely to win that combat.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:07 pm 
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A game of two halves indeed!

I totally identify with the character thing. I had a game recently where it was late, I was tired and I failed to move them out of units when I should have. When we're more on form this is the kind of mistake we don't make. Tournament practice helps with this!

The other thing is that Ogres are a tricky match-up for the Coven IMHO. Of course they are a strong army to start with. The Hellheart you dealt with but you had to play cleverly to do it. They are strong against infantry, while your list has re-directors Brewmaster at some point the combat units will be facing off and as the battle showed, you can't afford to let him charge you. At all.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Thanks for all the input guys!

@ Swordmaster - I'll address your points in order:

1. Yeah, I wish I didn't have to sacrifice them, but I just didn't see a feigned flight opportunity on Turn 2 that wouldn't have led to a redirected charge. They did their job, though, stalling the yhetees T1 and then redirecting the fangs turn 2

2. I agree, and I'm sure most others will as well; this magic phase was probably the best one of the entire tournament, with a couple during Round 2 being some close seconds. Eliminating his magic defense Turn 1 was probably the best I could have hoped for.

3. Short answer: No. Long Answer: I was afraid of two things. First, I didn't want to fail those fear tests, which admittedly was an overreaction, and #2, I didn't want to forget it entirely. I haven't been playing with the horn for very long, so it isn't a habit yet like the annullian crystal is, for example. You'll see in future games, I do forget about it later on and kick myself for it. This tournament was good in that respect; I'll not likely be forgetting it again!

4. I was stuck here - if I had reformed the spears, he'd have gotten off a charge with the guts and I would have suffered even more pain at their hands. This was 100% my error in not actually getting out a straight edge and seeing that I'd clip the unit of guts. Without that, there was a better than average chance of running out of their charge arc. Even still, the spears were probably ok up until the point that the Yhetees made their ridiculous 10 or 11 (can't remember exactly) roll to get in to combat. Even with all his kills, I was still only 5 models away from being steadfast. It's a rule to live by though - measure first, act second. At 2 hours a game, I knew it would be tight, given how long most of my phases are, so I skipped that step too many times and it cost me.

5. I totally agree - time is a factor, and just overall staying power. Playing Warhammer for 10 hours definitely drains you! I'm inclined to agree with you - from now on my tournament test matches will feature a stopwatch too, so that I don't get caught off guard as well. I'm also sad to say it, but I think I'll need to forget the reports and focus exclusively on the game instead, unless I can get somebody to do it for me.

6. Agree again, not to mention the Ld7 panic check I would have forced so close to the board edge. That would have been a huge swing in the game.

@ Baeronvonbleat - You're probably right about the double block; S5 impact hits would kill a few, then the lions would have railed them. That would have saved me an eagle for another Mournfang redirect. Again, playing fast, and in my head I'm saying "Don't take a charge from ogres".

With the reavers, I was actually pretty careful with this one. I gave them as much of an angle as I could, without giving him space to get through to the spears, and also without offering a flank.

I'm guessing if I had a charge arc with the spears, the fangs wouldn't have overrun, so it's unlikely I'd have gotten the flank charge, but at least this would have kept him from circling around my flank.

All very good points.

@ SpellArcher -

Quote:
They are strong against infantry, while your list has re-directors Brewmaster at some point the combat units will be facing off and as the battle showed, you can't afford to let him charge you. At all.


Quoted for truth. Taking a charge, particularly from the mournfangs, is absolutely lethal. As they are auto hits and happen before ASF, all of my normal defense mechanisms don't work against them. Baeron brought up one situation where taking the charge might have actually been advantageous (provided he doesn't roll 10+ for his charge range :S 4D3 S5 impact hits would make life miserable), but by and large it's imperative that we get the charge, and do so with enough force to neutralize their impressive hitting power.


All in all, I come away with some hard lessons from this game:

- Light of Battle can be a lifesaver at the right time - use it!
- Banish the Mournfangs. They represent the highest threat level in terms of impact hits
- Avoid dividing forces - this should have been obvious, and I preach it all the time, yet I fell victim to it here with the white lions.
- Be more conservative with the redirectors - do I really *need* this redirect, as opposed to just reflexively doing it.
- Mages in threatened bunkers run for the hills.
- Stay focused, even when the match is going my way

D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Brewmaster_D wrote:
- Light of Battle can be a lifesaver at the right time - use it!

I'm beginning to think the same about Courage of Aenarion. All spells can be useful!

:)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:11 pm 
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Focusing on the game is indeed important. But to be able to write a battle report afterward you don't need to do much. I found out that just taking a quick photo after each turn really helps later to refresh my memory. It does not distract you much and in the end you don't necessarily need to remember exact power vs dispel dice count either :) Although, of course, if you do all the better. :)

So who was next? Any teaser trailer? :)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:20 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Brewmaster_D wrote:
- Light of Battle can be a lifesaver at the right time - use it!

