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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:45 am 
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EDIT: After alot of thought it seems to me that with the current army comp system of 8th, a system like this simply won't be aplieple with the large difference in point cost across army books per wizard.

Gonna try and see if i can come up with something else that would work alot better with the current 8th edidtion rules. Blessing of lileath are giving me a few ideas.



A small attempt to bring the old 7th magic system and the randomness of the 8th magic system togheter.

For this sytem to work spells would first and foremost need to be nerfed.

Not getting any + to cast or dispell from wizard levels and keeping the same casting costs would be good. MAYBE reduce the casting cost of all spells by 1 or 2.

Let magic resist give +1 dice again against offensive spells cast at the unit.

Reduce the effectiveness of a spell(Example: Wyssans wildform, you would have to choose betwem gething either +1S og +1T not get both. Another Example coulde be The Speed of Light only giving +2WS and +3INI insted of straight out 10 in both) This 'mostly' aplies to buff spells and non target spells like wortex since offensive spells can be easier negated with magic resist on important units.

Spells are no longer rolled for, but insted mages get abit cheaper and each lvl of a wizard gives them 25 points to buy spells for(Example: lvl1 gets 25 points. lvl 2 gets 50 points and so on)

Really dangerus spells like dwellers, pit and mindrazor are REALLY expensive like atleast 80+ points.

Progressive miscast table. It goes from a score of 2 all the way up to 30. rolling 7 or lower nothing happens except the wizard gets a S1 Hit with no armour saves on 25+ it is a no save dead mage every time with a large S10 template one top of him too(And different levels of nastyness inbetwem) When you miscast you roll on the miscast table with the same amount of dice as you attempted to cast with.

No limit on dispell scrolls. (Aka a lvl 2 can buy 2 dispell scrolls for its 50 points and a lvl 4 can buy four dispell scrolls. And 2 lvl 2 + 1 lvl 4 can buy 8 dispell scrolls togheter and so on)

Power dice generation.
All army's +1.(It is deliberate that you get 1 more dispell dice than power dice for free)
Lvl 1. D2.
Lvl 2. D2+1.
Lvl 3. D3+1.
Lvl 4. D3+2.
Any power dice generated by a wizard HAS to be used on his own spells and can NOT be used by other wizards. (Dice generated by effects like casket of souls can be used by all wizards but power dice generated by lore of death has to be used on the same wizard as the one who cast the spell who generated the dice)

Dispel dice generation.
All army's +2.
Lvl 1. +1.
Lvl 2. D2.
Lvl 3. D3.
Lvl 4. D3+1
Dorf Runesmith and Runelord stay as they are with dispell dice generation.


Last edited by Mech87 on Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:23 am 
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Why would you want a magic system like this? It seems to cripple the entire phase by making spells less powerful, limiting the number of dice each wizard can use and giving the enemy enough dispell dice to stop every spell you cast.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:49 am 
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So with 2 level 4s and 3 level 2s I'd get 13-20 power dice a turn AND get to choose my spells? Why would I even bother taking combat heroes? Even more so since I know my opponents would be doing the same (Skaven anyone?) and I'd be needing all the dispel scrolls I could afford.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:38 am 
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Cold Phoenix wrote:
Why would you want a magic system like this? It seems to cripple the entire phase by making spells less powerful, limiting the number of dice each wizard can use and giving the enemy enough dispell dice to stop every spell you cast.


I would want a magic system like this, cause like taking more then one war machine, i want taking more then one mage have a proper effect on the magic phase. (Make it more powerfull)
A magic heavy army with a system like this would be possible but still make it possible for opponents to mitigate the power of it abit.

It is quite simply to 'to me' make magic give more sense then, Ohh, we are 8 powerfull wizards on this side of the battle but not a single one of us can have any effect on how much magic we have to use, and just one of us can use every single scrap of magical power we got.

RE.Lee wrote:
So with 2 level 4s and 3 level 2s I'd get 13-20 power dice a turn AND get to choose my spells? Why would I even bother taking combat heroes? Even more so since I know my opponents would be doing the same (Skaven anyone?) and I'd be needing all the dispel scrolls I could afford.


I can only assume you haven't read the whole thing.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:57 am 
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I did. I still think its a worse system than what we have and would lead to massive arms race in magic.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:22 pm 
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RE.Lee wrote:
I did. I still think its a worse system than what we have and would lead to massive arms race in magic.


If that happened it would only be because people had kneejerk reactions and each individual spell wasn't properly nerfed.

While having two lvl 4s and 3 lvl 2 just how many points would you have spendt including magic items and the cost of the spells themselves?

Assume all wizards get reduced by maybe 15 points each, and then they get even more expensive buying their spells.

Archmage would then be 170 points each. +35 for a lvl. +55 for example book of hoeth. +25 points for a dispell scroll. AND + something like 80 points for buying Wildform, The amber spear and The Savage beast of Horros.

That's 365 points for a single carecter that would disapear infront of a combat carecter that cost half as much as a bowl of nudless infront of, well, me, they disapear before you can see them. :D
You would get some really decent support and offense, but certainly pay the price for it.

Now you wanted two lvl 4? So the next mage goes lvl 4 too get's book of ashur and shadow magic pit of shades. But lo and behold pit of shades cost 85 points so he can either buy steed of shadows with the last 15 points or settle for a single spell Cause the rest in the lore are too expensive. Considering the new miscast table this one is gonna be living in the danger zone throwing a high amount of dice each turn.

This mage would cost 385 + the 365 from the other mage and you have already spendt 750 points in lords. Just how much combat lord can you get for that many points? Or bolthrowers? Or two large groups of White Lions and so on and so on.

Also to achive that amount of magical power you would have to play games at 3000+ points.

The nerfs to make it balanced are in there if you have actually read it. Whether or not it would ACTUALY be balanced in a real game or not i have absolute NO idea, im afterall not a game designer or even a tournament player yet(Looking to get some more experience in friendly games first).


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:26 pm 
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you're looking at it from a purely (high) elf perspective in my mind.

There are plenty of races out there who can buy mages on the cheap. Skaven can get 15pts mages, same goes for goblins. 15pts for D2 PD per phase? Yes please. In the old HE book, the banner of sorcery was considered a very good and strong buy @50 pts for D3 pd.

So you would end up with elite races having a few mages trying to defend against a horde of cheap mages generating PD combined with 1 or 2 powerfull mages who can buy whatever spells they want. Definatly not fun and a bad idea in my opinion.

And that is counting outside the units that count as mages themselves. I'm with R.E.Lee that it would lead to a magical arms race. And one that the expensive races would lose. The current mechanism is actually very nice in balancing magic and forcing people to focus on troops.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:35 am 
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rdghuizing wrote:
you're looking at it from a purely (high) elf perspective in my mind.

There are plenty of races out there who can buy mages on the cheap. Skaven can get 15pts mages, same goes for goblins. 15pts for D2 PD per phase? Yes please.

I will admit to not having given that part about about the current rule books much thought. Through you are exagerating a good bit about skaven and goblins, they do cost a good bit more then 15 points with actual wizard lvls.

I guess one of the problems with a system like this is the current % system in army building insted of the 7th number system.

rdghuizing wrote:
The current mechanism is actually very nice in balancing magic and forcing people to focus on troops.

The current system is pretty balanced yes. But i REALLY don't like that we are forced into foccusing on trops. Maybe i should just try and find some place that likes to play the 7th version.

Haven't answered the rest of your post since you took the 1 to 2 min it would take to explain why you think it would be a bad idea, and i can see what you mean.

Gonna think abit more about it and properly edit my original post. Not gonna give up just yet. :D


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