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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:23 am 
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Hi Seredain!

Good to see another report of yours taking shape! I really like your deployment and I wonder if the fact that you have a combined arms force helps you to deploy in such manner. You have your famous stairs formation, with shooting base occupying the center and some units guarding the refused flank while heavy hitters spearheaded by Silver Helms are already in a very good position to attack. What you achieve by that is that the rest of the army of your opponent is already too far away to help! I am not sure it the marauders on the East are going to see combat at all. And to do so they need to wheel to expose their flank to Lions and Dragon Princes. Excellent!

It looks to me your opponent has a tough decision to make. He can charge with a chariot on the West but it is a sucided against Silver Helms with a Prince. On the other hand you are too close so you can even charge it first and reform to face marauders while Swordmasters and Spears would follof closely. His Western flank is in a big trouble for sure!

Of course we should not underestimate Chaos Warriors, especially Chosen but that horde of marauders soon might not look that intimidating. I am also looking forward to see if your anti-disc artillery is going to hunt down their favourite target :)

Don't keep us waiting! :)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:09 am 
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I agree about the Favour of the Gods trick, it's gamey but it's legal. Not a guarantee but a very good chance of getting that 3+ Ward up. But can't you just cast Dwellers on them?

Ah...

:)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Hey Seredain,

Add one more in the "Gamey but legal" category. This particular rule loophole is a personal pet pieve. The real oversight came in the 8th edition common magic items, giving the Chosen access to a banner that causes terror. I can't remember the exact odds, but this item allows a Warriors player with 2 warshrines to have something like a 33% chance each turn of getting the ward. It's ridiculous, and anybody who tries to argue that that is by design is completely out to lunch. Dwellers isn't even really an option, because of the ease with which the chaos player can get +1 S, for a total of S5 and near dwellers immunity.

He's also right about the buff staying on the unit after the shrine dies. [sarcasm]Why not, right? I mean it makes sense[/sarcasm]

Your strategy is exactly the way I would approach it - ignore the chosen and take the low hanging fruit. Versus marauders, all of our troops are very effective, including our core. It shouldn't be tough to put enough force into those hordes to pop them in one go and subsequently dance around the chosen.

I know the game is already played, but if you have the opportunity to vaul's his terror banner before he gets the ward, the odds of him getting it drop significantly. I'm pretty sure you can vaul's favour of the gods as well for a similar effect.

Having said that, your decision to pop the ward on the disc sorcerer was a sound one as well.

Can't wait to see how it pans out!

D

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:24 pm 
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What's not clear in the Warrior book (unless it was FAQ'd for clarity) is that the table can be re-rolled if there's a duplicate effect, but it doesn't state that non-table effects count as tabled effects… which doesn't seem clear from writing it.

Example would be: If you've already been granted Terror from the Eye of the Gods, and you roll terror again, you can re-roll the result.

Terror from the banner is not equivalent to terror from Eye of the Gods because the banner can be nullified with a spell.


As the rulings have been fought to a standstill on forums by Warriors of Chaos players, everyone just accepts them for what they are, and you're forced to let the Chaos player roll 200 times. Honestly it's gamey because there's so much grey area in this ruling (what happens if you buff a unit with terror from a spell, does this count? Does frenzy granting +1 attack = +1 attack from shrine? etc.

I believe the only rolls that aren't re-rolled are: 4, 5, 11, and 12 (11 and 12 choose


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:18 pm 
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Baeronvonbleat wrote:
What's not clear in the Warrior book (unless it was FAQ'd for clarity) is that the table can be re-rolled if there's a duplicate effect, but it doesn't state that non-table effects count as tabled effects… which doesn't seem clear from writing it.
Example would be: If you've already been granted Terror from the Eye of the Gods, and you roll terror again, you can re-roll the result.
The WoC book looks completely clear on Terror/Fear to me. They explicitly say to re-roll if the favoured one already causes Terror/Fear.


As for endlessly re-rolling, and re-rolling earlier gifts, that is confirmed by the WoC FAQ.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Hey everyone,

Thrillingly, I've spent the last few days reading all the posts in this thread, and I have to say that this is overall one of the best threads I've seen. As everyone's said, great comments by the boss man, of course, but an incredible amount of clever and thoughtful posts with only the rarest touches of typical forum sniping. Hats off to you all!

But down to the brass tacks, by way of a quick personal history (WFB-related only): I'm new to the game, about six months' maybe with probably 15 or 20 games. Having recently moved up to 3,000 points (the level at our shop), I only had about 4 or 5 games at that level until I came across this thread. I had been an ardent disciple of big infantry blocks, I found myself questioning the wisdom of choosing HE for my army. However, after just one game using the Cavalry Prince as my template, I am now a member of the Church of Seredain.

