Loriel's Guide to High Magic

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Loriel
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Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#1 Post by Loriel »

Index Introduction

This guide is written in March 2015 and I follow following ruleset.
  • Warhammer 8th
  • FAQ/ERRATA V1.9
  • Warhammer: High Elves 8th (without official FAQ)
  • No Khaine magic or other End Times stuff
I have wanted to write down a many guides across wide subject of Warhammer, but the reason why I chose High Magic is that I haven’t really saw anybody else done it.

I am strong supporter of the Lore of High Magic. It has being for me by far the most used lore in the 8th and according to many of my foes the strategy what I use with High Magic is extremely effective and some have even declared that they refuse to fight against it.

General idea is to have strong close combat unit that will become extremely hard to remove due increased ward save. One of the strongest counter arguments what people have against using High Magic as ward boosting lore is that if you are engaging in close combat with your precious mages in front lines. I will address to these concerns during this guide and give few tricks how to give your mage best possible way to survive.

This guide is done mostly in 2400 point game perspective and in short when game size decreases performance and benefit of High Magic goes smaller and in bigger games the effect that it has only in one unit isn’t usually enough to have so many points invested in this. So perhaps 2000-3000 points is optimal game size for this strategy.

Battlereports
I will try to update as ofter links to actual battlereports where High Magic is used as main lore for level 4.

Loriels battles with High Magic + Shield of Saphery:
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE088/BR.html -> White Lion / Annointed
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE087/BR.html -> Dragon Princes
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE086/BR.html -> Sisters / Alarielle
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE085/BR.html -> White Lion / Annointed
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE084/BR.html -> White Lion / Annointed
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE083/BR.html -> White Lion / Annointed
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE080/BR.html -> Dragon Princes
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE078/BR.html -> White Lion / Annointed
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE076/BR.html -> White Lion / Annointed
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE073/BR.html -> White Lion / Annointed
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE072/BR.html -> White Lion / Annointed
http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE071/BR.html -> White Lion / Annointed

Other players
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=68310 @Deamon


Other Resources
I have browsed through tactic forum for other threads about High Magic. I glimpsed the tactic forum topic names and added them here

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=50963 - Why the hate for High Magic?
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=53514 - Archmage w/ High Magic on Eagle
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=62230 - High Magic - Is it over rated?
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=62783 - New High Magic - Your views?
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=67279 - Life magic vs High Magic

(page 10)

Change Log
I will try to update this thread as much as possible and here is a small change log


7.4.2015
- Added mathhammering stuff to protecting mage section
27.3.2015
- Included other resources.
- Added new example round for low magic phases
26.3.2015
- Made a Change log
- added example rounds and couple extra arguments to The Lore of High Magic
Last edited by Loriel on Fri May 01, 2015 9:22 pm, edited 18 times in total.
High Elves since Aug 2010: Tot /W / L / D - 100 / 75 / 23 / 2
Tomb Kings since Sep 2013:Tot / W / L / D - 31 / 18 / 12 / 1

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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#2 Post by Loriel »

Rules
Some rules and mechanics are good to understand before we go venturing deeper into high magic. I personally think it is good to understand mechanic of the lore more widely, even though some of these rules doesn’t directly affect the strategy guide here, it will affect the game when used High Magic. Some rules are fairly easy to judge, some are little bit harder.This guide is not meant to be rule discussion and I will make it with the rules that I have played in my local gaming club. If some of these rulings seems wrong, then adjust the guides details accordingly to your own interpret..

Shield of Saphery
If model have conditional ward save such as parry, ironcurse icon or deflect shots, will the Shield of saphery improve only the conditional save?
  • By strict RAW you wouldn’t get any regular ward in this situation. In our local gaming club we play it so that in any case shield of saphery gives 6+ ward and increases every existing ward. This is same line in most big tournaments (ETC faq 2015, US Masters FAQ 2014) In our gaming club players though that it would be really stupid to think that there is this magical protection given to the unit, but it wouldn’t protect them if they are somehow warded against war machines. This is extremely important rule to agree before games. Depending on ruling it can totally waste the potential of this guide and it requires more careful army list design
Does drain magic remove Shield of Saphery effects (or other similar lore attribute effects)?
  • In our local gaming club we have concluded that it doesn’t remove any lore attribute effects as they are not spells as per se. This ruling have fundamental effect on this strategy so you should agree with your own gaming club / tournament organizer how this should be played. The ETC Faq 2015 implies it would indeed remove effect.
If model/item that gives a ward (for example Anointed of Asuryan, Ironcurse icon etc) is removed what happends to the units ward
  • By RAW only the ward given by model / item will be increased and thus it would mean that the ward would go away instantly when the providing model / item is lost. But if you play the Shield of Saphery with idea that it will always give 6+ ward and increase all existing wards. This would be the ruling of most tournaments and with that way you will be left with the ward save provided solely from shield of saphery.
Can I cast a spell that has no effect? For example drain magic without anything to drain?
  • There is no rule that forces spells to have any effect as far as they have legal target. Generally
How does magic resistance work with shield of saphery?
  • Magic resistance is added to existing ward. For example 3+ ward (boosted by shield of saphery) will turn into 2+ ward against spell damage if model has magic resistance.
What happens to the ward save bonus if the mage leaves the unit (for example due smoke and mirrors) or is destroyed?
  • Since the lore attribute effect states that Wizard and his unit gains, it implies that the unit still have the ability and it will not go to the new unit when wizard is moved, however the wizard in question will get the ward bonus, but the another wizard coming through the smoke and mirrors doesn’t. If wizard dies (for example due miscast or some antimage special items / rules) the unit keeps the bonus until start of next magic phase.
Other spells and effects

Can Book of Hoeth be used to reroll bound spell item rolls?
  • Some RAW hammerers might argue that this is possible and I do get most of those arguments, but in our gaming club and the way I have mostly seeing people play it it isn’t allowed. Minor detail, but could be used to boost this tactic.
Does Lileath Blessing stack?
  • Some rule layers pointed out that with clever reading this would actually stack for each mage and other players high magic casters (lizards and wood elves) would also get this bonus. In our gaming club and pretty much every tournament doesn’t consider it to stack. Should it still stack in some gaming groups, this has some effect to the strategy as it would courage of having extra casters around.
Drain Magic
Does drain magic remove permanent spell effect such as Plague of Rust and Skaven Wither?
  • Most tournaments have ruled this no. Permanent effects will stay and this is the way most people play it. Not biggie for this guide, but good to know.
Does drain magic remove vortexes?
  • By RAW no as it will only target units withing the bubble. I personally find this odd that it wouldn't remove vortex also, but given that Lizardmen and Wood elves gained the same spell and no faq perhaps GW intended it that way.
Arcane unforging
  • Does Arcane Unforging destroy magical Standards and Battle Standards mundane effects (+1 to combat resolution and reroll for BSB)?
  • It is generally considered that Arcane Unforging only destroys the magical effect of the banner, but the mundane effect stays. For example ETC Faq 2015 ruled it that way.
Does Arcane Unforging need to wound in order to destroy item?
[*]The way the spell is written implies that they are two separate effects.[/list]

Walk Between Worlds
Can models with Fly special rule use fly movement with Walk Between Worlds (in other words can they move over impassable terrain and enemy units?
  • Most tournaments allows this and it is ruled in ETC FAQ 2015.
Can units reform, enter buildings or can characters move out of unit with Walk Between Worlds?
  • Most tournaments seems to allow entering to buildings, but reforming isn’t as clear. I personally view that reforming isn’t allowed with this spell, but entering the building is. Moving a character out of the unit seems legit interpretation of rules
Can a Flamespyre Phoenix use Wake of Fire when he is targeted by Walk Between Worlds?
  • Most tournaments allow this to be used as do our local gaming club.
Can Walk Between Worlds be casted on units that are fleeing, failed charge or rallied? [/list]
  • Yes the spell can be casted (in terms of having shield of saphery proc), but this depends on the interpretation does the walk between world generate some "different" remaining sub move phase or does any conditions that affects units apply still during the turn. I personally play that it can move units (similarly as dance macabre or desert winds). For example ETC FAQ 2015 states it cannot.
Is unit considered moved for the purpose of shooting and some effect such as fulminating cage, when it moves with Walk between worlds? [/list]
  • Yes.
Last edited by Loriel on Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tomb Kings since Sep 2013:Tot / W / L / D - 31 / 18 / 12 / 1

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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#3 Post by Loriel »

Army list design
First thing to do naturally is to think about what kind of army you are supposed to play. Many people have said that High Magic is lore that you need to have your army build upon. I will analyze first pretty much every choice we have and how they would work with the High Magic heavy list.

Index for this section
  • Main and Support Characters
  • Main Combat Unit
  • Support Units
  • Making the list
Main and Support Characters

Game size might needed to be adjusted depending are you playing with vanilla 25% lord / hero allowances or with FAQ/Errata v.1.9 50% allowance.

Casters:

Archmage - Yes
This little fellow is the workhorse of this strategy. I would say that in every single list that wants to use High Magic as ward save boost you should have Level 4 archmage with Book of Hoeth (even alongside some other caster). This archmage is going to venture deep in to enemy lines so he will be needing protection. People might consider that having ward save is good choice here and it certainly is, but I would dare to say that Fencer’s Blade is by far most effective combination with high magic. Remember that when played right the Archmage is going to get ward save due the lore attribute. You still have enough points to add golden crown to the extra protection for the mage. Naturally if you go on horses barding is ofc advisable to take.

Build for Archmage (310 points)
  • Level 4 Lore of High Magic
  • Book of Hoeth
  • Fencer’s Blade
Optional:
  • Golden Crown of Atrazar (I usually give this to my BSB)
  • Ironcurse icon
  • Talisman of Endurance (or preservation for pretty much guaranteed 3+ ward every turn)
There is also one other build (what I would never consider) but if the Archmage would be fielded with Star Dragon you could make the dragon more powerful with the mage and like before giving fencers blade / talisman of endurance / ironcurse icon to mage, book of hoeth could be. But as said I would never do it, but it might work atleast to some extent.


