Dragon mage list & battle report
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Author:  SpellArcher [ Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon mage list & battle report

Prince of Spires wrote:
Hehe, you never know with skaven. But I think that in this case they had too much stuff still on the table that needed dealing with. If either the dragon would have survived and / or either the doomwheel or the Abomb would have been dead then I would have given myself a decent chance. As it stood now, there was too much to deal with still. The two whole blocks of clanrats and monks were going to be a pain.

The Flamespyre had taken a lot of damage too, hadn't it?

Prince of Spires wrote:
Actually, rereading it, I think we played it wrong. Compulsory moves happen before reinforcements coming onto the table (similar to charges). So it's move "phase" had already passed by the time it got back to the table. So it would have been stuck at the table edge.

Before I looked this up, this was my understanding Rod. The argument that the Abom can't move seems to depend on the section for Reinforcements being at the end of the Remaining Moves section. But that is the last bit of the whole Movement part of the book, where else would they put it? I believe they didn't consider how Random Movement would affect this.

Prince of Spires wrote:
Thinking a bit further, if you're really strict then next turn it could only move straight forward as well. To be able to move in a different direction, it needs to pivot, which takes parts of it off the table, which is not allowed. Still, it didn't matter in the game.

This is allowed, rulebook FAQ pg 5.

Prince of Spires wrote:
This game showed that for all its strengths, the book of Hoeth is only limited protection vs bad dice rolls.

All the really strong players I've seen opine on this would always take Scroll before Book.

Prince of Spires wrote:
I'm also wondering if the list would benefit from more shooting.

I played my last event with 2 RBT. It was a reasonable compromise but I really missed the third one.

Prince of Spires wrote:
What do you guys think? Anything you would have done differently?

I think your own gameplay analysis pretty much nails things Rod.

Author:  RE.Lee [ Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon mage list & battle report

That was a good analysis. I especially second the point on Archers - they make for a formidable fighting unit against Skaven (and other mediocre troops). Three ranks fighting, ASF, hitting on 3s, re-rolls... With the fliers stopped by bad weather they could have been perhaps used more aggressively.

The BoH remains more of a promise of greatness. I think its most useful on a Loremaster, to spam those 5+ spells with impunity. The Dispel Scroll lets you stop that one big spell that is often the difference between victory and defeat. Irreplaceable probably.

Again, loved the report - I'm looking forward to more!

Author:  Prince of Spires [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon mage list & battle report

The option to use the archers more aggressively only struck me as I was writing up the report. I've used them in combat before. But only really as a last resort. And then generally against something they have no hope of beating but which needs to be held up for a turn. Against skaven they could have definitely meant something in combat. Which would perhaps have let them do more in the game then kill 7 jezzails. Already the threat of having another unit with combat potential in there could have changed things. And HE shooting depends heavily the to hit roll. T1 needing 7's to hit meant it was pointless to try and shoot anything.

Changing the BoH for a scroll wouldn't have a huge impact on the list. It frees up 30 points. First thought is to simply add 2 PG and leave it at that. Which would give:

Achmage, lvl 4, High, scroll, Talisman of endurance

BSB, barded steed, heavy armour, enchanted shield, dawnstone, sword of might
Dragon mage, lvl 2, dragon armour, charmed shield, starlance, golden crown

20 archers, musician
10 silver helms, shields, musician
5 reavers, musician
5 reavers, musician

16 Phoenix Guard, full command, razor banner
5 Shadow warriors

2 Repeater Bolt Throwers

I'm still debating if I should keep the SW in the list or not. So far scouts have never really done much for me. I'm probably using them wrong. But somehow 1 S3 attack (either combat or shooting) just always fails to impress. Dropping them would remove a redirector / distraction from the list. But it would free up 70 points that can be used elsewhere. But what would that be?

Easy answer probably is another RBT (though I would have to assemble it first, but that's not a huge issue, I have 2 lying around somewhere). This would also add the extra shooting I mentioned earlier somewhere. But, there are other options as well. For starters, it would leave me with just the PG as infantry combat unit. Which makes me a bit hesitant to consider it. I could also add in a Tiranoc chariot for some more combat threat. Or drop the two PG again and go for a skycutter. So that's one.

Another approach is to change out the PG for something else. WL seem the obvious choice. Bring about 20 or so of them. Which leaves 55 more points to be spent on other stuff (so 125 total when combined with the 70 from the SW). Which would get me a Skycutter + bolt thrower stuck on it.

What are your guys thoughts on the list? I know a DM is not the most efficient use of points. But I'd like to give him another spin in a future battle. He is an interesting choice at least.

As for more reports, you guys will have to wait. Leaving on holiday for two weeks this weekend.


Author:  RE.Lee [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon mage list & battle report

Shadow Warriors are pointless. While I like them background-wise and I love most of the models they got (my 6th ed metals, the new plastics) they are just a very weak unit - neither snipers in the Waywatcher mold nor fighters. That S3 attack is not going to do much at range and they have some trouble even dealing with war machines (at least Dwarf ones). You already have 2 unit of Reavers as chaff and solid fliers to assault back lines - I'd drop the sons of Nagarythe.

That + exchanging the Book for the Scroll leaves you with 100 points to spend. Just enough for 6 more Phoenix Guards for a respectable 20-strong unit that is going to benefit from attacking in 3 ranks for a longer period of time. They'll anvil up pretty much anything in the game, allowing you to counter charge with your big guys.

Author:  SpellArcher [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon mage list & battle report

Prince of Spires wrote:

Combat is definitely something these can do in places. The third rank fighting and reduction to 10pts really made them a serious Spears replacement. So yeah, they do Steadfast and they can beat some stuff up.

Prince of Spires wrote:
I'm still debating if I should keep the SW in the list or not.

Scouts do useful stuff. Granted, war machine hunting is difficult against a careful player, except maybe Bretonnians or such. But their deployment can pin back enemy Scouts or Vanguarders for example. They go down last so can allow an army with few drops to react to being out-deployed. Problem is, they probably need something extra to be a good choice and that something is usually Multiple Shots (2).

Prince of Spires wrote:
Easy answer probably is another RBT

Do you have the Rare % for it Rod? There's a case for dropping the Flamespire but that's a big change.

RE.Lee wrote:
Just enough for 6 more Phoenix Guards

Hard to disagree with RE here.

Prince of Spires wrote:
Leaving on holiday for two weeks this weekend.



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