PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

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PadForce
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PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

#1 Post by PadForce »

Hi all, hope everyone is well.

Been a while since i posted so i thought i would pop my newly redrafted v1 lists here. The aim is to playtest both this saturday and over the next month before deciding what to take to the Bristol Call to Arms tournament at the start of July.

Both lists have a similar core of Nature Lvl4 + swordmasters, but one runs a tooled up Prince of Ryma / banner of ryma cav bus (s6 m10 silver helms yes please!), whilst the other goes with a lion chariot bsb.

As always keen for comments!

Cheers,

PadForce

List 1: Lion Chariot BSB

Lord
Archmage, nature, lvl 4, Gleaming robes, book of arcane power 310

Heroes
Commander, Royal Huntsman, Lion chariot, bsb, banner of speed, lance, heavy armour, longbow, divine icon, lucky shield, lucky charm, 267
Mage, alchemy, scroll 105

Core
25 Seaguard, musician, standard, 320
5 Elein Reavers, bows, 90
10 Highborn lancers, banner, +1M banner, 215

Special
5 Dragon Princes, Champion, flaming lance, standard, war banner of ryma, devastating charge, 220
24 Swordmasters, FC, Rending banner, 373
2 Lion Chariots 200

Rare
Fire Phoenix, 160
3 Repeater bolt throwers, 240

Total 2500


List 2: Cav Bus

Lords
High Prince, Prince of Ryma (Horse), 5+ mounts protection, dragonforged armour, shield, giant sword, dragon helm, duskstone, 295
Archmage, nature, lvl 4, Gleaming robes (ethereal), book of arcane power 310

Heroes
Commander, Horse 5+ mounts protection, BSB, war banner of ryma, flaming lance, hardened shield, lucky charm, dragonforged armour, 182
Mage, alchemy, scroll 105

Core
24 Archers, musician, standard, 236
15 Highborn lancers, FC, +1M banner, 390

Special
5 Dragon Princes, Champion, devastating charge, 170
23 Swordmasters, FC, Rending banner, 361

Rare
Eagle, 50
Fire Phoenix, 160
3 Repeater bolt throwers, 240

Total 2499
SpellArcher
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Re: PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

#2 Post by SpellArcher »

Hi Padforce

Both lists look decent on a first viewing. The first one seems more flexible, while the second has the bus, of course. What formation do you normally run the Swordmasters in? Where does the Life AM go and what kind of casting strategy do you use? I like that both lists have a decent shooting phase.

I take it the bus is maxed out at 15 models? Presumably you can't get away with cutting to ten say and getting another unit in? Overall I just like having the Prince because he can grind away at S7 round after round. How does the 1+ RR hold up in the current meta?
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Re: PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

#3 Post by Prince of Spires »

I think the second list is slightly stronger. Adding the prince to the lancer bus significantly increases their efficiency. It's mobile, has enough shooting to matter and if you can get the combats you want it hits like a trainwreck.

I think the first list is a bit more unusual. It has more board control with the chariots and packs a serious charge. Core is an interesting discussion. Seaguard vs archers remains an interesting discussion. I'm not convinced that the seaguard are worth it. Or rather, that archers are good enough for most purposes. But probably more testing is needed to reach any definitive conclusion on them in the current form.

For both lists keeping the SM alive will be key. And both might struggle a bit here. Especially vs dedicated shooting lists.

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PadForce
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Re: PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

#4 Post by PadForce »

Thanks chaps! Testing them both tomorrow, first vs bark elves, then vs wood elves.

Im hoping that i can use the first list effectively. Cav buses by their nature just fill me with a bit of worry - lose the chaff war, dont get the charge you need and suddenly you are losing 18 - 2 as your bus takes a charge and gets obliterated.

The lvl4 will be in the swordmasters continually casting regen / flesh to stone / regrowth so hopefully that keeps the numbers high enough to be combat effective!!

The thing with Seaguard is they are just that much better at objective grabbing. With some armour and the ability to move and still volley, with enough bodies to hopefully survive at least 1 turn of combat you are much more likely to be able to manuver them towards an objective in the last turn or two.

