New Mount: Great Phoenix

[kelevandros]

Cost 280
M WS BS S T I A W LD
2 4 0 4 4 4 2 5 10

Special Rules
Fly: Large Target Cause Fear 5+ Ward Save


Fiery Contrails: Any unit passed Over by the great Phoenix during the movement phase suffers D6 Strength 3 flaming hits, distributed as shooting.

Fiery Rebirth: the great phoenix is immune to all fire attacks, instead if the Great Phoenix is hit with any attacked labeled as flaming, it gains one wound. Note this wound can exceed the number of wounds on the profile.

[kourosh]

Great Beast to mount i would prefer this than using the Dragons ^^
I hope it's not only restricted to the Phoenix King and Phoenix Lords.
Somehow i feel Caradryan would bound to him a lot.

Could it's friend use fire attacks to him to heal him.
causing fear i think he should causing Terror instead
(what will you do if something born in pure fire charging to you)

[elarhain]

I don't think that Ld 10 is necessary.
After all, even stellar dragons have Ld9, and if it's a mount it would be mostly using the lord's Ld (I suppose it's only for lords, I don't see nobles getting their hands on one of those

I also agree that terror would be more appropriate. Although I can see that you tried to keep him balanced, you just have to admit that fear isn't enough: PG have fear. Phoenixes should have terror.

One more thing: how the hell do you ride a phoenix? it's pure fire! as a rare unit why not, but our lords would simply burn themselves if they tried. I think there was a topic on hammer and anvil about a phoenix that looked fun to play (I don't think it got sealed though). And anyway there aren't that many of the creatures left so I don't think it should be taken to battle ridden by anything other than the king himself.

the points look ok. Have you playtested it yet?

[WarpPhoenix]

In a lot of tales of a phoenix its fires only burn those it means to, usually the phoenix has control over who it burns, which is why LD 8+ is needed, its a very aware mythical beast. Phoenixs dont really seem to be just a monster in all accounts, they never die completely so if there was a phoenix it would have been around since it was created, meaning a very smart monster indeed.

I agree on the Terror but being a phoenix I do think we should take from the fan based Cathay army book and throw it a regen instead of the gain a wound thing, but still make it immune to fire so it can never lose its regen (and of course take away the ward save).

I like the contrails idea but as some people have pointed out the rider might be burned if it wernt for the phoenix's control over its flames, perhaps this could only happen to one unit per turn and make it only hurt enemy units? I could see the phoenix just flying back and forth over a field of black gurad and pushing out 2 or 3 models a turn from each unit of dark elves, or any T3 model.

for 80 points less you could take a griffon which is better in combat but less durable, I think you've paid your points for the trade so giving something else ontop of that would be nice too? Perhaps bring the stateline upto the griffon with WS, S and T all at 5.

I really really like the whole phoenix idea (as my name suggests) I'm a big fan of the phoenix so keep the ideas rolling!

[Maxwell123]

Pretty good, although I'd prefer different stats and a slightly different feel for the Phoenix..one I think it more in line with the whole mythology of the Phoenix. There are three primary traits for the phoenix in mythology:
1. Creatures of fire and magic
2. They are reborn when they die
3. They are the incredibly fast - much faster than any Eagle or Dragon

PHOENIX

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
2 6 0 4 4 4 8 3 9

Special Rules

Fly; Terror; 6+ ward save; Regenerate; Magic Resistance (2); Always Strike First

Creature of Fire: The Phoenix is a creature of fire and magic. All attacks made by the Phoenix count as magical and flaming attacks. In addition, the Phoenix is completely immune to all Flaming attacks.

Rebirth: When a Phoenix is killed, it will come back to life. The opposing player will earn Victory points for killing the Phoenix the first time as normal, but at the start of the next High Elf turn it will be reborn with its full amount of Wounds at any point within 6" of where it was killed and may then immediately perform actions in that turn (including declaring charges, etc). If the Phoenix is killed a second time, the opposing player will earn additional Victory Points for killing it again.