I'm beginning to think the same about Courage of Aenarion. All spells can be useful!

:)


Yep, High has no bad spells. My own favourite lore, Heavens, has a couple spells that suck big hairy donkey balls, so i might end up moving to High and just find another way to deal with heavy armour and high toughness.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:22 pm 
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Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Focusing on the game is indeed important. But to be able to write a battle report afterward you don't need to do much. I found out that just taking a quick photo after each turn really helps later to refresh my memory...
I agree with this. Also, people are much less apt to cheat or bend the rules if you tell them you'll be posting a battle report online and start taking pictures... just make sure you get their name first. :3


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:18 am 
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Thanks to everyone for the wonderful comments and feedback on my first game. It was a tough pill to swallow, and looking at the match as a whole, I don't feel the loss was related to any weakness in the list, but rather weakness in my playing. I like this situation the best, because frankly I've become attached to this list at this point :P

So, I dust myself off, and head to my second match of the day. Lo and behold, who do you think is my opponent? Of course, the winner of the doubles tournament both this year and last year, and the soon to be overall winner of this year. His list was a numbers based skaven list, featuring dual hellpits and a unit of no less than ONE HUNDRED giant rats with the special character squeel.

Being a skaven player myself, I am excited to see how his list performs, as it's quite different from the lists I usually field.

Game 2 - Our rats will blot out the sun

Grey Seer, Talisman of Preservation
Cheiftain, BSB, Storm Banner
Plague Priest, Dispel Scroll

35 Clanrats, FC, Shields
34 Clanrats, FC, Shields
29 Clanrats, FC, Shields
29 Clanrats, FC, Shields
24 Slaves, Musician, Shields
90 Giant Rats, 8 handlers, Squeel Gnawtooth

Hellpit, Warpstone Spikes
Hellpit, Warpstone Spikes


Our Spells:

Archmage - Banishment, Pha's, Shem's Burning Gaze, Timewarp
Mage - Light of Battle

Plague Priest - Plague Breath
Seer - Bless With Filth, Wither, Plague, Dreaded 13th
His Giant Rats get Poison for the Skweel effect (out of a possible +1A, poison or regen)

So before I begin, let me just mention that despite fielding a pretty ridiculous skaven list, this guy was an absolute pleasure to play against. He got my vote for favourite opponent, being closely tied with my first one (incidentally, they were partners in the doubles tournament lol).

Also note that this is one of the toughest battle reports I've ever had to recreate in battle chronicler due to the ridiculous size of his army. Please be a bit lenient with accuracy - I know some things shift a bit, which is me trying to give an accurate representation.

Deployment

Image

Because of the enormity of his army, I knew I had to utilize the conveniently placed building in the middle to divide his army. There was just no way I could deal with these kinds of numbers at once.

The coven goes far west, keeping them in hellpit blasting range, but also out of range of the grey seer's first turn Dreaded 13th.

Reavers deploy with the intent of infiltrating the rear of his line and generating combat resolution, as there's really no appealing targets, and the building should do well for stalling his battle line.

I win the roll for first turn (thankfully), and we get the game rolling

Turn 1, High Elves

Image

A conservative advance on my behalf. I create some difficult positions for the hellpits with my elites, and I can see him sweating trying to figure out which one has the banner of eternal flame (answer: none, mwahahaha!). The storm banner goes up, so my eagles waddle in the general direction I'd like them to go.

Magic is 8 v 5 - I start off with a 2D6 Shem's on his Western hellpit (This time I remembered to take shem's lol), and he throws 2 dice at it as well, but rolls lower. The resulting hits generate 1 wound, which is good enough for me! I throw 3D6 at Banishment, which draws a scroll, and then another 3D6 at the same spell which he fails to dispel. 5 wounds, dead hellpit. Dead hellpit and a scroll out of the way - I'm pretty happy with this T1 magic phase.

Storm banner eliminates my shooting, so we move to his turn

Turn 1, Skaven

Image

His hellpit flops it's advance roll and only goes 5". The grey seer moves up, but he's forced to leave a gap for his enormous block of giant rats. This keeps the rest of his forces at bay, relatively speaking.

Magic is 9 v 7 - He leads off with a 5D6 plague, and I'm left with a decision. Do I throw all 7 to dispel a plague and leave him open for a 13th attempt? Or do I eat the plague and save my dice for the 13th? In my experience with skaven, I know how tough it can be to land that spell when it matters, so I take plague out with my dispel dice and hope for the best. He chomps 2 warpstone tokens (he had 3 this match) and manages to cast the spell on my white lions, who suffer 11 casualties. It sucks, but hey, that's skaven.

