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 Post subject: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Posts: 3416
Location: Univeristy of Glasgow
:o

Prince, Moon Dragon, GW, Armor of Caledor, Vambraces of Defense, The Other Trickster's Shard 557
Lvl 2 Mage, Lore of Life, steed (16points?), silver wand 161
Noble, BSB, Banner of World Dragon, GW, DA 184
25 Spears, FC, flaming 260
25 Spears, FC 250
15 Archers, sb 175
3 Eagles 150
28 Swordmasters, FC, amulet of light, Banner of Sorcery 515
7 Silver Helms, full armor, music 168
5 Shadow Warriors 80

2500

I went with life to heal/buff the dragon. Mage will be in helms to deliver him within 12 of the dragon with reasonable safety. I might go with reavers over helms but I think the extra armor is a bit more useful then the extra movement and reform. Helms arent there to get into combat, although they can clean up skinks or chase away fast cav and so on.

Swordmasters + BSB are the obvious 2nd main combat unit. Had to have the world dragon in there to protect vs the killer spells, if he dies in CC, he dies, I've written him off as killed already. I think the dragon can win games on his own. If he isnt tagged by artillery he will chew down most st 3-4 block infantry or nearly any non block infantry target. Especially if I get him to kill the mages early. I decided star dragon wasnt necessary. wounding on 2s with attack and thunderstomp should be enough. Shadow Warriors are there to deny opponents good scouting positions.

I do like the trickster's shard. Hes a real character killer and now I have something to throw into the stupid 3+ ward save garbage running around.

Archers will be my watchtower unit until swordmasters arrive. I have got the eagle, flaming and magical attack necessities covered.

Now, swordmasters vs artillery. I will deploy them in 2 ranks to minimize damage against the mortars and stone throwers. Thats the best I can do really. I can keep them in 2 ranks until they get to fight and have them reform after. I do have dragon/eagles for distraction so its not like my army is just infantry that will get pounded for 3 turns by magic and shooting

I haven't tried the list, its just a thought. Its something different then the same old book of hoeth/bsb/as-much-elites-as-you-can-fit competitive lists I see.

LA

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 Post subject: Re: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:07 pm 
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my girlfriend ended best high elf player (8/50)(using my army, lol) with such a list. S6 Thunderstomp compared to S5 is an enormous improvement, while S7 not that better than S6. Guess you are right there. I'm 100% sure that that steed costs 12 points. Maybe get ring of fury on your mage, for that damage spell? I think Seerstaff is better on a life mage.

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 Post subject: Re: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:06 pm 
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The Cavalry Prince
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Nice list Anathir. Your opponents will have a hard time deciding whether to go after your dragon (Trickster's Shard is a brilliant item for him) or swordmasters. 28 swordmasters is scary as hell.

And it's good to see the helms making an appearance. :)

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 Post subject: Re: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:07 pm 
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big fan of this list. I agree that the helms are probably better than reavers for a mage bunker/transport due to the armour save. They can also probably assist in dispatching a support unit or two at some point during the battle.

I will probably try something akin to this list at some point. All of the lists I have made so far have been the aforementioned archmage + BSB + mass elite infantry and they are indeed fairly boring and straightforward in play style. I make an attack plan, set it in action, hope my magic gets off at the right time, and that's pretty much it. I don't know, perhaps I am missing something about tactics in eighth edition, but so far its a far cry from my cav inf chariot mixed lists that I used towards the end of seventh edition. Its not even that I win all of my games with these simple lists, I don't ( I recently lost to a dwarf anvil list with 3 dispel scrolls, 4 warmachines, and 30 quarrelers), its mostly that at the end of the game I only would have done a few minute things differently. Furthermore that's all i could have done differently because the list is so damn simple.

Anywho I like the idea behind this list and I think it could work fairly well in execution. I'll have to try it versus dwarves or some other template happy army and see if it could stand up to the barrage at all. In the case of dwarves, the anvil would have to ground the dragon leaving swordmasters free to move full speed at the dwarven lines. I could definitely see it working. I don't think I would change anything much about the list excepting maybe fielding seaguard instead of spears and archers. Spears and archers are better imo, but I simply don't have the models anywhere near completion atm.


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 Post subject: Re: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:46 pm
Posts: 678
Lord Anathir wrote:
Prince, Moon Dragon, GW, Armor of Caledor, Vambraces of Defense, The Other Trickster's Shard 557
Lvl 2 Mage, Lore of Life, steed (16points?), silver wand 161
Noble, BSB, Banner of World Dragon, GW, DA 184
25 Spears, FC, flaming 260
25 Spears, FC 250
15 Archers, sb 175
3 Eagles 150
28 Swordmasters, FC, amulet of light, Banner of Sorcery 515
7 Silver Helms, full armor, music 168
5 Shadow Warriors 80

2500
Looking at the points allocated to the various units, it appears to me that the value of the SH unit is undervalued by 1 pt. To fix this, I would just drop 1 Archer. With the remaining points, I would give the Archer unit a musician and the SM champ the Dragonbane Gem (attentively, you could just give the SM champ the Dragon Helm).