Mage - Maybe
Support mages are commonly seeing in many list if nothing else then as scroll caddies. I don’t use support mages too often and mainly due the fact that I am usually trying to keep character points to the minimum. Mages can be used in few different ways.

Support with totally different lore such as Shadow for miasma, searing pain from lore of metal etc. They also works as fail safe system for broken concentration.

Use as High magic to increase the chance of Archmage getting augments. Usually needs to be upgraded to level 2 for this role. With High Magic it is great that if you happen to roll two augments for the support mage then you can still choose two signatures with it. Depending how you guys rule the drain magic and lore attributes, it is possible to have low level caster as fail safe for your combat unit and drain magic can work wonders as you are guaranteed to have it. This works pretty much the same way as using Light council and trying to get Banishment for the Level 4.

Lower level mage can be used to generate more dices for low winds of magic phase with Forbidden Rod (only if using Banner of the World Dragon) and power stones.

Loremaster - No
Allthough great character Loremaster doesn’t directly benefit this strategy and loremaster is pretty much the one who demands the book of hoeth for himself. I am not saying this wouldn’t be good help as it really would give lot of extra tricks to be used, but in High Magic heavy list you don’t probably have the points to have him around.

Dragon mage - No
Simple no.

Alarielle - Yes
My original High Magic bunker was based on Alarielles build. Shieldstone of Isha + Banner of the World Dragon + High Magic is really awesome. Star of Avelorn is excellent item to keep your mages alive and Stave of Avelorn gives reliability to the list. Still even Alarielle has crucial flaw and that is low winds of magic phase. One neat detail about Alarielle is that she has build in WS 6 and LD 10 so she makes good general. This means that most of the enemies that she is going to see will be hitting her on 4+. Also never forget immunity for fears and terrors, so you don’t end up losing the battle for some god awful terror test. One thing what you should always try to use as mind game trick is that she has Heroic Killing Blow against forces of destruction and just mention this to your opponent and taunting him. Mathematically not very reliable with only 1 attack, but sometimes it is enough to get the job done.

If you go in Alarielle road I would still suggest adding level 4 with High Magic and Book of Hoeth to the same unit. I would give Alarielle single spell from high magic (for little bit failsafe) and then make a decision between lores of Life and Light. I would probably go for lore of Light. However with vanilla lord allowance rules you need to ramp up game size to according to fit. But with 50% no problem.

Teclis - No
I haven’t personally tried this up. With loremaster ability and really neat scroll to almost guarantee for one turn that you would get 3+ ward save when needed and +6 modifier is really sweet! Reason why I haven’t went for Teclis road is that he is fairly expensive character for this tactic and his abilities doesn’t directly improve this strategy. Compared to Allarielles 5+ ward and immunes to fear and terror. Thirdly Teclis is and will be weak in CC and much harder to protect because he cannot be equipted with protective gear. Finaly since he doesn’t have build in Book of Hoeth that is almost essential here. If Teclis would have build in BoH I would use him more often.

Eltharion the Grim - Maybe
He doesn’t directly contribute to High Magic list, but he is fairly decent CC character with 2 support spells from the 8 brb lores. Incase if you insist having a support mage (not a scroll caddy though) Eltharion might be good choice for little extra cost he can give much more punch to the list.

Support Character
Well now lets see other character choices to be used with High Magic

Anointed of Asuryan - Yes
Anointed is pretty much build for this strategy. His Blessing of Asuryan ( 6+ ward for his unit) and Witness to Destiny (4+ ward) works really well. Incase you are not using banner of the world dragon the build in Magic Resistance (2) will give you more than enough protection from regular spells. And never forget that he causes fear so make your opponent do the tests. He is bound to fail every once and a while. And never forget that Anointed gives immune to psychology to the actual unit, so guarantees that you will not panic or flee in terror. As his defences are really good all ready you probably are best of giving him more killing power in from of Giant Blade or Sword of Bloodshed. This choice is probably dependable of the opponent and what special choice you are taking for your ward bunker. Perhaps with White Lions you could go for bloodshed for more attacks if you are facing numerous enemies and with swordmasters giant blade or whatever. Even butt naked Anointed is great so bring it on. Adding something like enchanted shield, glittering scales, crown of command, featherfoe torc, armor of caledor / silvered steel or something like that. Depending on the enemy pretty much. You can also make him wield Fury ring to get another insurance to get more ward while advancing to enemy positions. Naturally if you run with Alarielle Anointed doesn’t give much more for the list.

Noble - Yes
Battle standard bearer is pretty much mandatory. I usually go for maximum defence and something like Dragon Armor, Shield of Merwyrm + Crown of attrazar are good items to go for. I usually add fury ring for him. On mounted army naturally mundane armors to maximum and barded steed.

Sea Helm - No
I used Sea Helm in my early games when 8th game. One of the reason was attraction to new cool Naval Discipline. There were times when Sea Helm really earned the points and it actually isn’t too bad choice as you can use his ability to “bluff” opponent to take “easy” flank charge. It could work, but rather big investment when you could just place those points somewhere else.

Handmaiden - Maybe
In totally different list what I would play on bigger unit of Shield of Saphered Sisters, I would always field Handmaiden for quick to fire tricks. But I don’t

Prince & Tyrion & Alith Anar & Korhil & Caradryan - No
Eventhough most of them are good at fighting and can increase damage output of the unit II would suggest leaving these choices home in this strategy as they tend to cost too much and with the guide I am writing you are most likely not going to need the extra punch as much as you are going to need elven bodies.

Main Combat unit
Now from this category you are going to make the choice what is going to be the main unit to be augmented by High Magic. Basicly the unit where you will place the workhorse Archmage with Book of Hoeth. We could deploy wizards on units of Spearmen, Archers, Seaguard, Silver Helms, Ellyrian Reavers, White Lions, Swordmasters, Shadow Warriors, Phoenix Guard, Dragon Princes and Sisters of Avelorn. Obviously some are better choices than others, but there is also difference in performance depending on game style. Ideally the main unit will be strong hitting that can tackle most threats in the game. Secondly having a access to at least 50 point unit banner important too.

Core: - No
As we all know we have to add core to this list. I wouldn’t never consider making our core unit enchanted with Shield of Saphery. Reason is simple that High magic would turn that core choice into High End Anvil, without enough punch to actually destroy your enemies. Secondly core units have weaker statline and cost less. High Magic allows you to save wounds so with higher costed elites the “saves” are worth more than in core.

Incase you still would like to try this out on core choice I would personally think that spearmen benefits the most from it at then Silver Helms. Due my aggressive playstyle shooting couldn’t work for me as I tend to march forward as fast as possible, but in away gunline unit it could be used as extra protection against enemy shooting and finally when those weakened warriors manages to get in close combat it would turn the archers / seaguards to sturdy anvil.

White Lions - Yes
These are by far my chosen ones. They have all the ingredients to work with this strategy and they are (imo) low priced choice compared to many other choices across other armies also. I would always use Banner of the World Dragon with them. They will become really strong unit that will be hard to remove with regular magic or shooting. Having 3+ armor save against mundane shooting and 5+ armor and 2+ ward against magical attacks they are not likely to die before you get in close combat. Also str 4 makes them survive The Dwellers Below better than normal elves does. With stubborn they can hold if you are outmaneuvered by bad flank charges and strength 6 is something that can tackle most of the units any other armies can field.

Swordmasters of Hoeth - Yes
I love (or perhaps loved) swordmasters during 7th and they were my choice due speed of asuryan. Swordmasters have three advantages compared to White Lions. First Extra attack will help tons when you are flank / rear charged to nullify the negative effect in combat resolution. Secondly swordmasters ws6 is rather rarely seen and it means that they will be hitting most of times on a 3+. Thirdly they are far better choice against big cheap ranked units. Like skavens, Goblins, Zombies, Skeletons, men at arms, halberdiers etc, for obvious reason that usually those cheap units are T3 and with low armor save so the extra str doesn’t help much. They have however one really really important feature that needs to be agreed before the game that how does Deflect Shots and Shield of Saphery work? I all ready addressed this problem in the rules section, but if your opponent / tournament / local gaming club rules that only the conditional save will increase Swordmasters will automatically drop out as a choice.

Shadow Warriors - No
I have tempted to try Shadow Warriors as regular mage bunker. They would have good advantage over our normal archer / phoenix guard bunkers that they can evade much more easily and you could use the units movement to your advantage when casting spells. Real problem here is that Lore of High Magic actual spells doesn’t tend to have great impact on game and only to increases this “elite” bunkers ward seems little useless. Thus I would cross this over.

Phoenix Guard - Maybe
Phoenix Guard are imo the best infantry choice in 8th edition when you consider point cost of 300-400 and with all cornering perspective Fear, ld 9, I6, halberd, 3 rank hitting, 4+ build in ward for only 15 points each... Just wonderful. One would easily think that ok, this is the best choice as I only need to cast one High Magic spell and buff who unit is 3+ ward. Well this is true, but deploying 300 point archmage with Book of Hoeth in it, would pretty much guarantee the +1 ward here, but it wouldn’t have much more impact on the game. Secondly Phoenix Guard doesn’t have much punching power with str 4. Thus regular lvl 2 support High Mage might be more Phoenix Guard material. I will say that Phoenix Guard isn’t the main unit for Shield of Saphery.

