Tactics vs Hippie cousins (wood elves)

All discussions related to Warhammer Fantasy Battles from 1st to 8th edition go here, including army construction, comp creation, campaign and scenarios design, etc...
Post Reply
Message
Author
Joaco
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:44 pm
Location: Uruguay

Tactics vs Hippie cousins (wood elves)

#1 Post by Joaco »

Hello there, starting this post for an exchange of ideas to play vs Woodies.
I usually go with a fast list, taking cavalry (fast and heavy) as basics units and some archers.
1 unit of white lions (with BoTWD) so they are strong against shooting (magic and not magic)
1 unit of phoenix guard, usually taking the archmage in there
In rares I take some bolt throwers, havent tried with phoenix or giant eagles (I assume they would be heavy shooted)
Maybe sisters? Chariots?
In characters I take an archmage, noble BSB and a mage (I've tried prince on griffon and he got fired to death)

As tactics I try to go fast into combat, trying to cover the white lions from the waywatchers.
And aiming the bolt throwers into the wild and hawk riders.
Usually my wood elves oponent goes with 3 units of glade guards, 1 scouts, 1 or 2 of waywatchers, wild riders, sisters and hawk riders
So really really heavy shooting. It often ends in draw, or victory/defeat for really small difference.

Im opened to suggestions and feedback, specially in wich lore of magic should I use. :)
Last edited by Joaco on Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: Tactics vs Hippies cousins (wood elves)

#2 Post by SpellArcher »

Hi Joaco

I play both armies. Your opponent is running mostly the power build it seems. Against this infantry blocks should find it really hard to get into favourable combats because he dances away and shoots stuff. The good thing is Lions and PG are fairly durable so can deny points and get your characters forwards. As you say, you have a good chance of distracting his Waywatchers with Silver Helms (better than Reavers here IMHO) etc so he can't focus fire on the Lions. They do have to watch out for Wild Riders though, unless they're a huge unit, six or seven Riders will wreck 20-strong Lions. Kill the Wild Riders first is a very sound idea.

RBT are a great pick because they outrange him, though he can counter with Scouts. Archers not bad because they are cheaper than his stuff and nearly as effective vs unarmoured elf. Not so sure about Sisters because of the 24" range. Phoenixes can be good because they are fast and tough, watch out for Poison though.

Magic Missiles are really good. High Magic has other tricks too and is great here. Heavens has excellent range. Lots of S4 hits makes Fire attractive. Light maybe.
Joaco
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:44 pm
Location: Uruguay

Re: Tactics vs Hippies cousins (wood elves)

#3 Post by Joaco »

Well, I played two battles against woodies in the last two weeks. Both ended in victory!

The first battle was a pretty tight one, before counting I thought it was a tie, but I ended winning by almost twice the point of my opponent (like 1240 to 640 Not a victory acording to the rulebook but I counted it as one :)

My list was something like this:

Archmage lvl 4 book of hoeth + talisman WS4+ (lore of life)
Mage lvl 2 DS (high elf lore)
Noble BSB
Cores
8 SH fc
2x5 Ellyrian w/bows
12 Archers
Specials
20 PG fc
18 Wl fc+world dragon
Rares
3 RBT
(I know reavers and lore of life aren't the greatest choice against wood elves, but I tried to do a generic list)
He started, In my first turn, I got a long bomb charge with the SH into his hawk , but got a single wound :( (who survived and regroup 1'' away from the edge)
Then I went straight forward with the infantry blocks and manage to charge and clean his side crowded with glade guards and waywatchers, everything else was whipped down tho. (his list was like 30ish glade guards, 8 glade riders, 7 wild riders with lord, 3 hawkriders, and like 16-20 waywatchers lvl 4 and lvl 2 mages)

Second game I went like:
Lvl archmage (lore of heavens) book of hoeth + Talisman of P
Lvl 2 mage (high elf lore) Ds

cores
10 SH fc
2x12 Archers
Special
18 Wl fc + BoTWD
15 PG fc
Rares
3xRBT
1x Frostheart

Pretty mutch killed all hes army using magic and WL (only 1 Sister and mage, and 1 hawk survived) Still, I used my Phoenix horribly, was pretty dumb, since it was the first time that used it. Pretty glad with this list, but idk if its viable as generic for tourneys since Im facing dwarves and Chaos for sure. Maybe with some changes it could work. Thanks for the tips SA and hope it works for some help.
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: Tactics vs Hippie cousins (wood elves)

#4 Post by SpellArcher »

You're welcome Joaco and well played.

