WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

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Giladis
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#61 Post by Giladis »

Though I haven't commented on your work I just want you to know that I give you my full support, if it means anything. I say the more ways to play the game the better. There was a reason why there were all those different army compositions through 6th, 7th and 8th edition, tastes of local groups differn. I would be horrified if people would try to streamline it into a single way of playing. After all one of the fundamental rules of Warhammer throughout editions was house ruling.


Cheers and keep up the good work.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#62 Post by Furion »

Thank you and everyone else for the support, it really means a lot to me.

New armybook + big update coming on Monday / Tuesday.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#63 Post by Furion »

Big update coming your way tomorrow.

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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#64 Post by Prince of Spires »

Furion wrote:Big update coming your way tomorrow.
I think traditionally this is the time for wild speculations and wishlisting, as well as any leaks... ;)

Thanks for the effort Furion. Looking forward to see how it plays.

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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#65 Post by Galharen »

I hope ETC community decides to use it during the ETC 2016, seems solid to me.
And it makes the new rules ''official''.

I hope also that you won't forget about TK :)
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#66 Post by Dashie »

From the Danish community there are a group of people, including but not limited to El Rey (who by the way has his own 9th age project in competition with Furions), who are in the process of a large badmouthing campaign aimed at Furion.
Examples:
-Everything Furion has done in regard to ECT has failed, and actually been a catastrophe every single time
-9th age talked with Furion, but Furion is ignorant, stubborn and only want it his way, no compromise whatsoever, so some kind of cooperation is impossible due to Furions behaviour
-Furion is biased towards High Elves. It is suggested that he only have this project to gain an advantage
-Furion is doing it one-man, since he has very bad relations with his Polish teammates (hence: They did not like him was the reason Furion was not present last year)
-Furions behaviour on any projects in the past has been horrible (TWF, ETC projects)

Is there any truth to any of this?
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#67 Post by HERO »

Dashie wrote:From the Danish community there are a group of people, including but not limited to El Rey (who by the way has his own 9th age project in competition with Furions), who are in the process of a large badmouthing campaign aimed at Furion.
Examples:
-Everything Furion has done in regard to ECT has failed, and actually been a catastrophe every single time
-9th age talked with Furion, but Furion is ignorant, stubborn and only want it his way, no compromise whatsoever, so some kind of cooperation is impossible due to Furions behaviour
-Furion is biased towards High Elves. It is suggested that he only have this project to gain an advantage
-Furion is doing it one-man, since he has very bad relations with his Polish teammates (hence: They did not like him was the reason Furion was not present last year)
-Furions behaviour on any projects in the past has been horrible (TWF, ETC projects)

Is there any truth to any of this?
Bad mouth campaign? What is this? High school?
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#68 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

HERO wrote: Bad mouth campaign? What is this? High school?
I made the mistake of reading the ETC forums a bit a few years ago. But yes High School is a pretty good description.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#69 Post by SpellArcher »

Dashie wrote:-Furion is biased towards High Elves. It is suggested that he only have this project to gain an advantage
This is hilarious.

The survival of the entire game is in question and Furion is only trying to score HE points, really?

I think not.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#70 Post by Prince of Spires »

HERO wrote: Bad mouth campaign? What is this? High school?
It's worse. It's the internet...

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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#71 Post by Makiwara »

SpellArcher wrote:
Dashie wrote:-Furion is biased towards High Elves. It is suggested that he only have this project to gain an advantage
This is hilarious.

The survival of the entire game is in question and Furion is only trying to score HE points, really?

I think not.
And this is how Empires fall, the barbarians are at the gates and the politicians are still trying to one up each other.

Great work Danish ETC people, really, great work.

:roll:
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#72 Post by Furion »

Is there any truth to any of this?
To the points mentioned or two badmouthing? I don't know, badmounthing sounds plausible. Would be very easy to do too.