Turn 2, High Elves

Image

The storm banner ends, so my eagles return to their full movement capacity. The western one flies up to box in the hellpit, and the Eastern one moves up to redirect the unit of giant rats into the building. The western Swordmasters move up confidently under the cover provided by the eagle. The reavers continue their mission to threaten the rear of his line, skirting around the unit of clanrats.

Magic is 7 v 5 - I throw 2D6 at shem's and he throws 3 dice at it, but my high roll and a low roll for him sees him fail to dispel again. The spell fails to wound, however, so I throw 2D6 at banishment with my archmage. He succeeds and puts 2 wounds on the monster, then the Staff mage follows suit putting another two wounds on it.

Turn 2, Skaven

Image

After much deliberation about which direction to take the hellpit, he opts to try to move it into my eastern swordmasters on an extremely long move. It doesn't make the charge, leaving it out in the middle of the battlefield.

He charges in with his Plague Priest's unit, and takes on the eagle with his giant rats, and he decides to move the Eastern clanrats to capture a table quarter (worth 50 points in this tournament).

Magic is 5 v 4, and I manage to dispel his 3D6 (1 warpstone) attempt at plague on my eastern swordmasters. He then uses 3D6 on bless with filth on his Plague Priest's unit.

In combat, my spears are happy to finally have some T3 low armour models to kill, and happily do so. They kill 9 or so, and he kills 5 ish but passes his break test. Giant rats kill the eagle and overrun into the clanrats.

Turn 3, High Elves

Image

I charge the Western swordmasters into the flank of his exposed hellpit, and the Eastern ones into flank of the clanrats. The reavers complete their lap around his army, and line up a charge arc for a soon to be engaged skaven battle line. My remaining great eagle blocks the slave unit from getting a flank charge off on my swordmasters should their overrun not make it to the Grey Seer's unit.

Magic is 7 v 4. I know I'm going to have to engage that giant rat block next turn, so I start pre-emptively buffing my spears. I throw 2D6 at Pha's on them, which he allows, then 2D6 again at Pha's, which he allows again (I think he was fearful of timewarp here? Not sure). I then attempt a timewarp on the swordmasters, which he dispels.

In combat, the swordmasters shred through the final two wounds on the hellpit, and luckily it rolls a 1 on the "too horrible to die" chart. My intended overrun into his grey seer's unit (needed a 7) falls short with only a 3 being rolled.

The spearmen and swordmasters combined finish off the clanrats (the spears rolled incredibly all game... for once :P). His plague priest flees, but I reform the spears to take the charge from him next turn, utilizing their double pha's to keep his horde hitting on 6's and leave the swordmasters in a position to counter charge in my next turn.

Turn 3, Skaven

Image

His Giant Rat unit barrels into my spears, and his slaves take on the eagle. His Grey Seer, sensing imminent danger, turns tail and runs from the swordmasters.

Magic is 3 v 4 thanks to the annullian crystal, and he swings for the fences by trying for double sixes on the dreaded 13th. He fails to get them.

In combat, his giant rats only manage to put 4 wounds on the spears, who manage 10 or so of their own wounds in return. I win combat, but he holds on steadfast. 10 down, 90 to go...

The slaves and cheiftain kill the eagle, and opt to overrun.

Turn 4, High Elves

Image

Things start to really happen for me on this turn - the swordmasters charge the plague priest (who was angled to direct them into the clanrats, not the giant rats), and the reavers charge into the rear of the clanrats. My Eastern swordmasters move in to support the spearmen and the coven moves in to AoE buffing range of the combat units. The lions turn to threaten the flank of the slaves.

This is a big magic phase for me, but I roll pretty low - 6 v 2. I start with a 3 dice bubble Pha's, and fail the casting roll :( My second attempt sees me get it off irresistably on my swordmasters in combat with the giant rats, and the ensuing miscast blows up a bunch of archers.

In combat, the shredding begins, and I manage to take out 19 more of his giant rats. His attacks take their toll this time, however, and the spears are starting to dwindle.

The swordmaster/reaver combat goes predictably - the swordmasters crush the plague priest, and overrun into the clanrats. I take them down to 10 or so models, but they're still steadfast and hold.

Turn 4, Skaven

Image

With his army dwindling, he reforms his slaves to face the approaching lions.

Magic is 8 v 7 - He starts off with a bless with filth on 2D6 on the giant rats (would cause them to be poisoned on a 5+). It's a low roll, however, and I confidently dispel it with 2D6 of my own. He then attempts plague with 6D6, and thankfully I manage to dispel it with my remaining 5D6 on irresistable.

