Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
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- Collinisimo
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Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
As these are the two best spells IMO, I am stuck between them. One is the master of Augments, and the other is the master of Hexes. Both has a 6th spell that is the best of the others specialty, so they are truly opposites.
So, what does Ulthuan think?
So, what does Ulthuan think?
Last edited by Collinisimo on Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Damn it, voted for life by accident instead of shadow
Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Shadow
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- Collinisimo
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Enabled re-voting.Lathaon wrote:Damn it, voted for life by accident instead of shadow
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Right now, I'm leaning towards shadow. I like that it is a bit more aggressive with damage. I will definitely be trying ALL lores though to find what fits me best.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Thanks. I say Shadow, because I like to open cans of whupass in the magic phase, and that's not really what Life's about. Plus I find it more appealing as a concept.
Having said that, I'd say that Life is theoretically better for HE because we often have fewer units than the opponent. When the opponent has lots of units, hexes won't hurt as much whereas buffs on our own troops could be more effective... Of course, this doesn't apply when we take MSU troops or a bunch of chariots...
Also, any kind of miscast protection is very nice.
Having said that, I'd say that Life is theoretically better for HE because we often have fewer units than the opponent. When the opponent has lots of units, hexes won't hurt as much whereas buffs on our own troops could be more effective... Of course, this doesn't apply when we take MSU troops or a bunch of chariots...
Also, any kind of miscast protection is very nice.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Going for Life myself as I would rather have the ability to buff/res my units
I think support is the way to win this edition. Archers and chariots to support each unit of combat troops
I think support is the way to win this edition. Archers and chariots to support each unit of combat troops
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
wamphyri101 wrote:Going for Life myself as I would rather have the ability to buff/res my units
I think support is the way to win this edition. Archers and chariots to support each unit of combat troops
I agree, plus dwellers below is a great big spell.
Life is the best overall lore imho. T7 white lions.... what they have always dreamed of.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
I haven't tried them in a game yet, but on paper I like Lore of Shadows more.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
out of the two i prefer shadow.
however i have a sneaky feeling heavens is my favourite overall. comet (which isnt remains in play!!!) and chain lightning are both fantastic. i like the push spell for upsetting peoples plans, and the two re-roll spells are situational but useful plus a s6 magic missile. and on top of that extra damage to flyers (to help keep those throwers alive) yeah. heavens for me i think
however i have a sneaky feeling heavens is my favourite overall. comet (which isnt remains in play!!!) and chain lightning are both fantastic. i like the push spell for upsetting peoples plans, and the two re-roll spells are situational but useful plus a s6 magic missile. and on top of that extra damage to flyers (to help keep those throwers alive) yeah. heavens for me i think
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
I haven't playtested them yet. But I feel that of the two lores, Life would be better - it has damage, buffs and what is more important - ressurection/heal. Imagine the impact of resurection on our cavalry, chariots, dragons, etc..
I also think that High magic, death and metal will be strong choices. Too sad that you have to preset your lore choice and not be able to change it depending on your opponent..
I also think that High magic, death and metal will be strong choices. Too sad that you have to preset your lore choice and not be able to change it depending on your opponent..
Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Teclis can choose either or at the start of the battle
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
I haven't voted yet because I have only used lore of life, but I plan on using the lore of shadow. So far the lore of life has been extremely handy, t7 sword masters that pop up after dying has been brutal. Same with t7 PG.
How ever s8 spears sounds cruel. BTW have people decided that the ld for strength modifies armor saves?
edit: why can teclis choose?
How ever s8 spears sounds cruel. BTW have people decided that the ld for strength modifies armor saves?
edit: why can teclis choose?
Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Cause its still under his rules and they didn't errata it out.tiekwando2 wrote:I haven't voted yet because I have only used lore of life, but I plan on using the lore of shadow. So far the lore of life has been extremely handy, t7 sword masters that pop up after dying has been brutal. Same with t7 PG.
How ever s8 spears sounds cruel. BTW have people decided that the ld for strength modifies armor saves?
edit: why can teclis choose?