Dragon Princes of Caledor - Yes
I haven’t used Dragon Princes much, but seems that many other High Elven players prefers them. I also have tried them with my latest games (games 80. and 81.) and they worked like a charm. They have very ideal properties to make this tactic work. 2+ Armor save is good, it protects really well from small str attacks. Build in 6+ ward means that you don’t have to get that many succesful cast to have good ward save. There is no way of adding mounted model that would give regular ward save (Alarielle and Anointed) thus Silver Helms doesn’t work for this role as well. Also Never forget 2+ ward against flaming attacks. With extra attacks and steeds all though in str 3 (unless you charged) increases ability to push more strikes in flanks and rear. If you go bigger unit it will have huge footprint and wheeling it around can be rather hard to achieve. On the other hand this unit would become one of the toughest Anvils to beat for your opponents when combined with Shield of Saphery. Especially against skavens dreaded 13th cavalry is immune.

Sisters of Avelorn - Maybe
Shooting doesn’t fit my play style, but I have toyed with idea having biggish unit (about 30 bodies) with Hand Maiden (for quick to fire), BSB with Banner of The World Dragon, Allarielle for support and Archmage for shield of saphering. Hand of Glory with extra BS would turn this unit really powerful and they could lay waste from distance and survive against magical and shooting attacks, and in combat they would be more anvils due ward save than hitters. I would also place smaller units of swordmasters / white lions for flanking purposes. I will probably test this out some day, I also am little disappointed that they don’t have ability to have full command. Unit of sisters would be ideal to carry Banner of Avelorn. WIthout Musician swift reforms are not option and with only 5 movement you cannot wheel bigger unit enough to make it. Smaller units of 5 with 2 wide formation have no problem turning around with movement of 5. Perhaps it could work, but in this guide I will not address this idea more.

Support units
I will not go them one by one, because that is not the point. 2 to 3 small units of Reavers / Eagles / shadow warriors are pretty much mandatory to redirect and stall opponent. Small unit of silverhelm to tackle opponent chaff. If you took the best infantry choices for this tactic (White Lion or Swordmasters) You should have Phoenix Guard advancing and protecting the flank of the main unit. Other flank should be protected by spearmen or silver helms, or another Phoenix guard unit. If you go with Dragon Princes I would probably add Silver Helms to their companion. Frost Phoenix is really good choice for us in any list (not just here) but especially our Great Weapon elites like it. Archers / Bolt Throwers / Sisters are good to clear chaffs. You don’t usually have to tender the opponent strongest unit with shooting as the main unit augmented with High Magic ward can tackle it,

Making the list

The design will have four aspects and main roles how to build your army especially regarding using the High Magic.
  • Main Combat units
  • Main character
  • Support character
  • Support units
First thing to decide is to choose the Main Combat unit and start to build rest of the list around it.

Main Combat unit
I have identified 3 choices for this role. White Lions, Swordmasters and Dragon Princes. (Perhaps Sisters of Averlorn for whole another strategy)

Regardless what you choose you should always buy Full Command for them and add Banner of The World Dragon in to the unit. Now Unit size is really important factor. People might think that ok, I am investing huge ammount of points in characters to support one unit so that unit has to be really big to be worth it. I say immediately out loud that this is WRONG. Sorry for caps, but plain and simple resist the urge to push the total point cost of the unit over 1 / 5 ( in 2400 it would be 480 points) of total points of the army and probably keep something like 600 - 800 points maximum number of points spend in this unit. There is three main reason for this:

Firstly this unit can be avoided by enemy chaff and it doesn’t matter do you have 40 - 50 infantry or 25+ cavalry or 25 infantry or 15 cavalry with such character support your opponent will try to chaff it up. Spending less resources here means his chaffs doesn’t deny as much points and it allows you to have more points on other side.

Secondly Final Transmutation will kill 1 / 3 of the units models as Dwellers will kill 1 / 2 if you use Swordies or Dragon Princes and 1 / 3 with Lions. Against Dreaded thirteen increased body count however would be better and dragon princes are immune that effect.

Thridly when this strategy works right you don’t need more models to eliminate your opponent forces. From experimenting units of 25 - 30 I think 27 has being ideal number.I have so far tried once Dragon Princes (game 80.) so I don’t have much experience what would be good size for the unit, but perhaps 15?.

Main Character
Basicly there is thee option Archmage, Alarielle or Teclis for foot Main Combat unit and for mounted there isn’t any other choice than Archmage. I say that in 9/10 times Archmage should be used as the main character. Perhaps only exception is lower point games where Alarielle would be more cost effective. Archmage is also good pic due the fact that many tournaments and gaming clubs ban the use of special characters.

Main Character will always be deployed in the Main Combat unit. If possible don’t make the Main Character your general as it will be even more reason for your opponent to kill him due extra 100 victory points.

Book of Hoeth and Fencers Blade are great items to have with Archmage. With good support character buying separate ward save isn’t as effective as Fencer’s Blade.

Support Characters

Main Combat unit Support Character
There is two options for High Magic support characters for the main combat unit. Alarielle and Anointed. As with main character in lower point game Alarielle will be good choice as she will act as both. Anointed on the other hand is pretty much the Main Combat units support character and should always be made as General if possible. Annointed doesn’t need much magical items to be efective in this strategy, but giving him defense, strength or attacks can work wonders. If your main combat unit is Swordmasters then you can give Anointed Crown of Command for extra surviability.

Battle Standard Bearer
BSB is pretty much mandatory. However BSB shouldn’t be deployed inside the Main Combat unit. Two reasons. Main Combat unit doesn’t need the extra input BSB will have but they only need the reroll to LD tests. Secondly placing a juicy 200 - 300 victory point character inside a unit filled with characters will be making it much more potent target for any mass killing spells (Final Transmutation , Dwellers Below , Dreaded Thirteen). I usually field a Phoenix Guard unit in flank guard duty and BSB is very good in that unit as the actual unit will benefit from BSB more than the Main Combat unit would.

My BSB build is pretty staple Dragon Armor, Shield of Merwyrm, Fury Ring and Crown of Attrazar. During the early turns casting the bound spell will increase the whole units ward to 3+ (well 5+ for Noble against magic / shooting) and 3+ in close combat. If you would like to have the second level 2 High Mage around in that unit then You could probably go for Great Weapon build and some Ward from endurance or preservation / armor of destiny.

Mounted BSB gets better protection.

Support mages
Choices are normal mage, Alarielle (when you have Archmage as high magic) use Alarielle for Light or Life, Eltharion and Loremasters. I don’t use them but they can be fielded. If you go for High magic with them then placing them inside the Main Combat unit for fail safe ward boost.

Support Units
There are numerous support units that will have vastly different roles and I think each (or perhaps most) of the roles should be assigned. Some roles are overlapping and may change during the game. In design table you should always have clear idea why you made some choice and what do you expect to

Flank Protectors 1-2 slots to fill
Flank charges are really bad for any units and our Main Combat unit is no different. In a game less than 2000 I would say that only 1 unit is needed for this duty. In a game between 2000 - 3000 I suggest of fielding Elite Flank Protector and Cheap Flank Protector. In bigger games I would field two Elite Flank Protectors. How the flank protector will work is either as bigger ranked military unit that can hold against a charge, stubborn small unit that can take one charge and hold or as redirecting chaff that tries to deny enemy flankers.

Cheap Flank Protectors are 30 model strong Spearmen, Small unit of Silver Helms, Reavers. Due my playing style shooting units (with exception of shadow warriors or bowreavers) cannot perform this duty cannot perform this duty as my main combat block is going to march forward pretty aggressively. But in more defensive playstyle unit of archers can work as this also.

Elite Flank Protectors are White Lions, Phoenix Guards or Dragon Princes. (or bigger unit of Swordmasters).

I tend to use Phoenix Guard as my first Flank Protector. I have grown fond of using 22 models Full Command and Razor Banner with the BSB. I don’t remember a game where they couldn’t fulfil their duty. When the BSB is off you should always try to keep the Main Combat unit within range of the BSB, but sometimes this isn’t possible.

As a second flank protector (or also chaff clearer / hammer ) I use Silver Helm dart. The dart cannot take reliably charge inside as it will break easily, but it can be used as more offensive and proactive flank protector.

I haven’t tried with my usual High Magic build White Lion Cubes as flank protectors (mainly due the fact that I don’t own that many White Lions, but with 130 points they could do wonders in 3 wide formation and also increase good amount of combat resolution with flank charge.

Chaff clearers 1-2 slot fills
In less than 2000 point game one dedicated chaff clearer is good. Allthough I tend to use the Silver Helms as flank protector and chaff clearer it fills half both duties.

For purpose of this strategy this role means clearing chaff that can harm the Main Combat unit. In other words priority 1 is to destroy targets that could redirect the main combat unit. Chaff clearers themselves are expandable so focus on supporting the main combat block and accept the loss of clearers if needed.

Archers, Reavers, Silver Helms, Dragon Princes, Bolt Throwers, Chariots, phoenixes, sisters of Avelorn and Shadow Warriors are excellent chaff clearers. Shadow Warriors will get an extra medal for being able to deny opponents vanguards. Naturally this depend lot of the armies you are playing against, but in general try to focus shooting to clear units in front of the Main Combat block and Close combat clearers to flanks. Reason here is that you don’t want to risk having your own unit chaffing you up. Worst case scenario they will flee in panic in the middle board right in front of the Main Combat unit and deny their action.

Combat Hammers 0-1 slots to fill
Combat Hammers are unit choices that can generate more combat resolution to the fight than they give. Units like Silver Helms, Dragon Princes, Swordmasters, White Lions, Chariots and phoenixes are such. This role is actually more dedicated for the Elite Flank Protector than to actual Main Combat unit as it will have most likely positive combat resolution ratio. Especially Phoenix Guards would like having a chariot / Swordmaster / Silver Helms etc taking care of them. Hammer doesn’t need to be big unit and usually is much better to be as small as possible. Having small unit of silver helms making flank charge when Phoenix guard is tanking can turn the battle tide easily around.