Combat is brutal again, with me taking out another 15 or so giant rats and him holding on steadfast. In my other combat, I finish off his unit and reform to face the middle.

Turn 5, High Elves

Image

I know he's got a huge amount of points invested in the giant rats, so despite having a clear line to his grey seer, I opt to go for the combo charge on his giant rat unit and finish it off. Even looking at it now, I think it was the right call. My two engaged units were getting extremely low, and weren't going to be able to hold for much longer. This would have opened up a channel for him to get into my bunkers, which wouldn't do.

I also charge the white lions in to the slave block - risky, I know, but I'm confident in my ability to get through one of my bubbled pha's, which would have the slaves hitting on 6's, and there's a good shot of my lion champion taking what I know is an undefended BSB (He's got no magic items due to carrying the storm banner). 200 or so points from the BSB trumps the 180 the lions have left to give up (there were half points for 50% units in this tournament)

Magic is 10 v 5. I lead off with a 3D6 timewarp on the flanking swordmasters, which he allows. I then attempt a 3D6 pha's protection bubble, which he dispels. I attempt another 4D6 pha's bubble from the level 2, but fail the casting roll.

In combat, the swordmasters make some chainsaw noises and lay into the rats and kill close to 30 of them, leaving behind 15 models in the unit - one model shy of breaking steadfast when the dust settles! He manages another steadfast check on ld 8 (1 rank).

Heartbreakingly, the white lion champ only manages 1 wound on the BSB, and gets slain in return. They hold from stubborn.

Turn 5, Skaven

Image

This game is proving to be incredibly long and awesome, but we're getting close to the wire now. We have to pick up the pace at this point, and my playing starts to suffer.

His movement is non-existent, so we go right to magic.

He rolls big and it's 11 v 7. He leads off with a wither on the spears, which I allow. He's almost got the points for them anyway, and I figure he'll take them regardless. He then goes big on a 6D6 plague, but I dispel it with everything I've got. Can't remember what he did with his last 2 dice, but he failed the cast regardless.

In combat, I finish off enough of his unit to cause it to break, and I make my first big mistake of the game - I forget that fleeing units at the end of the game means full points, so I opt to pursue with both units of swordmasters (the only things left at this point). This pulls me away from his unit of clanrats with the seer, which would have been a *perfect* target for the remaining nearly full unit of swordmasters.

The white lions direct one attack (he was kitty corner now) at the BSB and again fail to wound him. They hold, but are reduced to one model remaining.

High Elves, Turn 6

Image

Mistake # 2 - I reform my swordmasters in a spot that *looks* to be out of charge range of the clanrats. We get our 5 minute warning, so I don't measure the distance :S

We move to magic quickly, and I get a 7 v 2 phase. This lets me get double pha's up on the lions.

Once again, I fail to wound the BSB, and I curse my luck. He, however, fails to hit the remaining protected White Lion.

Skaven, Turn 6

Image

What originally looks to be an impossible charge turns out to just be a highly improbable charge. He needs an 11 or 12, and gets it.

Magic is 8 v 7 and he throws 6D6 at the dreaded 13th, but I dispel it irresistably. He fails the next roll.

In combat, he manages to kill my two swordmasters and overruns into my coven. Incidentally, this is a horrible position for him next turn, opening up his flank to the full unit of swordmasters and the archmage's archers, however we're at the bottom of 6 :/

Amazingly, the white lion manages to both fail to wound the BSB again, and also survive the onslaught of attacks. I don't get the BSB points, but I survive and preserve half the White Lion points.

All in all, an incredible game of warhammer!

After Battle thoughts

So here is the best part. I got lists from all of my opponents, which are all approved by the tournament operators and feature all of the points values. We tallied the points, and he told me 1400 something points that I scored off of him. I took him for his word, because we literally had the judges standing there waiting for our sheets. I'm tallying the points right now, and something is pretty clear to me - I scored 1632 this match vs. his 980, giving a spread of 650 points. Turns out I won this match!

On the downside, T.Faulkner was really gunning for the top spot overall for this tournament, both in the singles tournament and overall. In the end, he only fell short by 4 points of this skaven player's result. Guess what the spread in points is between a draw and a loss? 4 points. I inadvertently cost T.Faulkner the overall win and grand prize by not reporting this match correctly :(

In terms of the actual battle:

- Once again, stay sharp right until the end. Without losing those swordmasters, the victory would have been even more obvious and there would have been no chance for confusion.
- Pay attention to the special tournament rules and keep them in mind throughout the match. The giant rats fleeing was a nearly surefire chunk of points with or without pursuit.
- Try to leave enough time to double check other's work. I know it seems mistrusting, but I honestly believe this opponent simply had an error in math, not malicious intent.
- Frying hellpits is fun

I'll leave you guys with that!

