Griffon Prince List

[Ielthan]

I'm wondering if you guys have had any success with the griffon prince yet? I'm messing around with some lists and find him quite tricky to build around.

This is what I'm contemplating using for some games coming up vs rats and KoE.


Prince, Mage lvl 1 (nature), Griffon w/upgrades, divine icon, daemon hunter helm, giant sword, shield, heavy armour. Figure this guy will just eat grail knights on the charge, even if they have the 4++, dragon armour would be great if i can find the points.

Archmage lvl 4, (light), amethyst crystal (while I think it's too expensive it's undoubtedly a powerful item). He could really benefit from the ironcurse icon if anyone can find the points.

High Captain, Warden of Flame, Hardened Shield, Sword of Strength, Dusk Stone, Lion Fur, Heavy Armour

5 Reavers w/4+ as. Want to see what they can really do with MD and the 4+ save.

5 Reavers w/4+ as

5 Reavers w/4+ as

26 Seaguard, Heavy armour, Champ, Standard

14 Swordmasters, Champ, Standard

14 Swordmasters, Champ, Standard

5 Dragon Princes, Champ, Standard

5 Dragon Princes, Champ, Standard

2399pts.

Big thing is no bolt throwers, which although sacrifices some board control, we gain some with the faster list. With less prevalence of armour and T6 I guess the question is how much do we really need bolt throwers now? They were never good vs skirmishers (of which I think we'll see more), infantry blocks have gotten tougher in general, I think they were always the best target for them. Tbh I don't really see how you fit them in if you want to take a heavy hitting lord. Perhaps supporting him with an all cav list is the way to go similar to the old (or even current) star dragon lists. Although I think the issue there is the nerfs to silver helms (no more botwd or FIER), also that swordmasters and seaguard are so damn good (RT bought too many island of blood sets? ).

Realistically you still need either the lvl 4 or loremaster, I don't think 2 lvl 2's will cut it, if they changed aided cast and dispel so it was just 2 lvl 2s can cast/dispel at +4, but then produced more high point arcane items to encourage lvl 4s, I think it would be interesting.

I feel the lvl 4 on light is probably the more points efficient option atm, although the loremaster is pretty awesome. I tried fielding both but felt it was too many points in magic; it was overkill. A friend suggested that 2 naked lvl3s might be the way to go magic wise, works out about 300pts on most armies, for which you get 6 spells and 2 channels. Combine it with banner of path and it doesn't seem a bad option at all, especially on light magic.

Can you see the Griffon prince having a place or will the star dragon just produce better lists? The other thing is in a meta with non magical cannons would he have a place at all?

[SpellArcher]

This is a new topic to discuss lelthan's list posted by mistake in PadForce's topic.

SA

[Ielthan]

Thanks for moving the list. Decided to swap out divine icon for talisman of cerwyn and the fireborn gem. Figure I can ideally get holy attacks from the lore attribute and the talisman is good for character hunting, given it's a combined profile with the griffon would it affect it's attacks too?

[Ferny]

I'm excited by the idea of griffon characters (for one, we can use our cool IoB models!). Out of curiosity, what made you go for it rather than dragon lord? Both have 3+ AS, both can get various degrees of wards for various costs, +3S lords, holy attacks, 18" Ld10 bubble etc. Griffons lose thunderstomp for stomp and don't get a breath weapon and have slightly weaker stats for a cheaper model. Looks something of a toss up to me (but I never took monster lords much in 8th so don't know quite how to rate them, besides the dynamic has changed in 9th).

I like the idea of having holy attacks on the monster character, but IMO the main restriction on taking the divine icon in most lists is that it prevents you from taking the icon of ironcurse/gem of fortune by taking up the EI slot. With T5, 3+ AS, 4W and 3++ vs magic you're pretty solid against small arms fire and magic, but vulnerable vs artillery, so IMO the ironcurse item is pretty key (assuming you don't go for flat 4++). So access to holy attacks through light magic in your list is great cos it frees up this critical EI slot. The alternative, as you've gone for in hte end, is Loec's item...I'm interested to see how the trade off between that and ironcurse works - both generally and for you.

