2500 dragon lord list

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FrasseN
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:45 pm

2500 dragon lord list

#1 Post by FrasseN »

Hello, I just made this list going up against either dwarves, skaven or VC. I have never actually managed to make a decent list with a monster in the previous edition, but I hope that maybe now that warmachines are somewhat less powerful it can be interesting. If someone has an opinion on this I would be grateful! :)

Lords:
High prince, general
light armour
ogre sword
charm of cursed iron
Ancient dragon
545 points

Archmage lvl 4 nature
dispel scroll
talisman of supreme shielding
300 pts

Heroes:
Commander, high warden of the flame, BSB
heavy armor
hardened shield
Kingslayer
205 pts

Core:
27x spearmen, heavy armor, full command

5x Elein reavers, bows

10x highborn lancers, full command, barding
642 pts

Special:
20x flame wardens,, full command, banner of ryma

22x white lions, full command, banner of becalming, screaming swords on champion
708 pts

rare:
Great eagle
Great eagle
100 pts

So the idea I have for this list is that I am going to stick both my characters on foot in to the white lions deployed 6x4, this will be my main combat block. The eagles and the reaver knights will be my chaff/redirectors and maybe if necesarry warmachine hunters. The flame wardens are just to add a couple of bodies that can last long in the heat of battle while also delivering some decent damge on the charge (banner of ryma). My lord and the silverhelms will be my heavy hitting flankers that can save the day when the footfolk are deply dug in to the battle. I was thinking also that the archmage would be able to maybe regrow a couple of white lions or PG and also maybe heal the dragon lord with lore attribute, the commander I kitted out so that if he gets stuck in challenge he might win over another hero.

Any proffesional advise? :D
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
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Location: Otherworld

Re: 2500 dragon lord list

#2 Post by SpellArcher »

FrasseN wrote:Any proffesional advise?
Lol, I can give some unprofessional advice!

:)

Characters look solid as far as I can tell. I'm a bit suspicious of the Lancers because lacking characters, they don't hit that hard. Going 2x5 could be worth it because that gives you more (fast) scoring units. I'm also unsure about the Flame Wardens. They'll hit very hard on the charge but at M5, how often will that be?

The list has three infantry blocks. One knock-on effect of that is a lack of shooting. I feel it could do with at least some, if only to remove enemy redirectors. The second impact is a lack of fast, hard threats to support the dragon. I'd be tempted to drop the Flame Wardens for Knights of Ryma and maybe a Phoenix. Core could be re-jigged to get some Archers in or RBT (possibly Sisters) if you can find non-Core points.
espn
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:01 am

Re: 2500 dragon lord list

#3 Post by espn »

Hi,

I agree with spellarcher on the helms and the banner on the flame wardens. I have tried banner of ryma on a few occasions my self, and it is far from given that you will get the charge. Personally, I have had better experience with rending banner. This will usually give you 2+ and 4+ vs T4 and then -2 AP which is pretty decent for a unit that is supposed to be your tank.

On your dragon lord. I am not 100 % sure on this, but the Charm of Cursed Iron affects the bearer and the bearer's unit. For any AS or WS to affect a ridden monster, it has to be "the bearers model" or something like that. It means that a prince on an elven horse will get the 5+ WS, but not if he's on a monster.
FrasseN
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: 2500 dragon lord list

#4 Post by FrasseN »

SpellArcher wrote:
FrasseN wrote:Any proffesional advise?
Lol, I can give some unprofessional advice!

:)

Characters look solid as far as I can tell. I'm a bit suspicious of the Lancers because lacking characters, they don't hit that hard. Going 2x5 could be worth it because that gives you more (fast) scoring units. I'm also unsure about the Flame Wardens. They'll hit very hard on the charge but at M5, how often will that be?

The list has three infantry blocks. One knock-on effect of that is a lack of shooting. I feel it could do with at least some, if only to remove enemy redirectors. The second impact is a lack of fast, hard threats to support the dragon. I'd be tempted to drop the Flame Wardens for Knights of Ryma and maybe a Phoenix. Core could be re-jigged to get some Archers in or RBT (possibly Sisters) if you can find non-Core points.
Thx for your so called "unprofessional" but very thoughtful and good advice! ;)

So I made 2 new lists that I think might work from what you said, maybe you have time you can look at these.