Hope you enjoyed the report.

D

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:44 am 
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Another great report, Brewmaster! Tough that it was rated a draw due to calculation errors, especially since I think you played quite well here. The keys for me seemed to be your use of terrain to force a delay of the skaven line. I also think you really did well taking the HPA's out immediately. With those out of the picture, it made it very clear where to focus your forces.

I don't know if I'd say the reforming of the SM just inside charge range as a huge mistake. Rolling an 11 or 12 on a charge roll is pretty tough to swallow. Obviously, being able to check the range is ideal, but that was also a dice roll that was right place at the right time.

Looking forward to the next ones!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:07 am 
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I think the resulting summary with regards to Game 1 is pretty much optimal: there's nothing we haven't covered I think. Anyways, moving on to game 2:

First of all a great report! A lot of detail bearing in mind it was a tournament. I agree with Swordmasters that simply taking pictures is probably enough. After all, it's the overall that matters the most and you don't want your report-making to compromise your game.

Deployment is perfect: you force him to approach you bottleneck-style. The Reavers are also perfectly situated and the Hell Pits are easy to deal with.

T1: I'm not sure why you advance here at all. With that being said, it's probably not a big difference whether you advance slowly or not at all. Magic is perfect (well executed!). Your dispel priorities are also as they should be - you got past the mental barrier of always trying to dispel 13th.

T2: I'm not sure I like the second Eagle sacrifice. There really is no way for him to overwhelm you here, blocking the HPA and saving the second Eagle sounds more reasonable to me. His T2 sees you prioritize you defense perfectly again. Also - could you not have fled with your Eagle here? This would've forced him to make a hard decision.

T3: At this point I think the mages should all exit their bunkers. There is no reason for them to be such a juicy 13th target anymore. He could've very well ended the game at any point here with a lucky 13th roll. Magic - this is a hard one. I think in the end you did the right thing with prioritizing pha's. A cheeky trick here could be to start the phase with a 1-dice Corin on his Grey Seer just to see how he'd react.

T4: Moves are good, but magic I'm not so sure I agree with: What you want to accomplish here is to chop him down ASAP. Pha's does not help you in this regard, but Timewarp does. I would try a 4D6 Timewarp on the Swordmasters and a 2D6 Pha's on them I think, or just go for a 6-dice Timewarp bubble (this has the added effect that your charges next turn will be ridiculously long - if you break the rats in this round you pretty much break his entire army due to M10). We could discuss what the optimal route is here, given your big advantage, but I think that essentially, if you get Timewarp off, the rest doesn't matter. Depending on the numbers there and then, a single cast on 4D6 could suffice, or it could be worth going for the bubble. In general though, a 6v2 phase has an optimal strategy of 3+3 D6 - assuming the casting values and spell effects are achieveable and comparable, respectively.

Do you remember how many giant rats were left after his T4?

T5: killing the Grey seer will win you the game. The question is, can you reliably kill the rats without help? Exact numbers are needed to evaluate this, however it seems pretty clear from the picture that the Swordmasters are strong enough to crush the Grey Seer + bunker. Also consider how this affects your magic phase: a bubbled Pha's would be truly terrible (and it looks like you can cast it twice by moving both mages).

Magic: 3+4+3 is somewhat stretching things here. You do have a tough spot though because it's surprisingly hard for you to reliably get 2 high-priority spells through. Also, since you didn't engage the Grey Seer, Corin has no threat value. Assuming you had engaged the Grey Seer, I would've done as follows: 2D6 Corin on him -> if he dispels you go 2x 4D6 Pha's bubble. If he doesn't, you go 3D6 Pha's Bubble + 5D6 Pha's Bubble. The situation you had though doesn't allow for such a strategy, which makes it a lot harder. I'm thinking a 4D6 Pha's Bubble followed by a 6D6 Timewarp bubble would be an interesting take here.

Unfortunate mistake to pursue with the full-strength SMasters.

T6: Nothing to say here than tough luck!

In the end though, you did win the game! You played solid and made way less mistakes than him and you also managed to capitalize on your strengths. A pity the calculation was off - it would've been a deserved win indeed!

One question though, which I continue asking myself when reading this report in particular (but also some of the others): how would +1 to cast affect your magic strategy / options? I can't help but think it would ensure a more effective trickle-strategy, not to mention how much more comfortable I'd feel casting Timewarp bubble!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:48 pm 
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Hi Brewmaster!