Chaff 1 - 3 slots to fill
I would say that almost in any High Elven army regardless of the size of the game one unit of reavers / eagle should be fielded. I tend to use 2 dedicated chaffs (nowadays I have turned to use spear reavers as I tend to just sacrifice them in early turns) I could make another similar guide about Chaff usages, but in short they are needed. When you are deploying your chaff try to figure out specific task that you want to perform with them. For example.This unit will be used to redirect that unit, this unit will be used to hunt those war machines, this unit will just go harash behind enemy lines to invoke march tests etc. In this list chaff should have priority to aid Main Combat units performance with any means necessary and secondly aid others. One important thing is that sometimes any unit can change to chaff, so don’t hesitate to use even little bigger Silver Helm unit or phoenix when it is needed.

Secondary Mage Bunker 0 slots to fill
I only mention this because many Tomb King players uses this kind of role to give their precious Hierophant little more chance of surviving the battle. This would be viable if you use lore of shadows smoke and mirrors tactic. Secondary bunker would be most likely archer units in the middle right behind the Main Combat unit. Second situation where this could be used is when the Main Combat unit is out of battle and would be in danger of being destroyed in following turn. Pretty much any unit can fulfil this duty if needed, but to have one dedicated isn’t probably worth it.

Summary
So quick summary how to build the list and what kind of roles you intend for them to have. But never stick with the original role just because you thought it during design phase. Always change the unit purpose when needed.

Lords
  • Main character (Archmage Book of Hoeth + Fencers Blade), Alarielle or Teclis, 300 - 400 points
  • Support Character for Main combat unit (Annointed with offensive wargear or Alarielle) 250 - 350 points.
Heroes
  • BSB with defensive build, deployed inside unit that protects the Flank of Main Combat unit. about 150-180 points
  • Lesser mages for possible scroll caddies or utility spells. No more than 1 / 10 of the armys total points.
Core , try to keep core tax in minimum
  • Chaff, 1 - 3 units (basicly reavers with bows or spears, but I advice against both). Use about 1 / 10 of the armys point as chaff.
  • Cheap Flank Protector 1 unit (spearmen or Silver Helms) about 200 - 300 points.
  • Chaff clearers, 0 - 2 units. (archers or silver helms) 1 / 10 of armys points as chaff clearers
Special
  • Main Combat Unit ( White Lions, Swordmasters or Dragon Princes) unit point cost maximum is 1 / 5 of the total points in the list
  • Elite Flank Protector ( Phoenix Guards, White lions) About 300-400 points
For any remaining points, add combat hammers / chaff clearers.

Example list 2400 point.

Lords
Anointed of Asuryan, Giant Blade Enchanted shield, Luckstone General - 280 points
Archmage, Level 4, High Magic, Book of Hoeth, Fencer’s Blade - 310

Heroes
Noble, BSB, Dragon Armor, Fury Ring, Shield of Merwyrm, Golden Crown of Atrazar - 155
Core
15 x Archers - 150 points [Chaff clearers]
5 x Ellyrian reavers with bows - 85 points [Chaff]
5 x Ellyrian reavers with bows - 85 points [Chaff]
12 x Silver Helms, shield musician - 286 points [Flank Protector / Combat Hammer]

Special
20 x Phoenix guard, Full Command, Razor banner - 375 points [Elite Flank Protector]
27 x White Lions, Full Comman, Banner of the World Dragon - 431 [Main Combat Unit]

Rare
Frosthearth Phoenix - 240 [Chaff Clearer / Combat Hammer]
Last edited by Loriel on Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#4 Post by Loriel »

The Lore of High Magic
I will analyze the lore’s spells, generating priorities and casting priorities in this section.

Index for this section
  • Spells in High Magic
  • Spell generation
  • Casting priorities
  • Example Rounds
Spells in High Magic
I will analyze from the perspective how it would work with Shield of Saphery and with the Main Character. First a quick overview on the lore
  • Every spell can trigger lore attribute
  • We have access to two signatures
  • There are four augments, three direct damage and one magic missile.
  • Level 4 caster can one dice 5 spells with 3+ roll. With Book of Hoeth 8/9 times you can use one dice to cast the spell. I suggest looking at Book of Hoeth Statistics guide.
Drain Magic Yes
Drain Magic has unique effect that only Lizardmen and Wood Elves has access to. We can get rid of Hexes (and augments) as well with any Remains in Play debuffs. In my experience the actual effect of Drain Magic will seldom make a difference in game, but it can really be game breaking in some cases. If drain magic is ruled that it will remove lore attributes effect then it will be ALWAYS the first spell to cast.

Psychological tricks:
If you really want to get rid of some hexes & rip one way to mind game your opponent is to say out loud when the spell is cast well I can drain it next turn. Then cast apotheosis / hand of glory to give some boost to your unit, then be like. Awww I forgot the bloody hexes and though, well … I have no other choice but to use drain and lose the just given Hand of Glory. Depending on situation I would dare to say that many opponent would hesitate to dispel drain magic as they think it will also harm you more. More importantly it makes you get ward saves past with better percentage. Remember that in most cases your Main Combat unit when either side doesn’t have any magical buffs (other than shield of saphery ofc) are usually better.

Soul Quench Maybe
Soul Quench is good spell in general. Easy to cast and does decent damage. Little bit too short range. Reason why I have placed maybe is due the fact it is magic missile and thus cannot be casted when the wizard is in close combat. Nevertheless Soul Quench can be used to clear chaff right in front of Main Combat unit. Fury ring and possible second mage might be given this spell. I would suggest leaving this off from the Main Character if possible as it will greatly hinder your ability to take advantage of the maximum Ward save.

Apotheosis Yes
This spell is one of the winner spells for this tactics due the fact that it can save you tons of points on average. Eventhough it doesn’t sound much regaining one wound for Frostie or your precious characters can change the battle outcomes. Secondly this is spell that even level 1 wizard could one dice on 3+ roll.

Psychological tricks:
When you cast this spell in situation where no one is going to be healed laugh at it and make gestures how the fear will turn the battle tide off, but naturally tell him that it will heal models, but at this moment it doesn’t have any effect. Tell your opponent that this is so poor spell but it will only increase the ward. Then when you need the extra healing remind your opponent that this is the super spell to get fear on!

Hand of Glory Yes
My favorite spell in the whole game is Shadows Miasma. This spell have similar elements, not as great as Miasma is, but in a different way. This will have good synergy for the list either give better chance for shooting chaff clearers to do their work, increase the movement one of the units or increase initiative if you need it in order to strike first with great weapon or deny opponents rerolls from ASF. One important thing to realize is that even though casting value of 10 is fairly easy to have with 2 PD and Book of Hoeth in many cases doing the upgraded version doesn’t affect game any more than normal would.

Psychological tricks:
Promote this spell to your opponent as your spell of choice with saying things like ok this spell actually has effects on the game unlike Drain Magic and Apotheosis. Promote the fact that your Main Combat block might be fast as cavalry or your archer block will shoot like characters.

Walk Between Worlds Yes
This spell is one of the best spells in this lore and this is spell that can turn tides of battle. Eventhough this is augment you cannot cast it to unit that is in close combat, so you need to have target that is out of combat in order to use this. Luckily it has 24 inch range so perhaps you get legal target for it. If you don’t then you might end up in situation where you cannot cast this and in this tactic that is bad thing.

I tend to use this spell to get my Main Combat block just forward closer to enemy lines. It is also great spell to be used to clear fanatics & manglers. Funnily enough in our gaming club Walk Between Worlds is usually heavily dispelled.

Tempest No
Not to get too detailed, but on your Main Character this spell should be turned into a signature. For the support mage it might be wise to leave so your Main Character has better chance of getting the right spells.

Arcane Unforging Maybe
This spell is really good to solve some problems. There is actually one “bad” outcome with this spell that if you destroy magical weapon from character your main combat unit will have decreased ward. For this tactic two reasons makes this spell inferior. 1) it has to be casted in front arc against target that isn’t in combat. Basicly using this when you are in close combat is rather hard. Secondly this spell cannot be one diced and 2 dicing is too unreliable. For Main Character this spell should be turned into a signature.

Fiery Convocation No
This is one nice spell indeed. Such a high casting remains in play that pretty much forces your opponent to make hard decision either to get more damage or try to stop it and pretty much surrender the next magic phase. This spell is contradicting Ward save tactic with two ways. First it will use so many dices to cast. Secondly being Remains in play it is likely that you cannot use Drain Magic in subsequental turn. Thirdly the target that you would lay waste with this spell (bigger horde of some nasties) can and will be taken care of by the Main Combat Unit. When you follow the principles of this guide you will chance this spell from your Main Character to signatures.

Psychological trick:
The fear of this spell can often lead your opponent to let past other spells and as this is almost always effective spell you should leave it to the last spell to be casted. This would work best if you have Alarielle or another support mage with this spell and still have 4 spells that could be one diced.

@Orchaldor made a good argument to support this choice. Click here to see the post

Spell Generation priorities
Spell generation is process that should need some extra focus. So When you roll the generation dices depending on your army composition there is spells that you will like to have. I have valued them by experience from about 20 games. I have to say that Apotheosis might still be better choice to be the first one compared to Hand of Glory. This priority is very simple and naturally there might be situations where something should be valued more. For example you see that your opponent has pretty much only hexes and RIPs at his disposal then increase drain magic priority and etc, or against elves Hand of Glory becomes more important to give extra I to deny ASF and get great weapon dudes hitting first and when fighting similar WS Hand of Glory will be better.

In general you should ALWAYS try atleast 3 augments for your main character.