I like the mage knight upgrade for him, although with a Lv4 you don't need it so much for aiding so there is some superfulousness there. You wanted points for dragon armour, this might be an option...but now you have fireward maybe you don't need to. Have you gone nature for the sig/attribute combo?

Where are you planning to bunker the AM? He looks vulnerable to me, both for kit and bunkers. I'd be tempted to lose the crystal and switch for book or scroll or something cheaper so you can get robes or ward save or something.

BSB build looks solid. Always feels a shame not to include PG when you've got a PG BSB, but with light magic you'll be getting holy attacks for free anyway, and with this list you don't need reforms or handmaiden so the ward looks sensible.

Distinct lack of magic banners. Don't you fancy something on the seaguard (core tax, might as well - maybe some sort of cheap leadership boost? you don't need prosaic days in this list, flaming would be nice perhaps too). Or paths or razors on a swordmaster unit (makes them expensive for MSU/MMU units though)? Likewise some cheap trinket for the DPs? Or is it just points restricting you.

[sparkytrypod]

the griffon lord is the same as what i am using, played 4 games with him, only lost him once through my own mistake.

He is a super flexible guy, a real high value target killer, just obviously dont send him in against rank and file on his own.
I mounted the BSB on an eagle as a support piece for him.
i think the mage knight on him with nature is essentialy to keep him in the game, that one dice at the start/end of a phase, regen & and a wound back on a 4+, yes please! if you use "obscuring terrain" then your griffon can hide/operate no problem.

im not sure how you plan to keep the archmage alive though? the minute he hits combat he is dead. i gave mine a scroll, gleaming robes and called it a day. that way he can tag along with the swordmasters, easier to cast the lower version of the light spells then.

have the seaguard ambush?

also i havent used bolt throwers so far, about 7 games now, havnt missed them at all.

if the seaguard dont have ambush i would be tempted to swap them for lancer/helm darts. they can perform the same chaff clearing role, act as redirectors, set traps for the dragon princes/swordmasters and help combo charges.

dragon princes are the business

[SpellArcher]

Thanks for moving the list.

You're welcome sir. I really like Griffon Prince now, hits hard and different dynamic to the Dragon.

I would take Dragon Armour and 4+ Regen. That way you cover Flaming and Holy Attacks. I feel you need the 4+, firstly because of mundane cannon of course. But also other war machines (RBT), Screams, close combat attacks that chew through armour etc.. Talisman of Cenryn looks well worth a go, maybe with Ogre Sword.

I'd take musicians, Swift Reforms are useful, vital on the LSG. No RBT means you have to attack more often than not, I'd be happier with that in a Dragon list, where you have his unit-busting power. Archmage should be able to sit in the LSG I'd have thought?

[Ielthan]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Game's tomorrow, rather than a series of games it's turned into a triumph and treachery 9th age bonanza. 2400 each, 400pts mercenaries available, but think im going to keep the coins to bribe any pesky dwarf cannons. Playing on a 6x6. With skaven in the picture I'm happy with the daemon hunter helm. But otherwise I'd probably agree 4+regen and dragon armour, with ogre sword and talisman of cenryn is probably the best build. So much is dependent on the presence of cannons. Trying the griffon lord over the dragon just to see what it can do really, used it once in all of 8th, and it was horrendous. Although I thought Eltharion on Stormwing was pretty good. I just really really hope he doesn't get cannoned before he can strut his stuff. Given the size of the board he may just fly out of range...nothing cowardly about that at all...

Haven't gone ambush on the seaguard, but want to try it in the future, tricky as they're usually my wizard bunker. The mage being in the seaguard hasn't been too much of an issue so far, generally they're a threat unit; they're too obvious a tarpit for opponents to engage early, and usually give me time to manouevre my strike units into position. Generally I find with high elves (for a long time not just 9th age) if a combat goes on for more than one turn, something's gone wrong. If someone is really going for them early, well that's what redirectors are for.


This is the list I've zeroed in on. More aimed at fun than being hyper competitive given it's a T&T game on a larger table. However I do feel it will be a valuable learning experience about our book.