Dashie wrote:From the Danish community there are a group of people, including but not limited to El Rey (who by the way has his own 9th age project in competition with Furions), who are in the process of a large badmouthing campaign aimed at Furion.
Examples:
1 -Everything Furion has done in regard to ECT has failed, and actually been a catastrophe every single time
2 -9th age talked with Furion, but Furion is ignorant, stubborn and only want it his way, no compromise whatsoever, so some kind of cooperation is impossible due to Furions behaviour
3 -Furion is biased towards High Elves. It is suggested that he only have this project to gain an advantage
4 -Furion is doing it one-man, since he has very bad relations with his Polish teammates (hence: They did not like him was the reason Furion was not present last year)
5 -Furions behaviour on any projects in the past has been horrible (TWF, ETC projects)
1. That would include:
- Scoring system
- Maps used multiple times
- chairmen promises delivered (stream)
- quickest comp pack ever
- tidying etc forums

That's only to name a few.

2. There have been talks, there are logs of those chats. If it comes to that, I will defend my good name.

3. :roll:

4. Every single Polish team member is involved in this project.
I was at my brother's wedding at the time of ETC.

5. I don't know what that even means. What projects?

cheers
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#73 Post by waitjustadarnminute »

Makiwara wrote:
SpellArcher wrote:
Dashie wrote:-Furion is biased towards High Elves. It is suggested that he only have this project to gain an advantage
This is hilarious.

The survival of the entire game is in question and Furion is only trying to score HE points, really?

I think not.
And this is how Empires fall, the barbarians are at the gates and the politicians are still trying to one up each other.

Great work Danish ETC people, really, great work.

:roll:
Seriously guys. I know I'm just as new as the guy who started all of this and I don't mean to be rude, but really?

A new user posts a bunch of assertions that seem almost designed to rile people up (and which, rather conveniently, aren't verifiable due to language issues), people get predictably riled up and the "Danish ETC people" (which is a rather nebulous group, by the way) are the ones who act like highschool kids?
Again, I honestly don't mean to be rude, but don't you think you might be the ones playing into an attempt to create highschool-type drama, here?

I'm not saying there's nothing to this. Yes, some people are less than enthusiastic about Furion's work (personally, I don't really care one way or the other, since I'm not a tournament player and I'm fine with the rules my current group is using), but perhaps this is one of those instances where a bit of restraint might be called for?

Edit:
Just to be perfectly clear: what "Dashie" is talking about are some posts from a thread on a Danish forum (not just Danish ETC people) and the picture painted here is vastly exaggerated. In no way do the posts in question constitute anything even resembling a "large badmouthing campaign" to a reasonable reader.
We're talking about a thread discussing Furion's work and people are voicing different opinions, some of which are enthusiastic, others less so.
Last edited by waitjustadarnminute on Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#74 Post by Giladis »

*Lore hat on

Just in case I will be keeping an eye on this topic I don't want this to turn into something inapropriate.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#75 Post by SpellArcher »

waitjustadarnminute wrote: the ones
I was commenting on a daft attributed assertion, not on individuals. It is a ridiculous idea that Furion might be putting all this work in just to give HE's a leg-up.

Makiwara may know more than me, I don't know.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#76 Post by Makiwara »

SpellArcher wrote:Makiwara may know more than me, I don't know.
I know nothing, I've seen snide comments on different message boards; I was only responding to the comment of the Danish community, I misspoke by saying Danish ETC guys, I lumped them together accidentally, the comment was directed not at a particular person, but rather at anyone taking time to try and bring down people actually actively contributing to creating a playable Fantasy rule set for the community.

It's one thing to make a reasonable critique of a ruleset to achieve a positive outcome, another thing altogether to bring something down for no other reason than your own agenda or amusement. This should be a time when the community comes together and supports anyone willing to put the kind of work in that Furion or the 9th Age guys are doing and it's absurd to see otherwise.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#77 Post by waitjustadarnminute »

Exactly. That's why I think listening to a first post from an unknown user, which looks specifically designed to rile people up, seems counterproductive to me.

