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 Post subject: Is it any good
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:17 pm 
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Some time has passed, is AoS any good?


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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:35 pm 
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I cannot possibly comment as I've never played it (refuse to!), but define "Any good" and maybe quantify more what you're looking for in a game?

To me from what I read when it was first released doing away with points lists was a fundamental I would never get on board with and I hate they moved away from square bases/rank and file. For that alone they've lost me completely.

That being said I'm sure some people like the game...


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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:29 am 
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Gandalf_82 wrote:
define "Any good" and maybe quantify more what you're looking for in a game

This is probably an important point.

From what I can see the game has been getting better with each release. They've added a points system in the generals handbook and overall improved. They seem to be listening to community feedback in where they are going with the game. Still, it's very different from what warhammer was and is probably closer to 40k or LoTR in terms of gameplay. Although both of those are more intricate and complex then AoS.

Still, given the rules light nature of AoS it's not too difficult to get started and try a few games. One of the real advantages of AoS is that you can get started playing with only a single box of miniatures. I think that if one of my daughters would show interest in a game somewhere in the future then this is what I would start with.

Give it a try and see what you think. Can't really go wrong with free rules ;)

Rod

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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:55 am 
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I quite like it, and it still feels like a fantasy wargame. It's still very tactical. For one, it's easier to play with faints, retreats and counter-attacks. How you play the synergy between units is more important than in WFB in a way.

But it is less technical. In WFB you could angle a unit to control an enemy's overrun direction, because it made sense that a horde would run off the board when they bumped into a single harpy along the way (apparently). How you angle a unit could make the difference in the game through a good or a bad overrun, a can or can not charge, a flank or a front. It could boil down to an inch. Just look at box cars tactics in WFB.
AoS does have some finer points to it, in controlling "where" you'll fight and how you manage the pile-in. But it doesn't have these finer technical points (IMO) which were both great and absurd in WFB.

Overall, I enjoyed almost every AoS game I played like I enjoyed almost every WFB game. I still get a bigger kick out of WFB, but I find AoS so much more accessible and smooth to play. I can probably play 2 AoS games in the time I found the right page to win my rules debate in WFB :P

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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:31 pm 
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I played a number of games very early on with the gaming group I used to play WHFB. We used a system of points created in house because the games could be so unbalanced. We also came up with some scenarios and different battlefields.

Personally, I wasn't terribly impressed. Granted, this was early on so understand things may have changed.

My main beef was the pile in method of combat. In all the games I played, eventually it just became one huge fight somewhere on the battlefield where the majority of models would battle things out. Skirmished units did create a level of tactical feel for the battles, but frequently the tactics came down to unit activation.

My other beef was the rolling to determine who went first EACH turn. Instead of something reasonably predictable (either AB, AB method or AB, BA method) a game could turn literally on single dice roll as early as after the first turn. That drove me nuts.

The magic system AoS used also left me wanting. As HE had an additional nuance with the need to use magic well to get the most out of our squishy elves.

The WHFB community at the club I played at pretty much exclusively switched to KoW.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Teledor wrote:
My main beef was the pile in method of combat. In all the games I played, eventually it just became one huge fight somewhere on the battlefield where the majority of models would battle things out. Skirmished units did create a level of tactical feel for the battles, but frequently the tactics came down to unit activation.

My other beef was the rolling to determine who went first EACH turn. Instead of something reasonably predictable (either AB, AB method or AB, BA method) a game could turn literally on single dice roll as early as after the first turn. That drove me nuts.

The magic system AoS used also left me wanting. As HE had an additional nuance with the need to use magic well to get the most out of our squishy elves.


Some of these echo my initial impressions as well, but that changed considerably since the start of the game. I would recommend the general's handbook and the scenarios. With more terrain, and the scenarios, the game's dynamic changes completely. The big scrum in the middle (or somewhere) can happen when there's no scenario to force you to split the troops and commit on several places. It happened to me as well, when I played with WFB logic.

