Here we are again. New "army list", new disappointment with how the ice cube holding High Elves are just vastly superior all around.
Bitter? Yes, yes I am.
Hopefully when the actual "Exile" and "Highborn" lists come out, they won't just be basically mirror images of each other except for the Highborn just being better.
Overall analysis:
Shooting: Highborn BY FAR.
Combat: We'll call it a wash. Though Highborn do have more Rend overall, and generally have better weapons. (see below)
Speed: Highborn.
Magic: Close here, but Highborn again. (more spells, Teclis can cast/unbind 3x, Exiles only have 2 really useful spells)
Army Synergy: Highborn (Lothern, Phoenix, Sisters, Shadow Warriors) beats Exiles (Witch Elves, Corsairs)
Ridden Monsters: Highborn.
Regular Monsters: Wash.
Battleshock prevention: Exiles. (whoopie)
Comparable unit analysis:
Prince on Dragon vs. Dreadlord on Dragon:
-Dragon Lance dominates Lance of Spite big time.
-Dragonfire has double the range of Noxious Gas and always causes at least 1 mortal wound.
-Prince has a very useful once per game ability, Dreadlord has nothing.
-Prince has a vastly superior Command Ability.
Score: 4 - 0 Prince.
Prince on Griffon vs. Beastmaster on Manticore:
-Prince's weapons vastly outclass Beastmaster's.
-Manticore doesn't fly for whatever reason.
-Manticore has a 12" move at full strength, Griffon has a 16" move.
-Prince has a better save.
-Manticore has better "top end damage" to Griffon.
Score: 4 - 1 Prince.
(edit: note, I didn't even bother comparing an Annointed on Phoenix because those are so f***ing good comparatively it wasn't worth it.)
Lothern Sea Helm vs. Black Ark Fleetmaster
-Fleetmaster is superior in close combat.
-Sea Helm has a better overall save.
-Sea Helm has a vastly superior Command Ability.
-Sea Helm can carry a banner.
-Lothern Sea Guard and Skycutters have synergy with the Sea Helm, and Corsairs have no direct synergy with the Fleetmaster.
Score: 4 - 1 Sea Helm.
Ellyrion Reavers vs. Dark Riders:
-Reavers have better shooting.
-Reavers have vastly superior movement.
-Riders have an ability that works only 1 in 6 times in the battleshock phase, which is a crapshoot to happen itself, and Reavers have an ability that works every turn and synergizes with what they do well.
-Riders can take a command and have shields (but not a better save...we couldn't have Exiles beating out Highborn now could we?)
Score: 2.5 - 1 Reavers.
Dragon Princes vs. Cold One Knights
-Princes have 2 attacks, CoK have 1.
-CoK have a 2" range on their attacks
-Cold Ones hit easier.
-Cold Ones have better direct synergy to Dreadlord on Cold One but only if he is the general and uses his Command Ability.
-Princes have a secondary ability and CoK have nothing.
-Dragon Princes are faster.
Score: 2.5 - 2.5 Tie.
Shadow Warriors vs. Shades:
-Shadow Warriors have a better save.
-Shadow Warriors hit easier in combat.
-Shadow Warriors have EXTREMELY good synergy with Alith Anar - Shades have no synergies.
-Shades have a better deployment ability.
-Shades lost the ability to have a command group (we have to be the same as shadow warriors, unless they are better then it's ok)
Score: 3-1 Shadow Warriors.
RBT vs. RBT:
Math has proven that overall the Exile RBT is slightly better.
Score: 1-0 Reaper (we win one!)
Black Guard vs. Phoenix Guard:
-Phoenix Guard have a way, way, WAYYYYYY better save, and in fact one of the best saves in the game.
-Phoenix Guard have a better synergy with other units in the army, since their synergy isn't completely based on one special character, and 100% redundant with that special character's Command Ability.
-Black Guard hit harder.
-Aura of Dread beats any of the similar Exile abilities since it automatically works instead of forcing you to roll a 6 on a die.
Score: 3.5 - 1. (Witness to Destiny is so good in AoS that it deserves a 1.5 score)
So I hope in here you've detected my overall bitterness and I just wanted you to know that every time you do well in AoS, it's because your army is handicapping you to do well.
Let's chat quickly about how Highborn >>> Exiles in AoS
-
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:30 pm
- Location: the Shadowlands
Let's chat quickly about how Highborn >>> Exiles in AoS
"...and he shall rise fore'er more"
Re: Let's chat quickly about how Highborn >>> Exiles in AoS
So bring more models, do more silly walks, pick the units that perform
It's not as if there's a points limit any more
It's not as if there's a points limit any more
Bring me my bow of burning gold, bring me my arrows of desire, bring me my spear O' Clouds unfold, bring me my chariot of FIRE!
