Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

All discussions related to games of fantasy battles such as AoS, T9A, KoW, MESBG, WAP, Warmaster, etc go here, including army construction, comp creation, campaign and scenarios design, etc...
Post Reply
Message
Author
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#1 Post by SpellArcher »

Up now on TNA site:
http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?simple-page/

Will be 1.0 according to Yuri on Asrai:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=43 ... 86#p355486

Sisters now a straight Strength 4. RBT to Rare but still 0-3.
PadForce
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:21 pm

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#2 Post by PadForce »

Yeah annoyingly the War Banner of Ryma now doesnt affect mounts so my Lion chariot bsb build is gimped, never even got to try him!

Other changes I noted -
SMs now more expensive as 5, but 12 points per model after the initial 70
Flame wardens now 125 for 10, 16 point per model after that
Prince of Ryma honour can now be on a horse (5x S7 attacks anyone?)
Loremaster less expensive by 20 points
Royal huntsman honour now comes with Lion Cloak but is 15 points more
Mage honour cheaper, also spear and book

Im actually quite tempted to try a cavalry bus now!
Ferny
9th Age Moderator
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:03 pm

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#3 Post by Ferny »

I think lion BSB still works: heavy armour and mounts protection from chariot give 3+, lion cloak 2+ combat and critical 1+ vs shooting, then add in 4++ for artillery and general protection and a great weapon for tasty MW goodness and you've got a tank with lots of high S attacks. If you wanted to really go to town on the defence you could take a prince with armour of destiny and duskstone for 1+/1+/4++, but obviously not BSB. I really like the chariot option now, though I can't work out a viable build for him on foot.

Spear I think is an interesting and useable option now, and the mage honour.
The 9th Age: Alumni

Former Roles: Advisory Board, HR, Moderator and Highborn Elves Army Support
Malossar
Something Cool
Posts: 2309
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Northern, California USA

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#4 Post by Malossar »

Indeed. I dig the BsB lion chariot and have since.99 I think it's outstanding.


I've also thought the prince with a 1+, rerolled and a 4++ makes quite a tank. However he's hurt by the non marching and no-flying other princes would have.



Cav-bus prince almost became an auto include I think. He can ride with Knights for 5 str 8 attacks on the charge :shock: and then grinds well if there's anything left...
Ptolemy wrote:Im not above whoring myself for a good cause. ;)
Image
Ferny
9th Age Moderator
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:03 pm

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#5 Post by Ferny »

Malossar wrote:Cav-bus prince almost became an auto include I think. He can ride with Knights for 5 str 8 attacks on the charge :shock: and then grinds well if there's anything left...
Is it *that* good? The only difference is a single attack (admitedly S8) and only on the charge, for which you have to pay handsomely in points. I'd almost thought it was a fluffy option - have I misread it?!
The 9th Age: Alumni

Former Roles: Advisory Board, HR, Moderator and Highborn Elves Army Support
Ferny
9th Age Moderator
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:03 pm

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#6 Post by Ferny »

Scratch that, just seen that the horse costs 20 so the honour is effectively just 10pts (and as a bonus, the horse gets an extra attack too, although not at S4 any more!). I guess this is probably auto include for one prince if you take him on a horse (max 1 though), assuming you don't need it for a dragon rider.
The 9th Age: Alumni

Former Roles: Advisory Board, HR, Moderator and Highborn Elves Army Support
chumchu
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#7 Post by chumchu »

I like most of the changes and especially the following.
- No heavy armour on sea guard: separates more from spears.
- Slightly cheaper special infantry: slightly more viable.
- The magical spear being reasonably priced.
- Cheaper Asfad: makes archmages slightly more attractive.
- Nerfs to queensguard: sorely needed

What I do not like or understand is the lack of love for foot combat characters.
Huntsman: gets a huge boost on the chariot now, but nerfed on foot (as it have to pay for a cloak even if takes mithril). Should it not have been the other way around? The new spear would have been nice with hardened shield and lion cloak if you did not have to pay 45 points to get it. Compare the foot huntsman with DE fleet commander with headsmans axe or SE forest guardian with whirlwind blade. They still get their 2+ save while also getting much higher output (multiple wounds VS. everything and either +1 S and killer instinct or +1 A and Ws).
MoCT: The hero is now too expensive compared to a normal hero plus a mage. The lord is more ok. Both still seem too expensive/fragile for putting them in front line units.
WOTF: The only real foot fighter we have. Too expensive outside of BSB but works fine as that.
Fleet commander: Multiple mundane weapons is a very slight boost as you can now give him a spear in addition to great weapon. Does not really change that he is either fragile or expensive.

On the other hand mounted princes just got Ryma honour and with the Ryma Banner it makes for a great bus. Ryma prince with Shard of Cenryn in such a unit should put 3-4 wounds on most things in the game.
fjupp
Aerendar Valandil
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:54 am
Location: The Free Republic of Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#8 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

Minor remark: I see Elein Reavers cannot drop their spears for bow only. Was that planned, and is there a rationale?
Ferny
9th Age Moderator
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:03 pm

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#9 Post by Ferny »

I don't think they've been able to swap weapons throuhout ninth have they? It never struck me as a problem as bows are so cheap, but then I used to run spear only so the cheap bows just means I auto-include them now.

