New Units Ideas

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Malhandir's Feed
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New Units Ideas

#1 Post by Malhandir's Feed »

Okay, at Keith's idea and my initiative, I started this thread. The title says it all. Start writing!
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oscar1492
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Re: New Units Ideas

#2 Post by oscar1492 »

Does said units have to be for HE or can they be for any race?
If you ever need anything, please dont hesitate to ask someone else first.

[quote="Eldacar"][quote]As Xerxes withdrew, most of his army starved before they reached the hellespont. This brings back the logistical problem. [/quote]
Eating all the supplies on the way in will do that to you.[/quote]
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Musashi
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Re: New Units Ideas

#3 Post by Musashi »

Let's try to stick to HE units.
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Prince_Asuryan
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Re: New Units Ideas

#4 Post by Prince_Asuryan »

Other races have other sites - and other races won't get much of a response.

NOTE: Think carefully about these units people, they not only have to be useful, but consider if they'd be taken too much or too little, and point them appropriately please. I'm very grumpy from doing revision, and because I'm interested in this topic, I'm gonna rip them apart :P (constructively of course - I'm not that mean usually)
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Musashi
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Re: New Units Ideas

#5 Post by Musashi »

Though in interests of fairness, it should be noted that I'll be doing Gnome units, though on another thread.
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Re: New Units Ideas

#6 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

GNOMES? WHERE?
kelevandros
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Re: New Units Ideas

#7 Post by kelevandros »

Cothique Raiders

The perilous Waters around Cothique Breed some of the Hardiest sailors known to elven kind, whether defending against norscan raids, or the horrors of the sea these elves will be in t he thick of battle protecting ulthuan from some of its most dangerous foes.

Rare

M W BS S T I A W LD
Raider 5 4 4 3 3 5 1 1 8
Raider Captain 5 4 4 3 3 5 2 1 9

Points/Model: 18
Unit Size: 10+
Equipment: Hand Weapon,
May Purchase javelins at an Additional +3 points per model.
Upgrade one Raider to Musician at +10 points
Upgrade one Raider to Captain at +15 Points
Upgrade One Raider to Standard Bearer at +10 points

Special Rules
Speed of Asuryan, Skirmish

Seafarers: Cothique Raiders Treat any aquatic Terrain Feature as Open Ground for the purposes of movement.

Stalwart: Immune to Fear and Terror
ilmrik II
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Re: New Units Ideas

#8 Post by ilmrik II »

hmm,
so they have the stats of spearelves,
no bonusses except their immune to fear/terror
take a rare slot ( which I can't have enough of usually)
at 18 pts each are very expensive
and wear no armor,
have no real ranged weapon, and I pay a lot for it

explain to me why I would take these guys
if I don't even take SW, which have more functions on the battle field and cost less
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Re: New Units Ideas

#9 Post by geoguswrek »

The "where do all the old spearelves go?"

0-1 Veteran spearelves 13 points per model (aimed to be a stepping stone between elite infantry and spears)

Don't fill any army slot. (ie are core but don't count towards minimum requirement)
unit size: 5+

M WS BS S T I A W Ld
5 5 10 3 3 5 1 1 8
(bs 10 cos they don't got no shooting so it doesn't matter:P)

equipment:
heavy armour, shield, spear, handweapon.
command:
MUST take a champion +12 points (+1 attack, +1 ld)
muso 5 points
standard 10 points
standard may be magical up to 25 points.

special rules
speed of asuryan, martial prowess

Spearwall: the veteran elves have fought together as a unit longer than any human has lived, they know each others moves instinctively and are adept at using their long elven spears to strike down the enemy before they can even consider striking back.
Enemies fighting to the front of a unit of veteran elves has its WS and I reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1)

Leaders of the citizen militia: if the army contains a unit of veteran elves, all spearelf units may take a banner worth up to 25 points, in addition all core units within 6" of the unit may use the champion's leadership (as long as he is still alive) as though the champion were the army general.

Trust in the plan!: these elves are veterans of campaigns, they have seen units decimated and victory still carried.
Veteran elves are immune to panic as long as the general is still alive. If the general dies they must take an immediate panic test.
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Re: New Units Ideas

#10 Post by Malhandir's Feed »

Okay, that was as good as it gets. Not over powered, priced fairly...