Overall the list does look reasonable; however, I would likely (working from your list as posted):
- drop the SW;
- drop both unit champions from the Spears;
- add 1 more GE;
- add the Loremaster’s Cloak to the Mage’s magic kit; and
- add a musician to the Archers.

I think the concept of a 7 model SH buss for the life mage is a good one. The addition of the Loremaster’s Cloak should make the bus more durable.

As for the Other Trickster’s Shared, it’s an interesting idea, but wouldn’t the ToL accomplish the same thing while giving you re-rolls to hit (granted less valuable) and wound?


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 Post subject: Re: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:42 pm 
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The Cavalry Prince
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Foxbat wrote:
As for the Other Trickster’s Shared, it’s an interesting idea, but wouldn’t the ToL accomplish the same thing while giving you re-rolls to hit (granted less valuable) and wound?


On a single character that might be true, but the Shard also effects saves taken against wounds caused by the dragon, since it applies to the ward saves of all models in base contact. IMO this tips the balance for the Shard in favour of Loec on any large ridden monster. Loec would only affect attacks made by the Prince. As an additional thought, you might be less keen to lose the wound from Loec on the dragon lord, given he's going to be such a big target and likely take a lot of hits.

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 Post subject: Re: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:56 am 
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Posts: 310
So, it seems everyone likes this list, but I am not sure I do. I don't like Dragons in 8th edition at all, especially in a list like this. What do you do against a WoC list that has big horde units in it? Or against Skaven large numbers? The dragon will go in and kill a bunch, but they will be stubborn because of ranks. In this list you really have 2 fighting units. The dragon and the Sword Masters. The Sliver Helms hold your mage, and since you rely on him to deliver the life spells to your dragon, I doubt you want that unit in combat.

I have not been impressed with High Elf Spearmen. They just die too easy. A good WoC or LM magic list would blow those spear units up with the quickness. Then just run something with high numbers against your dragon, and probably get something else in the flank, then send everything else they have against the SMs. IDK, I just think, for the points, a large unit of WLs, a lvl 4 would be better than the Price and dragon and the lvl 2. Could probably get something like a chariot in there to support your spear block.

Can you explain what you plan to do with the dragon? I haven't actually played one in 8th edition, just hate the idea that they can't break large units. You want it fighting their large point units imo.


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 Post subject: Re: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:31 am 
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Also, I have the 7 SH with a mus at 169 points. So, you are actually 1 point over.

And, can you explain how you use your shadow warriors? I have found 5 to be pretty useless. I guess they can hunt warmachines, but cannons are about all they will take out. A elf bolt will just shoot them if needed and you can't take out stuff like the Hell Cannon, so that doesn't leave much. I find they 5 shots usually don't hit anything and 5, str 3 atks don't do much either, even with hatred. Then they are T3 with no saves. idk, seems like a lot of points. I know there is something I am missing though. Don't understand why they are 16 points each.


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 Post subject: Re: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:46 am 
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aj the dragon would hit the front (not flank) of a horde unit, take up most of their frontage, then next turn the spears come in and clip a corner and provide the ranks. Same goes for an elite unit like warriors. The dragon should be able to tank it and the spears will provide the ranks to break.

The shadow warriors are there for depolyment/tactics. If my opponent has 20 shades and theres a nice juicy forest/building in the middle of the board I have a decent chance of denying him that position. It does make my opponent think twice about deploying war machines on their own opposite my castle. And of course they make great redirectors.

Why I wrote a list like this is because I don't want to play the lvl4/bsb/elite infantry that is so bleeeding boring.

All that said it turns out I won't be doing this army after all, I will be moving on to getting my dwarfs done after my exams.

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And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"


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 Post subject: Re: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:32 pm 
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The new rules for skirmishers changed Shadow Warriors a lot.

Though an 80pt unit that scouts is always tempting.

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 Post subject: Re: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:17 am 
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Good point about the Shadow Warriors. Stopping them from deploying wherever they want is huge. However, I still don't see why GW made them 16 points each.

Also, at a tournament tonight a star dragon went head first into 16 Chosen (WoC) and destroyed them. Flame breath and thunder stomp, along with 6 str7 atks and 4 str 6 atks was just too much.

And yeah, I agree, the lvl 4/ bsb / elite infantry is getting old.


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 Post subject: Re: High Elves 2500
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:17 pm 
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I've played several 2,000 point lists with a prince on a griffon, and I can tell you Anathir is spot on about how to take on horde units with a monster general. As long as the army has units that can supply ranks, the dragon/griffon can charge the front of the unit, and hold it in place for your own large unit. The other way to run a monster general is to use him as a guided missile, crushing a support unit or two before swinging the main combats with a flank charge. Griffon/Dragon lists are perfectly viable in 8th addition, as long as your army has a way to supply static cr, and solid magic defense.

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