Main character priority
  • 1. Hand of Glory
  • 2. Apotheosis
  • 3. Walk Between Worlds
  • 4. Drain Magic
  • 5. Soul Quench (Increase priority if there is tons of small chaff in enemy ranks)
  • 6. Arcane Unforging -> Signature
  • 7. Fiery Convocation -> Almost Always Signature
  • 8. Tempest -> Always Signature

Casting Priorities
One of the most important factor in this strategy is to deal any spells main purpose to increase ward save and secondary purpose to be the actual effectt. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t naturally aim for maximum performance. On ideal setup your Main Character will have 4 spells that can be casted even when the wizard if in combat and he can 1 dice them all with 8/9 probability.

Here is again the link to Book of Hoeth Statistics that is absolutely useful read for any High Elven player that would use Book of Hoeth, not just for high magic.


General principles how to cast spells from High Magic
  • Don’t be afraid of one dicing. Your opponent doesn’t want to try one dicing dispel when he usually have +4 modifier against your 5 and risk of breaking concentration is 1 / 3 compared to your 1 / 9..
  • Don’t cast upgraded versions, unless you really need to have extra boost. Walk Between World and Soul Quench upgrades should only be used in High winds of magic phase.
  • In general use max 2 power dice per spell
  • When you are not in combat with your Main Combat Unit:
    • Identify spells worth by deciding what is least effective and most effective spell used
    • Identify threat level for you main combat unit from shooting attacks or incoming charges. (magical attacks are well protected due banner and against some dwellers etc, you wouldn’t get ward anyway).
    • Start you casting from least effective and work your way towards the most effective spell.
    • If threat level is low one dice your least effective spells just to taunt your opponent. Then use more dices on effective spells
    • if threat level is medium or high, start casting from least effective spells with 2 pd and one dice the most effective ones
    • Rather try cast multiple spells than one spell and stick with the plan
    • Avoid miscast,( try not to use more than 2 PD) and never reroll dice if you allready have a 6.
    • When there is no chance of not enough power nor failed cast and you don’t have roll of 6, always reroll 1, 2 and 3, since you have higher chance of having better casting value if you do..
  • When you are in significant combat with your Main Combat Unit:
    • Identify spells worth by deciding what is least effective and most effective spell to be used
    • Start with least effective spell, but don’t risk one dicing the first couple spells.
    • Sometimes Miscast can chance the course of battle. Miscast will most likely hurt much more your enemy than you when the unit has Banner of the World dragon. But never “sacrifice” your mage for something that can be dealt without miscast. This is more of last resort type of thing. Especially if your Main Character has 1 wound left using Miscast approach is rather good as he has good chance dying anyway.
Those were few core principles to follow.

In general least effective spell is Drain Magic (nothing to remove) or Apotheosis only to give fear. Hand of Glory is usually always effective if nothing else for movement boost for some unit. Walk Between Worlds and Soul Quench tend to be spells that your opponent will likely dispel. I actually prefer of advertizing the most effective spell by saying something “stupid” during his movement phase that ok, good I have walk between world to get past that etc. This is mind gaming. Saying it during your own casting isn’t as effective as saying it long before.

Winds of Magic naturally effect tons what to cast and what to do. You don’t really have to think about your opponents dispel pool as much as you have to think about your own pool. One of the best things about this strategy is that most of the times when you use dice your opponent needs +1 dice to get the dispel gone. Secondly nothing beats the thrill when opponent has to burn dispel scroll on 2 diced spell that gives only weapon skill to unit. ;)

Dividing power dice pool

This is core principle how to cast spells depending on power dice count. In general if the most effective spell really doesn’t have enough effect then try not to exceed 2 PD. One reason is when you don’t waste your dices to cast ineffective spells your opponent will most likely dispel the spell on the end or is afraid of bound spells, or possible support mage.

From experience the best winds of magic from the lore of high magic perspective is 2+2 and 3+3.

Total number of power dices - First spell / Second spell / Third spell / Fourth spell
  • 02 - 1 / 1 / 0 / 0
  • 03 - 1 / 1 / 1 / 0
  • 04 - 2 / 1 / 1 / 0
  • 05 - 2 / 1 / 1 / 1
  • 06 - 2 / 2 / 1 / 1
  • 07 - 2 / 2 / 2 / 1
  • 08 - 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
  • 09 - 2 / 2 / 2 / 3
  • 10 - 2 / 2 / 3 / 3
  • 11 - 2 / 2 / 3 / 3
  • 12 - 2 / 2 / 3 / 3

    Example rounds

    Lets do little math hammering.
    Lets assume average magic where enemy has regular level 4 and you have level 4 Book of Hoeth four one dice spell and drain magic, soul quench, apotheosis and walk between world. First thing we have identified that Drain Magic is the least effective spell (since nothing to remove) then Apotheosis (since nothing to heal) then… walk between or soul quench as most effective one. Lets assume that there is some light chaff within 18 inch range and arc of the mage so perhaps Soul Quench is the most effective one.


    Average magic 4+3, no channels
    Casting order is going to be Drain Magic, Apotheosis, Walk between and finally Soul Quench.

    Now lets assume that there isn’t any real threat to the Main Combat Unit (little shooting and no impending charges next turn) nor any spells effect is significant enough to affect the game.

    You probably shouldn’t risk breaking concentration on the first spell cast. So 2 PD drain magic with 99,5 chance of success (only double 1 and reroll 1 will fail). If you follow the principle that you don’t reroll if there is 6 and reroll lowest 1,2,3 you will get approx efficiency of +1 to +2 per cast. pretty average casting sum would be something like 12 - 14. So your opponent will need native roll of 8-9 to success on dispelling. To dispel that reliable he will need to use 3 powerdice. Well when you casted literally no effective spell rather than shield of saphery he will not dispel it, especially when it is the first. He might consider dispelling if casting sum (that didn’t break concentration) will be 8 (meaning that you rolled 1+2 on your casting value). He will need with one dice 4+ to cast (and break his concentration) Unless he has thing for 50 / 50 odds he will not dispel it, but with 2 PD he might do it (especially if the other effects from other spell are no strong enough)

    Next apotheosis with Fear, and you can actually cast the fear to unit that will gain zero benefit from it to make it as worthless effect as drain magic, or try to get maximum performance to cast it against any model that might end up (or is) in close combat. Now if your main combat unit isn’t in immediate threat and having the shield of saphery proc isn’t that needed at the moment doing simple one dice with 8/9 probability. You opponent will have again choice between trying a one dice on 4+5+6+ roll or doing 2PD dispel. But will most likely not do it as he is too afraid of soul quench. Then use 2 PD to cast the soul quench and see your opponent dispelling it for 3 dice or even 4 dice (as he thinks that 1 dice is not worth keeping around). Finally depending on situation use 1 die to cast walk between world and fury ring or just 2 pd walk between and move your Main Combat Unit depending on enemy pretty much full speed ahead towards enemy lines (even invoke chance for your opponent to do flank charges with some rather minor effect) but never go outside your Flank Protector BSB. Then let your opponent decide should he try 3+ warded elite force.
    This being ofc ideal situation, but to be honest from experience I can say that playing it like this you are really likely to get 2-3 spells per turn off.

    There is also one newt psychological effect of bargaining, that your opponent is more willing to give you +1 ward from 4+ to 3+ than from 5+ to 4+. Reason is that he probably decided that ok I will not even try to get in combat with that monster and just let it go or thinking that ok it is allready bad so the improvement isn’t that much.

    Low magic phase 2+1, no channels
    Ok, now you have to really think how to proceed. If threat level is low or medium I would go for three spells 1 dicing, but with high threat I would go for 2 pd the most effective spell and 1 dice second most.

    Lets assume situation where threat level is low. When you don’t have opportunity to even theoretically cast all the spells your Main Character has then skip the most start the casting so that the last spell would be the most effective one. You start the casting from drain magic -> 8/9 successful cast and with no other effect your opponent is very unlikely to dispel it. Cast Soul Quench spell 1 PD again 8/9 chance of success and this time your opponent might end up using 2 dice spell for the hope that you fail the last one, or if he really fears it (really important walk between for example) then he might let this go just in case. Then try the last one and hope for bad dispel roll. Basicly you have 512 / 729 to cast (not breaking concentration) all the spells and your opponent will most likely dispel one (that is about 70% chance).

    In lowest magic phase 1+1 it is effectively the same as your opponent is unlikely to dispel any of the spells and you are likely to get 64 / 81 (about 79%). In 1+1 if effective spell is really needed using 2 PD to cast it for almost sure success as your opponent will have hard time dispelling with 1 PD as you have the crucial +1 and reroll for 1-2.
Last edited by Loriel on Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#5 Post by Loriel »

Terrain and Deployment

Incoming ;)
High Elves since Aug 2010: Tot /W / L / D - 100 / 75 / 23 / 2
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#6 Post by Loriel »

Protecting the Wizard
Now one of the concerns many players have about high magic is the simple fact that to benefit most of the ward save you need to place your mage in front line. This leads to the possibility that mage is slain and tons of points and the whole strategy will be crumbled to dust.

Index for this section
  • Average wounds
  • Mage placement inside unit
  • 8 Wide strategy
  • Other tricks

Average wounds
Ok lets think about numbers first. If you equipted Main Character with fencers blade that means that most core and even some armies elites will hit on on 5+ and rest will hit on 4+. Str depends, but lets assume worst and you get bounded by ws5+ and str 5+ strikes. and with usual games you have about 3+ - 6+ ward thanks to the support character. Most likely atleast 5+ but usually 4+. 1 / 2 * 5 / 6 * 1 / 2 -> 5/36 attacks will wound you. So on pretty average setting it will take about 18-20 attacks to actually kill your mage. On same scale lest assume some trash tries to kill you ws 4 or less and str 3. 1 / 3 * 1 / 2 * 1 / 2 -< 1 / 12 attack will wound you. Needs about 36 trash attacks to kill the mage. What is the real ammount of attacks most units can push towards the mage in single round? usually he can have max 3 models touching him. so it would be something like 10 attacks. Lets add some killy character (which will not be killy if he has magical attacks ;) ) Now my experience is that the mage is very unlikely die in the first round of combat and he usually receives whopping 1 wounds per round. There isn’t many characters / units that can actually kill fencers bladed character with 4+ ward on single round on average results. Due my experience mage will usually die in round 2 or very likely be dead in round 3.

