Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

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Giladis
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Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#1 Post by Giladis »

With the 0.99 finally out it is time to playing more games.

The main motivator behind this list is the 3rd page Artwork from the 7th ed book. I wanted to create a list that represents the HE on the field of battle in my view, and then playtest until I become proficient with it. The game play is more or less the same as it had been since 5th edition when I started HE so the learning curve shouldn't be to steep.

So without further delay here is the list.

Giladis - High Prince (General) @ 335 pts
High Warden, Dragonforged Armour, Shield
Spear of the Blazing Dawn, Dust Stone, Dragon Mantle

Bel-Selith - Archmage @ 315 pts
Asfad Scholar, L4 White Magic
Tome of Arcane Lore, Talisman of GShielding

Imraldar - Commander (BSB) @ 140 pts
Heavy Armour
Great Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield

2x30 Citizen Spears @ 315+315 > 630 pts
Full Command

2x SGR @ 80+80 > 160 pts
Repeating

2x GE @ 50+50 > 100 pts

24 Flame Wardens @ 434 pts
Full Command
Rending Banner

21 Sword Masters or Lion Guard @ 303 or 304 pts
Full Command

TOTAL: 2497/2498


I am not yet sure which unit to take as my secondary elite and for the next few games will be playing both to see how things go against different opponents.
PadForce
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#2 Post by PadForce »

Hey.

On SMs vs Lion Guard I would assume in this list Lion Guard would be a better fit purely because the rest of your list is quite tough. Put in Lion Guard and you continue that trend - your opponent wont have any targets that are easy to get points out of at range. Put SMs in on the other hand and everything will be focused on them from the word go. Plus the best banner to combo with SMs is already being used on the Flame Wardens.

I have to say I am a bit confused with the Commander, you don't have any shooting units to put him in?

I havnt read the White magic path since v0.99, has it changed much? Why do you feel you need an extra spell over a +1 to cast & dispel?

You don't need Dragonforged armour on your Prince because hes getting the ward from HWotF and the fireborn from the Dragon Helm.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#3 Post by SpellArcher »

PadForce wrote:Why do you feel you need an extra spell over a +1 to cast & dispel?
Yeah, I'm interested too. There are other good options of course.
PadForce wrote:You don't need Dragonforged armour on your Prince because hes getting the ward from HWotF and the fireborn from the Dragon Helm.
Believe it's Dragon Mantle, which only gives +2 AS? Very solid fighter.
PadForce wrote:On SMs vs Lion Guard I would assume in this list Lion Guard would be a better fit purely because the rest of your list is quite tough. Put in Lion Guard and you continue that trend - your opponent wont have any targets that are easy to get points out of at range. Put SMs in on the other hand and everything will be focused on them from the word go. Plus the best banner to combo with SMs is already being used on the Flame Wardens.
I agree with most of this. Part of the problem is I feel, there is not enough force projection in the list to lock down the enemy ranged threat. So the enemy will have time and space to target the Swordmasters. No Cavalry or Monsters for example. 2 RBT plus the Bow are helpful but the phase lacks volume. Swapping one of the Spear blocks for shooters would help this and synergise with Guiding Hand. Third RBT looks very sensible as well. This would make more enemies come to you Giladis, making M5 less of an issue.
PadForce
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#4 Post by PadForce »

PadForce wrote:You don't need Dragonforged armour on your Prince because hes getting the ward from HWotF and the fireborn from the Dragon Helm.
Believe it's Dragon Mantle, which only gives +2 AS? Very solid fighter.

Ah I hadn't even realised that was a thing!
Cold Phoenix
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#5 Post by Cold Phoenix »

Giladis, how does a list like this play? I usually only have much less Infantry, 2-3 units of Cavalry, lots more chaff and shooting. Even with all that I find the chaff war an uphill struggle playing against some armies like Beastmen. I just can't wrap my head around the list; how do you stop opponents from clearing up your RBTs + Eagles, chaffing up your infantry blocks and combo-charging them off one by one?
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#6 Post by Giladis »

On SMs vs Lion Guard I would assume in this list Lion Guard would be a better fit purely because the rest of your list is quite tough. Put in Lion Guard and you continue that trend - your opponent wont have any targets that are easy to get points out of at range. Put SMs in on the other hand and everything will be focused on them from the word go. Plus the best banner to combo with SMs is already being used on the Flame Wardens.
I agree with your analysis that the LG are more resilient, and less of a target, but for me it is also a question of damage potential. The value between the two will depend on the meta. Currently I am leaning more towards the LG, but I won't make a decision before I do a few game. First one is on Tuesday against Beast Herds.

I have to say I am a bit confused with the Commander, you don't have any shooting units to put him in?
That is what the Grey Watchers are for.
I havnt read the White magic path since v0.99, has it changed much? Why do you feel you need an extra spell over a +1 to cast & dispel?
It hasn't changed much, Blessing now works on Flame Wardens, Attribute tokens are permanent (though I do dislike the attribute). What makes the Path stick out for me is its versatility, but not on its own, combined with the Honour added +6" to all the spells is just amazing.

30" MM, 30" magic move to support things on the flanks, 18" Blessing, 30" Dissolution and Cataclysm, and on top of that a useful Bound Spell that helps your remove enemy spells in your magic phase at the much lower CV.

In most cases it means that spells that target the enemy get an additional turn to be cast, while the augments can support from further back.

Though I will admit Alchemy, Wilderness, Nature and Fire are quite attractive to me, but they lack the versatility.

