Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

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GooberNumber9
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#121 Post by GooberNumber9 »

Awesome thread, thanks!

I knew some of these but for most of them I hadn't put two and two together to figure out all the ramifications of these tricks. Now I have to order more eagles!
ju1ce
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#122 Post by ju1ce »

:twisted: DEATH EAGLE OF DOOM :twisted:
If you're playing a mage with lore of death you can cast 'Aspect of the Death Knight' w/ a 9+ to cause terror with your eagle. Then charge, from up to 22" away, a low leadership unit (ie. Bretonnian peasant bowmen, Ld5) which have to declare a flee if they fail. If they do flee and don't catch them you simply redirect the charge and do it to another unit.
Works brilliantly if the said unit receives a "Doom and Darkness" (Ld5 - 3 = Ld 2 !!) before the charge too :) and esp cool if the said unit is shielding another behind it that causes it to panic (ie. a Field Trebuchet ) :D .
Best done on a flank.
It can neutralise shooting pretty well but admittedly only works after the 1st turn.

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de kaasboer
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#123 Post by de kaasboer »

ju1ce wrote::twisted: DEATH EAGLE OF DOOM :twisted:
while this isn't realy an "eagle" tactic i also use a wizard on eagle with death spells. mine is usually a "mage-knight" though, so either a noble on eagle with radian gem and charmed shield (and gw), or a highborn with the gem, some ward and an extra spell. both will always take a snipespell from lore of death (usually signature) and the extra spell on the highborn can be really awsome: you either get 2 ways of sniping, a snipe spell and purple sun (awesome on flying char.) , or a snipespell and the S/D or ld debuff. all awesome if you ask me.
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#124 Post by Brian Mage »

Considering how many times people ask about eagles - Can this thread be Stickied?

Looks to the mods :?:
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Botjer
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#125 Post by Botjer »

I concurr
Midfish
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#126 Post by Midfish »

I might seem like a noob for this, but for trick #5 what is stopping you from fighting with the phoenix guard twice in the same turn anyway?

If you overrun after wiping out a unit and effectively charge a new unit with this overrun...you just attack them again as a new combat. You don't need an eagle in the flank waiting for your other troops to overrun into the enemy. You can charge and overrun and kill multiple units in the same turn, potentially having one unit charge and kill 2+ units. This is one of the amazing qualities of having a heavy cavalry hammer perform a flank charge down a line of troops.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but please include a page # in the BRB, cause I even went and re-read the overrun (page #58), and nothing there says the units can't fight twice. Maybe I'm just missing something..
Bolt Thrower
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#127 Post by Bolt Thrower »

Midfish wrote:I might seem like a noob for this, but for trick #5 what is stopping you from fighting with the phoenix guard twice in the same turn anyway?

If you overrun after wiping out a unit and effectively charge a new unit with this overrun...you just attack them again as a new combat. You don't need an eagle in the flank waiting for your other troops to overrun into the enemy. You can charge and overrun and kill multiple units in the same turn, potentially having one unit charge and kill 2+ units. This is one of the amazing qualities of having a heavy cavalry hammer perform a flank charge down a line of troops.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but please include a page # in the BRB, cause I even went and re-read the overrun (page #58), and nothing there says the units can't fight twice. Maybe I'm just missing something..
Hey, Midfish. The rule to refer to for this question is on page 58 of the BRB under the Pursuit into a New Enemy section. An overrun is governed by the pursuit rules and so when it leads a unit to smash into another we must refer to the pursuit rules to see what happens. In that section on page 58 you will read that if the enemy unit that is hit is not in close combat already (or they were in combat but it was already resolved), then the overrun combat happens in the next turn's close combat phase (but the overrunning unit still counts as charging for combat res).
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Midfish
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#128 Post by Midfish »

AHA! Well... Son of a -------

Yeah, I see the wording a bit more clearly now about how it basically just acts as a pursuit. That seems...odd... Not to mention they made it so you can only overrun once... lame. =/