Thanks for being so fast with writing another report! Here are my comments:

1. Two hellpits, hm, that is definitely something to watch out and you did great to eliminate them. Yet again your magic shines :). I am just wondering about positioning of an eagle. How far away was it from the abomination? If it was just 1" then how the monster avoided your eagle?

2. Great use of Reaves and their speed. It really is nice to see how fast they can be and how quickly they were in position behind enemy lines to join the fight!

3. Is it onl me or is the image for Turn 4 Skaven missing?

4. Sometimes it is much better to have a fight for 2 runs instead of winning it outright. Gives you some protection from spells, positioning of units can be such that prevents the enemy from joining the combat (like in this game) and then you are in perfect spot to charge again in your next turn.

5. The amount of models your units killed per turn was ubelivable!

6. End game is always difficult, especially when the time is limited and there might be a penalty for playing too long. Nevertheless it is worth focusing even harder :)

7. In the end you had a great game and managed to win against tough enemy while having control during the battle. It is of course the nature of our army that even small mistakes cost us some valuable victory points if not the whole game.

Well done!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Bolt Thrower wrote:
Another great report, Brewmaster! Tough that it was rated a draw due to calculation errors, especially since I think you played quite well here. The keys for me seemed to be your use of terrain to force a delay of the skaven line. I also think you really did well taking the HPA's out immediately. With those out of the picture, it made it very clear where to focus your forces.


+1. I think your use of the building to split his force and use his numbers against himself was brilliant. Skaven are a tough match for elves and you really played to your strengths while exploiting his weaknesses! Taking out the two hellpits is no easy feat, and you made it look like childsplay, congrats on that.

Curu Olannon wrote:
Deployment is perfect: you force him to approach you bottleneck-style. The Reavers are also perfectly situated and the Hell Pits are easy to deal with.

+1

T1: I'm not sure why you advance here at all. With that being said, it's probably not a big difference whether you advance slowly or not at all. Magic is perfect (well executed!). Your dispel priorities are also as they should be - you got past the mental barrier of always trying to dispel 13th.

I think advancing was the right move. Had you not advanced, Brad could have taken the rat unit around his left side of the building and then brought his full force to bear on your numerically inferior force. By moving up you forced him to scramble to fit his rats to the right (his perspective) of the building!

T3: At this point I think the mages should all exit their bunkers. There is no reason for them to be such a juicy 13th target anymore. He could've very well ended the game at any point here with a lucky 13th roll.

+1. I would have been sweating buckets every magic phase facing Dreaded Thirteenth and having that many casters in one unit! Could have been disastrous! Thankfully that is not the way the cookie crumbled.

Do you remember how many giant rats were left after his T4?

I'd be curious to know that too!


Brewmaster_D wrote:

On the downside, T.Faulkner was really gunning for the top spot overall for this tournament, both in the singles tournament and overall. In the end, he only fell short by 4 points of this skaven player's result. Guess what the spread in points is between a draw and a loss? 4 points. I inadvertently cost T.Faulkner the overall win and grand prize by not reporting this match correctly
D


No worries mate! Brad has a reputation for being a great guy so I'm sure it was an honest mistake! Sounds like you guys were pretty rushed there at the end so its quite understandable! Rough luck drawing both of the doubles winners for the singles tourney! I cannot see anyone having a more difficult path in this tournament, especially given that we still have not read the horror story that will be your third report!

I think you played this game close to perfection! Were either of you broken?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:42 pm 
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If Brewmaster had not advanced T1 and the Skaven had sent his Rats East (to the Skaven player's left), he would've lost the game easily: with 2 Eagles and Reavers Brewmaster could've utterly annihilated the rest of the Skaven force (just cast timewarp every single phase and there's no way he can dodge you) and the rats never would've done anything.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Wow, thanks for the fast replies guys!

Once again, some great feedback - this report actually took much longer than normal to make, simply due to trying to replicate the extremely tight quarters we were in for the most part of this battle.

@Bolt Thrower - Thanks very much! The only reason I mention that it was a mistake is that I did have the opportunity to make absolutely sure that he couldn't get the charge, rather than just a horrible chance.

@Curu - wow, lots here. I'll do my best to address it all:

Deployment certainly was key here. I know all too well using my own skaven how much of a pain it can be to maneuver a horde around, let alone a unit of 400. It was kind of funny seeing some units literally get squeezed out of his battle line.

T1 - The general move forward was for one reason, and one reason only - close range for both shem's and banishment. The upgraded casting cost of Shem's is a bit on the steep side, and I wanted to make sure I could pepper him with spells this turn. 6" move from the archers (storm banner was up, so they weren't shooting much anyway) saw to that nicely. I don't think my first magic phase would have been nearly as effective at both taking out a hellpit and drawing out his scroll were it not for that move.