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
HERO wrote:Teclis can choose either or at the start of the battle
Ahh, Teclis
I wonder if there will be a change of 'no special characters in tournament' and subsequently at the 'i frawn upon the usage of special characters' attitude. It is without debate that if special characters become a norm, Teclis will feature in most lists, just as is Eldrad featuring in most Eldar lists..
Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
40K is SCs everywhere. The new books all have a lot of SC flavor.Marinero wrote:HERO wrote:Teclis can choose either or at the start of the battle
Ahh, Teclis
I wonder if there will be a change of 'no special characters in tournament' and subsequently at the 'i frawn upon the usage of special characters' attitude. It is without debate that if special characters become a norm, Teclis will feature in most lists, just as is Eldrad featuring in most Eldar lists..
I'm sure the SC frowning is a thing of the past.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Wow and teclis gets just a little bit better, but is it just me or are we going to be really, really dependent on him. In the games I have played we need magic to be able to do... well just about anything.HERO wrote:Cause its still under his rules and they didn't errata it out.tiekwando2 wrote:I haven't voted yet because I have only used lore of life, but I plan on using the lore of shadow. So far the lore of life has been extremely handy, t7 sword masters that pop up after dying has been brutal. Same with t7 PG.
How ever s8 spears sounds cruel. BTW have people decided that the ld for strength modifies armor saves?
edit: why can teclis choose?
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
I've used both in game and Im very much a shadow person. Life is nice but seeing as world dragon is the best way to protect your own heros against magic I wont have many chances to cast throne of vines. Life has a few good spells but they're all a bit situational, and if throne is dispelled even the ressurection spell isnt so hot.
Shadow on the other hand has sort of a bunch of spells rolled into your signature spell. Anti shooting and cc, or avoidance or helps you break a unit. Also theres the I debuff which fits in nicely with the two I kill spells. Strength or Tough debuff are also nice. The strength debuff is very similar to increasing toughness from that lore of light spell accept the strength debuff means your armor is less damaged. The 6 spell is very nice for spears and anything with alot of attacks (it works on horses of cav units too...) It DOES affect armor.
I suggest book of hoeth for now.
Shadow on the other hand has sort of a bunch of spells rolled into your signature spell. Anti shooting and cc, or avoidance or helps you break a unit. Also theres the I debuff which fits in nicely with the two I kill spells. Strength or Tough debuff are also nice. The strength debuff is very similar to increasing toughness from that lore of light spell accept the strength debuff means your armor is less damaged. The 6 spell is very nice for spears and anything with alot of attacks (it works on horses of cav units too...) It DOES affect armor.
I suggest book of hoeth for now.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Hey LA, are you sure that the 6th of Lore of Shadows affects armour? It is debatable in the way it is written now
Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
GWshop doesn't think things through when writing rules (THANK YOU AGAIN MAT WARD) so they've left it awkwardly opened - on one hand, they could've intended for people to use the leadership exactly as strength, or they could've meant that to be used against high toughness stuff but without reducing armor since your strength value is what modifies armor, not leadership..
so its a grey area until FAQd because GWShop likes to FAQ things up.
so its a grey area until FAQd because GWShop likes to FAQ things up.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Silver wrote:so its a grey area until FAQd because GWShop likes to FAQ things up.
Ahh well, knowing GW is to love GW, no?
Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Shadow is funky but suffers from afew spells that I don't like.
Life is awesome all the way, especially with Throne of Vines.
(Smoke & Mirrors compared to Lifebloom is a joke really.)
Personally I consider Shadow to be the worst (but by no means a bad) lore of the new BRB-lores, followed by Metall for it's obvious reasons then Death/Beasts.
Life, Light, Heavens and Fire is the way to go!
Life is awesome all the way, especially with Throne of Vines.
(Smoke & Mirrors compared to Lifebloom is a joke really.)
Personally I consider Shadow to be the worst (but by no means a bad) lore of the new BRB-lores, followed by Metall for it's obvious reasons then Death/Beasts.
Life, Light, Heavens and Fire is the way to go!