I had to gross up the list a tad to get from 2,500 to 3,000, but I did so based almost exclusively on the list, so not a ton of changes.

Prince - barded steed, Giant Blade, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Loec
Archmage - level 4, Life, Annulian Crystal (I know! No dispel scroll! More to come on this), Guardian Phoenix, Ironcurse icon

Noble - barded steed, BSB, GW, Dawnstone, Amulet of Light

Silver Helms x 8 - musician, shields
DPC x 6 - musician
SMoH x 16 (deployed in 6x2 +4) - FC, Skeinsliver, Banner of Sorcery
WLoC x 16 (also 6x2 +4) - FC, Gem of Courage, Banner of Eternal Flame
Lion Chariot of Chrace (at higher points I felt this might be worth the upgrade--who knows)

Spearmen x 40 - FC, Gleaming Pennant
Archers x 15 - musician, standard bearer
Archers x 15 - musician, standard bearer

RBT x 2
GE x 2

Total - 3,000 pts.

Because my units aren't fully (or even close to fully!) painted :oops:, I didn't take any pictures and won't bore you all with a wall of BR text from an unenlightened strategist, but I would like to make a couple of comments/suggestions, if I may be so bold:
- Deployment and movement is absolutely the weakest part of my game. I've seen quite a few people post here that want to try bits and pieces of the list but don't want to totally abandon what they're used to. That is certainly well within y'all's various prerogatives, but I strongly urge you to just jump in feet first. What better way to help develop a weakness than take an army that forces you to get better (or pay dearly)?
- The second weakest part of my game is not knowing what the various enemy forces do since I'm so new and haven't played very many opponents. Going up against a VC army two days ago, I didn't know cute things like, "ethereal units can just walk through your units for 1 S5 hit per model in the unit." Ouch. But by using combined arms tactics and having a lot of drops to throw at the cause, I was able to navigate a situation that would have been absolutely disastrous had I only had 4 huge infantry blocks.
- I was able to defeat (I submit humbly that it wasn't even close: not a single skeleton survived while I had lost maybe 1,000 points for a VP margin of nearly 2,300) a much more veteran player because he underestimated the Helm Bus, far and away my MVP of the match. And even he didn't fully grasp the magnitude of the combined arms strategy. He would utter phrases such as, "oh good! This is what we call 'free kills' in my business!" as I would charge a unit into his front. And then one into his flank. And another. And one into the rear. And then he fell quiet.
- Nothing has ever been more gratifying than when he challenged my Helm Bus with his general and I accepted with the Prince. I then evoked the ToL. He then wept after being forced to re-roll 4 6+ AS that he had nailed with four 6s. The RR was unkind.

Many thanks to Seredain and all you fine folks who have contributed to this.

The Cavalry Prince is well on its way to sweeping through the Midwestern United States! So if you do manage to bring your tricks across the pond, I shall ensure the colonists are ready for it.

All the best,
Judson


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:47 am 
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Thanks for the Shrine Wisdom everyone. This collection of items and abilities is clearly something to watch out for for a good while yet!

Judson,

What a nice bunch of comments - thank you. I've been thinking on my own 3000pt list recently (a mate of mine is playing in a 3K tournie) and it provides some really nice opportunities to add some significant capability. My efforts have so far been mostly on boosting the magic phase, but I like the Lion upgrade on your chariot. It's a really powerful partner for your helms. I'll come back to this topic in more detail in a little while. In the meantime...

JudsonCc wrote:
And even he didn't fully grasp the magnitude of the combined arms strategy. He would utter phrases such as, "oh good! This is what we call 'free kills' in my business!" as I would charge a unit into his front. And then one into his flank. And another. And one into the rear. And then he fell quiet.

...this is what I like to hear. Haha!

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What you achieve by that is that the rest of the army of your opponent is already too far away to help! I am not sure it the marauders on the East are going to see combat at all. And to do so they need to wheel to expose their flank to Lions and Dragon Princes.

That's the plan! ;)

Often easy to forget the usefulness of archer units in situations like this. In the situation I'm running here, the white lions hold the front arc of the chaos infantry while the archers and dragon princes move into the flank. A few extra ASF attacks, and a couple of ranks, can add a useful amount of punch against unarmoured opponents (and another unit to pursue with). Every little helps...