Fencers blade vs. Talisman of Preservation

I was pointed out by @Francis that ToP would be better item compared to Fencers Blade. I did mathhammering on the subject
Lets think fighting against ws 5 without fencers but with ToP. lets not consider STR because it will be same for both strikes so pretty redundant.

With Talisman of Preservation, WS 5 no rerolls strike
0 Shield of Saphery = 2/3 hits * 1/2 past ward -> 1/3 * [str modifier] will wound
1 Shield of Saphery = 2/3 hits * 1/3 past ward -> 2/9 * [str modifier] will wound

With Fencers + Annointed, WS 5 no rerolls strike
0 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 5/6 past ward -> 5/12 * [str modifier] will wound
1 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 2/3 past ward -> 1/3 * [str modifier] will wound
2 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 1/2 past ward -> 1/4 * [str modifier] will wound
3 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 1/3 past ward -> 1/6 * [str modifier] will wound

1 Proc on 0 Procs with saphery is about equal. I was almost absolutely sure that 2 procs saphery + fencers would be better than 1 proc with ToP.

With Talisman of Preservation, WS 4 no rerolls strike
0 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 1/2 past ward -> 1/4 * [str modifier] will wound
1 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 1/3 past ward -> 1/6 * [str modifier] will wound

With Fencers + Annointed, WS 4 no rerolls strike
0 Shield of Saphery = 1/3 hits * 5/6 past ward -> 5/18 * [str modifier] will wound
1 Shield of Saphery = 1/3 hits * 2/3 past ward -> 2/9 * [str modifier] will wound
2 Shield of Saphery = 1/3 hits * 1/2 past ward -> 1/6 * [str modifier] will wound
3 Shield of Saphery = 1/3 hits * 1/3 past ward -> 1/9 * [str modifier] will wound

So in conclusion ToP will be better if you don't get 3 casts succesfully. Using the Crown of Atrazar + Fencers might turn the tide over (I must do another math hammer for that), making the wizard survive that crucial first round of combat.

There is also one psychological mechanic with Fencers Blade. People are not as willing to direct attacks to mage if their regular R&F are hitting it on 5+, which can effectively save the mages life. Basicly this is due the principle that people are more willing to accept risk that isn't directly affecting them (in other words doesn't modify their active rolls, but rather depends on opponent roll) Secondly as I play with hidden lists Fencers Blade will be public right in CC as my mage has ASF. ToP might be hidden and my opponent might test wether you actually equipted the mage with ward save or not.

Mage placement inside unit
Always (if possible) deploy your mage to the the corner of the Main Combat block that is more unlikely to have killy characters or really strong elite forces going on. For example if you see that there is some weak trash unit on the right side and strong unit on left side deploy the mage to the weaker side. Remember that most killy characters have magical attacks so you are actually really well protected against such models.

Swift reform (or sometimes even normal reform) is good call if you can avoid getting hammered by some killy bastard. Depending on situation sometimes placing your Annointed right next to mage can help fight against some bad asses of warhammer world. If nothing else it might spook your opponent not to make way near your mage.

After every combat always consider should you reform just to move the Mage to more safer place. Also take note that if both you and your opponent wishes to reform then you will roll who will make the reform first and who second (BRB 8th page 55.). This way you can try to get your mage out of your enemys killy characters.

8 Wide strategy
One of the most common ways to protect mage is to have full command + 2 characters and push the mage in to second rank or go even 3 wide. Pretty effective way to protect the mage. This could work well with Dragon Princes if they are your main combat unit, but unfortunately making our elite infantry to 5 wide will significantly decrease their damage output. Remember one of the main reasons to employ this strategy is to get strong hard hitting unit that will survive enemy strikes.

Against 5 wide
With our elite infantry I have used 8 wide strategy numerous times and with less that 30 models in unit that is really ideal size. Secondly with 8 wide formation you are not losing as much movement when wheeling and stuffing and your damage output is good. Here are few principle pictures when fighting against strong enemy unit that is 5 wide 20 mm base. If you are fighting againts 25 mm bases then you could go 9 wide and use the same tricks shown here.

Image

Here is example how to deploy or reform the mage before he hits the combat.

Now lets have a few possible scenarios. First charge against 5 wide. Naturally you will maximize the contact so that the wizard will be left aside.

You charge
Image
Incase he doesn’t break and subsequently get ability to reform, or just wins the combat he basicly has three options. If you opponent wants to reform you will always want to reform too because that allows you to have 50/50 chance to react the the reform.

Reform to just reach the mage
Image
Now he brings the just the killy character in base contact with reform. If you manage to go second just move the mage to the far edge to minimize the attack count towards him.

Reform to maximize attacks to mage
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He maximizes attacks that can be forced towards. Especially some really killy R&F with killing blows for example you might even consider calling a challenge with the mage to get only one killy character to fight you (naturally no if the character in question get some weird challenge boosts)

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Many times when my opponent had done the wider reform he has actually lost the battle that he might otherwise be winning.

Not reform
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Mage is safe, which is good from that perspective.

Reform blocker
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When you charge you can also use chaff to block the reform. Ideally this is your big birdie waiting to get the next turn.

Enemy Charges
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He manages to get only one model (and supports) to your mage. With good deployment / swift reforming your mage can avoid that killy character for one turn.

Incoming threat
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Lest assume some really bad thing is threathning your archmage and it is your turn close combat phase, which means that in next turn that super killy thing is coming. Then choose lesser evil and reform the mage into combat with the 5 wide.
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Against Hordes
8 Wide formation against hordes makes the wizard protecting little harder. There are couple tricks to be used what couldn’t be utilized with 5 wide formation. Against hordes the wizard placement will be much more important and the idea of trying to avoid any killers is really important.

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Chaff to clip your charges
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One trick (that is sometimes hard to pull) but is to use chaff / terrain / enemy chaff to clip your own charges. The reason why this is hard is that you have to be able to place the chaff turn before.

Multiple charges
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You can also use multiple charge to help your cause, allthough here the most important thing is to have the unit that you are chargin to be sturdy enough not to grant too many combat resolution. Using frost phoenix in this duty is pretty solid choice, as regular reagers might actually be lot worse.

Walk Between Worlds
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With 8 wide formation you can place you mage to far edge so there will be only one model clipping him and rest still receive frontal assault. This couldn’t be done in less than 8 wide as the horde would get flank charge.

Chaff trap
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Basic idea is to get some really puny chaff like weakened reavers / eagle / silverhelm etc. Ideally only 1 model strong reaver. Most important part is that it is some very small insignificant unit hopefully. Place it in front of mage so that the mage would be shielded if the opponent charges you. Another way is to place the chaff somewhere in middle ground so that your opponent can do a charge to your main unit but it wouldn’t be perfect. You will also need a flank protector to make this trap viable. Your opponent has now three choices

Ignore the chaff trap
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Your opponent can choose to ignore the chaff and just charge your Main Combat unit in hope of breaking it. Means mage is safe for at least one round. In additionally in this formation the chaff turns out to be also reform blocker.

Charges the chaff trap
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Naturally your enemy will destroy and overrun / reform from the chaff. It will be your turn and you get your flank protector or combat hammers to help. You chances of cutting the incoming unit with the help of another unit is significantly increased. Remember that most likely your mage is not going to die in one round.

Opponent doesn’t charge, perhaps move little
Badly placed chaff trap actually starts to chaff you. The reason why I suggested that it is one reaver is that you can now use it to charge the main unit as well with the Main Combat Unit. Remember that you are not forced to clip to the nearest edge with charge. That chaff can clip into that yellow character and your mage will get less attacks from the charge.

Other Tricks

Mage Challenge or accept challenges
One funny thing is that you mage can be relatively safe in challenges. This depends naturally from the opponent. Pretty much any champion (unless killing blows) cannot kill your full health archmage that has fencers blade and increased wardsave. That is just unlikely. Most champions has 2 attacks so theoretically it cannot kill you in one turn. Many hero tier characters has 3 attacks and cannot probably kill you in one turn. With Alarielle I have managed to taunt opponents with Heroic Killing Blows to take the challenge with some puny champion instead. Secondly fencer blade mage can kill some champions even before it can strike and if that happens mage will be safe for remaining turn. If your opponent then decides not to accept challenge due he wants to direct maximum amount of attacks from R&F and he has character in it you get to bounce characters off. Naturally you should so notice if he has only wizard character in unit and you make challenge and bounce the wizard to backlines it is negative effective as usually replacing R&F will be better in CC. However if the wizard is general or is giving the unit better LD than it had then it will be worth doing.

Challenges in general
Usual challenge tricks against lone monster ridden heroes applies here. Using champion to deny such monster is bad.

Healing
I said before that I think Apohteosis has turned out to be most valuable spell in this lore. From my experience it has numerous times be crucial to heal either my wizard or phoenix. Other sources of healing to be used would be Alarielle or Lore of Life. I actually pondered couple times about the healing potion and would it be better investment than Fencers Blade.

Smoke and Mirror
You can protect your mage by having another wizard using lore of shadows. This applies also to the Support Character if he is really obviously going to die, saving his points might be worth.
Last edited by Loriel on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#7 Post by Loriel »

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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#8 Post by Loriel »

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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#9 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Loriel,

That is awesome article, very well structured and clear in what you want to share. Thanks a lot for taking time to prepare it! This site hasn't seen anything similar in a very, very long time! =D>

I will read it many times for sure but just to provide a little bit of feedback, what do you think about possibility of movement control with tempest? Vortex cannot be entered by enemy troops so there is a potential of placing it more for blocking the enemy purposes rather than inflicting any real damage.