Fiery Aura: Any model in base contact with a Phoenix, either friend or foe, will suffer a Strength 3 flaming hit at the start of each close combat phase, before any other attacks are allocated. Roll to wound and resolve saves in the normal way. Any unsaved wounds caused by this attack will count toward combat resolution. This also means if any friendly models are in base contact and suffer an unsaved wound, then it will count toward the opponent's combat score for the phase.

Due to this Aura, a Phoenix may only be ridden safely by a character with immunity to flaming attacks. Otherwise, the rider suffers a Strength 4 flaming hit at the start of EACH Magic, Shooting and Close Combat phase. This means if the rider is not immune to flaming attacks, he will suffer a total of 3 Strength 4 flaming hits in every turn, both your own and your opponent's.

[kourosh]

It's also known as a sentient being it's very aware of it's self and the world it's intelligent probably match or over the mind of dragon and being a creature born from flame and light he was the true enemy to anything born from darkness who's it's nemesis. it's probably hate Lich, Wraith, Vampire, Druchii, Slannesh, etc

He would probably act as Great Eagle or War Eagle but if someone would actually want to ride on itHe must use an Amulet of Fire by default necessity .

Rebirth Rules will make him cost a lot. I think it's must use a dice to summon it again. He never die make him the winner by last man standing rule.

[elarhain]

Agreed, rebirth shouldn't be so powerful, maybe on a roll at the beginning of the turn, and only regains 1 wound. I'd also drop the ward save or the regenerate, probably the ward (other than being a magical creature I can't see how to justify it) cause otherwise it'd be impossible to kill. MR 2 is nice but ASF is kinda wierd. I don't see how you can make it faster than eagles otherwise though.

Perhaps add in a fire breathing attack, along with the fiery contrails and terror you have the perfect mount to annoy, delay and weaken your ennemy before he reaches your front lines. It would be less of a combat unit than a hinderance, in which case it's stats should be closer to that of an eagle than of a griffon

And yeah i guess that a lord with dragon armour should be immune to phoenix flames.

that would add up to something like:

Phoenix
a lord with dragon armor can pick a phoenix as a mount
Cost 280
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
2 5 0 4 4 4 7 3 9

Special Rules
Fly, Large Target,Terror, regenerate, flaming attacks

Fiery Contrails: Any unit passed Over by the great Phoenix during the movement phase suffers D6 Strength 3 flaming hits, distributed as shooting.

Fiery Rebirth: the great phoenix is immune to all fire attacks. When killed roll a D6 on each of your following turns, revived with 1 wound on 5+


for inspiration: phoenix at hammer and anvil

[Maxwell123]

Agreed, rebirth shouldn't be so powerful, maybe on a roll at the beginning of the turn, and only regains 1 wound. I'd also drop the ward save or the regenerate, probably the ward (other than being a magical creature I can't see how to justify it) cause otherwise it'd be impossible to kill. MR 2 is nice but ASF is kinda wierd. I don't see how you can make it faster than eagles otherwise though.

Perhaps add in a fire breathing attack, along with the fiery contrails and terror you have the perfect mount to annoy, delay and weaken your ennemy before he reaches your front lines. It would be less of a combat unit than a hinderance, in which case it's stats should be closer to that of an eagle than of a griffon

And yeah i guess that a lord with dragon armour should be immune to phoenix flames.

that would add up to something like:

Phoenix
a lord with dragon armor can pick a phoenix as a mount
Cost 280
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
2 5 0 4 4 4 7 3 9

Special Rules
Fly, Large Target,Terror, regenerate, flaming attacks

Fiery Contrails: Any unit passed Over by the great Phoenix during the movement phase suffers D6 Strength 3 flaming hits, distributed as shooting.

Fiery Rebirth: the great phoenix is immune to all fire attacks. When killed roll a D6 on each of your following turns, revived with 1 wound on 5+


for inspiration: phoenix at hammer and anvil

Personally, I still like my version better. A 6+ ward isn't very powerful..hardly going to make the Phoenix "impossible to kill", especially considering it has NO armour save and only a 4+ regeneration save.