My point isn't that you guys are reacting unreasonably to the assertions, assuming they were true. My point is that the assertions themselves are ridiculous and is an attempt at creating a ruckus.

Incidentally, the assertion that people are saying that Furion is doing this because he is a high elf player seem to be entirely fabricated, even more so than the others. One or two people in the thread in question think that HE spearmen are too cheap in Furion's version, but noone is even remotely hinting that he's doing it in order to give HE an unfair advantage.

Again, the point is that this is at best a problem created by a well-meaning poster blowing things out of proportion. At worst (and, I must confess, I find this somewhat more likely) it is a deliberate trolling attempt.

The thread that spawned these assertions consists of 35 posts about Furion's project (up untill the point where this thread gets mentioned, then it predictably derails to being about how lame it is, to try and stir up trouble like this). Opinions seem evenly divided between people who like Furion's work, people who are skeptical and people who are undecided or indifferent. Even the people who aren't positive about the project seem to be very much of the "live and let live" approach.
It's emphatically not some sort of orchestrated campaign against Furion or his work. To say so is so huge a misinterpretation that I can't help but suspect that it's deliberate.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#78 Post by Furion »

The update has arrived! Features include:
  • Rulebook!
  • Daemons of Chaos armybook!
  • Armybuilder 2.2c data file!
  • lots of clarifications& balance fixes
All the details are in 1st post.

A quick sum-up of changes and what is going on in this project:
https://youtu.be/XvmfhP5AxgY
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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#79 Post by Furion »

I want to re-do HE armybook into same format as I did Rulebook.

I am looking for someone to do a small but high quality .png art for front cover (1 picture) HE themed.

Can anyone support me by pointing to relevant person? Preferably WFB passionate who would pick the job for smaller fee than usual.

Thank you, cheers
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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#80 Post by Giladis »

I can't find one of my topics that asked for the same thing a few years back and several members anwserd. I think the best bet would be to go to deviant art type in High Elves or something of that sort and see if you like any of the artists and then ask them if they are willing to do a commision for free in return for advertising that will be done by your army book.
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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#81 Post by Eirik »

Hi Furion, a few things.

You should add a link to this project in your signature.

Moranion's Wayshard specifies model on foot only, but does not specify that the character may not join cavalry units. Is the intent to allow a character to give cavalry the ambusher rule (although the character will remain on foot)?

Do you think adding most of our cool items from previous editions is a good idea? Magic diced based items (arcane banner, annulian crystal) were intentionally removed in 8e books and adding them back in seems to make the magic phase giant again, which seems counterproductive with your attempts to tone it down. Adding back in Vambraces and cheap Armor of Caledor seems to emphasize the already strong 1+/1+/4++ Prince builds rather than helping to shore up the weaker ones.

If I spot typos, should I post here or PM you?
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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#82 Post by Galdor »

Hi Furion

My friend is a professional fantasy illustrator (has illustrated a number of books e.g Conan) and a big warhammer fan (albeit a dwarf player :shock: ). He told me might be interested. Here is his website:

http://www.cuthbo.co.uk
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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#83 Post by Furion »

Thanks Eirik, I've clarified that.

Thanks Galdor, I've contacted the man. He is obviously a professional.

Update will come in 8pm CET.

Spoiler:
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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#84 Post by SpellArcher »

waitjustadarnminute wrote:My point is that the assertions themselves are ridiculous
From past reading of the ETC forums, similar charges (and worse) have been levelled against Furion by certain members. This is why Dashie's post seemed at least plausible.
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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#85 Post by Ielthan »

Can the mods maybe remove all the high school nonsense from this thread, it's an important project and irritating to have to scroll through to search for the relevant comments.