Alternative 1

Lords:
High prince, general
light armour
ogre sword
charm of cursed iron
Ancient dragon
545 points

Archmage lvl 4 nature
dispel scroll
talisman of supreme shielding
300 pts

Heroes:
Commander, high warden of the flame, BSB
heavy armor
hardened shield
Kingslayer
205 pts

Core:
29x spearelves, heavy armour, full command, gleaming pendant
2x5 elein reavers, bows
5x high lancers champion, barding

Special:
6x knights of ryma, champion, devestating charge
26 lion guards, full command, banner of becalming
611pts

rare:
Eagle
2x bolt throwers
210pts

2500pts

Alternative 2
Lords:
High prince, general
light armour
ogre sword
charm of cursed iron
Ancient dragon
545 points

Archmage lvl 4 nature
dispel scroll
talisman of supreme shielding
300 pts

Heroes:
Commander, high warden of the flame, BSB
heavy armor
hardened shield
Kingslayer
205 pts

Core:
2x10 archers, musician
30 spears, full command, heavy armour
5x elein reavers, bows
625pts

Special:
5x Knights of ryma, champion, devestating charge
22x lion guard, full command, banner of becalming
523 pts

rare:
frost heart phoenix
eagle
eagle
300pts

2498pts

So to sum these 2 lists up quickly, both are more fast hitting lists that my previous one I think. I took your advice and I came up with the idea to either go with bolt throwers or archers as for shooting, both might work but I actually prefer bolt throwers since they hit harder in case I want to shoot out t4 or higher units. But I thnk both lists might work and have different advantages aswell as disadvantages, especially since one has access to more hard hitting phoenix while the other might be more balanced in the regard that it has a little bit more diversity maybe, any opinion on this would be great! :)
FrasseN
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: 2500 dragon lord list

#5 Post by FrasseN »

espn wrote:Hi,

I agree with spellarcher on the helms and the banner on the flame wardens. I have tried banner of ryma on a few occasions my self, and it is far from given that you will get the charge. Personally, I have had better experience with rending banner. This will usually give you 2+ and 4+ vs T4 and then -2 AP which is pretty decent for a unit that is supposed to be your tank.

On your dragon lord. I am not 100 % sure on this, but the Charm of Cursed Iron affects the bearer and the bearer's unit. For any AS or WS to affect a ridden monster, it has to be "the bearers model" or something like that. It means that a prince on an elven horse will get the 5+ WS, but not if he's on a monster.
Yes, I think you are right in this matter, rending banner is probably far more useful on PG. It used to be my "must have" choice against t4 armies. (I actually thought that it was removed in the 9th age.)

Okey, I see that this might be the thing here, I am going to ask my freinds about it before the game and see what they have to say about it, so we can rule it with the "house rules" ;)
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: 2500 dragon lord list

#6 Post by SpellArcher »

FrasseN wrote:Thx for your so called "unprofessional" but very thoughtful and good advice!
You're welcome FrasseN.

Both lists look decent to me. Only suggestion would be to get standards on the Knights and Lancers so they count as scoring units.
espn
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:01 am

Re: 2500 dragon lord list

#7 Post by espn »

I like these lists as well but here are some things to consider:

-Gleaming robe on your archmage instead of talisman of supreme shielding. It is 5 points cheaper and gives you 2+ WS against everything but magical attacks.
-3+ AS on your BSP will make him an attractive target, and with 2 wounds, really easy to kill.
-I see you write barding on your high lancers. Please be aware that HBE do not lose movement for the 5+ MP.
-Again on the charm of cursed iron. The more I think of it, the more I am sure that this will not work on ridden monsters. The rules are quite clear on the difference between "the bearer" and "the bearer's model". So if you use this list in a tournament, it will be points out of the window.
-gleaming pendant. I can't find this item. Is it gleaming icon? If so, it is a really good banner to have on your spearmen.
wisetiger7
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:26 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA

Re: 2500 dragon lord list

#8 Post by wisetiger7 »

espn wrote:-Again on the charm of cursed iron. The more I think of it, the more I am sure that this will not work on ridden monsters. The rules are quite clear on the difference between "the bearer" and "the bearer's model". So if you use this list in a tournament, it will be points out of the window.
Personally, I think the Charm of Cursed Iron would cover the monster as well.

Charm of Cursed Iron (Page 109, BRB)
"The Bearer and its unit have a Ward Save (5+) against Wounds caused by Artillery Weapons."