RE: lion honour on foot - personally and not as AS - I agree that he's too vulnerable, although not him specifically but all our foot combat characters other than the warden...but it is most noticeable with him because of his pricetag. My feeling is that at some point down the line this will need to be addressed, but we'll wait and see, we're into a stable playtest period now.

MoCT hero wasn't our proposal, but we can probably live with it. It's still cheaper than a Lv2 mage and lets you multi-choose between lores 'for free'. I suspect it probably isn't worth it outside of BSB (or general if you're going light on characters), but was it ever before?

WOTF: I think he works as a general too, at hero or lord level. The only way to make him hceaper IMO would be to drop him down to just 4++ basic, which personally I think would be a shame. I take your poitn that he is costly though. Ideally we could balance other foot heroes against him and still have them all as viable combat options. One thing I read the other day which I liked was to allow lion cloaks to honourless characters again, which would I think open some doors.

Fleet commander - suffers the same issues as other foot heroes IMO. Not sure how to fix short of something radical like calcathin's proposals or folding him into a regular character, which feels somehow backwards...
The 9th Age: Alumni

Former Roles: Advisory Board, HR, Moderator and Highborn Elves Army Support
chumchu
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#10 Post by chumchu »

One thing I read the other day which I liked was to allow lion cloaks to honourless characters again, which would I think open some doors.
That is what I was arguing for but in what I thought was a more elegant way. If basic Lion honour only gives you a cloak (and maybe valiant?) then it would be the same as giving cloaks to honorless characters but without creating any exceptions to the general rule. The MW wounds part could then be purchased separately as it is the highly expensive and specialised part of the honour.

Royal Huntsman 25/15
The model gains a lion cloak and valiant.

Can be upgraded for 30 points: the model gains a mundane great weapon that does
multiple wounds[2: monsters, ridden monsters, monstrous beast, monstrous
cavalry].
The only way to make him hceaper IMO would be to drop him down to just 4++ basic, which personally I think would be a shame.
If you could get it for 60/50 points then I would prefer it plain =). My ideal is 4++ and either MR(1) or divine attacks for 70/60.
fjupp
Ferny
9th Age Moderator
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:03 pm

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#11 Post by Ferny »

Oh I see, I misunderstood what you were saying. Yes, that is quite elegant...
The 9th Age: Alumni

Former Roles: Advisory Board, HR, Moderator and Highborn Elves Army Support
User avatar
Giladis
The Merlord
Posts: 2908
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:13 am
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#12 Post by Giladis »

Yes but it is not right. As per RT stance Honours and all such abilities should be overcosted when compared to magical items and such characters should be borderline inferior compared to characters without these.

It is just something that will have to be tuned over a longer period of time.
User avatar
Doctor
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:31 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#13 Post by Doctor »

What's the point of such philosophy?
User avatar
Giladis
The Merlord
Posts: 2908
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:13 am
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#14 Post by Giladis »

To reduce the number of options that need to be balanced for the core game. The game is complex as it is for ensuring balance between armies.

Adding several dozen variants and combinations for each character slot does not help in making a balanced game.
User avatar
Doctor
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:31 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#15 Post by Doctor »

I can see some logic in it. But is adding them but making them rather bad the way forward? Why not the same or perhaps borderline better than a generic hero with magic items?
User avatar
Giladis
The Merlord
Posts: 2908
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:13 am
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#16 Post by Giladis »

Because the generic hero is the aimed power level, and the other thing is an underpowered model affects just that model, overpowered one affects the overall game.
Hortennse
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:43 pm

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#17 Post by Hortennse »

Sorry to accuse, but I read the High Elf list and the Saurian list updates last night, and I will tell you for a fact that I own both armies, and if I wanted to win I would take Saurian every time right now.

Are they seriously taking tournament results such as a high elf winning the TINY Adepticon tournament and saying "OMG that must mean High Elves need a nerf!"

Saurian got some serious buffs back btw
2013 Great Lakes Warhammer League Champion: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=45531
http://glwl.org/glwl_hoc.pdf
2013 Screw City Grand Tournament Best General: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=55314
http://iwfb.net/screwcitygt.html
Hortennse
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:43 pm

Re: Rules Update v 0.99.4.1

#18 Post by Hortennse »

Also, as far as the philosophy of having these upgrades but making them bad, who forgot to apply this to practically every Slann ability that can be bought? I'm actually fine with the concept but it needs to be applied equally across books. I also was very impressed with the Strigoi bloodline powers I saw.
2013 Great Lakes Warhammer League Champion: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=45531
http://glwl.org/glwl_hoc.pdf
2013 Screw City Grand Tournament Best General: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=55314
http://iwfb.net/screwcitygt.html
Post Reply