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
I think Life will suit us better out of the two. Then I like Heavens, then Death.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
It's really too bad it is a gray area and can be argued reasonably from both sides as written. If it doesn't affect armour saves, then casting it on anything other than core units seems useless in most cases. Take casting it on Sword Masters, for example, attacking a T4 enemy. Normal attacks from Sword Masters wound on 3s with -2 to the armour save. Mindrazored Sword Masters wound them on 2s with no penalty to the armour save because now the wounds are S3 as the spell negates weapon bonuses. An augment spell that actually makes a unit worse? In my opinion, this wasn't the intention of a spell that costs 18+ to cast.Marinero wrote:Hey LA, are you sure that the 6th of Lore of Shadows affects armour? It is debatable in the way it is written now
However, since it is a potential source of contention, I would probably bring it up before even starting the game.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Yep.. Pretty irritating, but as it is worded, there is no mention what so ever about armour saves, while it specifically says that the augmented strength is used when rolling to wound.
So I would say, roll to wound with you ltd value as strenght, then the AS modifiers of your weapon are applies for the AS.
I hope it gets FAQ-ed
Even if it modiefies the AS, it still will not be that awesome, as you need to be in combat to have its effect and even then it can be dispelled. Andwhile none of your units are in a serious combat, you are left 2-3 turns pondering if you drop the stats of enemy units that are not in CC with you, would that really make a difference and pay of for your expencive magic set up
So I would say, roll to wound with you ltd value as strenght, then the AS modifiers of your weapon are applies for the AS.
I hope it gets FAQ-ed
Even if it modiefies the AS, it still will not be that awesome, as you need to be in combat to have its effect and even then it can be dispelled. Andwhile none of your units are in a serious combat, you are left 2-3 turns pondering if you drop the stats of enemy units that are not in CC with you, would that really make a difference and pay of for your expencive magic set up
Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
It's 18+.
Some common sense here people.
Some common sense here people.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
I voted Life - a level 4 with the Seerstaff choosing Flesh to Stone, Throne of Vines and Regrowth is fantastic, with either Earth Blood or Dwellers Below as a nice bonus. With the Banner of Sorcery you'll get an average of 9 dice, sometimes more. Throw 4 or even 5 dice at Throne and you're very likely to get it off, and even if you roll a double 6, the spell effect takes place first, then the miscast effect, which means you can avoid it on a 2+.
You can also throw more dice at the other spells then, with the same 2+ chance of being unaffected by Loss of Control. It also makes it very useful when the Ring of Hotek's in play.
Oh, and I agree with HERO about the Ld / S debate. I think they simply meant that your Strength attribute becomes equal to your Leadership attribute, with all the concomitant modifiers.
You can also throw more dice at the other spells then, with the same 2+ chance of being unaffected by Loss of Control. It also makes it very useful when the Ring of Hotek's in play.
Oh, and I agree with HERO about the Ld / S debate. I think they simply meant that your Strength attribute becomes equal to your Leadership attribute, with all the concomitant modifiers.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Except the spell specifically states that weapon modifiers do not apply. Which is why is should be played that the leadership value does affect the save as it does require 18+ and is the biggest spell in the lore.Marinero wrote:So I would say, roll to wound with you ltd value as strenght, then the AS modifiers of your weapon are applies for the AS.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Hey, I would not mind if the ruling is that the Ltd value affects the AS, not at all. I am just pointing out, that as the spell is currently written, that is not the case. Common sense or not, the wording is clearBolt Thrower wrote:Except the spell specifically states that weapon modifiers do not apply. Which is why is should be played that the leadership value does affect the save as it does require 18+ and is the biggest spell in the lore.
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Re: Lore of Shadow vs. Lore of Life
Hopefully an FAQ will be out on it, until then a decision within individual gaming communities will have to do. If it doesn't reduce the save then just don't cast it on White Lions, Sword Masters, Phoenix Guard or Dragon Princes and you'll be ok.Marinero wrote:Hey, I would not mind if the ruling is that the Ltd value affects the AS, not at all. I am just pointing out, that as the spell is currently written, that is not the case. Common sense or not, the wording is clearBolt Thrower wrote:Except the spell specifically states that weapon modifiers do not apply. Which is why is should be played that the leadership value does affect the save as it does require 18+ and is the biggest spell in the lore.
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