I'm trying 9th age tomorrow with a friend, I was initially excited by the first things they released but it increasingly looks like they've sucked a lot of the fun out of the game in the name of balance, while doing basically nothing to make the rubbish stuff (like 60-80% of most books) useable. I'm now more in favour of Furion's approach of fixing the internal balance of the books, e.g. I love that he made spearmen somewhat relevant. Also massively increases the variety of lists you can run prolonging the life of the game. I think I had tried basically every possible combination of competitive list of dark elves, high elves and the 3 end times lists; this opens up way more options.

I'm eagerly waiting for a skaven book (my friend plays skaven) so we can give it a good try, is there any news on when we can expect to see that release?
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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#86 Post by Prince of Spires »

Ielthan wrote:Can the mods maybe remove all the high school nonsense from this thread, it's an important project and irritating to have to scroll through to search for the relevant comments.
No.

Or rather, we can but we're not going to. The high school nonsense is as much part of the thread as the serious stuff.

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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#87 Post by ArhangelusM »

Ielthan wrote:Can the mods maybe remove all the high school nonsense from this thread, it's an important project and irritating to have to scroll through to search for the relevant comments.

I'm trying 9th age tomorrow with a friend, I was initially excited by the first things they released but it increasingly looks like they've sucked a lot of the fun out of the game in the name of balance, while doing basically nothing to make the rubbish stuff (like 60-80% of most books) useable. I'm now more in favour of Furion's approach of fixing the internal balance of the books, e.g. I love that he made spearmen somewhat relevant. Also massively increases the variety of lists you can run prolonging the life of the game. I think I had tried basically every possible combination of competitive list of dark elves, high elves and the 3 end times lists; this opens up way more options.

I'm eagerly waiting for a skaven book (my friend plays skaven) so we can give it a good try, is there any news on when we can expect to see that release?
I must say I disagree with you. They have done a lot to make things not previously usable be usable by changing how they function from the core rules up.
Foe example, spears gained killing blow, which changed in its core mechanics as well, namely it is no armor save vs everything and vs infantry, warbeasts and cavalry it's D3 W as well.

As for the individual army books, they are next up after they release the core rulebook. Since a lot of things in game and rules changes and balance shifts, it would be unprofessional to make the armybooks first and then change the rules, making the rulebooks obsolete the moment the rulebook comes out.

A bit of patience is required, as time will tell all... :mrgreen:
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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#88 Post by Galharen »

Prince of Spires wrote:
Ielthan wrote:Can the mods maybe remove all the high school nonsense from this thread, it's an important project and irritating to have to scroll through to search for the relevant comments.
No.

Or rather, we can but we're not going to. The high school nonsense is as much part of the thread as the serious stuff.

Rod
Seriously? #-o

I think the Furion 's version of rules and Army Books are pretty amazing as they create a lot of new possibilities, introducing our new-old models, like lion chariot or spears/lotherns. Also for painters is a huge step forward, many new conversions and ideas can be made.

Btw, have you seen Bretonnian Army Book already? So sick, so good. =D>
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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#89 Post by Prince of Spires »

Galharen wrote: Seriously? #-o
Yes.

Posts in general need to get offensive or very off topic for us to start moderating them. The posts here were neither. They were a sidestep of the topic being discussed, namely other peoples reactions to Furions rules. That makes them normal input in the discussion. We're not going to censor that.

Also, actually editing out these kinds of posts and parts of posts in general only makes a topic less readable, not more. And a certain amount of off-topic chatter is an important part of human interaction and defining the community.

Of course, if we do feel things get out of hand and too off topic we'll be certain to let everyone know and we'll edit when appropriate.

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Re: WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

#90 Post by Furion »

No need to censor anything. I haven't done anything wrong. I just did a lot of "stuff" for ETC. This obviously brings along the nay-sayers. It's normal, I suppose.


---------------------------

Sneak peak of cover art - what do you think?
First draft.
A HE on the shore of Ulthuan, with great dragon over the ocean.

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