Units (Page 6, BRB)
"All models are part of a unit. A unit is either a group of models deployed in a formation consisting of ranks... and files... or a single model operating on its own. Whenever a rule, ability, spell and so on affects a unit, all models in the unit are affected..."

Ridden Monster's Profile (Page 67, BRB)
"Armour and Saves: Use the saves of the Monster. Any armour equipment worn by the rider or its Ward/Regeneration Save have no effect, unless noted otherwise..."


Yes, the monster doesn't benefit from its rider's Ward or Regen - unless noted otherwise. The Units rules state that all models are part of a unit, even single models. That means the monster is in the same unit as the rider or "bearer". The Charm gives the bearer and its unit the Ward Save. The monster is in the same unit, as the model (as a whole) is a unit. Therefore, the monster benefits from the Charm.

I've thought about this a lot regarding Magic Resistance, and I feel that the same argument could be used for both.

wise
thelordcal wrote:Or he uses his big a$$ banner pole as a great weapon...
wisetiger7 wrote:That's what she said.
Asurion Whitestar wrote:I would normally delete such an off topic post, but this is just too good. Classic..!! :)
FrasseN
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: 2500 dragon lord list

#9 Post by FrasseN »

espn wrote:I like these lists as well but here are some things to consider:

-Gleaming robe on your archmage instead of talisman of supreme shielding. It is 5 points cheaper and gives you 2+ WS against everything but magical attacks.
-3+ AS on your BSP will make him an attractive target, and with 2 wounds, really easy to kill.
-I see you write barding on your high lancers. Please be aware that HBE do not lose movement for the 5+ MP.
-Again on the charm of cursed iron. The more I think of it, the more I am sure that this will not work on ridden monsters. The rules are quite clear on the difference between "the bearer" and "the bearer's model". So if you use this list in a tournament, it will be points out of the window.
-gleaming pendant. I can't find this item. Is it gleaming icon? If so, it is a really good banner to have on your spearmen.
Yes I shall consider giving him the gleaming robe :)
Bsb also has 4 up ward since he has the high warden of the flame honour, so I think he'd be decently survivble.
Yes, thats true! :D
I think this might be the case, so I think I will just remove it.
It's the gleaming icon :)

thanks for your advice! :wink:
FrasseN
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: 2500 dragon lord list

#10 Post by FrasseN »

wisetiger7 wrote:
espn wrote:-Again on the charm of cursed iron. The more I think of it, the more I am sure that this will not work on ridden monsters. The rules are quite clear on the difference between "the bearer" and "the bearer's model". So if you use this list in a tournament, it will be points out of the window.
Personally, I think the Charm of Cursed Iron would cover the monster as well.

Charm of Cursed Iron (Page 109, BRB)
"The Bearer and its unit have a Ward Save (5+) against Wounds caused by Artillery Weapons."

Units (Page 6, BRB)
"All models are part of a unit. A unit is either a group of models deployed in a formation consisting of ranks... and files... or a single model operating on its own. Whenever a rule, ability, spell and so on affects a unit, all models in the unit are affected..."

Ridden Monster's Profile (Page 67, BRB)
"Armour and Saves: Use the saves of the Monster. Any armour equipment worn by the rider or its Ward/Regeneration Save have no effect, unless noted otherwise..."


Yes, the monster doesn't benefit from its rider's Ward or Regen - unless noted otherwise. The Units rules state that all models are part of a unit, even single models. That means the monster is in the same unit as the rider or "bearer". The Charm gives the bearer and its unit the Ward Save. The monster is in the same unit, as the model (as a whole) is a unit. Therefore, the monster benefits from the Charm.

I've thought about this a lot regarding Magic Resistance, and I feel that the same argument could be used for both.

wise
Interesting, most likely gonna ask my friend before the game so we can come to our conclusion. Your argument seems valid, since if you think about it they probably made it so that you can have the item for both rank and file models aswell as for mounts and since they didn't specify which it got confusing. But then again I am just specualting. #-o
Ferny
9th Age Moderator
Posts: 1906
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Re: 2500 dragon lord list

#11 Post by Ferny »

Pretty sure the icon can be used on monsters.
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espn
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:01 am

Re: 2500 dragon lord list

#12 Post by espn »

Ferny wrote:Pretty sure the icon can be used on monsters.
Alright, I am glad to be proven wrong. This makes it a very powerful item to have on the dragon lord.
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