+1 to cast/dispel is great but I value +1 spell much more due to the versatility of the Path, and more dice I roll the higher the chance I'll get what I want in any given match since the Path has spells for any given match up.
You don't need Dragonforged armour on your Prince because hes getting the ward from HWotF and the fireborn from the Dragon Helm.
What SpellArcher said, but I will agree with you that DA should be given a pass to free me a few points for a change I'll make to accommodate more shooting into the list.
I agree with most of this. Part of the problem is I feel, there is not enough force projection in the list to lock down the enemy ranged threat. So the enemy will have time and space to target the Swordmasters. No Cavalry or Monsters for example. 2 RBT plus the Bow are helpful but the phase lacks volume. Swapping one of the Spear blocks for shooters would help this and synergise with Guiding Hand. Third RBT looks very sensible as well. This would make more enemies come to you Giladis, making M5 less of an issue.
I agree with you and after some fiddling with the pen and paper I think I will go back to by signature Sea Guard core. The fighting potential is roughly the same, ranged anti chaff potential is expanded greatly with it since a unit should be able to delete a unit of chaff per turn.
Giladis, how does a list like this play? I usually only have much less Infantry, 2-3 units of Cavalry, lots more chaff and shooting. Even with all that I find the chaff war an uphill struggle playing against some armies like Beastmen. I just can't wrap my head around the list; how do you stop opponents from clearing up your RBTs + Eagles, chaffing up your infantry blocks and combo-charging them off one by one?
I am not sure how to answer this. I do win with lists like these more than I lose, but how exactly is a good question.

In the past I used Sea Guard instead of Spearmen and I'll be reverting back to it after additional thought. The main thing is to form a battleline that allows your units to support each other and not worry to much about enemy chaff (unless they are fliers, those are destroyed at the first opportunity). Enemy chaff unless harassers are as much in your opponents way as they are in you way and I have no problem not forcing an egagement with the opponent but to slowly dance with his army somehwere in middle of the board and towards my deployment. RBTs and GEs are sacrificial pieces that are either roadblocks or baits. I don't think I remember the last game where GEs or RBTs survived. More points the enemy spends on chaff less he has in combat units so yes his main combat block or two are a problem to block until I can get local superiority to deal with, but my other units almost always are more then sufficient to deal on their own with enemy support as those are usually of lesser quality/numbers.

The two armies that cause me trouble are WDG and SE, either because their every unit is actually capable of going toe-to-toe with mine, or because they can play the game where contact with my army is not necessary to win the game.

Oh and the revised list.

Giladis - High Prince (General) @ 328 pts
High Warden, Heavy Armour, Shield
Spear of the Blazing Dawn, Dust Stone, Dragon Mantle

Bel-Selith - Archmage @ 315 pts
Asfad Scholar, L4 White Magic
Tome of Arcane Lore, Talisman of GShielding

Imraldar - Commander (BSB) @ 140 pts
Heavy Armour
Great Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield

2x24 Sea Guard @ 318+318 > 636 pts
Full Command

2x SGR @ 80+80 > 160 pts
Repeating

2x GE @ 50+50 > 100 pts

24 Flame Wardens @ 434 pts
Full Command
Rending Banner

21 Sword Masters or Lion Guard @ 303 or 304 pts
Full Command

TOTAL: 2496/2497
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#7 Post by PadForce »

Am I going blind? I don't think you've actually written down the Grew Watchers in this list?
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#8 Post by Giladis »

PadForce wrote:Am I going blind? I don't think you've actually written down the Grew Watchers in this list?
No everything is OK with your eyesight :mrgreen:

I forgot to write them down :x


Now it is fixed :oops:

Giladis - High Prince (General) @ 328 pts
High Warden, Heavy Armour, Shield
Spear of the Blazing Dawn, Dust Stone, Dragon Mantle

Bel-Selith - Archmage @ 315 pts
Asfad Scholar, L4 White Magic
Tome of Arcane Lore, Talisman of GShielding

Imraldar - Commander (BSB) @ 140 pts
Heavy Armour
Great Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield

2x24 Sea Guard @ 318+318 > 636 pts
Full Command

2x SGR @ 80+80 > 160 pts
Repeating

2x GE @ 50+50 > 100 pts

5 Grey Watchers @ 80 pts

24 Flame Wardens @ 434 pts
Full Command
Rending Banner

21 Sword Masters or Lion Guard @ 303 or 304 pts
Full Command

TOTAL: 2496/2497
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#9 Post by SpellArcher »

Giladis wrote:I do win with lists like these more than I lose, but how exactly is a good question.
Because you play well?

:)

Yeah, I prefer Sea Guard to Spears here for the reasons we both mentioned. The ability to Parry could be very helpful. I know you've run the BSB archer in SW's for some time Giladis but five looks a little fragile to me. Could more bodies be safer vs shooting/magic?
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#10 Post by Giladis »

I could exchange 1 FW for a GW, but thanks to an idea by SmithF over at T9A I am considering dropping GE for the ability to upgrade BSB to Canreig Master and take Wilderness and Nature, which would give me a total potential of 5 CC spells.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#11 Post by Giladis »

Actually here is the amended list in full.

Giladis - High Prince (General) @ 335 pts
High Warden, Dragonforged Armour, Shield
Spear of the Blazing Dawn, Dust Stone, Dragon Mantle

Bel-Selith - Archmage @ 315 pts
Asfad Scholar, L4 White Magic
Tome of Arcane Lore, Talisman of GShielding

Imraldar - Commander (BSB) @ 212 pts
Master of Canreig Tower (Wilderness, Nature), Dragonforged Armour
Great Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield

28 Sea Guard @ 386
Full Command
Flaming Standard

20 Sea Guard @ 270
Full Command

2x SGR @ 80+80 > 160 pts
Repeating

2x GE @ 50+50 > 100 pts

23 Flame Wardens @ 418 pts
Full Command
Rending Banner

21 Lion Guard @ 304 pts
Full Command

TOTAL: 2500
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#12 Post by Cold Phoenix »

Giladis, how does a list like this play? I usually only have much less Infantry, 2-3 units of Cavalry, lots more chaff and shooting. Even with all that I find the chaff war an uphill struggle playing against some armies like Beastmen. I just can't wrap my head around the list; how do you stop opponents from clearing up your RBTs + Eagles, chaffing up your infantry blocks and combo-charging them off one by one?