I feel Heavens is a better fit for your army than Life because it covers it's relative slowness with the ability to deal damage at long range. I'm slightly surprised you managed to catch him with the Lions but playing Avoidance lists does require very careful play. You are right to pressure the Wood Elves in any case.
User avatar
Prince of Spires
Auctor Aeternitatum
Posts: 8249
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
Location: The city of Spires

Re: Tactics vs Hippie cousins (wood elves)

#5 Post by Prince of Spires »

Congrats on the wins. Those are some great results.

Which list did you like best? Both are pretty interesting and a bit a deviation (in some points at least) from the norm. :)

Which core setup did you prefer? Did you miss having some redirectors in the second list for instance?

As for the PG, would you consider adding the razor banner to them? I find that it adds a lot of punch to them, especially against medium infantry and light/medium cavalry units. Of course, finding the points for it is always an issue. Just a thought.

A phoenix is always tricky against opponents with cannons, especially if it's the only big target you put on the table. Of course, there are things you can do to mitigate the issue. Terrain can help. After all, seeing the spot on the table is not always easy. So buildings help. As do obstacles, which block the first cannonball. It's also tough enough to end up in a less favorable combat for a turn if it helps protecting against cannonballs. And, putting it in the middle of you opponents line will prevent shooting at it. After all, you can't shoot a cannon if there is a chance you'll hit one of your own units. And 20'' then covers a lot of ground.

Rod
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.
Joaco
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:44 pm
Location: Uruguay

Re: Tactics vs Hippie cousins (wood elves)

#6 Post by Joaco »

SpellArcher wrote: I'm slightly surprised you managed to catch him with the Lions but playing Avoidance lists does require very careful play. You are right to pressure the Wood Elves in any case.
He got surrounded with the WL, PG and Phoenix. With two units regrouped (1 fled as a reaction of a phoenix flank charge, and the other one broke when that unit went through them) he couldnt move them, so I got the oportunity, while my mage did some slaughter with his magic when I wasnt able to charge.
Prince of Spires wrote:Congrats on the wins. Those are some great results.

Which list did you like best? Both are pretty interesting and a bit a deviation (in some points at least) from the norm. :)

Which core setup did you prefer? Did you miss having some redirectors in the second list for instance?
Its hard to tell, I liked the second list more against wood elves, but I would probably miss the redirectors vs other races! ( you dont need a lot of redirectors against wood elves) I think the first list is more solid generally. But I'm thinking on making a mix of both lists, with the cores of the first one and the rest of the second one (using phoenix). About the standard, yes I thought about that, but that would mean less miniatures, or 1 less RBT and I`m not sure about that.

Haven't read a lot of 9th age becouse of time and work, but ther are no big changes right? Only thing I saw is that now people are going to use swordmasters instead of WL right?
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: Tactics vs Hippie cousins (wood elves)

#7 Post by SpellArcher »

The speed of the Phoenix is really good vs WE's, if he can avoid being shot down.

I've listed the changes in 9th Age that struck me here:

http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=28945
Joaco
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:44 pm
Location: Uruguay

Re: Tactics vs Hippie cousins (wood elves)

#8 Post by Joaco »

Wow nice summary of changes! Thanks a lot for taking the work to do it.
I'm really looking forward on 9th age, haven't tried it yet, although kind of disappointed with the high magic :(
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: Tactics vs Hippie cousins (wood elves)

#9 Post by SpellArcher »

You're welcome Joaco.

Far from perfect but those points are worth a look I feel.
Post Reply