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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:31 pm 
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Green Istari

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I feel your opponent’s army (whether in 9th Age, 8th edition, 7th etc) is powerful but it doesn’t cope well with bad combat dice. Whereas your list 20phoenix seemed to have enough about it to regroup and win through. Would you change much about how you approached the game?

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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:21 pm 
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I'm still undecided about divine icon v charm of Cursed Iron on prince and the BSB loadout - ToSS seems better overall but that one turn of 1+ 5++ is great for tanking stuff for a turn.

I was happy with deployment but I think I rushed into combat a turn early. I could have stood off for another turn giving me another turn of magic and shooting. I misplayed my right most sloop, putting him round a building to get a shooting angle but trapping myself in the process. In the end I had to sacrifice it in a way that kept two of his units away from the fight for most the game. In that respect I'm happy.

This felt like a good match up for me and we are planning on replaying it although he's dropping his wrath priest for a two spell alchemy sorceror


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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Green Istari

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20phoenix wrote:
I could have stood off for another turn giving me another turn of magic and shooting.

Often a good idea when you are stronger at range. There are exceptions of course.

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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:41 pm 
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Been a bit quiet recently due to holiday and the Blood Bowl Euros. Had four more games using the dragon list and it's done pretty well, tabling SE and EoS (rookie player), tabled by DL (top ranked in UK) and a close 11-9 loss to KoE on objective. It seems to lack something to deal with secondary objectives so I'm looking at tweaking it a little bit.

The changes i'm considering:
Dropping the Giant Sword and Charm of Cursed Iron for GW, Divine Icon and BoE on Prince
Dropping SGR and 5 spears for 9 QG and musician
Dropping one lancer dart, 2 SMs and 2 spears for 2 X reavers (at least one with champ, can't decide between bows and second champion)

Will be trying them out to see how they do.

On another note I'll be popping my tournament cherry after Christmas! There's a 4k tournament in MK which is ideally timed during the Xmas break. Not your average tournament - one day, custom objectives and TPs for taking lesser used units (or a dragon :D). HbE units include Flame Wardens, Reaver Chariot, Griffon Chars and Grey Watchers. I'm trying to get my list sorted early so I know what I need to get painted. Im not sure how much of the bonus stuff I'll take as GW and reavers are weak, FW are not strong enough for the first objective (TP for oppo killed rather than point difference). The griffon may make it in as BSB but would have to sacrifice magic if he's going alongside a dragon. I'll post some options soon


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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Green Istari

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20phoenix wrote:
Dropping the Giant Sword and Charm of Cursed Iron for GW, Divine Icon and BoE on Prince

Not finding the S7 that important?

20phoenix wrote:
On another note I'll be popping my tournament cherry after Christmas!

Have a great time! If the 9th Age scene is continuing the long-established Warhammer vibe, it should be a good experience.

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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:57 am 
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I personally wouldn't go with BoE (assuming Bow of Elu here) on the dragon. His whole purpose is to end up in combat and kick some serious ass when being in combat. Going for a shooting weapon is kind of the opposite to that. It's a nice choice, but you will either not shoot a lot and in which case it's better to spend the points on something else. Or you will be shooting, in which case the dragon isn't all that useful and you'd be better of spending those 500+ points on something else.

You did find out the weakness of the dragon. He's very good at combat. But he can only be in one place at a time. And with his points cost he ends up being the focal point of the army, which means the rest is mainly there to support him. Which makes it more difficult to claim secondary objectives.

Enjoy the tournament! And let us know how it went. It should be fun. Getting in a room full of WH players is always great.

Rod

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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:56 pm 
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So the base of my list is this:


++ Highborn Elves (BS2.0 Highborn Elves) [3649pts] ++

+ Characters +

Lords of the Seas [1140pts]
. High Prince
. . High Prince: Light Armour, The General
. . . High Prince Dragon mount
. . . . High Prince Dragon mount: Ancient Dragon
. . . Magic Items: Divine Icon, Giant Sword, Lucky Shield

+ Core +

Citizen Spears [422pts]: 24x Spearman
. Champion
. Musician
. Standard Bearer
. . Veteran Standard: Icon of the Relentless Company

Highborn Lancers [290pts]: Champion, 5x Highborn Lancer, Musician

Highborn Lancers [290pts]: Champion, 5x Highborn Lancer, Musician

+ Elder Service +

Queen's Guard [272pts]: Musician, 9x Queen's Guard

+ Special +

Giant Eagle [100pts]: Giant Eagle

Sky Sloop with Sea Reaper [240pts]: Sky Sloop with Sky Reaper

Sky Sloop with Sea Reaper [240pts]: Sky Sloop with Sky Reaper

Sword Masters [655pts]: 21x Sword Master
. Champion
. Musician
. Standard Bearer: Stalker's Standard

++ Total: [3649pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

The spare 350 points are going towards an ambushing BH giant :D

The three missions are:

Kill as much as possible (points for what you kill not points difference)
Claiming objectives of different values at end of game (one 6pt, two 3pt, one 1pt)
Claiming objectives each turn (four points assigned each turn)

With this in mind I wanted something killy, mobile and that I could feasibly paint before the tournament. Sadly this meant no KoR which would have been ideal.