I am not sure how to answer this. I do win with lists like these more than I lose, but how exactly is a good question.

In the past I used Sea Guard instead of Spearmen and I'll be reverting back to it after additional thought. The main thing is to form a battleline that allows your units to support each other and not worry to much about enemy chaff (unless they are fliers, those are destroyed at the first opportunity). Enemy chaff unless harassers are as much in your opponents way as they are in you way and I have no problem not forcing an egagement with the opponent but to slowly dance with his army somehwere in middle of the board and towards my deployment. RBTs and GEs are sacrificial pieces that are either roadblocks or baits. I don't think I remember the last game where GEs or RBTs survived. More points the enemy spends on chaff less he has in combat units so yes his main combat block or two are a problem to block until I can get local superiority to deal with, but my other units almost always are more then sufficient to deal on their own with enemy support as those are usually of lesser quality/numbers.

The two armies that cause me trouble are WDG and SE, either because their every unit is actually capable of going toe-to-toe with mine, or because they can play the game where contact with my army is not necessary to win the game.
Interesting, thanks for the reply. What happens if the other player has powerful combat units and enough shooting to pressure you? I traditionally have trouble against Brets with 2 Trebs because a single Treb hit can wreak a HE infantry unit and they usually have 1-2 strong lances which will win combat if they get the charge. I've found this to be even more of a problem under 9th because now there's usually 4-6 small units of Knights or mounted Yeoman to get in the way.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#13 Post by Giladis »

Had a game last night against Beast Herds 1338:1309 +29, I am satisfied how the list behaved, and I was a bit lucky when it mattered. With only one magic phase with more than 6 dice prior to turn 6 my magic investment was not that good and influenced the game quite a bit from my perspective.

The opponents list was something along these lines

Beast Lord - Ambush bonus
Chieftain BSB - Beast Axe, Totems
Gnarled Soothsayer - Ws10, Scroll
25 Wildhorns - FC +1S banner, +1A Ap(2) totem
15 Wildhorns - FC
3x Raiding Chariots (individual)
10 Mongrels
2x Razortusk (individual)
6 Centaurs - champion, drunk
2x Giant
Gortach
27 Longhorns - FC
Briar Beast

I played the list from my post above.

Full picts and report to follow.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#14 Post by SpellArcher »

Looking forward to it.

Must add Beasts to the list of army books I've read and digested.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#15 Post by Giladis »

I failed to find the time to write the battle report with all the other things happening, but I did manage to play another game last night with a slightly altered list.

Giladis - High Prince (General) @ 245 pts
Great Weapon
Mithril Mail, Taliman of SShielding, Divine Icon

Bel-Selith - High Prince @ 385 pts
Master of Canreig Tower, Great Weapon
Great Bow of Elu, Scroll

Imraldar - Commander (BSB) @ 217 pts
High Warden (Wilderness, Nature), Heavy Armour, Shield
Dragon Mantle, Hero's Sword


24 Sea Guard @ 318
Full Command

24 Sea Guard @ 318
Full Command

3x SGR @ 80+80+80 > 240 pts
Repeating

2x GE @ 50+50 > 100 pts

21 Flame Wardens @ 386 pts
Full Command
Rending Banner

20 Lion Guard @ 304 pts
Full Command

TOTAL: 2499

I faced against this though I do not know everything my opponent had since we never came into contact with his characters.

Von Karnstein Lord - Storm Caller, Hardened Shield, Tulius Teeth - Necromancy
Necromancer Lord - L3, Necromancy, Scroll
Barrow King - BSB
40 Ghouls - FC, Banner of Speed (Lord+BSB)
30+ Zombies - FC (L3)
5 Wolves
15 Ghouls - skirmishers
2x3 Vampire Spawn
2x Varkolak
7 Barrow Knights - Standard, Musician
Phantom Swarm
6 Vampire Knights

I won 857 vs 210 (no objectives) because my opponent made a mistake during the deployment allowing me to block his units with my eagles long enough to deal with most of his support units. In the last turn I had the option of either killing the remaining Barrow Knight with banner or triple charge the full Ghould with Flame Wardens with the Master into the flank, Lion Guard and one unit of Sea Guard into the front. I wasn't sure I would do enough damage to crumble him due to Distracting and wasn't willing to risk death of characters in the last turn.

I lost 2 Reapers and 2 Eagles
I killed 2 Varkolaks, 2x Vampire Spawns, Phantom Host, Wolves, Barrow Knights


So after two games with two similar list I came to the conclusion that spending so many points on magic just isn't worth it. I got to little for the amount of points I have spent and the units I have at my disposal made it really difficult to deal with multiple threats. I believe the list needs more CC deterant to be better at dealing with the multiple threats coming my way and also to give me something to put the pressure onto the enemy that doesn't want to come to me, so I have decided to redesign the list somewhat.

First thing that was removed was the Sea Guard and replaced with Archers, 48 bows vs 30 longbow shots should over the course of 6 turns even out in the number of hits they inflict on the enemy, while the remaining points have given me an opening for cavalry unit I had not played in a very long time (since 6th edition). The other decision was to drop Honours and concentrate on units.

So the reworked list that is going to be tested next week as I continue my road to the Serbian GT in Novi Sad.

Giladis - High Prince (General) @ 245 pts
Great Weapon
Mithril Mail, Talisman of SShielding , Divine Icon

Imraldar - Commander (BSB) @ 145 pts
Heavy Armour
Great Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield, Dragonfire Gem

Bel-Selith - Mage @ 130 pts
L2 - ???
Book of Arcane Power

Thamior - Mage @ 130 pts
L2 - ???
Dispel Scroll

12 Highborn Lancers @ 324 pts
Full Command, Mounts Protection
Banner of Speed

2x10 Archers @ 100+100 > 200 pts
Musician

10 Archers @ 110 pts
Musician, Standard

21 Flame Warden @ 386 pts
Full Command
Rending Banner

20 Lion Guard @ 295 pts
Full Command
Banner of Courage

3x1 Reaver Chariot @ 65+65+65 > 195 pts

3x1 Sea Guard Reaper @ 80+80+80 > 240 pts
Repeating Shot

2x1 Great Eagle > 50+50 > 100 pts


Total: 2500


Now my only concern that is troubling me is what Paths to take on my pair of mage, do I take the same Path twice, and if I do which, or do I take two of them, and if I do which two.