SpellArcher wrote:
I agree about the Favour of the Gods trick, it's gamey but it's legal. Not a guarantee but a very good chance of getting that 3+ Ward up. But can't you just cast Dwellers on them?

Ah...

:)

Hah! Nice try SA. I'm not sure a spell with a casting value of 21+ is worth it to kill 3.3 chosen. Even chosen who've had their weetabix. Nah, it's armoured sword-wielding prince (um, or a squidgy eagle) to the face for those boys!

Brewmaster_D wrote:
Having said that, your decision to pop the ward on the disc sorcerer was a sound one as well.

Just too tempting to pass up! If I can Vaul's your character's defence and throw a load of bolts at him, I'll usually do it. It's just so... mean.

Anyway, one with the next stage of the report... Ready for more rules quibbles?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:49 am 
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Chaos Turn 1

Deciding that the Khorne horde couldn't stand against my advance, my opponent chose to reform them into the building (ie reforming them into a long line, touching the building and therefore entering it). On the face of it, this was annoying – I wanted those troops dead – but, in reality, it provided me with some excellent opportunities. For one, I could dedicate my cavalry characters to killing expensive targets. The shrines, though tough as old boots, were vulnerable to the static res I could muster alongside the helms, and the hellcannon was very vulnerable to my high-strength weapons. Finally, the marauders had effectively taken themselves out of the game. All I had to do was park an eagle outside the building, and they'd be unable to assemble outside.

This particular problem for Chaos was made worse when the sorcerer lord, rightly afraid of my bolt throwers, scarpered toward the building and landed on his side of it, near the corner (blocking the space I couldn't reach with my nearest eagle). Tactical error number 2 came in his placement. Perhaps wanting to keep line of sight open for a Flickering Flames against my helms, the sorcerer stood in hard cover, but visible. And the idol of Gork (or possibly Mork), was giving my cavalry itchy feet...

The hounds did what they were supposed to do and advanced into the teeth of my knights but, stood two across as they were (originally deployed so as to fit through the gap between the idol and the barricade), couldn't block off all the options I had open. The chariot now moved to cover the space between my prince and the valuable hellcannon and the shrines completed the wall by moving west into the woods. I'd have to bust through some ward saves to get much done here!

To my surprise, the rest of the chaos army remained largely static. This was, I suspect in hindsight, principally because my opponent figured his magic phase and hellcannon would force me forward in a unilateral advance. I was happy to face off in this way, however, since it give me plenty of time to pick up points in the west, threatening the hellcannon directly, and safely shoot him in the centre and east.

Magic. A very respectable 10 (or so) dice was muted slightly by Drain Magic, which saw a fair few dice getting chucked at each spell to get it up. Unfortunately for me, my opponent rolled high with each of his casts, first seeing Pandemonium go up successfully (I let it through, confident that my BSB would do the job), then Gateway on the helms – another big roll that forced my scroll out to stop it (I wasn't going to risk it). Flickering Fire on the helms was, at least, stopped by all my dice.

Shooting then. Since Seredain's bodyguard had come through the magic phase unscathed, the hellcannon figured it couldn't do much against the shielded knights and belted a missile toward Lecalion's advancing spearelves. Thankfully, the shot soared over their heads and smashed harmlessly into the open field.

High Elves Turn 2

Clearly my opponent wasn't expecting me to try and charge out of the helms with only one of my characters because, when I declared the intention to run one of them through the gap between the totem and the dogs, he looked miffed! At first, I wanted to declare a charge with the prince: leaving the helms at an angle, getting through the gap, wheeling toward the sorceror, completing the charge and closing the door corner to corner. However, my opponent argued that, in leaving the unit at an angle, my prince was effectively making his first wheel, meaning that he couldn't wheel to face the sorcerer once through the gap and therefore couldn't complete charge (see Figure 1, below).

Image
The charge that wasn't. Seredain, by leaving the unit at this angle, was (my opponent argued), conducting a wheel move, making the wheel I needed to face the sorcerer impossible, since I was only allowed one per charge.
EDIT: Seredain was actually deployed in the centre of the unit, making the 'wheel' mechanic technically impossible when leaving the unit.


Rule Quibble 3 – Charging out of a unit at an angle

So: you can only wheel once during a charge. When a character leaves his unit at an angle other than the unit facing, does this constitute a 'wheel' for the purpose of charging?