As for the rebirth..I think it needs to be potentially more than 1 wound for the rebirth to have any real impact...a potential to revive with 1 wound on a 5+??? Worthless.
I probably gave it one too many starting wounds admittedly. Basically, I think a Phoenix should be a creature available as either a Rare and Special choice or as a Hero mount and be around the 150pts mark. A Phoenix shouldn't be a Great Eagle with flaming attacks. It should be somewhere in between a Great Eagle and Griffon in combat attack power, but also have some truly unique features not shared by the other 2 birdlike mounts (Great Eagles, Griffons).
I don't think Phoenixes should be Large Targets either. They really aren't that much bigger than an Eagle and I've never imagined Phoenixes to be as big as Griffons or Dragons, etc, nor have I seen anything in mythology or fantasy lore to depict them as being especially huge.

I also think the Fiery Contralis is a bit too powerful. That's essentially a free, non-dispellable S3 Fireball each time the Phoenix flies over an enemy unit. Also, we have dragons for shooting fiery attacks. With the nature of the Phoenix, I think it makes more sense for its aura to burn creatures near it, rather than shooting balls of fire. They aren't really firebreathers in the way dragons are. They operate differently and its their aura that does the damage.

How about this?

PHOENIX 250pts

Unridden Phoenix can be taken..counts as a Rare and a Special choice. Otherwise can be ridden by Lord characters.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
2 6 0 4 4 3 8 3 9

Special Rules

Fly; Terror; 6+ ward save; Regenerate; Magic Resistance (2)

Creature of Fire: The Phoenix is a creature of fire and magic. All attacks made by the Phoenix count as magical and flaming attacks. In addition, the Phoenix is completely immune to all Flaming attacks.

Rebirth: When a Phoenix is killed, it will come back to life. The opposing player will earn Victory points for killing the Phoenix the first time as normal, but at the start of the next High Elf turn it will be reborn with D3 Wounds at any point within 6" of where it was killed and may then immediately perform actions in that turn (including declaring charges, etc). If the Phoenix is killed a second time, the opposing player will earn additional Victory Points for killing it again.

Fiery Aura: Any model in base contact with a Phoenix, either friend or foe, will suffer a Strength 3 flaming hit at the start of each close combat phase, before any other attacks are allocated. Roll to wound and resolve saves in the normal way. Any unsaved wounds caused by this attack will count toward combat resolution. This also means if any friendly models are in base contact and suffer an unsaved wound, then it will count toward the opponent's combat score for the phase.

Due to this Aura, a Phoenix may only be ridden safely by a character with immunity to flaming attacks. Otherwise, the rider suffers a Strength 5 magical flaming hit at the start of EACH Magic, Shooting and Close Combat phase.

Phoenix Tears: If the Phoenix is mounted and its rider is injured, the Phoenix will attempt to heal the wound. For each unsaved wound suffered by a character riding a Phoenix, roll a D6. On the roll of a 6+, the wound is healed. Note that a Phoenix may never heal more than one wound in any one turn and may never take the character past its starting Wounds value.

[WarpPhoenix]

I dont think the mount should just demolish anyone in contact with it, I think it should be more like;

Blistering Heat: Everyone in base to base contact is at a -1 to hit agaisnt the phoenix and its rider.

It shows that a creature of pure fire is hurting the unit while not making it just destroy the front rank of a unit. If you start wondering into that territory you start becoming daemon-esk in your special rules. And no one likes fighting daemons ;p

[Maxwell123]

I dont think the mount should just demolish anyone in contact with it, I think it should be more like;

Blistering Heat: Everyone in base to base contact is at a -1 to hit agaisnt the phoenix and its rider.

It shows that a creature of pure fire is hurting the unit while not making it just destroy the front rank of a unit. If you start wondering into that territory you start becoming daemon-esk in your special rules. And no one likes fighting daemons ;p

Hmm...that's an interesting idea actually.

[Chracian]

According to various myths, the phoenix is reborn only when it is at the end of its natural lifespan, so I don't think it should be reborn if killed in combat. Also,what happens to the character riding the phoenix if it dies and is then reborn? I think regeneration and immunity to flaming attacks covers it. Perhaps immunity to non-magical attacks?

