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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:19 am 
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Loriel wrote:

it seems that you @Francis my dear sir are right by the numbers. Well 1 Proc on 0 Procs with saphery is about equal. I was almost absolutely sure that 2 procs saphery + fencers would be better than 1 proc with ToP.



I kinda wish I weren't though. As it stands, I would have liked to put the fencers blade on my mage (who looks the part), and move the 4++ to my Loremaster who is currently stuck with the 5++ (I run a strict named characters and fixed magic items policy).

Do you think the fencers blade and a 5++ is an option? That would mean that the BoH would be left out and I guess that takes away to much reliability, which I think is crucial for the high magic caster.

I am probably also a bit biased by the fact that I rarely take the anointed in my lists, even if he/she works wonders with this kind of strategy.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:45 am 
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Francis wrote:
Loriel wrote:

it seems that you @Francis my dear sir are right by the numbers. Well 1 Proc on 0 Procs with saphery is about equal. I was almost absolutely sure that 2 procs saphery + fencers would be better than 1 proc with ToP.



I kinda wish I weren't though. As it stands, I would have liked to put the fencers blade on my mage (who looks the part), and move the 4++ to my Loremaster who is currently stuck with the 5++ (I run a strict named characters and fixed magic items policy).

Do you think the fencers blade and a 5++ is an option? That would mean that the BoH would be left out and I guess that takes away to much reliability, which I think is crucial for the high magic caster.

I am probably also a bit biased by the fact that I rarely take the anointed in my lists, even if he/she works wonders with this kind of strategy.


I think Book of Hoeth is too valuable for this tactic. It will give you the needed reliability in low winds of magic and it will generally increase the casting value, making you much better passing multiple spells. With Alarielle as support character fencer's blade will become more valuable.

In a way there is one psychological trick however. Especially if you are facing ws 4 or less elite fighters like temple guards, grave guards etc. having the hit chance reduced to 5+ seems rather harsh and might lead to situation where your opponent will not strike the mage with R&F att all. Secondly it might cause your opponent to "overkill" the mage as players might invest more attacks to kill him which would lead situation where his combat resolution will go to waste.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:54 am 
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Hi, Loriel.

I also run High Magic as my army's primary lore of magic.
However, just like many of your battle reports show, high magic does encourage putting 2 or more characters in the 'bunker'. Better if that bunker has innate ward save, like dragon princes and phoenix guard.

You might be aware of this well, but this inevitably leads to great vulnerability to spells ignoring saves.
Dwellers Below and Final Transmuations are examples.
How would you run your high magic-centered list against armies utilising these lores?
Do you split your characters in multiple units? That is my usual solution.

For example, I usually play 3K games with my friends. Most of the time I put my Prince, Nobe BSB and High archmage into 11-man strong dragon prince unit.
Should I face no-saves spells, I split my characters between two units - 11 DPs forementioned, and 16 Silver Helms in the core. It does reduce the risk of putting all the eggs in a basket, but also diminishes the main adavantage using High Magic - increasing mediocre ward save of combat characters.

So, whereas my Prince could easily sport 3+ ward save inside DP deathstar with high archmage, when I split my characters he would rely on only 5+ ward save. In conclusion, I always felt the new book was encouraging players a combination that is too easy to break due to this high vulnerability to certain type of spells.
Should players just accept this reality and face the 6th no-save spells feeling helpless, or is there a better way to mitigate this?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:58 am 
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Sinsigel wrote:
You might be aware of this well, but this inevitably leads to great vulnerability to spells ignoring saves.
Dwellers Below and Final Transmuations are examples.
How would you run your high magic-centered list against armies utilising these lores?
Do you split your characters in multiple units? That is my usual solution.


this is naturally big (or biggest) weakness of the unit. I have three usually way how to deal with this strategy.

My main aim is not to split unit but to be even more aggressive to get in CC (and try to aim attrition battles). Mainly that if you charge and destroy your opponent he will still be able to so my opponent would have fewer opportunities to cast the spells and focus my dispelling to these high end spells. To be honest, in this perspective I should prolly ran scroll caddies.

Second "counter" to these high end spells is to keep the main combat unit as small as possible. With the extra ward they can win fights against many other threats and usually don't need the extra bodies as much. This makes the resources opponent had spent to get the (and cast) the ultimate spell having less reward and secondly leaves rest of the army to be more effective.

Accept the fact that nothing is invulnerable and try my best. Most of the times still this unit will be so big head ache your opponent. We all know how fickle magic can be and if you or your opponent solely trust one spell to rule them all that strategy will backfire many times. Think about really how many times actually the game was truly changed due excellent cast of dwellers / purple suns / final transmutation and think about how many times they haven't work. My experience gives about 1/3 - 1/4 chance having the ultimate spells to really *REALLY* work so that the game ended to defeat (or victory depending on perspective) because of the high end spell.

Sinsigel wrote:
So, whereas my Prince could easily sport 3+ ward save inside DP deathstar with high archmage, when I split my characters he would rely on only 5+ ward save. In conclusion, I always felt the new book was encouraging players a combination that is too easy to break due to this high vulnerability to certain type of spells.


I don't normally use close combat characters in my list. In dragon princes I think they will need the extra bunch to get something done after charge. As I usually use white lions having some extra high str attacks really doesn't give as much to the unit ;)

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 10:20 pm 
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Really great tactica with lots of insights.
Excellent work mate, thank you.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:18 pm 
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I've read this five times and it's changed the way I play Warhammer. This is a great article and it should definitely be in the Tactics Articles forum rather than buried down here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:21 pm 
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thanks ladril. I am glad when some of my pointers helped you! My grand idea of finishing this article has being buried ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:34 am 
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It's not finished? What more do you want to add?

EDIT: I see, 'terrain and deployment' is missing. I'd be really interested to read that. I think it is crucial to place the units in the right way and plan ahead in how you are going to use Walk Between Worlds to set up an advantageous situation.


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