I do understand that given the choice other spells may be more useful but I wonder what is your opinion in that matter.

Thanks again for a fantastic write up!
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#10 Post by teep »

With Swordie on this one! Thanks man, great article with a lot of interesting points that obviously deserve
a full-fledged discussion (in which I plan to participate after a coupla re-reads), thanks again
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#11 Post by Loriel »

Thanks for replies @Teep and @Swordmaster
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:I will read it many times for sure but just to provide a little bit of feedback, what do you think about possibility of movement control with tempest? Vortex cannot be entered by enemy troops so there is a potential of placing it more for blocking the enemy purposes rather than inflicting any real damage.

I do understand that given the choice other spells may be more useful but I wonder what is your opinion in that matter.
Unfortunately Tempest isn't vortex spell it is only direct damage and will seize to exist after initial struck. I haven't used vortexes much as movement blockers and with high elven having such a high mobility allready. I have really though this with Tomb Kings skull storm and archer heavy build.

For purpose of this strategy I have being using tempest actually works on one perspective. There is always chance of casting it regardless are you in close combat or not, and even when there isn't any "legal" targets around to be placed. However it doesn't fit for one big reason. You cannot 1 dice it (unless you use Teclis and then too risky) using 2 PD you need to have casting value of 7, which is average and BoH gives you little more reliability. But basicly to cast it with same odds than 1-3 and signatures you need to use 3 PD. The actual effect of this spell can be really bad for big ranked units of skaven and other such rabble and one big advantage here is that 30 inch range and only D6 scatters, so it has really high chance of actual effecting the unit. Too bad that it requires a wound to get the -1 modifier, if it would be on hit then I think this spell would turn one great anti gunline spell.

----

I have wrote this during last couple weeks and yesterday when I got this to the last chapter of the original design of the guide I just made tons of will checks would I publish it. To be honest I am little dissapointed that I wasn't able to resist the urge to publish this yet. Especially when there are three big sections not covered.

Terrain / deployment
Dispelling your enemy
How will your enemy counter this strategy

and summary sheet.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#12 Post by Loriel »

I browsed through about 4 pages of battle reports in hope finding games that included level 4 / alarielle / Teclis with High Magic, but found only one ;) seems to extremely popular :P
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#13 Post by Baza »

Fantastic write up Loriel, a great read.

I have been using High Magic on my level 4 for while now and although I have tried other lores I always find myself coming back to High Magic.

With regards to Arcane Unforging, I think it deserves more credit. In the past couple of games this has scared my opponent to death and they have pulled out all the stops to dispel it. In a recent game I used it to take off a dragonbane gem on a demon prince and its final wound in the process!

Really interested in your observations on High Magic and look forward to more posts on this topic.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#14 Post by Loriel »

Baza wrote:With regards to Arcane Unforging, I think it deserves more credit. In the past couple of games this has scared my opponent to death and they have pulled out all the stops to dispel it. In a recent game I used it to take off a dragonbane gem on a demon prince and its final wound in the process!
It is great spell that in right time can turn tide of battle. However for the purpose of making strong close combat unit, that spell isn't optimal choice.
Baza wrote:Really interested in your observations on High Magic and look forward to more posts on this topic.
Good to hear. I will try to make more post as soon as possible.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#15 Post by NexS »

Great article!
One point I'd make (sorry if you'd already dealt with it - I had only speedread through it at this stage) is if you're going with High Magic as your supportive lore (Lv2 or bound quench), the Phoenix Guard is ideal for maximum usage of the attribute.

Will give it a good read through shortly! Thanks for the effort!
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#16 Post by Loriel »

NexS wrote:Great article!
One point I'd make (sorry if you'd already dealt with it - I had only speedread through it at this stage) is if you're going with High Magic as your supportive lore (Lv2 or bound quench), the Phoenix Guard is ideal for maximum usage of the attribute.

Will give it a good read through shortly! Thanks for the effort!
I understand for speed run and it actually is mentioned there. The main point in the article is that when using High magic with level 4 to get very powerful close combat, phoenix guard isn't the best choice over white lions / swordmasters / dragon princes.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#17 Post by Baza »

Loriel wrote:
NexS wrote:Great article!
One point I'd make (sorry if you'd already dealt with it - I had only speedread through it at this stage) is if you're going with High Magic as your supportive lore (Lv2 or bound quench), the Phoenix Guard is ideal for maximum usage of the attribute.

Will give it a good read through shortly! Thanks for the effort!
I understand for speed run and it actually is mentioned there. The main point in the article is that when using High magic with level 4 to get very powerful close combat, phoenix guard isn't the best choice over white lions / swordmasters / dragon princes.
Agreed, just stick a noble with ring of fury in the unit to get the 3+ward.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#18 Post by Sackree »

Baza wrote:Agreed, just stick a noble with ring of fury in the unit to get the 3+ward.

The problem with this is that it is counter-productive. The aim of Phoenix guard is to be in combat, so ideally you would want that 3+ wardsave active when in combat. By sticking a ring of fury onto them you are only enabling them to have a 3++ after a magic missile has been cast, meaning that they are not in combat.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#19 Post by Loriel »

fury ring is cheap way to provide extra protection as well clear chaff and not worrying about the weak mage. It main advantage is extra protection when you advance and when you are about to be charged. Best situation is that anvil will take charge in and on the next turn hammers hit hard.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#20 Post by NexS »

Sackree wrote: The problem with this is that it is counter-productive. The aim of Phoenix guard is to be in combat, so ideally you would want that 3+ wardsave active when in combat. By sticking a ring of fury onto them you are only enabling them to have a 3++ after a magic missile has been cast, meaning that they are not in combat.
Ah....... yes, good point. I never thought about the order in which the game phases happen!

I don't mind the idea of ring of fury on bird anointed to beef up both bird and rider save.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#21 Post by Orchaldor »

Nice work Loriel!

Recently, I've been thinking about making a High Magic-based list, so it is great to be able to read the thoughts and practical experiences of someone who has actually played such a list :D

One of the things I love about Ulthuan is that people here put so much time and effort into sharing their experiences with others. In that spirit of sharing with fellow Ulthuanites, I'd like to add my own humble opinion on Fiery Convocation to the debate: against certain opponents I've found it can be more powerful than just its obvious potential for damaging hordes - like the other "mind games" you mention above, the fear of this spell alone has allowed me to cast all the low level spells I want with little or no opposition. The great thing about convincing your opponent to hold back his dispel dice is that even after casting your low level spells for the lore attribute, you still have the option to cast Fiery at the end (even on 4 dice AM + Book has 76% chance to cast), or use backup caster/bound spell to hex/MM him - as you have already achieved your goal in getting the ward save, you can be flexible in your choice and not worry even if he dispels you.

In short, Fiery Convocation is still fairly situational, depending on matchup and needing average to good winds to be sufficiently threatening. Against armies that are at high risk from this spell, the psychological impact shouldn't be underestimated - they say "the burnt hand teaches the best", especially if you're a freshly-crisped Clanrat! :twisted:
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#22 Post by Loriel »

Thanks @Orchaldor yep. Fiery Convocation is great spell, but I agree that the low winds phase it will make the idea of having shield of saphery work to your advantage really bad.

That would probably work much better in tactic where BoH archmage is used as Main Character and Alarielle as support character (to get the 5+ ward to unit) and Alarielle would roll spells first and try to get fiery convocation on her, as well with arcane unforging. She would also be fail safe if the Main Character would fail and allow even more daring attempts to 1 dice spells.
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I don't have exact number as I have recorded the games before I started with Tomb Kings with only date, place, size, scenario, victory points, winner army, loser army, game time, short overview (usually something like 3rd turn anhilation etc). But I think I have used High magic as main magic in 17 th game from total 29 games with 8th armybook. One of the best part of it is the reliability. There isn't not many other lores that offers same kind of reliability in both low, average and high winds.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#23 Post by Loriel »

@Orchaldor do you happend to have battlereports where you have used High Magic? I would like to add them to the original post as reference.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#24 Post by Orchaldor »

Sorry Loriel, I don't have any battle reports to contribute - in truth I've never been brave enough to write one!

I agree that both Fiery Convocation and Arcane Unforging would work better with the Shield of Saphery tactic in bigger games, where you can have enough magic support options to allow the Main Character to do his job without compromising his spell choices. Low winds phases are still an issue though :(
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#25 Post by J4far »

I would argue that Fiery Convocation is one of the stronger "6th spells", considering it is remains in play. If you get it off your opponent needs to then use PD to remove it during their turn, reducing the effectiveness of that magic phase. At 19+ it generally takes 5-6 dice to safely remove it, 4 if you are feeling lucky with a level 4 (but super risky since avg is 14 on 4 dice).

Fewer PD for opponent in their turn = fewer buffs/debuffs, less dmg getting through... the Burnanator is definitely one of my favorite spells from the Lore that is not always the best choice, but having that option in the Lore makes it one of my favorites (being so versatile).
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#26 Post by Prince of Spires »

J4far wrote:I would argue that Fiery Convocation is one of the stronger "6th spells", considering it is remains in play. If you get it off your opponent needs to then use PD to remove it during their turn, reducing the effectiveness of that magic phase. At 19+ it generally takes 5-6 dice to safely remove it, 4 if you are feeling lucky with a level 4 (but super risky since avg is 14 on 4 dice).

Fewer PD for opponent in their turn = fewer buffs/debuffs, less dmg getting through... the Burnanator is definitely one of my favorite spells from the Lore that is not always the best choice, but having that option in the Lore makes it one of my favorites (being so versatile).
It is a bit on the situational side I feel. It is great against some units, not so good against others.