[WarpPhoenix]

If we're going to go straight up on the myths then the Phoenix is ethereal and when its rider is hurt will cry tears that will heal the warrior of all its wounds.

The phoenix myth is very powerful since the phoenix isnt supposed to be a killable monster. But you have to toen it down a bit and give some compensation in the form of regen.

Although in gaming terms I also agree that it shouldnt come back to life, perhaps it may come back to life later but a phoenix doesnt just burst into flames within 10 seconds of it being killed and rising from the grave to fight once more. Regen more than covers its survivablity. Most monsters dont have better than a 4+ scaly skin which is modified by armour so giving the phoenix a regen that cant be taken away is horrifically good, its like a hydra without the hydras weakness to flaming attacks, and can fly.

Heres what I have in mind for a phoenix;

Phoenix - 250 (Can be taken as a mount taking an extra hero slot or a rare)

M WS BS S T W I A LD
2 5 0 5 5 5 7 5 8

Special rules: Regeneration, Terror, Immune to Psychology, Stubborn (something has to make it appealing, and a phoenix is usually hardened and will refuse to leave because of its knowloedge of self reincarnation)

Blistering Heat: All models in base to base contact are at a -1 to hit the phoenix and its rider

Dont touch: Only models with dragon armour may ride the phoenix. Any model that successfully causes a wound (after saves) to the phoenix will take a strength 2 flaming hit.

Ok maybe not 250 maybe 300 im just sore over the price of a hydra ;p

[kelevandros]

Cost 280
M WS BS S T I A W LD
2 5 0 4 4 5 2 5 10

Special Rules
Fly, Large target
Cause Terror, 5+ Ward Save

Asuryan's Chosen Symbol : The great phoenix is a living symbol of Asuryan. Any High elf model that can draw line of sight to the Great Phoenix may re-roll all failed leadership checks..

Fiery Demise. If the Great Phoenix is reduced to zero wounds, every model in base contact with the great phoenix suffers a strength 4 flaming hit.

[kourosh]

The Great Phoenix is a Legendary Epic Creature
Cost 340pt + taken 1 additional hero slot

M|WS|BS|S|T|W| I |A|LD
2 | 6 | 0 | 5|5| 5|8 |3|10

Unmounted Phoenix can be taken counts as a Hero. Otherwise can be mounted by Lord characters

Special Rules
Fly, Large target, Cause Terror,
Regeneration, 5+ Ward Save, Magic Resistance(2), Speed of Asuryan

Main Rules
Avatar of Asuryan: The Great Phoenix is an Avatar of Asuryan it bring the divine presence of the God Asuryan to the world. Any High elf model that can draw line of sight to the Great Phoenix may re-roll all failed leadership checks and any Phoenix Guard who draw a line of sight to the Great Phoenix will filled with godly courage they will become Unbreakable units.

Wrath of Asuryan : If the Great Phoenix is reduced to zero wounds, every model in base contact with the Great Phoenix suffers a strength 4 flaming hit and and those whoever dare to slain him will suffer D6 wounds without armor saving allowed . The Great Phoenix is an Avatar of the God Asuryan whoever slain him would suffer the Wrath of Asuryan

Phoenix Divine Love: If the Phoenix is mounted and its rider is injured, the Phoenix will attempt to heal the wound. For each unsaved wound suffered by a character riding a Phoenix, roll a D6. On the roll of a 6+, the wound is healed. Note that a Phoenix may never heal more than one wound in any one turn and may never take the character past its starting Wounds value. The Phoenix Enchanted songs are known able to heal wound and sickness so it may heal the wound and cure poison.

Additional Rules
Immortal Reincarnation: When a Phoenix is killed, it will come return to life by a roll of D6 on each of your following turns, revived with 1 wound on 4+ at any point within 6" of where it was killed . The opposing player will earn Victory points for killing the Phoenix the first time as normal and if the Phoenix is killed a second time, the opposing player will earn additional Victory Points for killing it again.