The only thing I could say is that for 1 more point they get +1A. Meaning alter the statline and make them 14 points. Other than that they are amazing. Not necessarly useful, but good in its own way. Now we are getting somewhere with this thread.
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geoguswrek
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Re: New Units Ideas

#11 Post by geoguswrek »

14 points with 2 attacks each means 2 things:
1) every non-he player cries that you have a unit with effectively 6 s3 attacks each (and hitting on 3's a lot of the time).
2) He players don't take them very often as for 1 point more you get a swordmaster.
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branabus
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Re: New Units Ideas

#12 Post by branabus »

Swordmasters panic, veterans don't.
And they can't have a 3+ Armour Save.
Their champion doesn't give +1LD
And enemy WS isn't minus 1.
+ They can't fight in 2 ranks.
So HE players WILL take the Veterans.
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Chracian
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Re: New Units Ideas

#13 Post by Chracian »

I put this up before the re-jig and I think its disappeared, so here goes...

Lion prince of chrace (special choice)
M WS BS S T W I A LD
White lion5 5 4 4 3 1 5 1 8
War lion 8 5 0 5 4 1 4 2 6

Points/model: 30
Unit size: 4+
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon, spear, heavy armour, shield. Can exchange spear and shield for woodsman’s axe (great weapon) at no cost
Mount: war lion
Special rules: Valour of ages, speed of asuryan, cause fear
Command: Champion (+1 attack) 20 points, can have magic items up to 25 points, musician 10 points, standard bearer 20 points, can have magical banner up to 50 points

So what we have here is a unit identical in terms of points to DPs. No dragon armour. Same number of attacks, but more likely to hit due to the war lions higher WS and S. I thought about putting in the lion cloak, but that would make them too powerful (plus, would you let somebody on your back with your friends skin drape round them?). I have put the unit size as 4+ rather than 5+ purely because the war lions come in pairs (from the chariot set).
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Re: New Units Ideas

#14 Post by WarpPhoenix »

Should probably make the great weapon the default, they seem pretty tied to their woodsmans axe. In fact I wouldnt give them the option of the shield and spear, just take that option away and give them their cloaks back. They only have a 4+ save in combat so they will die easy unless that becomes a 2+ from shooting on the way in. Also you forgot the stubborn part ;p

Stubborn, fear causing cavalry with the option to become immune to fear and terrer or immune to psych all together through a banner AND throwing on magical attacks from the champ if you want means you've got a movement 8 (not barded!) charge 16 cav that will tear through your line like none other.

Id say put in the changes i said, change them to rare and make them 3-4 more points espensive.

edit: Also keep them woodsmen, walking through the forests is a big deal to them, id say keep them liek they are on foot just put them on a lion.
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Re: New Units Ideas

#15 Post by Citizen Militia »

I quite like the veteran spearelves unit but I have to make a rant about spears generally; although I wont deny they are brilliant units, it annoys me that in real life a mass unit of spear men would be the natural defence against cavalry by using the charging units momentum against them.

While Spearmen are a brilliant defensive unit their "fights in 2/3 ranks" bonus really makes them effective against big units which have poor armour and less so against cavalry. Therefore we have a house rule between me and my brother where (for any army not just HE) spearmen get +1 strength in the 1st turn of combat if they were charged in the front from more than 10 inches. Combined with the fact that you can still fight in multiple ranks this all of a sudden makes them a bit better against fast moving heavily armoured opponents. Just wondered what you all thought of this rule.
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Re: New Units Ideas

#16 Post by Asur Aman »

I like the bonus when being charged, makes sense. Also like the veteran spears, very cool.
The lion riders models are being played already and so would be nice to give them some rules.I like them with great weapons,no lances or shields and fast cav. 8)
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Re: New Units Ideas

#17 Post by Flame of the Asuryan »

Chracian Spearmen.
"All different nations within Ulthuan field their spearmen and Chrace is no exception. Because of their more tribal-like nature, their spearmen have become one the most famous and outstanding ranks in the known Elven Kingdom. Because of their Chracian nature, those troops fight in less disciplined ranks, but their Chracian ferocity in battle makes up much for it!