I am interested what you guys think would best complement the list.


Cheers :)
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#16 Post by chumchu »

I would think that metal would complements the list nicely. It both gives you more ranged threat and has 2 very useful augments and 2 hexes that work at range and in crucial combats. Crucially, it helps you take on really hard targets that your shooting can't damage and Lions can't catch. It also synergises well with the defensive nature of the list as it can make your combat units much better at taking damage.

If you take another lore than metal I would recommend dropping some points for queensguard to fill that same role.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#17 Post by Cold Phoenix »

I'd second the recommendation for metal. The ranged threat is good, the augments and hexes are useful and the lore attribute is amazing. My only concern is that you don't have a unit which really benefits from the attribute. Archers might find it useful in a shooting duel but the White Lions and Phoenix guard are already well protected, the Silver Helms are ineligible and everything else is a single model or character. Swordmasters, Sea Guard and Spearmen on the other hand would love the extra armour...

Just out of interest, what's the idea with the Silver Helms? My own experience with units of 10-12 is that they suffer from being expensive enough to be a target but can't deal with anything resembling a serious combat unit. They also suck if they don't get the charge. Would you consider finding the points to get Giladis (the High Prince, not you :) ) a horse so that he can join the unit and give them a bit more punch?
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#18 Post by Giladis »

Silver Helms are envisioned as flankers and as a fast unit for claiming objectives late in the game. I would also agree with the two of you for the choice of Paths.

Recent discussions on the 9th Age have spurred me to alter the list even more and try to make it work and score well at the GT to see if certain units aren as bad as perceived.

So I decided to adjust the above list into three configurations that I have to decide which one would be best and which one would suite me the best.

Using Grenic setup

Configuration 1
LORD (385 pts, 15,4%)
- High Prince; Canreig; GW; Bow of Elu, Scroll (General) - 385 pts
HEROES (217 pts, 8,7%)
- Commander; Warden; HA, SH; Dragon Mantle, Hero's Sword (BSB) - 217 pts
CORE (634 pts, 25,4%)
- 1x12 Highborn Lancers; Full Command; Mount's Protection; Banner of Speed - 324 pts
- 1x10 Citizen Archers; Musician, Standard - 110 pts
- 2x10 Citizen Archers; Musician - 2x100 pts
SPECIAL (1164 pts, 46,5%)
- 1x20 Sword Masters; Full Command; Banner of Becalming - 325 pts
- 2x14 Sword Masters; Musician, Standard - 2x202 pts
- 3x1 Sea Guard Reaper; Repeating Shot - 3x80 pts
- 3x1 Reaver Chariot - 3x65 pts
RARE (100 pts, 4%)
- 2x1 Great Eagle - 2x50 pts

TOTAL: 2500; DEPLOYMENTS: 14; MODELS/WOUNDS: 100/119
Configuration 2
LORD (300 pts, 12%)
- Archmage; Asfad; Amethyst Crystal; Talisman of GShielding (General) - 300 pts
HEROES (247 pts, 9,9%)
- Commander; DA; Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield (BSB) - 147 pts
- Mage; Level 2; Scroll - 130 pts
CORE (644 pts, 25,8%)
- 1x12 Highborn Lancers; Full Command; Mount's Protection; Banner of Speed - 324 pts
- 2x10 Citizen Archers; Musician, Standard - 2x110 pts
- 1x10 Citizen Archers; Musician - 100 pts
SPECIAL (1177 pts, 47,1%)
- 1x21 Sword Masters; Full Command; Banner of Becalming - 338 pts
- 2x14 Sword Masters; Musician, Standard - 2x202 pts
- 3x1 Sea Guard Reaper; Repeating Shot - 3x80 pts
- 3x1 Reaver Chariot - 3x65 pts
RARE (100 pts, 4%)
- 2x1 Great Eagle - 2x50 pts

TOTAL: 2499 DEPLOYMENTS: 14 MODELS/WOUNDS: 102/122
Configuration 3
LORD (245 pts, 9,8%)
- High Prince; GW; Mithril Mail, Talisman of SShielding, Divine Icon (General) - 245 pts
HEROES (342 pts, 12,9%)
- Commander; Canreig; DA; Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield (BSB) - 212 pts
- Mage; Level 2; Scroll - 130 pts
CORE (634 pts, 25,4%)
- 1x12 Highborn Lancers; Full Command; Mount's Protection; Banner of Speed - 324 pts
- 1x10 Citizen Archers; Musician, Standard - 110 pts
- 2x10 Citizen Archers; Musician - 2x100 pts
SPECIAL (1164 pts, 46,5%)
- 1x21 Lion Guard; Full Command; Banner of Becalming - 339 pts
- 2x14 Sword Masters; Musician, Standard - 2x202 pts
- 3x1 Sea Guard Reaper; Repeating Shot - 3x80 pts
- 3x1 Reaver Chariot - 3x65 pts
RARE (100 pts, 4%)
- 2x1 Great Eagle - 2x50 pts

TOTAL: 2500 DEPLOYMENTS: 14 MODELS/WOUNDS: 102/122
Configuration 1 relies on versatility of the magic phase to carry me forward.

Configuration 2 will either use Paths of Light or Metal to compliment the rest of the force.

Configuration 3 will have Nature+Fire and Light or Alchemy on the Mage.