Creature of Fire: The Great Phoenix is a creature of fire and magic. All attacks made by the Phoenix count as magical and flaming attacks. In addition, the Phoenix is completely immune to all Flaming attacks

Blistering Fiery Aura: Any model in base contact with the Great Phoenix, either friend or foe, will suffer a Strength 3 flaming hit at the start of each close combat phase, before any other attacks are allocated. Roll to wound and resolve saves in the normal way. Any unsaved wounds caused by this attack will count toward combat resolution. This also means if any friendly models are in base contact and suffer an unsaved wound, then it will count toward the opponent's combat score for the phase. Due to this Aura, a Phoenix may only be ridden safely by a character with immunity to flaming attacks. Otherwise, the rider suffers a Strength 5 magical flaming hit at the start of EACH Magic, Shooting and Close Combat phase.

It's recommended that any Lord who want to mount the Great Phoenix to wear:
Princes : Dragon Armor 9pt
Archmages & Princes : Armour of Caledor 25pt or Amulet of fire 20pt

PS: if the phoenix is only use only it's main rules without addional rules it's cost 279pt only and act as a rare choice

[Crawd]

280 points for a mount with a ward save, regen and a rebirth hability? Sorry but a dragon may go back to sleep at this cost... Remove the regen and it would be fine because I don't see why a Phoenix should have regen, it doesn't fit the Phoenix at all...

[Maxwell123]

280 points for a mount with a ward save, regen and a rebirth hability? Sorry but a dragon may go back to sleep at this cost... Remove the regen and it would be fine because I don't see why a Phoenix should have regen, it doesn't fit the Phoenix at all...

Of course Regeneration suits the Phoenix. It's a creature that can both heal itself and heal others.

[Crawd]

Of course Regeneration suits the Phoenix. It's a creature that can both heal itself and heal others.

It depends on where you take the description of the Phoenix because in some you can see this, in other you can read that it consume itself until it dies and 3 days after, at the dawn, it rise again, etc.

[Malhandir's Feed]

The Wrath of Asuryan is for Carrie and Carrie alone!!!!!!!!! I like all of these, I don't know which is best?

[kourosh]

280 points for a mount with a ward save, regen and a rebirth hability? Sorry but a dragon may go back to sleep at this cost... Remove the regen and it would be fine because I don't see why a Phoenix should have regen, it doesn't fit the Phoenix at all...

I agreed may dragon sleep forever ^^

[Allerion]

Remove the regen and it would be fine because I don't see why a Phoenix should have regen, it doesn't fit the Phoenix at all...

are you familiar with phoenixes? cause at the end of their life, they burst into flame, and are "born again" in the ashes.

[kourosh]

Yes i am born as a Rooster Aries at Thursday and i happen have been in Astrological research for at least 4 years. I am fascinated by Phoenix(bird of Fire) since birth. I collected stories and myth about it. I love them as i love my self it part of my very Soul.

I found that
Snake are Symbol of Desert, Bull is symbol of Valley and Rooster/Bird is symbol of Mountain
Bird of Fire is a symbol of Volcano

Those is Volcano lived for Thousand of years grew into giant monstrous Titan rich in Power and Rich (active volcano known have rich deposit of Gold/Metal & Diamond/Gemstone in it cooled fiery veins)
Its lived for ages with Thunder as is voices and Fire as is Wrath. When it died it's blew the World in Burning Inferno destroy everything to Ashes and from this Ashes a would be Volcano is born it's would be Dormant for century until it's awaken again and Grew again this cycle is repeated for millenniums. A Phoenix Queen is married by Dragon King in Chinese like a Dragon protected Volcano for it's wealth. Dragon is symbol of Power of the Sky in form of Rain or Meteor.

Many Nation is build by the sign of Phoenix is mostly mean the Country believe their Nation will be strong and Live Long to Last for Millennium as it gifted with Strong defense as Mountain is a Natural Fortress and it give Riches as it given them gold/other precious metals/gems to pay their citizen and iron/hard metal to Arm their soldiers with Weapons(Axes,Spear, Swords, Arrows, Guns, Cannon etc) and Protected them (Shield, Armor, Tank, etc) and give the Mobility in form of (Chariot, Car, Tank, Train, Ship (the brightest star of constellation of Phoenix is known as Anka in Arabic mean as Ship), Plane, Jet and Rocket) and Place to stay as a Cave or stone to build Home (houses, tower, fortress, castle, building) . Diamond is also consider as the most beautiful children of Volcano become symbol of Marriage so one day the couples hope one day they may have a child bright as a Diamond.