On the Silver Helm 15 strong bus i really feel u need those bodies. With no magic or war machine protection they are going to take casualties so it is worth spending 100 extra core points on the bus to make your 500pt character invesent 20% safer.

Will let you know how it goes!
PadForce
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Re: PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

#5 Post by PadForce »

Casting strategy is an interesting one, i havnt run a big spell lvl in years so it is a big change for me. In the last bit of 8th i was rynning a lvl4 high in a cav bus so much more about as many small spells as possible to build the ward save. In early 9th i by and large ran a loremaster.

The life lvl 4 strategy obviously starts at spell selection which will depend on what i am facing and whether i will be keeping dwellers if i roll it or not. Hopefully if i get one of dwellers or regrowth the ill have three smaller spells ( presumably always including regen) and a bigger spell.

I think my strategy in general may revolve around going for one or two smaller spells first depending on PD, and then if the opponent keeps hold of his DD going for a big spell at the end with a high casting value just hoping to roll high enough to draw a scroll on dwellers or force through a regen. Will have to see tho!
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Re: PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

#6 Post by sparkytrypod »

i like the second list too!

one question, what do you think of that back rank of helms? are they just extra wounds or are you looking to break someones ranks?

that bus of knights could be trouble in round 2 combat as it only has the prince to grind out wounds?

sorry it ended up being more than one question!

what do you think?
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PadForce
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Re: PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

#7 Post by PadForce »

For me the back rank of helms is there purely for the additional wounds. A few extra attacls are unlikely to make or break badly taken combats so my first priority in any game is to be avoiding wherever possible a situation whhere the prince will need to grind.

I think if im not confirdent of going through a unit in 1 round, or at the very least grinding through it in my opponent's turn, i wont be taking the charge.
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Re: PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

#8 Post by SpellArcher »

PadForce wrote:The thing with Seaguard is they are just that much better at objective grabbing. With some armour and the ability to move and still volley, with enough bodies to hopefully survive at least 1 turn of combat you are much more likely to be able to manuver them towards an objective in the last turn or two.
This is it, they can stay fully ranked up and still all shoot and move, plus they get Parry.

How will the AM stay alive vs enemies with magical attacks?

The bus thing worries me. Time and time again in 8th Seredain found himself trying things like lances and tricksy magic items. Every time he returned to maximum grinding power on Prince, BSB and sometimes 3rd character. The bus had to be able to take a charge and win. Now sure, there are a few things you wouldn't want to receive but not many and speed and deployment deal with that. Are there that many more such enemies in 9th Age? If so, maybe the bus is a bit dodgy generally, considering how much it costs.
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Re: PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

#9 Post by Ferny »

How important is parry on them now? It was awesome as all hell a few patches back, but now I'm not sure. I mostly like them for ambush now, although they get expensive fast in big units...at least heavy armour isn't a temptation anymore. I haven't tried running them as hybrid objective grabbers yet, in the trade off between generally quite cool options in core I keep looking elsewhere, but I think they would be really good at this and it will come down to playstyles and preference, which is a big win for the designers if so.

On the first list - I like it, but I think you're taking a risk on the BSB with no real re-rolls and no ward save. Possibly I'm too cautious about these things, but I'd want to build him more defensively. What are your thoughts on the build you've gone for - specifically, what is his role in this particular list?

I like your core set up, although with only one unit of reavers I'd want to have at least one eagle, although granted you have chariots and at a push the pheonix as potential chaff/redirects or more likely chaff clearers.

Second list - how much do you value the 6++ from the dragonforged armour? You could save those points and retain flame protection from the dragon helm, but it depends on what you'd spend them on I guess.

Why the change of seaguard to archers in core? I don't have a view on it yet, just curious.

And in both lists - why the flaming lance? Flaming on single models has been nerfed now - I think if ypu're going that route you're better off with the banner which you can use on the whole unit and turn on/off.
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PadForce
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Re: PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

#10 Post by PadForce »

Right.. bit of a delay in getting back to you guys so sorry!