I am curious of your opinions.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#19 Post by Ferny »

Giladis wrote:Giladis - High Prince (General) @ 328 pts
High Warden, Heavy Armour, Shield
Spear of the Blazing Dawn, Dust Stone, Dragon Mantle

Bel-Selith - Archmage @ 315 pts
Asfad Scholar, L4 White Magic
Tome of Arcane Lore, Talisman of GShielding

Imraldar - Commander (BSB) @ 140 pts
Heavy Armour
Great Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield

2x24 Sea Guard @ 318+318 > 636 pts
Full Command

2x SGR @ 80+80 > 160 pts
Repeating

2x GE @ 50+50 > 100 pts

5 Grey Watchers @ 80 pts

24 Flame Wardens @ 434 pts
Full Command
Rending Banner

21 Sword Masters or Lion Guard @ 303 or 304 pts
Full Command

TOTAL: 2496/2497
This list excites me quite a lot. You've got 4 combat blocks, including the classic dual elites going on. In terms of support/chaff, 2x eagle, min grey watchers is decent enough I think. I like that now that core is better eagles are back in as a cheaper redirect than (the very good) reavers, as we no longer need to see core as a tax IMO.

It's interesting to see dual lords too - I think the AM is more or less the build to go for if you're doing AM (alternatives being as yours but with gleaming robes instead of ward or annulian crystal instead of +1 to cast and dispel). The annointed likewise is the way to do the spear (more or less the only way IMO), although I think he's too expensive to be worth it - I'd rather take hero level with hero sword, dragon mantle and finish to taste.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#20 Post by Ferny »

Giladis wrote: Giladis - High Prince (General) @ 245 pts
Great Weapon
Mithril Mail, Taliman of SShielding, Divine Icon

Bel-Selith - High Prince @ 385 pts
Master of Canreig Tower, Great Weapon
Great Bow of Elu, Scroll

Imraldar - Commander (BSB) @ 217 pts
High Warden (Wilderness, Nature), Heavy Armour, Shield
Dragon Mantle, Hero's Sword


24 Sea Guard @ 318
Full Command

24 Sea Guard @ 318
Full Command

3x SGR @ 80+80+80 > 240 pts
Repeating

2x GE @ 50+50 > 100 pts

21 Flame Wardens @ 386 pts
Full Command
Rending Banner

20 Lion Guard @ 304 pts
Full Command

TOTAL: 2499
Seems legit...but a couple of questions...what is the role of your combat foot prince? You have high S attacks already from lions, and high volume attacks from PG, and high Ld from the Lordmaster. He isn't kitted for the kill, but rather is a honourless annointed...it seems an expensive route to get stubborn for the lions - is it worth it?
So after two games with two similar list I came to the conclusion that spending so many points on magic just isn't worth it. I got to little for the amount of points I have spent and the units I have at my disposal made it really difficult to deal with multiple threats. I believe the list needs more CC deterant to be better at dealing with the multiple threats coming my way and also to give me something to put the pressure onto the enemy that doesn't want to come to me, so I have decided to redesign the list somewhat.

First thing that was removed was the Sea Guard and replaced with Archers, 48 bows vs 30 longbow shots should over the course of 6 turns even out in the number of hits they inflict on the enemy, while the remaining points have given me an opening for cavalry unit I had not played in a very long time (since 6th edition). The other decision was to drop Honours and concentrate on units.

So the reworked list that is going to be tested next week as I continue my road to the Serbian GT in Novi Sad.

Giladis - High Prince (General) @ 245 pts
Great Weapon
Mithril Mail, Talisman of SShielding , Divine Icon

Imraldar - Commander (BSB) @ 145 pts
Heavy Armour
Great Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield, Dragonfire Gem

Bel-Selith - Mage @ 130 pts
L2 - ???
Book of Arcane Power

Thamior - Mage @ 130 pts
L2 - ???
Dispel Scroll

12 Highborn Lancers @ 324 pts
Full Command, Mounts Protection
Banner of Speed

2x10 Archers @ 100+100 > 200 pts
Musician

10 Archers @ 110 pts
Musician, Standard

21 Flame Warden @ 386 pts
Full Command
Rending Banner

20 Lion Guard @ 295 pts
Full Command
Banner of Courage

3x1 Reaver Chariot @ 65+65+65 > 195 pts

3x1 Sea Guard Reaper @ 80+80+80 > 240 pts
Repeating Shot

2x1 Great Eagle > 50+50 > 100 pts


Total: 2500


Now my only concern that is troubling me is what Paths to take on my pair of mage, do I take the same Path twice, and if I do which, or do I take two of them, and if I do which two.


I am interested what you guys think would best complement the list.


Cheers :)
This looks interesting. I'd be tempted by heavens, light, and beasts I think. I'd be tempted to give mage honour to the BSB to take fire and alchemy if you don't take alchemy base as these two lores between them offer answers to elven skirmishers (especially things like waywatchers) and otherwise imponderables like the steam tank.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#21 Post by Ferny »

Giladis wrote:Silver Helms are envisioned as flankers and as a fast unit for claiming objectives late in the game. I would also agree with the two of you for the choice of Paths.

Recent discussions on the 9th Age have spurred me to alter the list even more and try to make it work and score well at the GT to see if certain units aren as bad as perceived.

So I decided to adjust the above list into three configurations that I have to decide which one would be best and which one would suite me the best.