I argued (naturally) that it did not, since wheeling in the normal sense was made completely impossible in the context of leaving a unit, as the character would be in base to base contact with his fellows and unable to physically pivot (try placing your character in the front rank of any of your units. Then try 'wheeling' him on the spot). Since, rather, the character was not an independent model at the time of leaving the unit (he is part of the unit), the mechanics of 'wheeling' were not appropriate for this part of the move. He was able to leave the unit at whatever angle he chose and then make his one wheel during the charge as normal. We couldn't agree it, however, so I chose the other, more straightforward option, and charged Caradath out instead, in a nice straight line. :)

Image
The charge that was. Caradath gallops through the gap and, with the inadvertent help of Gork, or possibly Mork, completes the charge against the sorcerer lord.

Convinced that I'd spelled Doom for the sorcerer lord, it was time to follow in Caradath's wake. The silver helms, still led by Seredain, took a free reform and simply moved around the warhounds to face the chariot and dare it to charge. To their left, the nearby eagle swooped to the ground just to the south of the corner building, preventing the unwieldy 50 Khorne marauders from exiting on that side.

With no marauders to fight, the swordmasters and spears simply held back to allow my knights to get carving without getting flanked by anything serious while, on my right, the princes and green archers continued to stretch out my right flank in case the Chaos infantry did anything adventurous. The white lions held their ground to threaten the centre of the field.

Magic was good in terms of power - 9 v 5 - and I luckily channelled an extra dice so was able to do good things. First, Pandemonium was dispelled. Next, Shield went up on the helms again. Then I chucked 5 dice at Vaul's Unmaking against the Chosen... Chaos was unable to dispel it with his 5 dice and, in a stroke, I'd killed the chosen's ability-manipulation item. Kerching! Drain Magic rounded things off nicely with a one-dice cast. Not bad at all.

In the shooting phase, I killed off all but one of the 2nd central dogs unit with archers, and scythed down a rank of Tzeentch marauders with the repeaters.

It was all about combat, though, and things went much as I expected. Caradath swung his great sword and cleaved into the Chaos sorcerer lord, inflicting two wounds. His finely wrought armour was also completely proof against his enemy's desperate replies and, with a combat win of +4, I broke the sorcerer and ran him off the table. A good start...

Image
Not a great picture, but a great moment for a mighty battle standard bearer!

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Last edited by Seredain on Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:00 am, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:10 am 
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Hi Seredain!

I am not sure how to deal with such situation either. Fortunately you were able to make a proper charge with BSB who had his glorious moment too! It is not easy to live in the shadow of the great Prince, so I guess BSB was more than eager to show he can perform heroic deeds too!

This is a very good example of how flexible your army is and one of the aspects I tried to use when I played with it. Your characters can dart from the unit any time and if you only remember to position the unit properly, they have a lot of opportunities to be useful with or without their bodyguards. The situation on the board changed and your units cannot make a combined charge? No worries, you can go with more individual hunt and earn some points too.

I am not sure, however, if reforming, thus enabling marauders to move further than their normal movement allowance, counts when they wanted to enter the building. I don't have the book with me at the moment but it does not look clear to me.

Looking forward next turns!

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:10 am 
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I am pretty sure your opponent is correct here, you have to move the character directly forward until he is physically capable of wheeling, I do not see anything in the BRB suggesting otherwise. Your intended move with the Prince sounds like wishful thinking, unfortunately ;) even single models do not get to pivot or choose their angle at the start of their charge so there is no reason they would suddenly get it because they are in a unit.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:03 am 
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An auspicious beginning, indeed!

I think your opponent certainly has the right of this issue about the solo character charging (whether in a unit or otherwise). According to your diagram, it seems that Seredain would indeed be wheeling (holding his left front corner still) to the left when exiting the unit. At any rate, it sounds like you ended up with a fair and satisfactory conclusion for all involved! (except the disk lord, naturally)

Rather than swift reform to go around the warhounds, why did you not simply charge them and subsequently reform to face the chariot and simultaneously eliminate the dogs' nuisance factor? Was it simply a matter of terrain tests? If so, I applaud your smart move!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:13 am 
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@Nicene - when a character charges out of a unit, the unit cannot charge. As such, the BSB charging the Sorc.Lord prevented the Helms from charging the hounds. Seredain could've charged them alone but that would mean he would be left stranded in WoC T2 - not a good proposition when he's facing a Hellcannon and Gateway!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:47 am 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
I am pretty sure your opponent is correct here, you have to move the character directly forward until he is physically capable of wheeling, I do not see anything in the BRB suggesting otherwise. Your intended move with the Prince sounds like wishful thinking, unfortunately ;) even single models do not get to pivot or choose their angle at the start of their charge so there is no reason they would suddenly get it because they are in a unit.