Taking questions in turn:
If he lvl4 is up against magical attacks ill just have to hope he gets either the regen or +2/4T spell off. At the end of the day anything attacking him is going to be taking a huge number of hits from the SMs first so if its a unit hopefully it will be dead quickly, if its a character he wont have that many attacks and may not be able to do 3 wounds in 1 round.

In the bus points firstly lots of stuff has been toned down in 9th Age, ie dragons no longer fly10, cold ones are M7 etc. That means with M9 + the +1M banner i will have a 18 - 19" threat radius that a greater number of things in 9th cant match compared to 8th. Secondly stuff is generally less hard - as a result i can probably afford to have grinding strength only on the prince.. because he still has 4 s7 attacks. Honestly i feel if im not getting the charge off with this bus then i have lost anyway, so im not too worried about being able to grind it out. Finally the bus is a very very good way of preserving points and that can be critical when it comes time to counts up VPs. Have a 900pt cav bus that people have to deal with at some stage to get a decent win is very helpful.

Parry is kind of meh now but can still be useful against ws5 and above.

The 6++ on the dragonforged armour is definitely still good just because of the price of the characters. If you make a save once in 10 games that keeps the bsb alive its more than paid for itself. This is doubly true on the prince as anything that can get through his 1+ rr is likely to be very high S etc, so a lucky 6++ may ben negating an attack from a 300 pt character, definitely worth it!. Even just comparing it to the 4++ (50pts) you are getting 1/3 the protection for 1/7 the cost!

I changed seaguard to archers for the second list because i didnt think i had enough points for an ok sized seaguard unit. Im actually going to change it back however just because of useability.. even a smaller unit of Seaguard is imo in this list more useful than a 24 man archer block. The resiliency vs cav, armour and moving volley fire is just really helpful.

The reason i have the lance in the cav bus list is that it is 10 points, a normal lance is also 10 points, so i get flaming for free. Saving 10pts of magic allowance isnt enough to get any other goddies worth having, so im very happy getting flaming attacks for free. Im not worried about the fact flaming now doesnt negate the regen ward for everyone else.. if it is a unit i am against then it wouldnt have made any difference, if it is a monster then its not going to survive all the prince + s6 unit attacks anyway, regardless of a regen save.

On the flaming banner, given that i can get some flaming attacks for free on the lance, i am prioritising the +1s banner carried by the bsb, and the +1M banner carried by the unit. M10 on the bus is just so so much more important to be able to get as many charges off, and be as manuverable around the battlefield, as possible. No charge means no +1s, no lance bonus etc, its everything. Ditto +1s is going to be useful against the vast majority of things, wheras a flaming banner is useful in far fewer situations. Granted in those situations it will make more difference than +1s, but again i have a few flaming attacks, and if its something like a ghoul horde ill always b trying to fly the phoenix over them.

Short batreps to follow from last weekend's games!

PadForce
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Re: PadForce's v1 lists moving towards Bristol Call to Arms

#11 Post by SpellArcher »

PadForce wrote:In the bus points firstly lots of stuff has been toned down in 9th Age, ie dragons no longer fly10, cold ones are M7 etc. That means with M9 + the +1M banner i will have a 18 - 19" threat radius that a greater number of things in 9th cant match compared to 8th.
Fair play. The issue that occurs to me here is that flyers are much harder to redirect than the bus. Though I guess it would take a pretty potent flyer to worry it.
PadForce wrote:Honestly i feel if im not getting the charge off with this bus then i have lost anyway, so im not too worried about being able to grind it out. Finally the bus is a very very good way of preserving points and that can be critical when it comes time to counts up VPs. Have a 900pt cav bus that people have to deal with at some stage to get a decent win is very helpful.
Thing is, I'm having trouble thinking of a 900pt unit in 8th that isn't happy taking charges. Is 9th Age that different here? On the other hand, Banner of Ryma really incentivises the charge, I can see that. I used to play Wild Rider buses that hit like a train and didn't like getting charged but they were less points-intensive.
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