T2 - I'm not sure I like it either. Having said that, it's really tough to tell from the pictures, but I think that he might have been able to squeeze a redirect through into the spears if I had fled. It's pretty dicey, but I didn't want to run the risk. I'm inclined to agree about the overall need for the redirect - in my mind I wanted to stall that unit and take out the grey seer quickly, and having 100 giant rats between me and him was definitely counterproductive to that :P In the end, I got my shot at the seer with the swordmaster overrun after taking out the hellpit, but they didn't roll high enough unfortunately. That would have been fantastic, being able to engage him with heavy hitters on Turn 2!

T3 - I wasn't sure where things landed for casting the Dreaded 13th on single models - in my head it was auto death, but now that I think about it, they might have FAQ'd that. That was my primary worry leaving the bunker. I saw it as a situation of auto lose the archmage, or at least give him a hope of surviving it by either a) offering a more lucrative target in the form of the two other mages or b) requiring the Grey Seer to roll an 11+ to take the archmage's unit out.

Playing skaven myself, I knew that there wasn't much in terms of magic items left on the field at this point; the cheiftain had the banner which was used, the plague priest was dead, and the grey seer was intent on running away, so I think he would have just let me have the ring and I'd be down a power dice for not much benefit - if I engaged the seer, he's dead regardless of his 4+ ward. I had a hunch, based on his list that he kept the Seer cheap, and it turns out I was right.

T4 - My reasoning behind the magic phase was this: at the start of this turn, the spears had only done about 12 wounds to the unit, leaving 88 or so left (good god...) I knew that with the rats built in poison, my troops weren't going to last long enough for the support in the West to show up without some sort of way to mitigate the damage coming my way. I figured keeping the Swordmasters up and swinging to keep me winning combat until I could get a combo off was a safer bet than trying to shred down a unit like that.

Judging by the pictures, at the end of the Skaven turn 4, he had 52 rats & handlers left, and I was at 5 swordmasters and 10 spears. So realistically speaking, the extra attacks from timewarp weren't going to break him at this stage of the game.

T5 - Based on the exact numbers, I think the answer here is no, my two remaining units couldn't have done it alone. I know for sure there was at least 50 left in the unit, because my swordmasters on the flank got all 7 of their models to attack that round. According to my math, I had 34 swordmaster attacks, 10 spear attacks, 4 reaver attacks and 4 horse attacks on his unit. Average sits at 34 ish kills, but according to the numbers I took out 37 in that one round of combat, leaving him with 15 models and unfortunately still steadfast.

The timewarp bubble crossed my mind here, but I really didn't want to risk the miscast or failed cast when things were going my way.

I actually attempted two Pha's bubbles, but he dispelled one and I failed my 4D6 attempt with my level 2. Boy was his face red!

T6 - Yeah, that sucked. All I can say about that :P

In this match, I think the +1 could have really shown its benefit. In a match where volume of attacks trumps quality, Timewarp bubbles would have been pure gold. I'd have been much more likely to try them with an 80% chance of success as opposed to the 70ish with a base level 4.

@ Swordmaster

1. My goal here wasn't to redirect the hellpit so to speak, but rather channel it in to the center with the eagle and keep it away from the swordmasters in the west. So it was a bit more than 1" away, and left really only one choice for movement that turn - try to get him engaged, or lose him next turn to the machine gun of magic missiles.

2. I was definitely impressed with their speed. Not likely that the Dragon Princes could have pulled off this sort of maneuver. Having said that, I definitely missed the Prince's hitting power!

3. Wierd, let me check the link

4. True, this kept some of my units safe from the 13th. Having said that, his other nasty spell (plague) can be cast into combat. I doubted he would, since it then effects both units and he stood to lose 40+ giant rats. But still something to keep in mind when facing skaven.

5. I'm pretty sure I was the only person in the tournament to take out that unit :P

I feel pretty good about this match even though it was recorded as a draw - I beat one of the top players playing one of the top armies, so that at least helps me feel better about my disaster of a 3rd round.

@ T.Faulkner - talk about luck of the draw eh? Two of the top guys in a row, then a guy who didn't know the basic movement rules.

Something to remember here in the debate about the first turn move is that those giant rats are actually M6 vs M5 in the rest of the army. It may not seem like much, but it does make a difference when trying something like going around a building. I think my shuffle forward was enough to make my intentions clear - he knew if he knew I was committing to the Western flank, and if he didn't react, I'd be chewing in to his characters before too long.

Neither of us were broken this match, as he still had his general, BSB and two standards, and I had 3 standards and my general still remaining. We both had incredibly high fortitude points - 7 each! One of the unseen advantages of my list actually, and I also have 100 points less to give up by not allowing the other player the bonus of 100 points for the BSB.