If 2.0 drops in time I'll be running with something along these lines dependent on pricing:

OotFH Mage on Dragon
BH Giant
Block of Spears
2 X Lancer Darts
2 X Sloops
FW Block with Ryma banner
Grey Watchers


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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Green Istari

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20phoenix wrote:
If 2.0 drops in time I'll be running with something along these lines

Which likely rules changes are leading you to these revisions 20phoenix?

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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:32 am 
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OotfH - cheaper, alchemy access, successful casts give dragon +1M/+2A, access to paired weapons and hero's sword enchant means mage can hit a little too, hereditary spell and shield providing better protection for dragon.
Dragon also has flaming attacks now so with alchemy gets rerolls to wound on CC and breath weapon attacks.

Grey watchers - -1 to hit on failed resilience tests synergises well with dragon protection

FW Block - Ryma banner giving swiftstride and +ST in first round means they'll hit a bit harder on the charge. SMs are still better at aggression especially without the MoCT to give awaken the beast as well but FWs get me that TP I lose by putting magic in the list


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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:28 am 
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Played a game last night against gunline Ogres. List was much the same as I have been using but went back to 4 x Druidism and changed out the bolt thrower and some swords for QG. Spears switched to triple march banner.

He had 3 X 6 bombardiers, 15 Scraplings with throwing weapons, 12 bruisers, great khan with a lot of toys, BSB and a pyro shaman.

Rolled frontline clash and breakthrough. Hit the jackpot on spells as I got everything I wanted (regen, toughness, regrowth and entwining roots)

I had a wall in my deployment so I put swords and QG behind there. Dragon took the right flank where his shooting was, spears on the left.

He got first turn and marched the bruiser deathstar right at my lines while the bonbardiers poured fire into the Sloops, killing one and leaving the other on one wound. Enveloping embers on my spears was dispelled, nothing of note went through. I moved the pine wound sloop to chaff the big block, marched the swords and dragon forward and shuffled the spears slightly to prepare to triple march them past the big block if it came forward too far. Shooting took a couple of bombardiers off the unit bunkering his shaman and I got through - BS on the bonbardiers nearest the dragon.

He charges the two characters out the Bruisers, BSB into spears, general into the sloop. It was 50/50 whether it was flank or front so we rolled off and ended up flank so he could join the spear combat after finishing the sloop. Enveloping embers on swords was dispelled again but flaming swords got through on one of the bombardier units. He unloaded 40 shots into the dragon but only one made it through and the lucky charm did work. The third bombardier unit routed my left lancers, leaving one alive. My champion challenged and got accepted by his BSB who splatted him with impact hits. General poured attacks into BSB but only one wound made it through and the D3 wound roll was 1. (A relief as I forgot to use bronze breastplate!). The stomp bounced so we lost by 2 but stuck. My lancers charged his Scraplings (auto), swords needed a swiftstride 10 to get into the mage bunker bombardiers, (he forgot to stand and shoot) and my dragon charged the right most bonbardiers who fled. I redirected into mage bunker who also fled. Both SMs and dragon stumbled forwards 6. Eagle flew to redirect his bruiser block while QG left the cover of the wall to start sniping the non fleeing bombardiers. I got 5+ regen up on the spears but everything else dispelled. In combat my BSB stuck a wound on his general but the breastplate and ward bounced his attacks. The spears started to take some punishment from the BSB but we tied combat. The lancers lost two to DTs and a third in combat to the Scraplings but enough survived to rout them and chase them down.

Bruisers charged the chaffing eagle, the yetis bizarrely charged the dragon, the fleeing bombardiers rallied and the non-fleeing ones swift reformed to face the swords. He then had a shocking magic phase as enveloping embers failed and everything else got dispelled. Bombardiers took off some swords then his general and BSB bounced (comparatively) in combat and the spears won a round! He then failed a rerollable 9 with his general who ran! BSB held though so couldn't chase. The prince and dragon didn't do enough to the yetis to make me comfortable making them break test for it so the breath weapon came out which burned them to a crisp.