Using Grenic setup

Configuration 1
LORD (385 pts, 15,4%)
- High Prince; Canreig; GW; Bow of Elu, Scroll (General) - 385 pts
HEROES (217 pts, 8,7%)
- Commander; Warden; HA, SH; Dragon Mantle, Hero's Sword (BSB) - 217 pts
CORE (634 pts, 25,4%)
- 1x12 Highborn Lancers; Full Command; Mount's Protection; Banner of Speed - 324 pts
- 1x10 Citizen Archers; Musician, Standard - 110 pts
- 2x10 Citizen Archers; Musician - 2x100 pts
SPECIAL (1164 pts, 46,5%)
- 1x20 Sword Masters; Full Command; Banner of Becalming - 325 pts
- 2x14 Sword Masters; Musician, Standard - 2x202 pts
- 3x1 Sea Guard Reaper; Repeating Shot - 3x80 pts
- 3x1 Reaver Chariot - 3x65 pts
RARE (100 pts, 4%)
- 2x1 Great Eagle - 2x50 pts

TOTAL: 2500; DEPLOYMENTS: 14; MODELS/WOUNDS: 100/119
Configuration 2
LORD (300 pts, 12%)
- Archmage; Asfad; Amethyst Crystal; Talisman of GShielding (General) - 300 pts
HEROES (247 pts, 9,9%)
- Commander; DA; Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield (BSB) - 147 pts
- Mage; Level 2; Scroll - 130 pts
CORE (644 pts, 25,8%)
- 1x12 Highborn Lancers; Full Command; Mount's Protection; Banner of Speed - 324 pts
- 2x10 Citizen Archers; Musician, Standard - 2x110 pts
- 1x10 Citizen Archers; Musician - 100 pts
SPECIAL (1177 pts, 47,1%)
- 1x21 Sword Masters; Full Command; Banner of Becalming - 338 pts
- 2x14 Sword Masters; Musician, Standard - 2x202 pts
- 3x1 Sea Guard Reaper; Repeating Shot - 3x80 pts
- 3x1 Reaver Chariot - 3x65 pts
RARE (100 pts, 4%)
- 2x1 Great Eagle - 2x50 pts

TOTAL: 2499 DEPLOYMENTS: 14 MODELS/WOUNDS: 102/122
Configuration 3
LORD (245 pts, 9,8%)
- High Prince; GW; Mithril Mail, Talisman of SShielding, Divine Icon (General) - 245 pts
HEROES (342 pts, 12,9%)
- Commander; Canreig; DA; Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield (BSB) - 212 pts
- Mage; Level 2; Scroll - 130 pts
CORE (634 pts, 25,4%)
- 1x12 Highborn Lancers; Full Command; Mount's Protection; Banner of Speed - 324 pts
- 1x10 Citizen Archers; Musician, Standard - 110 pts
- 2x10 Citizen Archers; Musician - 2x100 pts
SPECIAL (1164 pts, 46,5%)
- 1x21 Lion Guard; Full Command; Banner of Becalming - 339 pts
- 2x14 Sword Masters; Musician, Standard - 2x202 pts
- 3x1 Sea Guard Reaper; Repeating Shot - 3x80 pts
- 3x1 Reaver Chariot - 3x65 pts
RARE (100 pts, 4%)
- 2x1 Great Eagle - 2x50 pts

TOTAL: 2500 DEPLOYMENTS: 14 MODELS/WOUNDS: 102/122
Configuration 1 relies on versatility of the magic phase to carry me forward.

Configuration 2 will either use Paths of Light or Metal to compliment the rest of the force.

Configuration 3 will have Nature+Fire and Light or Alchemy on the Mage.


I am curious of your opinions.

1 and 2 look interesting, and in a way come down to personal preference IMO. I don't see the point of the prince in 3 - I'd replace him with a hero level general and either use the points to get more heroes or boost your model count.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#22 Post by Giladis »

Thanks on the feedback Fenry.

In list the 3rd configuration Prince is there to ensure Lion Guard will be stubborn and hold an enemy in place for a turn or two while Sword Master or Lancers come from the flank or rear.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#23 Post by Giladis »

So in order to show that Master of Canreig, Sword Masters, Reaver Chariots and Archers aren't all that bad I have self challenged myself ( Sword Master Rules ) to go with a list including all this. As a result configuration 1 from above has been slightly altered for better play.

LORD (395 pts, 15,8%)
- High Prince; Canreig; GW; Mithril Mail, Talisman of SShielding (General) - 395 pts
HEROES (147 pts, 5,9%)
- Commander; DA; Great Bow of Elu, Hardened Shield (BSB) - 147 pts
CORE (634 pts, 25,4%)
- 1x12 Highborn Lancers; Full Command; Mount's Protection; Banner of Speed - 324 pts
- 1x10 Citizen Archers; Musician, Standard - 110 pts
- 2x10 Citizen Archers; Musician - 2x100 pts
SPECIAL (1223 pts, 48,9%)
- 1x20 Sword Masters; Full Command; Banner of Becalming - 325 pts
- 2x18 Sword Masters; Full Command - 2x264 pts
- 3x1 Sea Guard Reaper; Repeating Shot - 3x80 pts
- 2x1 Reaver Chariot - 2x65 pts
RARE (100 pts, 4%)
- 2x1 Great Eagle - 2x50 pts

TOTAL: 2499; DEPLOYMENTS: 12; MODELS/WOUNDS: 107/123


My first test game is later this week, followed by one (maybe two) game per week unti 22.4. when I go to the GT.


I'll keep you posted how things will develop.
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#24 Post by Ferny »

Giladis wrote:So in order to show that Master of Canreig, Sword Masters, Reaver Chariots and Archers aren't all that bad I have self challenged myself ( Sword Master Rules ) to go with a list including all this.
Stop trolling us with your persistent positivity about units which are clearly too bad ;).
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Re: Host of Giladis in 9th Age 2500 pts

#25 Post by Giladis »

Ended being best HE at a tournament :)