In the end, I'm much happier with this game than the first one. Despite it being recorded as a Draw, in my mind it was a win, and it illustrated something that I've really been hoping to be able to demonstrate for a while - the lore of light lets High Elves grind down units. No, it doesn't have access to horde busting spells like Dwellers, but with the defensive and offensive buffs combined with good troop selection, we can actually put the hurt on units like the one he fielded where we would normally be trampled.

I'd also like to note that this match also is the best example of why I chose to include swordmasters. In an edition with huge units, it often comes down to volume of attacks, and in that respect there is no comparison to swordmasters. There is simply no way I could have ground down that unit in time without them.


I'll try to get my Round 3 matchup up tonight - trust me, it's worth the wait :S

D

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
If Brewmaster had not advanced T1 and the Skaven had sent his Rats East (to the Skaven player's left), he would've lost the game easily: with 2 Eagles and Reavers Brewmaster could've utterly annihilated the rest of the Skaven force (just cast timewarp every single phase and there's no way he can dodge you) and the rats never would've done anything.


It's certainly possible! However, I'm always a fan of splitting up an enemies force if you can do it while maintaining your own line! Perhaps just a difference in play style!?

Looking forward to reading the third one tonight!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:18 pm 
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Hey, Brad here. Stumbled upon the report and figured I toss in my "I didn't cheat!" clause.

Quick Math:

Alive:
Grey Seer - 285, BSB Chieftain - 122, Slaves - 62, Clanrat Unit #1 (above half) - 177.5, Clanrat Unit #2 (above half) - 173.
Alive Total - 819.5
1 Captured Table Quarter for me - 50 points

Dead: Plague Priest - 129, Clanrat Unit #3 - 150.5, Clanrat Unit #4 - 150.5, Giant Rats - 450, Hellpit #1 - 250, Hellpit #2 - 250
Dead Total - 1380

No BSB, General kills, or banner captures (that I remember at least) for either of us.

Sorry for the hasty response, GF and I are trying to grab some dinner, something about an anniversary that I may have forgotten about. Oh god, I can hear her approaching... HELP ME!

- Brad


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Apothecary wrote:
Sorry for the hasty response, GF and I are trying to grab some dinner, something about an anniversary that I may have forgotten about. Oh god, I can hear her approaching... HELP ME!


3 words for you...sucks to be...adding a forth...YOU! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:46 pm 
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@Brad - I have the impression that you're a nice guy to play against and as such I think any mistakes were genuine errors. According to the report though your clanrats did have standards, meaning he'd capture 2. Also I believe you got 1 from the Swordmasters at the very end.

@Faulkner - I see that my wording was unclear: what I meant to say was that if Brad had commited the Rats to the East, he would've lost the game as the High Elves could've engaged the rest of the Skaven with ease, using the Eagles and Reavers to block the Rats off. This, coupled with their HUGE size and the building would spell doom.

Brewmaster - You could've advanced with nothing but your Archers and achieved the same. If you had to move 6" this would not have put you dangerously far ahead compared to your infantry. This would've forced him to commit prior to your actions, besides keeping the distance makes Timewarp a LOT harder to counter (in particular a bubble version) as a sudden 20" march / 17" average charge distance means a lot more when the distance is greater. Do you still think it was better to advance the whole line?

As for 13th and the Archmage, point taken. I guess you still could've moved the Archers with him and get that same, juicy spot.

T4 - 50 rats is a lot. However, that unit doesn't hold as much point as the GS bunker (+general +banner) relative to how hard it is to take down. I still would've taken my chances I think and charge the Grey Seer. Getting in the middle of it all with Timewarp and Pha's might just allow you to pull it off. It's a tough call really, but I think mostly the actions in the previous turns forced your hand - being unable to boost from a really juicy position and unwilling to go for a timewarp bubble due to the ridiculous 24+ to cast meant that you couldn't achieve the game-breaking effect you really needed to pull this off 'safely'. Now, don't get me wrong as a I think you played great, but even if you had won it would've been a small victory in the more typical 20-0 system and I think your position could've gotten you way more. Depending on the tournament style of course realizing what margin of win to aim for can be critical: just check out a couple of the matches I played in our league.

I've been toying with the idea of how to run the Coven @ ETC restricted events. This is my initial draft:

Lvl 4 Arkhan, GP
Lvl 2 Seer
LVl 1 Crystal
BSB RGoH

35 Spears
15 flaming Archers
10 Archers

14 Swords
14 Swords
14 Lions, BoS
14 Lions

2-3 Eagles

Should work out at around 2500. What are your thoughts with this setup? How would you tweak the Coven for ETC?

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Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


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