If you're facing a skaven army, I would generally keep convocation. s4 hits on every model each magic phase is very painful for large t3 low armour units. It's the ideal tool to make a unit of 50 clanrats - 100 slaves disappear. Same with goblins and the like.

It's ok against elves (depending on BOTWD in HE lists of course). Units tend to be smaller, meaning fewer hits and so fewer models dying. Still, taking out half a unit of 15+ ppm elves can make it worth it.

If you're up against something with higher T and high armour saves, then convocation doesn't do a whole lot. 1+ armour save units don't really care too much about s4 hits. Even if there are a lot of them.

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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#27 Post by Francis »

Great write up, top notch and I agree with almost everything here. The one thing I can't agree to however is that fencer's blades are better than the 4++ basic save.

I guess that ws5 high amount of attacks troops really scare me, and I don't put that much trust in getting a decent ward save from the shield at a crucial time. In fact I just upgraded my Archmage's protection from a 5++ to a 4++ in order to make sure that a low phase and an oponent's dispel scroll won't leave me with a 5++ and a dead mage.
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#28 Post by Andros123 »

Hi Loriel.

Thank you for the effort you put in this very interesting article =D> .

I've been using high magic a lot and it is very rare that I go to tournaments without it in my army.
I have some overall thoughts on your article I would like to discuss.

1. It seems to me that you are basing your analysis on high magic on the fact that buffing a unit with additional ward saves is in itself worth it. If you make an army and the strategy relies on having the shield up every turn, then you pass up so many of the things high magic also can do. Let's say you get low winds of magic (3-4 dice). It offers you a great opportunity to pull that scroll by casting arcane unforging with all the dice, but instead you have to 1-dice spells to get the ward save up. I mean is it really worth it getting that extra +1 or +2 ward save compared to stripping the chaos lord from his talisman of preservation, burning a big unit of savage orcs etc.?

From my experience I've found that I can't just put my high archmage in a unit and expect it to walk around with a 4-5+ ward save all the time. But again that is because I don't fully commit to cast multiple spells each turn, because I down think it is worth it compared to what the lore otherwise can do.

2. This brings me to my second point. Overall as many people have mentioned, High magic is a great lore. It offers you things that no other lore does. However, being a toolbox lore it has the problem of being very situational. Situational in the sense that more often than not you only have one spell in every magic phase that truly matters. Both you and your opponent know this. That is why I find it to be insufficient by itself. Recently I have had quite a lot of success with a lvl. 4 high mage + a loremaster. It makes for a very potent magic phase, that forces your opponent to make very difficult decisions with regards to his dispelling.

Overall I only use the high magic lore attribute as a bonus and I try to make use of its synergies where I can. A few examples being the shield of merwyrm, Phoenix guards, dragon armour.

I don't about your meta, but mine is characterized by very mobile units and not so many blocks. That's why having a big unkillable block really doesn't work, since people can easily just avoid it. You can make such a block with Alarielle + high magic, but you'll never catch anything. Thus, I usually go with a light council when playing Alarielle, plus timewarp (easy to cast with banner of avelorn) makes the unit highly mobile, when I need it to.

Code: Select all

It is a bit on the situational side I feel. It is great against some units, not so good against others. 

If you're facing a skaven army, I would generally keep convocation. s4 hits on every model each magic phase is very painful for large t3 low armour units. It's the ideal tool to make a unit of 50 clanrats - 100 slaves disappear. Same with goblins and the like. 

It's ok against elves (depending on BOTWD in HE lists of course). Units tend to be smaller, meaning fewer hits and so fewer models dying. Still, taking out half a unit of 15+ ppm elves can make it worth it. 
I actually don't think this one is situational. It can work against most armies. The fact that it is remains in play, makes it so useful. Because of this ability, I'll even cast it on a unit of say 8 wild riders. Around 4 of them will die, and now my opponent has to make a difficult decision in his magic phase. Does he give it up, in order to save his remaining 4 riders, or does he sacrifice them (8 wild riders is a lot of points!). In my opinion you can even cast it on a silver helm bus (without the banner of course). I mean, how many of you would just let the spell go on and on even if you still have your 3+ AS? The fact that it burns in both your and your opponents magic phases makes a huge difference.

Again, thanks for the writeup. I'll look forward to the rest :) .
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Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#29 Post by Loriel »

Francis wrote:Great write up, top notch and I agree with almost everything here. The one thing I can't agree to however is that fencer's blades are better than the 4++ basic save.

I guess that ws5 high amount of attacks troops really scare me, and I don't put that much trust in getting a decent ward save from the shield at a crucial time. In fact I just upgraded my Archmage's protection from a 5++ to a 4++ in order to make sure that a low phase and an oponent's dispel scroll won't leave me with a 5++ and a dead mage.
With the tactic included (using annointed or alarielle) as support character your archmage tends to have atleast 5+ (almost guaranteed), mostly 4+ and at best 3+ ward. But I haven't never crunched the numbers really so lets have ago

------------

Lets think fighting against ws 5 without fencers but with ToP. lets not consider STR because it will be same for both strikes so pretty redundant.

With Talisman of Preservation, WS 5 no rerolls strike
0 Shield of Saphery = 2/3 hits * 1/2 past ward -> 1/3 * [str modifier] will wound
1 Shield of Saphery = 2/3 hits * 1/3 past ward -> 2/9 * [str modifier] will wound

With Fencers + Annointed, WS 5 no rerolls strike
0 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 5/6 past ward -> 5/12 * [str modifier] will wound
1 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 2/3 past ward -> 1/3 * [str modifier] will wound
2 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 1/2 past ward -> 1/4 * [str modifier] will wound
3 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 1/3 past ward -> 1/6 * [str modifier] will wound

it seems that you @Francis my dear sir are right by the numbers. Well 1 Proc on 0 Procs with saphery is about equal. I was almost absolutely sure that 2 procs saphery + fencers would be better than 1 proc with ToP.

Well using the Crown of Atrazar + Fencers might turn the tide over, making the wizard survive that crucial first round of combat.

With Talisman of Preservation, WS 4 no rerolls strike
0 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 1/2 past ward -> 1/4 * [str modifier] will wound
1 Shield of Saphery = 1/2 hits * 1/3 past ward -> 1/6 * [str modifier] will wound

With Fencers + Annointed, WS 4 no rerolls strike
0 Shield of Saphery = 1/3 hits * 5/6 past ward -> 5/18 * [str modifier] will wound
1 Shield of Saphery = 1/3 hits * 2/3 past ward -> 2/9 * [str modifier] will wound
2 Shield of Saphery = 1/3 hits * 1/2 past ward -> 1/6 * [str modifier] will wound
3 Shield of Saphery = 1/3 hits * 1/3 past ward -> 1/9 * [str modifier] will wound
----------------

There is one crucial part (at least works in my local gaming club) that we use hidden lists and fencers blade will be revealed at the start of battle when the mage has to use it for extra attack. Many of my opponents decides no to strike them with their rank and files as they tend to hit on 5+.

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Well I have to update. Never trust your gut feeling when it comes to odds :P
High Elves since Aug 2010: Tot /W / L / D - 100 / 75 / 23 / 2
Tomb Kings since Sep 2013:Tot / W / L / D - 31 / 18 / 12 / 1

Chronicles of Loriel's Glory and Shame
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Loriel
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Location: Winterfell

Re: Loriel's Guide to High Magic

#30 Post by Loriel »

Andros123 wrote:I've been using high magic a lot and it is very rare that I go to tournaments without it in my army.
I have some overall thoughts on your article I would like to discuss.
Do you happen to have any Battle Reports? I would gladly include them in the first post for reference ;)
Andros123 wrote:It seems to me that you are basing your analysis on high magic on the fact that buffing a unit with additional ward saves is in itself worth it.
That is the exact point of this guide ;) I understand that some would say that Life would give pretty much same or even better effect from earth blood + flesh to stone or light pha + speed of light.

Using it the way that you maximize 1 dicing -> have reliable way to gain the boost regardless of winds of magic. Many players tend to have this one spell to rule them all mentality and that lead about 1/4 - 2/5 magic phase being "wasted" due too little dices to be used. Secondly that strategy will more likely lead losing the magic due miscast.
Andros123 wrote:I mean is it really worth it getting that extra +1 or +2 ward save compared to stripping the chaos lord from his talisman of preservation, burning a big unit of savage orcs etc.?
This is valid point, mostly my white lion block aims to break the opponent and I tend to think ward save as having about x rolls on 4+ giving me +1 combat resolution.
Andros123 wrote:I don't about your meta, but mine is characterized by very mobile units and not so many blocks. That's why having a big unkillable block really doesn't work, since people can easily just avoid it. You can make such a block with Alarielle + high magic, but you'll never catch anything. Thus, I usually go with a light council when playing Alarielle, plus timewarp (easy to cast with banner of avelorn) makes the unit highly mobile, when I need it to.
My meta is rather random, but mostly friendly games. We tend to prefer more infantry blocks and naturally it really influences my view. I also play really aggressively with High Magic using walk between the worlds to make sometimes turn 1 straight forward movement with 20 inch right in front of enemy to challenge him making a charge and depending on enemy forces even open my flanks to them to take the charge. Secondly I use reavers to stall any of my opponent key units so that the infantry block could catch them.

One of the important part about the guide was to not overspend on the Main Combat Unit. 500 points (2400) is max added the characters when it will be less than 1k it is fine. Perhaps in your meta even smaller unit would work better.
High Elves since Aug 2010: Tot /W / L / D - 100 / 75 / 23 / 2
Tomb Kings since Sep 2013:Tot / W / L / D - 31 / 18 / 12 / 1

Chronicles of Loriel's Glory and Shame
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