Well, you learn new little things every time you play and talk about it on forums, haha. Thanks.
Stormie
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#129 Post by Stormie »

Heh well clearly the whole point of the rule is to STOP people overrunning through their opponent's entire flank in one go, which is pretty fair if you think about it ;)
Arcsheild
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#130 Post by Arcsheild »

Can somebody please tell me how to use great eagles against skink heavy lizardmen? They get shot to pieces when ever play my friend :(
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#131 Post by Bolt Thrower »

Arcsheild wrote:Can somebody please tell me how to use great eagles against skink heavy lizardmen? They get shot to pieces when ever play my friend :(
I don't know if there is an answer to that one. Skinks can decimate eagles in one turn. It may be just one of those things we have to take. Or just hang them way back for a turn while your shooting/magic missile can thin down those skink units.

Or maybe a spell that cause the -1 to hit...from Heavens I think (don't have my book at the moment). That may cause the skinks to lose their poison and need 7's to hit.
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Kulgan
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#132 Post by Kulgan »

Arcsheild wrote:Can somebody please tell me how to use great eagles against skink heavy lizardmen? They get shot to pieces when ever play my friend :(
Stay back and then charge the same unit of Skinks with multiple Eagles. They can only stand and shoot at one Eagle, the others should arrive and win combat against the very weak skinks.

Remember they can only stand and shoot if you are in their frontal arc.
kubrick54
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#133 Post by kubrick54 »

Another trick I started using in my last 2 games (both against DE) is what I call my «spiky eagle». I use a Life Archmage and I use the «shield oh thorns» spell on my eagle. It can now deal extra damage, especially if I also use the «throne of vines spell». Here's my best result of both games:

Turn 2, his 2 remaining Dark riders are moved in front on my Lion chariot to prevent me from charging his 10 Cold one knights. I then try a risky «tip number 5» move by charging an eagle to the side of the cavalry and the chariot on the riders. Throne of vines being already on, I then proceed to cast enough spells to empty my opponent's pool. I then use Shield of Thorns on the eagle. I manage a good roll and kill 4 knights! In the following cc phase, my chariot kills of the riders and then proceed to overrun into the knights. My impact hits + attacks kills off another 4 knights, forcing them to flee and to get caught by the eagle. Quite the coup!
Cinanul
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#134 Post by Cinanul »

Hi, thanks for the thread and tactics. I hope to use all of them soon. I'm new to 8th edition and all these new terrain rules are giving me a nice surprise. I hope the tactic below works and helps.

The Terrain Tester
Is your Silver Helm bus thinking about running across that mysterious river or forest? Drop an eagle in it first and discover the mystery. Then find a different route for your units when the river turns out to be boiling flood.

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Collinisimo
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#135 Post by Collinisimo »

Arcsheild wrote:Can somebody please tell me how to use great eagles against skink heavy lizardmen? They get shot to pieces when ever play my friend :(
Avoid them. At all costs. You may have to take a round of shooting the first turn against scouting skinks, but there is little to nothing we can do about it.

If you really have to deal with them, pair the eagles up and place them facing the skinks within 10". They will most likely kill one, but your next turn you can charge with the remaining eagle (without stand and shoot because you are so close). Eagles do fairly well in combat against skinks.
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Stormie
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#136 Post by Stormie »

That wouldn't even work, as the Skinks can move before they shoot- march, even.
Carahil
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#137 Post by Carahil »

You can charge them with both eagles. One will almost certainly die but the other should smack skinks hard. However I'm not sure about the point efficiency of this move.

Better option might be just sitting back and shooting them to kingdom come or snap them with a fireball.
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Prince of Spires
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#138 Post by Prince of Spires »

Due to the nature and importance of Great Eagles this topic has been stickied.

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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#139 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

Some of the graphics in the redirecting thread could go in here.
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#140 Post by Prince of Spires »

I know. They are what gave rise to the revival of this thread in the first place. I've PM-ed collinisimo if he would want to have a look at them.