I think Curu's pretty much spot on here. Just like units, characters have to wheel to complete charges so you would have to move directly forward until you were in a position to do so leaving a double wheel needed to make the charge (which of course is a no go as you said).

Job done regardless though :D Looking forward to the rest of the report, love the whole thread.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:01 am 
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@curu: well could he? I was under the impression that as long as a acharacter is in a unit, he counts as beint 'part of the unit',
And as the bsb charge prevents the unit from charging, a separate charge by seredain would be impossible as well I think... Any reason to think otherwise?

Oh and I agree that the seredain charge indeed couldn't and shouldn't have happened :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:08 am 
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It's a bit of a grey area I think but it says that the unit cannot declare a charge: if a single character in a unit declares a charge then the unit itself has still not declared a charge (and as such you don't break the rule). This is how everyone I know plays it as well but I can definitely see it being argued otherwise.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:22 am 
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Hey where's seradin's most recent and up to date list??

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:01 am 
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It's on the 1st page, he updates it when he makes changes.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:35 am 
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I think that the list on page 1 isnt the most recent one anymore so 3 or 4 pages back is where I would look.

Seradin: Question about the A-Mage: Is it possible to take 2 lvl 2s instead? you lose the 4+ on activating spells, but still got +3 to dispell, with this you could potentialy divide your magic between 2 mages. With this you could hopefully get one mage who is more combat-oriented and one that can stay back more, to minimize the risk of losing the whole magicphase early?


Edit: Also this would give you 2 drain magic if this is necessary?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:26 am 
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Shinzou wrote:
Edit: Also this would give you 2 drain magic if this is necessary?


I can't answer the other stuff, but if you took both High Magic on both Lvl 2s, they would both get Drain Magic. It's one of the spells that can repeat across mages and stacks. But your second casting is also impacted with the +3, so gotta keep that in mind. But then your opponent's phase is a full +6 to cast.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Shinzou wrote:
I think that the list on page 1 isnt the most recent one anymore so 3 or 4 pages back is where I would look.


Seredain has made this blog as easy as he can to read, his first post is constantly updated with changes he's made.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:11 pm 
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Dear Seredain,

Looking forward to the rest of the battle report! Not pushing you, just trying to encourage you, since we've all be enjoying your adventures so much! Any plans, or are you just teasing us or testing our patience :) ?

Yours sincerely!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:04 am 
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Some interesting comments re. the choice between the archmage and the two Level 2s, guys. I'll deal with those in a mo but, for now, on with the report...

Jadex wrote:
Dear Seredain,

Looking forward to the rest of the battle report! Not pushing you, just trying to encourage you, since we've all be enjoying your adventures so much! Any plans, or are you just teasing us or testing our patience :) ?

Yours sincerely!

Speak of the devil!


Battle Report continued - High Elves vs Warriors of Chaos

Chaos Turn 2

Seeing his main caster forced to the corner by missile fire and then decapitated, the commander of the Chaos forces was despondent. His best hope now, he thought, was to try and pin down my cavalry with single models and buy the Khorne marauders time to get into the game. The chaos chariot took the only option open to it, then, and smashed into the waiting silver helms. To my annoyance, the nearest shrine made a long charge to join him and put me under some pressure. Further to the west, the warhounds ignored by my cavalry now moved around my left flank (but where I had my backup eagle facing west to counter this next turn). The Khorne marauders, meanwhile, sheepishly emerged from the building and, since my first eagle had set up just to the south of there (to prevent an escape around my left flank), formed up over the area where their sorcerer had once stood. To my surprise, the rest of the chaos infantry, stretching out into the east, remained pretty static, the only real movement being made by the maruaduer horse who, finding themselves blocked off by a combination of dense buildings and a force of elven archers and knights, galloped behind Chaos lines and headed west. I guess my opponent's thinking was that, if he advanced too aggressively, I'd turn his left flank with a combination of units or burst through his warriors with my white lions. He also reckoned on his hellcannon doing work on my lines before combat but, from my point of view, the shooting war was in my favour.

Magic and, not surprisingly, there wasn't anything doing. If my opponent got any spells off, Lecalion dispelled them.

Shooting saw the shrines buzz up some powers but, without the manipulation item on the chosen, the bonuses weren't so bad for me. +1 toughness went up, along with magic resistance. Worse, the hellcannon belted a missile right into the heart of my infantry, landing it between the swordmasters and spears. Seven citizens and three elites died horrible, screaming deaths.