My list

LORD (395 pts, 15,8%)
- High Prince; Canreig; GW; Mithril Mail, Talisman of SShielding (General) - 395 pts
HEROES (137 pts, 5,5%)
- Commander; HA, SH; Great Bow of Elu (BSB) - 137 pts
CORE (634 pts, 25,4%)
- 1x12 Highborn Lancers; Full Command; Mount's Protection; Banner of Speed - 324 pts
- 1x10 Citizen Archers; Musician, Standard - 110 pts
- 2x10 Citizen Archers; Musician - 2x100 pts
SPECIAL (1232 pts, 49,3%)
- 1x20 Sword Masters; Full Command; Beast-Bane Halberd, Flaming Standard - 335 pts
- 1x20 Sword Masters; Full Commande; Banner of Becalming - 325 pts
- 1x14 Sword Masters; Musician, Standard - 202 pts
- 3x1 Sea Guard Reaper; Repeating Shot - 3x80 pts
- 2x1 Reaver Chariot - 2x65 pts
RARE (100 pts, 4%)
- 2x1 Great Eagle - 2x50 pts

TOTAL: 2498; DEPLOYMENTS: 12; MODELS/WOUNDS: 105/121

I am back from field testing SM, Archers and RC. My conclusion is SM are not unplayable and maybe even a little bit too good. Archers do exactly what I want from them. Master of Canreig Tower is extremely versatile for his points. Reaver Chariots are a steal and an additional source of chaff, while MVU of the Tournament were the Lancers with M10

In the end I lost two games, and won thre,e taking 7th place out of 30 via generalship wining 62/94 pts, managed to win maximum points from Sportsmanship but failed to defend that title from last year as I was tied with 3 other guys, but lost points on painting as I didn't have time to finish up the army so I got only 18/30 on that in the end grabbing 8th place overall.

As far as generalship goes 1st place was only 11 points ahead.

So in short as I am rather busy - also I am not 100% of the unit numbers

Game 1 vs Strigoi Vampires (3:17) The guy went to win the tournament
Small Strigoi Lord and Strigoi Hero in a horde of Ghouls
Big Strigoi Hero in 8 Ghasts
Necromancer in 25+ Skeletons
2x5 Wolves
5 Winged Reapers

The game was rather balanced in the end decided significantly by 4 Ld tests, and two spells.
Turn 1 - Wilderness MM into a SGR killing it and panicking a chariot of the field and sending a GE fleeing as well removing my chaff on the left flank and also managing to move the Ghasts 17" thanks to march and attribute, causing major changes to my battleline.
Turn 3 - Lancers charged Reapers to lock them down for 2 combat rounds so I can finish them of with a unit of SM that were catching up. I lost by 1 and failed a re-rollable Ld
Turn 4 - he healed WR, charged SM (14) with my general and got Wilderness Signature on them - it did not end well I fled but managed to get away
Turn 5 - flaming SM charged the Ghast start and fought for two rounds of CC reducing the unit to only 4 wounds and Hero. Prince and two SM rallied. Shooting reduced the WR to 2 models/ 7 wounds.
Turn 6 - WR charge Prince and SM, I do 2 wound, he kills 2 SM I lose by 1 and fail the Ld test
Game over
That last Ld roll costed me 485 pts for my general and prevented me from taking 400+ points for finishing off WR in my turn.


Game 2 vs Wrath Pestilence Warriors (17:3) - Hold the Ground
Pestilence Daemon Prince, Pestilence Sorcerer, Pestilence BSB
7 Hounds, 3 Centaurs, 3 Crushers, 25 Pestilence Warriors with HW+SH, 8 Pestilence Once Chosen with Halberds, 5 Wrath Fallen, 5 Hellriders

The game happened mostly around the middle, with my Lancer and 14 SM going around the flnaks clearing stuff up. My eagles gave their lives to block the 2 important combat blocks from reaching me quickly. At the same time shooting took out his support elements.
5th Turn I went for a long charge my one of the chariot into the flank of the Crushers which were engaged with Lancers for the last 4 combat phases (Heavens was gold there). If I managed the flnak+damage+banner will either kill the remaining 4 wounds or send them packing allowing my Lancers to move behind enemy lines and contest the center along with the flanking SM, while the other SM unit could march just close enough to win the objective for me vs his two. Chariot failed and ended between the Once Chosen and one of my SM with General and BSB. Crushers promptly broke the Lancers and through pursuit finished their participation in the game. Then my opponent made the mistake.
6th Turn - there was no way either of us could win the scenario since it would 2vs2 banners, but then he decided to charge, once chosen into the chariot and I elected to stand meaning he will certainly complete the charge. The warriors just edged forward to be in range of the Once chosen , still keep the objective and prevent my other SM unit from marching close enough to claim it. Since I wasn't particularly keen to charge just 14 SM into the rear of a full block of Warriors and loose the scenario by a lucky fluke it meant no one would claim the objective, but there was still a fight to be had with the once chosen. Chariot died and he overran into the SM.
In my turn the other chariot and the other SM unit hit the flank, Magic phase was helpful with successfuly casting Heavens, Nature and Wilderness. One cc phase later there were on 5 wounds of Once Chosen left for the loss of 2 SM. He broke, fled I pursued with my generals block and got lucky rolling 12" and getting close enough to by half an inch to claim the objective. So in the last turn I netted some 550 pts and 6 Gpts via objectives.

Btw DP died in the 5th turn after several turns of taking Alchemy, Death and Reapers into the face.


Game 3 vs Orcs and Goblins (19:1) - Breakthrough
Feral Warlord on Wyvern, Iron Warlord on Wyver general, Iron BSB with no Magic Items banner, Goblin Shaman, Orc Shaman, Goblin Hero on Spider
30+ Orcs with 5++ vs shooting, Horde of Feral Eadbashers, 5 Wolves, 25+ Cave Goblins, Big Spider, 2 Git Launchers, Splatterer

First two turn went poorly for me as he moved as quickly as he could towards me hoping to hem me in between his blocks and the board edge while bombing me with his artillery. I lost a SGR, archers and eagle failed panics from his shooting, in return for killing his Goblin hero and wolves. But then the Lancers started to dance with the Spider and Feral Warlord on the right flank. Which eventually allowed be to rear charge the Spider with a unit of SM and kill it after weakening it with bow of Elu over 3 turns. My eagles died slowing down the advance of the Eadbashers, while a boosted Miasma bought me some time by dropping Common Orc M to 1. So on turn 3 my opponent made I mistake when I decided to to charge his Goblins which were protecting the flank of the Eadbashers, he fled, SM with general and 1 chariot redirected into the Eadbashers flank, while the other chariot caught the goblins and found itself staring at his 3 WM unsupporten. Then I got lucky and got 11 PD which to add insult to injury I casted -2Ws on Eadbashers, and moved the penetrating chariot another 10" closer so there would be no doubt on the outcome, Heavens on the Eadbashers, Wilderness and Nature on my SM. On CC later the Eadbashers were broken and run down by the Chariot. By the end of the game only things left on the table of his army were the two Warlords barely holding to their lives with 1 wound each.