The swords charged the bruisers who were being semi chaffed by the fleeing general. However it also meant he was chaffing any countercharges so this was my big chance to break the bruiser unit, knowing I had two rounds to slice them up. The dragon charged the right-most bombardier's again, QG shuffled forward to get in range of the mage bunker and the decimated right lancers went and hid behind a forest for the rest of the game to provide breakthrough scoring. The single left lancer had enough and fled the field. In magic his three dice attempt to dispel oaken throne burned half his dispel dice which meant I got two spells off this turn. Regen on the swords was dispelled but toughness on the spears and -2WS on the bruisers were unopposed. QG continued to chip away at the mage bunker during shooting. In combat the dragon broke the bonbardiers again but caught them this time but as an added bonus, panicked the mage bunker! Swords did 8 wounds to the Bruisers and lost 6 in return, edging the combat but they held. He chose to reform to get max ogres in combat the next turn. Spears finally broke and ran down the BSB (T6 finally stemmed the flow of wounds).

His general rallied and turned to face the swords flank, mage bunker rallies again and the left bombardiers swift reform to face the dragon. Flaming swords went off on his bombardier's who unloaded into the dragon taking off three wounds. Yowch. The reform of the Bruisers turned out to be an error as the swords hit with everything they had, putting 14 wounds on and taking 8 back. The bruisers fled and were caught by the swiftstriding swords.

The dragon charged the remains of the mage bunker, I wasn't keen due to the wounds but he would just get shot up otherwise. S&S took another wound. The swords moved out of his generals arc and the spears marched to get in regrowth range of them. The rest is a bit hazy but the mage bunker took the dragon down to 1w before fleeing. The final bombardier unit shot him down the following turn. They got spooked by something (QG?) and ran off the board. I got regrowth off in one of the last two turns to restore swords to over 25% and his general charged the spears who just fed him a champion.

Bloody game but great fun - He rolled seriously out the box on number of bombardier shots (T5 before he rolled below average with a unit!) but then failed some critical panic tests. I had batches of bad dice, lancers rolling 1s for fun and my BSB hitting on 2s on his BSB then rolling three 1's :lol: but boy did my saves pull through at some critical times.

I had this down as a loss as his list murders T3 AS5+ troops but I managed to take advantage of a couple of openings. With that much shooting I don't think he needed to shove the bruisers in my face T1. Sit back and let the shooting rip me up then pick up the pieces of what's left. I think Druidism is better for this list, it needs the buffs as it has the capacity to melt when facing high damage lists. I think I prefer the QG to a bolt thrower too, loses 1AP but 3 extra shots that hit on 3s, not 4s. An extra scoring unit is also useful.

Release date for 2.0 has been set for a week Sunday so I'll post in a bit about some things I'm looking forward to.


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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:43 pm 
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So 2.0 is imminent and I wanted to air views on some of the HbE changes. Going to work through the army book in order

Racial Trait spell - Grants two Veil tokens so potentially extra magic dice is good. When spell is up can discard veil tokens to prevent wounds on something within 18" once a phase. Standard infantry can ignore two wounds. Pretty useful spell - little bit of monster protection and great for swinging tight combats. Probably high on dispel list allowing you to get other stuff through

MoCT - Now has access to #1 spell in 5 paths - Alchemy, Druidism, Witchcraft, Cosmology and Shamanism. All spells have Druidism attribute. Amazing change - we don't know which spells some of them are but +ST is one and flying movement another. This guy is amazing - double swooping fire phoenixes and ST4 spears? Yes please.

Prince of Ryma - Extra attack on the charge. When on a monster changes AA and character allowance to allow double dragon. All chars have to be monster mounted though. No Sloops or sgr if on monster. A lot of my early builds are going to centre around this guy. Double dragon was high on the list until I saw the new lance for HbE which has given me an awesome looking Ryma bus build idea I want to try (points dependent)

OotFH Mage - Access to alchemy and pyro although only molten copper can be cast into combat when taking Alch. Can take paired weapons now. When on a dragon the dragon now has flaming attacks. Successful spell casts grant +1M and +2Att. Great changes and he's much improved in combat. Alchemy access opens some interesting combos.

Ancient Dragon - Losing a pip of toughness smarts, especially as our other tanky build has reputedly got hit. Extra 2" of march doesn't plug the gap especially with the massive base.

Seaguard - New rule stolen straight from the EoS playbook allowing them to SnS when units within 12" get charged. Seem situational and ST3 bowshots don't really scare anyone. Unless crazy price gets dropped I still won't touch these.