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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#141 Post by Collinisimo »

I updated the thread with Th3_5had0w_K1ng's run through on basic redirecting, from the "Redirecting?" thread. I also asked him if he could make any more of those nice Battle Chronicler diagrams, as they look much better than my cheesy text art.

@Heralds:

Thanks for the sticky!
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Curu Olannon
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#142 Post by Curu Olannon »

Any chance of you returning to HE soon Collinisimo?
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Collinisimo
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#143 Post by Collinisimo »

Not to clutter up the thread much, but I'm pretty happy with my Warriors of Chaos right now. Who knows about the High Elves! They were my first love playing miniature games, and they will always be waiting for me on my shelf.

*EDIT*

Updated with new images by Th3_5had0w_K1ng. Thanks!
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#144 Post by Furion »

Guess I can share with you one of the protips ;)

Safe long range charges
Image

Description: your White Lions are 15-17" away from enemy units. While charging at them would be glorious, your enemy has longer range than you. If you happened to fail, you would get charged by both of his units and then lose. What to do then? You have to plan one turn ahead. Position your eagle close to your unit, as per picture. In the following turn, declare a charge with your White Lions on enemy unit, make your opponent react and after all charges have been declared, roll for it. Now there are two options:
a) you rolled high and you are in! With a successful charge you can enter 1" within your unit and you go through.
b) you rolled not enough and you fail charge. With fail charge your unit can't enter <1" from other unit / impassable terrain. Therefore, your unit moves only a little bit (marked with a green line) With careful placement, it is possible that your unit won't even move at all!

That's it. Tell me if you like this short tactica :)

cheers
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Curu Olannon
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#145 Post by Curu Olannon »

Very good point Furion! I'll admit I've never tried this, I guess it's kind of situational. Another advantage of this tactic is that if he flees, for whatever reason, you can declare a second charge to force him further away.
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#146 Post by Ictoagn »

I'm not sold on that tactic. Even going off RAW, I'm not seeing anything that clearly says that the movement due to a failed charge isn't allowed to move within 1". They would probably end the move within 1", but then it doesn't have a clear ruling. If there's no clear ruling, most players (outside of tournament settings, at least) default to RAI. Going off only RAI, you would either ignore the 1" rule entirely or push the lions and eagle a little but so that they aren't within 1".
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#147 Post by Furion »

Ictoagn wrote:I'm not sold on that tactic. Even going off RAW, I'm not seeing anything that clearly says that the movement due to a failed charge isn't allowed to move within 1". They would probably end the move within 1", but then it doesn't have a clear ruling. If there's no clear ruling, most players (outside of tournament settings, at least) default to RAI. Going off only RAI, you would either ignore the 1" rule entirely or push the lions and eagle a little but so that they aren't within 1".
I don't discuss rulings on a public forum.
I suggest reading page 20, last paragraph of "move chargers".

What I explained here is perfectly within rules. Whole Europe and ETC part of USA agrees on that.

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Curu Olannon
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#148 Post by Curu Olannon »

Ictoagn - that is strictly against the rules. The rules say clearly that you're never allowed to enter within 1" of any other unit or impassable terrain except when charging. A failed charge is not 'charging', therefore the Lions stop. I see no rule allowing me to 'push other units a little as I please' to avoid the 1" problem.
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Jal
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#149 Post by Jal »

Furion/Curu are right - I used to use this alot with Harpies/Blackguard for much the same purpose. It did get some odd looks initially, but it's well within the rules
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Ictoagn
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Re: Great Eagle Tips and Tricks

#150 Post by Ictoagn »

I see, it's a difference of play setting, then. I play exclusively casually. The only tournaments I play in are in-store, with any rules disputes settled by someone at the next table. I can see how it would be that way in a tournament, but in another setting, don't be surprised if your opponent calls shenanigans. I know most of mine would.
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