Chracian Spearmen. 9 pts

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 4 4 3 1 5 1 8

Unit size 10+

Equipment:
Light Armour, Hand weapons, Spears, Woodmen's cloak

Upgrades:
Chracian Champion +10 pts
Banner +10 pts
Musician +5 pts

Special rules:
Speed of the Asuryan, Valour of Ages, Woodmen, Woodmen's cloak, Chracian ferocity.

Woodman's cloak.
-Models wearing a Woodsmen's cloak receive +1 Armour save against any form of missleattack. Like the White Lion's cloak, it is thrown back over the shoulder in combat and grants no additional protectein.
Chracian ferocity.
-Whenever a unit of Chracian Spearmen loses a combat, they only suffer half of the leadership penalties in any breaktests they have to take, rounded down. Note that they still suffer from autobreak from fear causing enemies. (For exameple, a unit that loses the combat on a 3, have to take their break test at -1.)

The unit offers a spearmen unit that fights with less attack and is more lightly armoured than normal spearmen but it gives strength and staying power in desperate fighting
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Citizen Militia
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Re: New Units Ideas

#18 Post by Citizen Militia »

I had a sleep on it and thought of a couple of points towards the Lion princes; firstly definitely no cloak, even the white lions in the chariot dont wear one

second, you cant take away the woodsmen special ability because white lions ARE woodsmen the only reason they took it away for the chariot is because chariots wouldnt fare well in wooded areas but lions on their own would be nimble enough

third, dont give them the choice of weapons, its great axes all the way

fourth, they do need to be a little tougher to reflect the toughness of the lion, but since these are mounted units the easiest way to do that is to modify the stat line of the rider. Make him T=4 and W=2. That way even though he has not much armour and like I suggested no cloak they won't be wiped out in the first shooting phase. Especially if they can hide in a wood

with those modifications I would say 34 points a model is reasonable enough? I would say 5+ though on unit size
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Re: New Units Ideas

#19 Post by Arellion Sapher »

Just been flicking through Gilead's Blood and somewhere in there I think we have to have Asur Crossbow (not repeater) units, and Halberdiers. Just make it an up/down/sidegrade from the Spearmen and Archers units.

Perhaps - 0-1 unit of Archers can upgrade Longbows to Crossbows for +2pts... remains core.

0-1 units of Spearmen can swap spear and shield for Halberd for free.
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Re: New Units Ideas

#20 Post by geoguswrek »

13 point crossbows seem a little steep.
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saintjon
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Re: New Units Ideas

#21 Post by saintjon »

my lion chariot crew have lion pelts...
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Re: New Units Ideas

#22 Post by pk-ng »

saintjon wrote:my lion chariot crew have lion pelts...
but it's just for looks. it's not stated in the book. it only says they are armed with great weapons. the chariot itself gets a better AS cuz of better construction i would assume?

but definitely gd idea from CM. mite start on those units sometime in the future.
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Corthan
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Re: New Units Ideas

#23 Post by Corthan »

Arellion Sapher wrote:Just been flicking through Gilead's Blood and somewhere in there I think we have to have Asur Crossbow (not repeater) units, and Halberdiers. Just make it an up/down/sidegrade from the Spearmen and Archers units.

weird, I logged on to the website to ask this very question.

I was going to ask you all if you thought giving my noble a crossbow - basically miniaturized bolt thrower technology would be breaking fluff too much. How was their use and look described in Gileads? - What time frame was it? I figured that elves must have been the ones to invent crossbow - or at least bolt thrower technology. But do you all think there might be a stigma surrounding the use of that particular weapon because the druchii use it in repeater form?

also, can you tell me how much crossbows cost for say, a dwarf hero or is that breaking rules?

thanks
Lathaon
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Re: New Units Ideas

#24 Post by Lathaon »

geoguswrek wrote:13 point crossbows seem a little steep.
11 point longbows seem a little steep :P
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Re: New Units Ideas

#25 Post by KJSparkz »

Nagarythe Spearmen

Points 10
M WS BS S T I A W Ld
5 5 4 3 3 5 1 1 8

Have light armour,spears, shields (may take throwing Spears for +1pt per model).