Combat saw the chariot and warshrine cleave into the silver helms. With lances lowered and shields raised, the elven horse defended themselves as best they could, aided by the blessing of Saphery, but they still lost three of their number. In the thick of the fighting, however, Seredain drew his sword and smashed three wounds off the chariot. This was good, but I still lost the combat and had to make a break test on leadership 10 (since the cavalry had a full rank and were stubborn), which... I passed. Phew.

Image
The prowess and leadership of the prince keeps the elven cavalry in the fight.

[Edit: you'll see I've already moved my archmage and, at the bottom just out of shot, the 2nd eagle: this is at the start of High Elf Turn 3.]

High Elves Turn 3

With the centre turning into something of a stalemate (albeit one I was happy with), my job was to consolidate my gains on the left flank. I wasn't willing to commit any of my infantry - the Khorne marauders were too far out and I wasn't willing to put anything close to the chosen just yet. Instead, I resolved upon a holding action to buy Seredain time to smash up the expensive models to be found there. Since the knights were already in combat, this meant eagle action and the return of the BSB. Eagle 1, stood by the building, now swept down infront of the Khorne marauders to pin them in that corner, safely stuck behind their 2nd shrine. While they were thus neautralised, Caradath emerged back onto the field and galloped right behind them, daring the hellcannon to try its luck. Eagle 2 did what it was supposed to and, in defense of the open ground behind my western advance, charged the warhounds. Meanwhile, with an eye on the engaged warshrine sticking around against my knights (with its damned 4+ ward save), Lecalion left his spearelf bodyguard and marched into its flank zone. If the thing had the temerity to stick around, I'd at least get some combat res on it next turn.

Toward the centre, the swordmasters and spears stayed static facing toward the Chaos centre. The spears kept their eye on the warriors in particular, sensing a future combination with the white lions to smash through this weak point and get behind enemy lines. With the new plan in mind, word went along the elven line to redirect all missile fire into the warriors while, to the east, the green archers and dragon princes continued their encirclement of the right flank.

In the magic phase, I couldn't get arrow attraction off on the warriors, but Lecalion blasted two chosen from the earth with the Fury of Khaine, then used his wiles to shatter the power of the their Terror banner, dragging away their chance to get the 3+ ward they craved. Vaul be praised!

Without the curse guiding their missiles, the elven archers proved completely useless at skewering chaos warriors, not managing to kill a single one. I'm a great believer in concentrating my shooting power as much as possible but, it seems, archers should try and stick to killing marauders. The repeaters, however, performed well and brought down four of the fifteen warriors with a hail of bolts.

In combat, Eagle 2 crushed two hounds in its talons and drove the others on, failing to catch them but, probably, putting them out of the game. Seredain carried on his good work in the centre, swinging his great sword to crush the chariot and put a wound on the warshrine. Two silver helms were lost to the shrine but it was an elven victory this time (due to my musician), which forced a break test on the shrine, only to see it passed. Annoyingly.

Image
Awaiting a decision in the west, the advance of both armies grinds to a halt even as elven missiles begin to erode the chaos centre...

Chaos Turn 3

The western dogs, not wanting another taste of Eagle 2, fled the field. The khorne marauders, meanwhile, did what they thought was the only useful option and surged forward to overwhelm Eagle 1. The second shrine didn't want try a charge against my prince (fine by me- perhaps it didn't fancy its luck with ward saves), staying camped in the wood just infront of the marauders. And other movement...? Still pretty much nothing. Content that the hellcannon would do its work, that the khorne marauders would overwhelm (or pin) my prince in place and (perhaps above all) nervous about being flanked by my right flank, the body of the Chaos army simply held its ground. The chosen, too far away to charge convincingly, and unwilling to abandon their fragile warrior comrades (and also, perhaps, to commit against the swordmasters without a mega ward save), likewise stood their ground and kept their BSB within range of the hellcannon and the engaged warshrine, now desperately battling to hold the elf prince at bay.

Magic was another dud, elven archmagery proving superior by far to the Chaos hero's crude attempts at conjuring some fireballs, or whatever the hell he thought he was doing. The shooting phase was a bit more of a worrying prospect, however, with the hellcannon gazing down upon my lone BSB. True to form, and completely unconcerned by the danger to the marauders, the beast fired an immense missile at the elven hero, but could only bellow in powerless anger as it scattered wide. Caradath, emboldened, raised his sword in mocking salute. The maruader horse, having swung round into the western front to face the swordmasters, now tried their luck with some javelins but, enjoyably, couldn't kill anything. The shrines couldn't help out either, since one (again) rolled the magic resistance result for the chosen while the other gave them terror which, with the terror banner newly eradicated, stuck. The broken ward chosen combo seemed undone! Pay heed, deathstar haters: Vaul's Unmaking is your friend.

