2400pts for a Tournament

[thommo21]

Hi Peeps, Ive been the hobby for around 3 months, seem to have had some luck with 1500 point battles and the local GW store is running a 2400pt tournament later this month. i was hoping for some feed back on my list. If units are written in italic means i dont own them yet and are possible to change

Lords
Teclis

Heroes
Caradryan on Ashtari

Noble- BSB, Armour of Silvered Steel, Luck Stone, Additional Hand Weapon

Core
5 Reavers- Bows and Spears
5 Reavers- Bows and Spears
11 Silver Helms- FC shields
21 Sea Guard- FC shields

Special
20 Swords Masters- FC, Banner of the World Dragon

Rare
4 Bolt Throwers
(own 1)

Total Points 2396

I like taking teclis with the SM and BOTWD and picking 8 spells. But i was thinking with this kind of set up putting him in with the Sea Guard and taking High Magic, and getting the attribute as my ward save, and deploying near the table edge and have armies come at me.

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[Prince of Spires]

moved to army list forum

[SpellArcher]

Interesting concept.

Teclis on High looks weaker than picking spells but he's still Teclis. At +6 to cast he should be getting one or two spells through each turn and if he needs a better Ward you can use the Staff and one-die everything. The first problem is that High is fairly short-ranged, so he needs to advance a little. Obviously you have to watch for him being charged but also the LSG are not strong in combat, especially as High lacks buffs to help them.

This makes the Swordmasters a more obvious bunker because if you have a decent Ward up big T has a good chance of surviving and they have a good chance of winning combats. World Dragon is also important because it helps him not get sniped and nerfs magical combat attacks. I would put the BSB in the unit too, to help both and swap Luckstone (he will benefit from unit Ward) for Ironcurse Icon to give Shield of Saphery a headstart. You'll also start on 6+ with the Swordmasters' Ward vs most BS shooting of course.

Other than that, I suggest splitting the Helms in two to give you more flexible support. You'll need to be a bit cagey vs most enemies and keep a close eye on what can and can't charge Teclis while using your shooting and magic. Some stuff can be intercepted by Caradryan.

[thommo21]

Thanks for the reply,
So if im putting teclis in with swordmasters ( i normally do at 1500pts with BOTWD) i guess ill be picking my 8 spells and not high magic

[SpellArcher]

Picking spells gives you more ranged threat and you can keep Teclis back which is safer. But it would be a shame, High Magic is an interesting idea here.

[Ladril Caledor]

All things considered, I think an Archmage is a better choice for High magic than Teclis, for the following reasons:

1# To make best use of Shield of Saphery, your High user should be in a main combat unit
2# Combat is the last place you want Teclis to be
3# You can make the Archmage a lot more survivable in combat by including things like Fencers Blades and Golden Crown or a small ward save to boost with Shield of Saphery ward. Teclis is very easy to kill even with Shield of Saphery
4# I feel the best thing to do with High magic is multiple low cost spells with one or two dice each. This works much better with the Book of Hoeth than with Teclis.
(see Loriel's Lore of High Magic article in the Tactics Forum for much more detail on these points : http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=68738)

I think the only way it would be competitive is to have Teclis sitting in a block of Sisters of Avelorn. It keeps him out of combat and makes the Sisters tougher to kill (and potentially deadly accurate with Hand of Glory and highly mobile with Walk Between Worlds). Not sure it would be as effective as running him with the eight lores, but it could be pretty good.

[SpellArcher]

Thanks for the link Ladril Caledor. I've just read Loriel's article, some very interesting ideas! I would say that while he makes many important points re High Magic generally, the article is more about the specific way he uses it, which is not the only way.

If running an Archmage I agree it makes sense to put him in a combat unit and attack. Because as you say he has access to defensive gear added to which Shield of Saphery makes him combat-worthy. Book of Hoeth is more problematic. I believe a scroll is necessary. This means spending another 110+ points on a Mage. Of course his spells will be useful (especially if we spend more points on a second level or Fury Ring). But any spell he casts will not add to Shield of Saphery on the AM's unit. Book lets you 1-die spells and is brilliant in case you roll snake eyes on a 2-dice. But that 1 in 9 chance of Breaking Concentration on a 1-died spell is too risky early-mid phase IMHO. Only near the end would I chance my arm on it. Archmage plus Mage likely cost as much as Teclis. Teclis with his +6 will cast most of the spells (even some boosted) very reliably on two dice. Even at +5, multiple 2-diced spells put the opponent under pressure.

Teclis is a game-changer. Once he is in the list becomes more about helping him function than the needs of other units. Usually he is fielded in a block of White Lions. These are more resistant to shooting than Core or Sisters and are Stubborn, so for example can go three wide if necessary to push Teclis to the second rank. Thommo has Swordmasters but Shield of Saphery protects vs shooting. One option is a Sea Helm BSB with Merwyrm Shield and Crown of Command to mimic the Lions. It could also be excellent to Reform Teclis out of contact with a Vamp Lord and in with a Ghoul for example if things go wrong. Both Lions and Swordmasters have the killing power to ensure the bunker doesn't get pinned by light-medium threat units.

The Teclis Lions will not be rushed into contact, nor should the Swordmasters be. At times of course (Daemons) this will be an option. But usually they'll want to sit at 24" for Unforging, Tempest or Convocation. With all eight spells Teclis has plenty of options. The list backs this up with plenty of shooting and only then one or two combat options. I don't know how well it would work. But tricks like the destroy scroll and the Staff give it some traction.