Special Rules
Unit have Nagarythe Hatred,Ambushers and Devastating Charge.


Similar to Shadow Warriors they would roam ahead of a High Elf army moving through the shadows and getting in to position to threaten the enemy's flank and rear. Each turn after the first Roll to see if unit enters play. 1/2 enter from Left flank,3/4 Right flank,5/6 from opponent's table edge.May move M+D6 on turn they enter if not equipped with throwing spears or use throwing spears on turn they enter play.
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Greenman
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Re: New Units Ideas

#26 Post by Greenman »

Flying Sea Guard ship.
a ton of points,loads of bolt throwers and archers;mage using Old One crystal technology to make the blessed thing go
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Re: New Units Ideas

#27 Post by Mireadur »

Hi, i added this warmachine to my gaming group HE modded book sometime ago:

Repeating bolt thrower ‘’Griffon Claws’’: (add the price you feel it deserves) points. An innovative design from the engineers of Lotherm as an asnwer to the demand of an effective warmachine agaisnt enemy heavy troops.

Shoots as a normal boltthrower except that it always shoots 10 bolts at a time. It is a rare slot, i forgot to mention.

Nº of shots: 10. Reach: 36''. St: 5, Armour piercing

I thought of this innovation when watching the old 4th ed RBT while i was looking for some new machine.

Image
Ashlian
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Re: New Units Ideas

#28 Post by Ashlian »

this is not really a new unit but still...
here's my phoenix king:

Finubar the seafarer:

Prince profile => 150pts.
can take equipment/mount as normal (no magical items)

*inspiring aura => 105pts.
*scholar => 25pts.
*phoenix king's royal armour => 25pts.
*phoenix crown => 45pts.
*ring of sorcery => 50pts.
*lion guard => ?pts.

=> base total of 400pts.

*inspiring aura: based on army standard bearer + battle banner (p101 HE-army book) (25pts. + 80pts.)
Unit joined by Finubar gets +D6 to the combat resolution n addition if the phoenix king is not with a unit, he can stil inspire one unit within the distance of 6" (gives same bonus).
This unit must be selected at the start of the turn.

*scholar: Finubar is a wise man and thus he has a minimum understanding of high magic. He does not contribute to the accumulation of power/dispel dice (siphon), nor can he be used to dispel enemy
spell's. Finubar can, however, cast the spell "shield of saphery" (cast as a lv.1 mage) and once in the game he can attempt to cast "flames of the phoenix" (cast as bound spell power lv.3).

*phoenix king's royal armour: based on armour of caledor (p100 HE-army book) (25pts.)
This magical armour gives Finubar a 2+ AS that cannot be improved + immune to breath and flaming attacks.

*phoenix crown: based on talisman of preservation (45pts.)
The sacred crown gives the bearer a 4+ ward save.

*ring of sorcery: based on Banner of sorcery (p101 HE-army book) (50pts.)
adds +D3 power dice to your pile in each of your magic phase (to keep thing fair => "Banner of sorcery" is forbidden when Finubar is part of your army).

*Lion guard: Finubar must be accompanied with at least 5 white lions of Chrance (one has to be a "guardian" or "Korhil"). Also, this unit must always stay within at least 8" of Finubar. Should finubar be in
close combat and isn't part of another unit, the lion guard rushes to their king as fast as possible (meaning: during movement phase they charge the unit wich is attacking the king).
painting models: [url]http://warhammerhighelveswhitelions.blogspot.be/[/url]
Tengal Krakenbane
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Re: New Units Ideas

#29 Post by Tengal Krakenbane »

Dragon Breath Cannon to go along with Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers? Fire Thrower with magical attacks with no 'Destroyed!' result on the Misfire chart.
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asurwardrum
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Re: New Units Ideas

#30 Post by asurwardrum »

How about a large bolt thrower (Dragon Claw) but single shot only at strength 8 and crew men with BS of 5 but unit has to be fixed in place and cant move three crew though and a five ward save to help protect from counter fire [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o<
and how about bring back Maiden guard who fight along the lines of war-dancers but with spears similar to the wood elves eternal guard ? :D
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