Check out my rather slow caledor themed painting log and my dragon project... also my faster moving nurgle themed Warriors of Chaos themed painting log
Check out my rather slow caledor themed painting log and my dragon project... also my faster moving nurgle themed Warriors of Chaos themed painting log
- John Rainbow
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:47 am
- Location: PA, USA
Re: Let's chat quickly about how Highborn >>> Exiles in AoS
I don't get it. Are you trying to make out that DE were been inferior to HE in prior editions too?
-
- Posts: 246
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:11 am
Re: Let's chat quickly about how Highborn >>> Exiles in AoS
I'd say Malekith is far superior in AoS to any High Elf warscroll. But otherwise it does seem like the Highborn are a bit better.
As for previous editions, I'd say in 8th that Dark Elves had better core infantry, better generic characters, and better fast cavalry. But High Elves had the book, bird and banner, plus better special infantry and heavy cavalry. The two factions were both pretty good and quite closely balanced overall. But that's just my opinion, I'm sure others would disagree.
As for previous editions, I'd say in 8th that Dark Elves had better core infantry, better generic characters, and better fast cavalry. But High Elves had the book, bird and banner, plus better special infantry and heavy cavalry. The two factions were both pretty good and quite closely balanced overall. But that's just my opinion, I'm sure others would disagree.
Re: Let's chat quickly about how Highborn >>> Exiles in AoS
Given how unbelievably broken 7th and 8th ed dark elves were, I think most people are quite pleased to see them toned down a bit. In uncomped warhammer a competitive dark elf army would just blow everyone else out of the water. The pegmaster with twilight cloak, dark riders, brolock stars with 3+ fast cav 1+ armour masters in them, morathi, even the dreadlord on black dragon was pretty awesome (it had hatred high elves too!) they had so much that hit very hard very fast without you being able to hit it back effectively. And witch elves if they ever wanted to just blend stuff in combat. I used them quite a lot towards the end of 8th and it was just hilarious how good they were.
High elves have become very strong, definitely the strongest of the elves (as is right :p), there's too much army synergy tbh, it's too easy. The seahelm banner is better than pretty much every command ability, phoenix guard are absolutely incredible, they just don't die, which basically takes battleshock out of the equation too. Caradryan's a beast and has an awesome command ability (with the seahelm banner makes a lot of our units wound on 2's rerolling 1's) But no points, so this conversation is redundant, just take more stuff...
p.s. warlocks are still pretty good, not 8th ed good but doombolt still hits hard.
EDIT: Having played vs summoning though, armies with summonning >>>>> armies without it.
High elves have become very strong, definitely the strongest of the elves (as is right :p), there's too much army synergy tbh, it's too easy. The seahelm banner is better than pretty much every command ability, phoenix guard are absolutely incredible, they just don't die, which basically takes battleshock out of the equation too. Caradryan's a beast and has an awesome command ability (with the seahelm banner makes a lot of our units wound on 2's rerolling 1's) But no points, so this conversation is redundant, just take more stuff...
p.s. warlocks are still pretty good, not 8th ed good but doombolt still hits hard.
EDIT: Having played vs summoning though, armies with summonning >>>>> armies without it.
-
- Green Istari
- Posts: 13841
- Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
- Location: Otherworld
Re: Let's chat quickly about how Highborn >>> Exiles in AoS
What the guys said.
Dark Elves clearly stronger than High 2008-2015.
Dark Elves clearly stronger than High 2008-2015.
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001
-
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:45 am
- Location: Tor Ittelrac
Re: Let's chat quickly about how Highborn >>> Exiles in AoS
It is precisely because there are no points in AOS that it is more important than ever to downplay your toys and talk up your opponent's toys, so that it becomes the accepted wisdom.
White Lion * Aestyrion * Griffon Knight
Malekith stepped down from his throne and loomed over the mage. ‘You have always intended for Tyrion to draw the Widowmaker.’
Teclis nodded, defiant. 'By drawing again His sword, the curse of Khaine will be lifted from our line.'
Malekith stepped down from his throne and loomed over the mage. ‘You have always intended for Tyrion to draw the Widowmaker.’
Teclis nodded, defiant. 'By drawing again His sword, the curse of Khaine will be lifted from our line.'