Spears - Reputedly cheaper and with changes to spear rules (AP2 and +2I when charged have made these better. Using them in 1.3 currently and find them usable. Changes to them are good especially with +1ST spell and access to Ryma Banners


Reaver Chariot - lose a wound and vanguard but can march and take command group. May test them out as anti-chaff chaff or cheap champions to take challenges for dragon but overall not keen. Reputedly cheaper but doesn't fix it's problems.

Grey Watchers - -1 to hit on failed resilience tests make these interesting. I'll be trying them out for sure but it remains to be seen how well the rule works.

Sky sloop - loses storm pennant upgrade. No drama, never used, would rather have the bolt thrower than the spell in all lists

Phoenixes - Can no longer be mounted by char but gain optional upgrade of a warden champion to ride it which will grant the 3+ rebirth (5+ otherwise). Fire phoenix loses 5++ but becomes 4+AS. Gains a D6 grinding attack in combat . Frostie can wake units for -3AG, -1AS and -1AP. I like the fire phoenix change, it needed something else for combat even if he is a bit more fragile and he gains massively from MoCT access to Ravens Wing. I'm not sure about frostie, twin fire and ice birds look potent but I can see twin fire still being the strongest setup especially in MoCT lists. Not fussed about losing the mount options - HbE have too many as is and some thing of the herd was required.

Spear of the Blazing Dawn - +1ST, +2AP magical attack spear that doubles your hits. Footslogging chars just got a new best friend. I loved the previous incarnation and I love this too. Hope that it still fits in an MoCT build.

Nova lance - Divine Attack, Lethal Strike, Magical Attack lance that grants an additional attack on the charge. Has a one use only activation that activates all your charging bonuses again. The Ryma Princes wet dream. A griffon riders wet dream. I have a list detailed below that is designed to maximise this weapon points permitting #1 on the playtest list!

Armour of the Forgotten Kings - +2AS, +2 DS. Basically access to 1+ on foot. Designed with foot princes in mind, not sure how keen I am on foot princes which might limit my usage of it. If I do, I suspect this is what I take

Starmetal shield - Halves multi-wounds. Auto include on ridden monsters.

Gleaming robe - 3++ for mage on foot or horse. Max 6+ AS. Reduces some miscast outcomes. Might see some use especially if I need to take a mage on foot that needs to be shoehorned into a combat unit. Miscast less likely now so that portion is more of a cherry on top

Shimmer and Shine - Hard target for cavalry models. Griffon and YD models get some extra shooting protection. Pretty useful if you have the points allowance (I'd guess only mages and prince will have that)

Overall I'm pretty enthusiastic about the changes although assessing them in a vacuum is tough. Full BRB access and weighing it up against other armies options are the acid test.

What I really like is list building just got a lot harder and in a good way. Our range of choices just got much wider. I'm seeing a few things I want to try out, double dragon, double griffon, double fire phoenix with MoCT for triple waking fun. The main one I'm excited to try is an OotFH mage on a dragon with alchemy, prince of Ryma with Nova lance and BSB with paired weapons and hero sword enchant in a Ryma unit with the Ryma banner. BSB carries flaming standard (I assume this will be the cheaper standard). OotFH makes something flammable with Alchemy then combo charges with the Ryma bus. 7 ST6 attacks from dragon, 6 ST7 attacks from Prince, 5 ST6 attacks from BSB and 12 ST7 attacks from unit (assuming unit of 8 ) all with rerolls to wound. Second round of combat the rerolls are lost except on dragon (flaming only use now) but prince and dragon still hit at same power level, BSB and unit lose 1ST due to Ryma and units attacks drop to ST4. It sounds glorious but I need to see if those chars can fit in the points.

Other option is OotfH on foot with the bus but makes it a little less mobile.

Looking forward to playing around with the army lists when it gets released!


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 Post subject: Re: The Learning Curve
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Green Istari

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Location: Otherworld
20phoenix wrote:
Played a game last night against gunline Ogres.

List looks similar to one I played at an 8th edition tournament, though I’m sure it works a bit differently in 9th Age.

20phoenix wrote:
He then failed a rerollable 9 with his general who ran!

:)

20phoenix wrote:
had this down as a loss as his list murders T3 AS5+ troops

Ogres have always been a tricky foe for us but Ancient Dragon vs no cannon helps a lot.

20phoenix wrote:
managed to take advantage of a couple of openings.

You seemed to use elf manoeuvrability really well 20phoenix.

20phoenix wrote:
Ancient Dragon - Losing a pip of toughness

This sound bad, in 8th at least T7 is one of the best things about the Star Dragon.

20phoenix wrote:
Basically access to 1+ on foot.

This sounds awesome! 1+ is way, way hard to get on foot characters.

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