Combat saw the engaged eagle ripped to shreds by Khorne's marauders, followed by the unedifying spectacle of a whole horde of barbarians overrunning a single bird into the flank of their own warshrine: fine by me. Seredain, meanwhile, performed stellar work against the other warshrine, successfully wounding with all of his attacks... Only to see three of them saved by 4+ ward rolls. Argh! This is, I think, the precise moment that I resolved to draft in the Other Trickster's Shard (albeit on my BSB). I wasn't willing to burn the talisman yet, but this shrine was getting annoying. Another silver helm was brought down by the shrine's cultists; I won the combat again, but the shrine held with the aid of the Chaos BSB's re-roll.

High Elves Turn 4

The khorne marauders were nullified for at least another turn, but my battle standard bearer was feeling the call of destiny. Holding his standard high in the wind, he let out his battle cry and plunged into the exposed rear ranks of Khorne's marauders. Likewise sensing that the time was ripe, Lecalion assaulted the flank of the warshrine fighting Seredain; assailing it, we must assume, with ghostly noises. Elsewhere in the field, I was happy with the status quo. The longer we waited before a general engagement, the more time my magic and shooting had to bring down the chaos infantry, and the more time my characters had to win the left flank. What little movement there was saw the surviving eagle fly to the flank of the khorne marauders, looking to hop infront of the chosen as required and tempt the hellcannon, dangerously close by, to do something stupid. In the east, the white lions, sensing weakness in the ranks of chaos warriors, advanced to threaten a charge if they chose to come forward. Meanwhile the dragon princes continued to shift around the flank, coming to a halt almost perpendicular to the line of buildings and facing westwards. If the Tzeentch marauders came forward and marched passed the buildings now, they couldn't avoid a flank charge from either the dragon princes or the white lions, with the archers in support as well if I saw fit. In effect, the Chaos left now had to choose between advancing into a trap, or standing still and getting shot. It wasn't a good set of options.

The magic phase, a poor 6 v 5 setup, again saw the arrow curse getting trampled by all my opponent's dice. On the plus side, Lecalion threw Shield of Saphery back up on the prince and his comrades, hoping that the extra save would stack the odds further in favour of the elves...

In the shooting phase, my units finally divided their efforts by choosing to kill what was infront of them. The repeaters targeted the warriors again and killed three - averagely good. The archers underperformed again, killing not very much but, nonetheless, providing a useful service. The last warhound bit the dust, becoming food for lesser dogs, while three more Tzeentch marauders also fell dead. Getting the dogs out of the way was useful, but I was happiest by the state of the warriors this round. If they ever saw combat against my elites in such small numbers, they were toast. The white lions began throwing taunts.

Combat, and I resolved the prince/archmage fight first. Sure enough, Seredain scored a decent three wounds, only to see two of them saved (ugh) and the warshrine, barely, live on. Fortunately, the shrine's cultists could only bring down a single helm and, with a combat resolution of 2 in my favour from the flanking archmage, it broke, fleeing away from the prince and directly toward its brother shrine. Seredain, duty bound to kill this cursed thing, charged on, smashed it with gusto and overran into the surviving shrine to bring it a similar end. Lecalion dashed after the prince but, on foot as he was, couldn't quite close the distance and came to a stop just inside the woods, directly to the west of the Chaos line. The was perfect, however, since he was immune to non-magical damage (everything in the chaos army) and, being a lone character in woods, was also stubborn. With the prince and BSB nearby, my left flank now had a permanent anchor. However, the greatest battle, of course, was to be found further to the west...

Even as his mailed horse crashed heavily into the midst of a whole host of barbarian warriors, the elven battle standard bearer, Caradath, caught sight of a flashing light beyond, then another - the sword blade of the prince, carving through the air and racing north toward the trees. The light brought with it sound, of vengeful laughter, the twisted screams of slaughtered cultists and a shouted challenge across the heads of the interposing northmen: "Join me!" The words barely reached the ears of the elven noble even as his own sword began to swing.

