Hahaha! I turn my back for three seconds... No worries chaps - we're pretty chilled here.
I think that you can play many themes with this army, but an all-cavalry mongol army isn't one of the best- core infantry sort of ruins the horsey party. As for
Cannae, that's definitely a tactic that you can use. Check out the aforementioned 'Cup 'o Death' as a nice sort of formation or, similarly, the formation I adopted in that last game against the orcs: by the time the orcs were engaging with my infantry centre (deployed back), my flanks (deployed forward) had already begun the envelopment. As Milliardo says, though, High Elf armies tend to be very elite and consequently rather small. I'd use historical armies, generals and battles as inspiration, therefore, but I wouldn't try and shoe-horn myself into following their lead in every detail. I think putting elephants in your army might be pushing the Carthaginian metaphor a litte far, Milliardo.
Curu Olannon wrote:Seredain - could you write a little bit about how you play against tough, shooty armies? If you could examplify with battle reports that would of course be outstanding but simply explaining how you play against e.g. storm banner skaven or slannbunkerlizards would be great!
Sure thing. Soz I'm a little delayed on this - I know you asked about the Lizardmen earlier in the thread. As for Slann Lizards, I've fought them plenty of times. I've recorded a mini-report and full on Battle Report earlier in the thread- have a read and then, if you have any questions about how things went, let me know. In principle, you want to focus your energy in clearing away the skinks and getting control on the flank you want to attack - High Elves are good at this. Your job then is to overrun one flank, surround and then crush the slann's unit as quickly as you can. You don't want to get into grinding combats with lizards and the Slann's magic can force this. I've found a dispel scroll very handy for stopping that crucial toughness buff. Flaming attacks on a unit like white lions will eat through Earth Blood nicely.
Thoughts on Facing Shooty Armies
As for shooty armies, I've played machine-heavy orcs and a shooty empire army with this list (first few weeks of playing with it - I think I've mentioned these battles on Page 1), which I tackled much in the same way as I've shown with the
Against Refused Flank map above on page 9. Empire machines are not reliable hitters, so I found I could get my fast units into combat at a weak point quickly, break through and have my characters and knights go their separate ways to kill all the machines. The empire player had knights covering his refused flank, but my ASF characters made a mess of them. By the time I was ready to engage with my infantry, I had some rear charges on with the prince and remaining helms.
I look forward to playing Dwarfs with this list, but I haven't yet. I
have played them with an earlier Lvl4, Lvl2 + BSB list, where I deployed an extreme version of the anti-refused flank deployment I've already mentioned: I attacked the unit at the back of their refused flank- killed it all in a couple of turns (just like in the map I drew), so there was no support possible from other dwarf units. My current list could do it better, frankly, but with Dwarfs you should be ready to change your plans depending on what units they throw down. They've got good access to stubborn/unbreakable units. If you can't secure yourself a couple of rounds of combat to kill one of these units safely, go for a target you can break. In principle, against these targets (lots of people like hordes of dwarf warriors with great weapons - I'd like a shot at one of these), go for the 1-round kill or make sure you cover your strike from counter-charges if it's going to take longer advancing infantry units in the wake of your main attack can act as cover for the flanks.
As a High Elf general, your superior movement should mean you're able to focus a very large amount of power against a particular part of the Dwarf army. As a slow army, he'll usually find it difficult to respond, though units like anvils mean you don't want to hang around too long. Focus as much power as you need against this point. If it means deploying your whole army against only a part of his, do it. Shooting, magic, combined charges - all your efforts should go into breaking through this point. Once you manage it, you'll get the surround on other dwarf units and should be able to break them apart. These are the lessons I've learned with admittedly limited experience against Dwarfs. Still, my club's Mighty Empires campaign has begun and there's a dwarf army entering, so I'll probably have another battle against them soon enough!
Oh- one more thing. Kill the organ gun.
Proper Gunlines
Against gunlines, though, your general principle should be to get into combat as soon as possible! Milliardo, speaking in Swordmaster's 5th Battle Report thread, puts it well:
~Milliardo~ wrote:When facing gunlines, especially when they're made of weak, squishy, clumsy humans, don't be afraid of putting your cavalry front and center and sending them straight up the center. The Silver Helm bus can grind their way through most every unit on this table, and they definitely can with the aid of the chariot, eagles and D' Princes! Don't waste valuable time flanking in this kind of battle! Turn 2 charge for the win! The second that the 'Silver Greyhound' hits his Swordsmen, the battle is going well! If he flanks the Silver Helms, it eats charge distance away for your other units, as they can quickly pile into the flanks of those other units.
Milliardo's point is a good one! If you can get a Turn 2 charge with the bus and are fairly confident that it'll hold through multiple turns of combat (and it should), take it. I normally throw my knights at the end of an enemy line rather than the centre (it tends to make target selection more difficult for my opponent - if the helms are running right up the middle,
everything's gonna fly their way!) but, where you're outshot like this, a good rule of thumb in any case is just to get into combat as soon as possible. If you have a flank on, great, but don't manoeuvre so much that it keeps you in the open getting shot for longer than is necessary!
Finally, remember that, when you do attack an army like this, you really need to keep your helms, dragon princes and chariot together to provide force concentration and target saturation, allowing you to take some damage and still drive home your attack. Keep your spearelves and elites close by on the inside flank of your attack to provide close support (and, unfortunately for them, more targets). Concentration of force is important against any refused flank army but, against the really shooty ones and gunlines, it's even more important because of the hits you're going to be taking on the way in. Form your army into a fist, point it at a single part of the enemy army and get in there quickly.
Mighty Empires - First Game - Facing Daemons
Ah- another one more thing. My first game is this coming Thursday, against Daemons. I'm mostly aware of what this guy has (massive bloodletter unit of 30 or so (hee hee), 20 daemonettes, some juggernauts, some fast Slannesh ogre-sized things), as well as some of the basics (point DPs at Tzeentch units, kill the heralds). I'm pretty ignorant, however, as to the loadout that Bloodthirsters and Keepers will have. This guy knows he's playing High Elves and changes his list up before every game, so if he takes a BT I'm pretty sure he won't have the flaming sword. If anyone as a clue as to what other loadouts either of these greater daemons will have, a heads-up would be good!