Game 4 vs Vermin Swarm (7:13) - the two objectives vs one of the top 3 players in Croatia
Tyrant general, Tyrant with Fellblade, Magistrate, Mechanist, Assassin, BSB,
50 Rat-at-arms, 2x30 Slaves, Horde of Brothers, Dread Mill, Abomination, 5 Scouts, Minigun, Flamethrower, 2 Cannons

The first two turns dictated the course of the rest of the game, as well as a thing I forgot later in the game. First two turns of shooting, magic and accompanied panic test, some on Ld 10, some with a re-roll accounted for 1, chariot, both eagles, and Lancers (who before they failed Ld on 9 due to light have managed to get behind his lines and had clear line of sight to both his cannons), as well as depleting both big SM units. Toxic attacks spell and Black Lighting are brutal. The rest of the game I have spent trying to survive and manage to get as many points as possible while not loosing on objectives. The mistake I did was forgeting the a unit of slaves in wather doesn't have dteadfast so what should have been a quick butchery turned out to be a 3 combat rounds fight, preventing me from threatening his Rat-at-arms with all the characters, and contesting the other objective, while holding to the end one with a single surviving SM standard of a unit of 14 that survived the toxic attacks spell and two black lightning spells on the last turn. Not buying a champion for that unit was a right decision, otherwise I would have lost the objectives. My magic was not effective, 2 MM, and 2 touches of the reaper weren't something to write home about. In the end I killed enough to be satisfied and with a little bit more concentration on my part would have been 10:10 by wining the scenario. All in all I was very satisfied how the game went considering how it started.

Vermin are OK but the storm spell, especially when combined with the Lightning Rod on the first turn, when they go first is a game changer or such proportions that 9+ to cast seams to low.


Game 5 vs Dread Elves (16:4) - no scenario
3xOracle Nature, Wilderness, Alchemy; BSB with +1 to wound banner, Assassin
Horde of Spearmen, 25+ Executioners, 5 Knights, Hydra, Horde of Corsairs PW+TW, 2 Reapers, Altar of Nabh, Harpies

The game went badly for my opponent, his rolls were average, mine were not. He advanced towards me and did just a wound on a SGR. The in my turn Lancers moved full spead ahead getting just outside LoS of his Knights and Hydra. That done the air between the two armies was filled with magic missles, arrows and bolt accounting for 3 Knights, 5 Harpies, some Executioners, Corsairs and Spearmen. In his second turn he failed a long charge with the Altar on my chariot. In return I charged both of my chariots into the altar. Eagle went to block the Spearmen, the other went after one of the Reapers, while the mass of my magic and shooting focused on the dented Corsairs, in the Magic phase the passed the Panic test, in the shooting phase they didn't and fled directly in front of the Lancer who were now in his deployment zone staring down the long table edge. Suffice to say through shooting, magic and a few well placed holding actions by a unit of SM I managed to kill everything minus 18 Spearmen and the BSB, for the loss of 20 Archers, 2 Chariots, 2 SGR and an Eagle.


The conclusion in the end is that the damage potential of the SM is such that when used in multiple units they create far to many threat zones for the opponents to manage and not make mistakes, supported by swift elements such as Lancers that can completely throw the opponents plan of the rails they are just to good for normal units to face. What ever SM touched it died, irrelevant if the SM were supported by spells or not. The only problematic units were the two magically boosted Vampire units that have been nerfed for 1.0 while medium to big SM units got boosted.


Would I take a list like this to a tournament again. Yes I would especially since it is now cheaper and I have some 46 points to play with. Counting the number of times the Master ended up in combat against things he did not want to fight I am seriously considering ditching armour and ward save and buying the Bow of Elu, and +1 to cast and dispel, and helm against fire for 4+ armour. Prancing around casting spells and shooting things while providing Ld10 should be much better than going head in. At the same time the BSB while probably get the Warden Treatment and be sent into the front lines with 2+ save, and a weapon of some kind.

But I'll have to see how my hobby will develop. Now I have two more missions ahead of myself. Build an Equitan list that looks like it was taken straight out of 5th ed and make it work, and see how can Saurian focused SA army be made to work, without Salamanders, Taurosaurs, Flyers or Skirmishers :P


Final standing for GP for the top 10. (I played against the guys in red)

1. Vampire Covenant (Strigoi Hard Hitters) - 73
2. Dwarven Hold (Combat No WM) - 70 @kgkid
3. Dread Elves (Combined Arms Blades Horde Knights Block) - 67
4. Empire of Sonnstahl (Combined Arms Pope Mobile Light Council) - 66
5. Sylvan Elves (Catch Me If You Can Shooters) - 65 @franmann
6. Vermin Swarm (Combined Arms) - 63
7. Beast Herds (Ambushing Pillager Icon Assault) - 62 @Hruggek
8. Highborn Elves (Combined Arms Sword Masters) - 62 myself
9. Dwarven Hold (Combined Arms Little Bit Of Everything) - 61
10. Warriors of the Dark Gods (Pestilence Warrior Blocks Chariot Support) - 60


Full results over here > tourneykeeper.net/Singles/TKLeaderboard.aspx?Id=248


p.s. excuse my spelling and grammar phones are not the best writing mediums
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