The few barbarians who were even aware that their rear was under attack had barely time to turn their heads before slumping lifeless to the ground. Eventually, more heads did turn as the commotion grew, only to see a great shining sword blade mercilessly cleaving apart the bodies of their comrades and, above, the standard of the High Elves- blazing furiously in the sunlight. The sky was now smote loudly with the light of elven runes: it blinded them, deafened them, reached into their souls and called them weak, howled for vengeance. It grew large in their minds and finally shattered their will even as its bearer, so small beneath it now, shouted and gloried in his triumph, teeth bared, drenched in the blood of his enemies. In a flurry of disordered shouts and cries, the formation of marauders broke completely and scattered. Most men fled for safety in the trees to the east but noble Caradath rode on, as the light of day returned to its usual bloody hue, and pursued the survivors through thick woodland before crashing headlong into another battle between more cultists and, here, the High Elf prince, Seredain, still laughing and perhaps, though it was hard to tell, even singing. He called out to his old friend as he swung his mighty sword- crashing- into iron-bound devil-worshipers and the strange relics of Chaos. "You're late brother, haha! Welcome!"

From a distance, the picture was clearer. My BSB had won combat against the marauders with a combat resolution of 7 (rear charge, standard, three kills), vs 4 (ranks and standard - no wounds). The marauders then failed their steadfast break test on a 7, fled and were run down by Caradath as he pursued headlong into the flank of the last warshrine, now engaged by Seredain, spelling its doom next phase (I'd have a static res of 3 before wounds), and leaving the path to the hellcannon open to a charge on my next turn. In short, the western flank was now mine for the loss of only one eagle. Brilliant. With the hellcannon under threat, the Chaos centre under siege from shooting and magic and the Chaos left effectively pinned in place, my opponent called it a day and conceded.

Image
The endgame: the khorne horde is routed and the first warshrine breaks and is destroyed as both Seredain and Caradath (replaced for this picture) converge on the last shrine. The last dog (centre left) is killed by arrows while more warriors fall to bolts in the centre of the field.

Image
Victory to the High Elves!

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Last edited by Seredain on Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:57 am 
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Haha, awesome. I love the flavor text surrounding Caradath's fateful charge. "Called them weak," indeed!

I can't understand the tactics of your opponent. He would have had a chance to do some damage on the east while your DPs were prancing around the building; seems like he should have been pressing forward at full speed. Isn't that what his list is designed to do?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:02 am 
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Well played Sir
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I loved the little fluffy bit, and they way it worked in the game was priceless, well played Sir.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:23 am 
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Seredain wrote:
I'm with you here but, unfortunately, the decision has already been made for me in my local group. The rule followed is that, "if it doesn't say you can't, you can", so 7thEd army book spells are all treated this way. There's nothing I can do about gateways in combat, for example, or (and this is really sick),

While this is true as a general rule, this is against spell rules. Page 31: "unless stated otherwise, following restrictions apply". So if one would choose to go strictly by the letter, all spells follows Rulebook limitations plus any other limits in spell's description. Since this rule is obsolete when considering 8th edition, various communities choose to alter the rule, with the most popular being the ruling that is in the ETC:
Quote:
[old spells] use their own description for targeting purposes and whether they require their target to be in the front arc, but cannot be cast into combat unless it specifically mentions so. Sentence "any unit" or similiar is considered to be non specific. Additionally, caster is considered to be in his own front arc and is able to see himself and the unit

Your group is the only one that I know of that allows casting spells into CC. Maybe considered taking a discussion with your community? Whatever suits you, I guess :)

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a double-shrine Tzeentch chosen unit toting the Eye of the Gods manipulation item and the Terror banner. In this instance, the controlling player (who's actually a really cool guy and excellent player, by the way, though you might hate him for this!), deliberately chooses Eye gifts he already has (using the item), so that he can keep rolling on the Eye table until he gets what he wants (the +1 attack, +1 toughness or ward save). I've literally stood there for 5 minutes and watched him roll these dice. He knows it sucks, but apparently there's no rule against it so he's free to take advantage.


This is done perfectly by the rules. Also, if he would have Mask of EEE he would also be entitled to make the reroll for fear/terror result.

cheers
Furion

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:37 pm 
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'The standard of the High Elves -blazing furiously in the sunlight.'

Epic stuff!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Hi Seredain!

It is not often when single model destroys 40 or so on the charge. This situation only make me want to convert mounted battle standard bearer :) I think it would not be an exaggeration to say that your BSB was true hero of a day. First he defeated chaos lord and then he destroyed huge unit on his own. Amazing! Stuff of legends indeed!

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:33 pm 
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Excellent game! I loved the fluffy bits too. Aenarion couldn't have done better. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:03 am 
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Problem with your BSB... can't you only have one type of armor. Dragonhelm can't be taken because it replaces the mundane armor right?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:33 am 
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Th3_5had0w_K1ng wrote:
Problem with your BSB... can't you only have one type of armor. Dragonhelm can't be taken because it replaces the mundane armor right?


No. It increases the armour by 1 point.

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