Most country that have symbol of bird commonly have some connection of a rich Gold/Precious Gem/Metal Mines. Birds also the fastest to run when volcano explode and return to having the barbecued meals for dinner..... they have a lot of fun near a Volcano.

The Star Anka is symbolize the angel of Fire/Light Uriel who warn Noah for the oncoming flood or Prometheus (the Giver of Fire) to Daedalus as The Phoenix constellation is one in line with the star Aries in it's south and separated by Cetus (the sea monster) the symbol of flood

Do i know Phoenix? With My Hearth, Life and Soul
So i will love Asuryan with it's Phoenix
Phoenix Guard is favorite Soldiers and Caradyran is my Hero
to bad there is no Phoenix to field

[Alathenar]

The Great Phoenix is a Legendary Epic Creature
Cost 340pt + taken 1 additional hero slot

M|WS|BS|S|T|W| I |A|LD
2 | 6 | 0 | 5|5| 5|8 |3|10

Unmounted Phoenix can be taken counts as a Hero. Otherwise can be mounted by Lord characters

Special Rules
Fly, Large target, Cause Terror,
Regeneration, 5+ Ward Save, Magic Resistance(2), Speed of Asuryan

Main Rules
Avatar of Asuryan: The Great Phoenix is an Avatar of Asuryan it bring the divine presence of the God Asuryan to the world. Any High elf model that can draw line of sight to the Great Phoenix may re-roll all failed leadership checks and any Phoenix Guard who draw a line of sight to the Great Phoenix will filled with godly courage they will become Unbreakable units.

Wrath of Asuryan : If the Great Phoenix is reduced to zero wounds, every model in base contact with the Great Phoenix suffers a strength 4 flaming hit and and those whoever dare to slain him will suffer D6 wounds without armor saving allowed . The Great Phoenix is an Avatar of the God Asuryan whoever slain him would suffer the Wrath of Asuryan

Phoenix Divine Love: If the Phoenix is mounted and its rider is injured, the Phoenix will attempt to heal the wound. For each unsaved wound suffered by a character riding a Phoenix, roll a D6. On the roll of a 6+, the wound is healed. Note that a Phoenix may never heal more than one wound in any one turn and may never take the character past its starting Wounds value. The Phoenix Enchanted songs are known able to heal wound and sickness so it may heal the wound and cure poison.

Additional Rules
Immortal Reincarnation: When a Phoenix is killed, it will come return to life by a roll of D6 on each of your following turns, revived with 1 wound on 4+ at any point within 6" of where it was killed . The opposing player will earn Victory points for killing the Phoenix the first time as normal and if the Phoenix is killed a second time, the opposing player will earn additional Victory Points for killing it again.

Creature of Fire: The Great Phoenix is a creature of fire and magic. All attacks made by the Phoenix count as magical and flaming attacks. In addition, the Phoenix is completely immune to all Flaming attacks

Blistering Fiery Aura: Any model in base contact with the Great Phoenix, either friend or foe, will suffer a Strength 3 flaming hit at the start of each close combat phase, before any other attacks are allocated. Roll to wound and resolve saves in the normal way. Any unsaved wounds caused by this attack will count toward combat resolution. This also means if any friendly models are in base contact and suffer an unsaved wound, then it will count toward the opponent's combat score for the phase. Due to this Aura, a Phoenix may only be ridden safely by a character with immunity to flaming attacks. Otherwise, the rider suffers a Strength 5 magical flaming hit at the start of EACH Magic, Shooting and Close Combat phase.

It's recommended that any Lord who want to mount the Great Phoenix to wear:
Princes : Dragon Armor 9pt
Archmages & Princes : Armour of Caledor 25pt or Amulet of fire 20pt

This for me is the best description of a Phoenix and i would love to use this in a game.