Archmage lvl 4, Amethyst Crystal

Prince, lvl 1 nature, Talisman of Cerwyn, Daemon Hunter's Helm, Giant Sword, Lucky Charm (had points, figured why not), shield, dragon armour

Noble, BSB, High Warden, Banner of Dragon's Embrace, Lion Fur, Shield, Heavy Armour, Spear (S4 AP1 is still decent, excellent vs brets). Wanted banner of dragon's embrace on those seaguard, I suspect they'll draw some fire, and the 6+ ward in combat adds to their potential tarpit deterrent.

26 Sea guard, Full Command, War banner (I feel for 15pts this is a bit of a steal actually, again adds to their tarpit value with even more static res, bsb in this unit too). The triple march banner might even be good on them, especially if ambushing.

5 Reavers no upgrade

5 Reavers no upgrade

5 Reavers bow

Actually gone 628pts on core. Heard ETC will be 2500pts, something like this could be the way to go with core.

14 Swordmasters, Banner, Champ

14 Swordmasters, Banner, Champ

5 Dragon Princes, Banner, Champ

5 Dragon Princes, Banner, Champ


This list will be more about trying a different playstyle (more msu than I like) and units I didn't touch with a bargepole in 8th. Also the griffon prince, I hope he's actually good. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[Prince of Spires]

It looks like an interesting list. The core selection is solid enough. 3 redirectors are great to have out of core points. And the LSG are an interesting new choice. I think varying the banner on them will change their role around a bit and it will take some practice to find which works best. In the past I've never had too much success with the war banner. I find that it only matters in a few instances.

As for griffons, I would consider adding in a second griffon mounted model. Eagle BSBs have performed decently in dragon lists for me. This is sort of the same thing, but then with a bigger punch. It will offer good support to the prince and an extra target. The trick is of course, as always, to find the points for the model. I would consider putting fewer points in magic, dropping some toys on the characters and shaving points here and there off the units.

Rod

[SpellArcher]

Noble, BSB, High Warden, Banner of Dragon's Embrace, Lion Fur, Shield, Heavy Armour, Spear (S4 AP1 is still decent, excellent vs brets). Wanted banner of dragon's embrace on those seaguard, I suspect they'll draw some fire, and the 6+ ward in combat adds to their potential tarpit deterrent.

Worth a try I think. I'm slightly concerned about the BSB surviving but I guess your other units will be shielding these guys somewhat lelthan.

Interesting list, let us know how it goes.

[Ielthan]

Well had the game today, the griffon prince was excellent but underused. He killed a bretonnian lord on pegasus after being charged in the flank (T&T random turn order...) withut the griffon's help thanks to the talisman of cenryn. That was pretty bad ass, although it strikes me a prince on foot would have done the same. After that the enemies pretty much avoided him at all costs. Due to the having to pick one enemy system of T&T I couldn't really get him into the fight as much as I would have liked. Not having m10 on flyers will still take some adjusting, they aren't the kings of the movement phase they once were. The lvl 1 of nature is a good idea, and the +1 for channeling is great, but in reality it's very hard to get off the spell to heal him. Although now I see mage prince is gone...I can see people using cav buses as delivery systems for princes, with the one use item they're great assassins.

Other than that;

- Swordmasters are machines with light magic buffs, they're so flexible in combat the ability to turn on distracting can really keep them alive. MSU is definitely the way to go with them.

- Don't charge hellpits with Dragon Princes, Toxic Retaliation is Not Our Friend.

- 6+ wards feel great when you make them :p

- Reavers are still excellent war machine hunters, with the nerfs to flyers and potential 4+ saves they have improved by comparison.

- Amethyst crystal and +1 to channel dispel dice make for very, very strong magical defence, your opponents will struggle to manage 1 spell a turn.

- BSB and mage survived fairly easily; my tactic of 'anvil zoning' remains effective.

Oh and won the game by a tight 100 points . Swordmasters shrugged off a lance in the flank and a horde of peasants with the reliquary to the front on the last turn to clinch it. Awesome.

[SpellArcher]

Well had the game today, the griffon prince was excellent but underused. He killed a bretonnian lord on pegasus after being charged in the flank (T&T random turn order...) withut the griffon's help thanks to the talisman of cenryn. That was pretty bad ass, although it strikes me a prince on foot would have done the same.

The Griffon guy can pick his fights better mind.

Although now I see mage prince is gone.

This sucks.

Oh and won the game by a tight 100 points