The roll for initiative on the turns is an odd one. I didn't like it initially, but again, with the scenarios and terrain it becomes a tactical element. Just today I had a few moments were it offered an interesting role and benefit to the game. IE: Mystical terrain gave me re-rolls on the wound and my general was locked with a tarpit in combat... By letting my opponent go first, I knew for sure I would retain my re-rolls and had a chance of clearing the tarpit unit on his turn, so that I could be free and charge in mine. It really depends on the game and scenario.

I'd recommend playing a few small games with slightly more experienced players. It will help considerably in shaping the game in the right way.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:30 am 
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Reading here, it actually sounds a bit like the state of Warhammer at the start of 8th edition. A lot of people felt the game lacked a few things because of changes that happened when going from 7th to 8th edition. And games ended up being about large hordes running straight at each other and fighting it out in the middle. The as people got a few more games in and started exploring the different tactics the game offered things improved and people found that there was a lot of depth in the game still and it actually worked well. You just needed to think outside the 7th edition mindset.

The same probably applies to AoS. You need to approach it as a new game and not as a continuation of WH. I do think that the game was unfinished when it was launched. And that only now, with the general's handbook and extensions that have come out, it has become a complete and 'finished' game. I'll see if I can get my regular opponent to give it a try some day. Especially the shorter game duration feels like a bonus. For a game of WH I need to plan a complete free evening, or even a few for very big games (we're not the fastest players). And I have very few of those these days, with a couple of young kids at home. Having a game which takes an hour or maybe 2 to set up play and pack up again would be easier to plan for.

@Daeron: what kind of list do you normally run for games?

Rod

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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:29 pm 
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What is the rock paper scissor game? What beats what and how?


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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:50 am 
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Tried a game of it...

The basic rules needs som work.

But all in all it was quite nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:21 am 
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Botjer wrote:
Tried a game of it...

The basic rules needs som work.

But all in all it was quite nice.

sounds like a good starting place for the game :)

I think the add on books add a lot to the game. Both in terms of balance and gameplay and also with objectives and scenario's. Perhaps give one of them a spin.

Rod

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Eirik wrote:
Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:37 pm 
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There are some stupid things in main rules. But anyone can just house rule it to work better.

Example, a unit must be ON a piece of terrain to gain coverbonus.

They do not gain cover bonus if they are behind.

This is easily fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:28 am 
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That sounds silly indeed. So a unit behind a wall gains no cover bonus, but a unit standing in plain sight on a hill does?

Not that hard to house rule indeed. It's probably easier to do so with AoS then with WH anyway, since there are a lot fewer rules to keep in mind when house ruling.

Rod

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Eirik wrote:
Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

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PS: Bring cookies!

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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:17 am 
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Also each and every terrain feature has random rules...

its a tad silly :P

but i think the basic idea of the game is pretty sound.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:29 am 
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Actually, it did that in 8th edition as well. If you followed all the rules at least you had to roll for mysterious terrain for each and every terrain piece on the table. I always thought it silly. Usually a hill is just a hill and a forest just a forest. A world where is piece of land you step on will hurt you in some way is just unliveable. So I always simply ignored that part of the rules... :P

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Eirik wrote:
Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 166/18/104


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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:53 am 
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Same here.

Thinking of trying aos in series of small battles 500 points or so.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:56 am 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
Actually, it did that in 8th edition as well. If you followed all the rules at least you had to roll for mysterious terrain for each and every terrain piece on the table. I always thought it silly. Usually a hill is just a hill and a forest just a forest. A world where is piece of land you step on will hurt you in some way is just unliveable. So I always simply ignored that part of the rules... :P


Hear, hear! The idea of having models for stuff is (partly) so that you don't have to remember what a particular piece is. A forest is a forest - mysterious terrain was a bit silly but AoS took it a step further doing away with any distinction in terrain effect - you roll the same table for a hill/swamp/field/forest.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it any good
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:42 pm 
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But I've fallen in love with the command and control systems in games like warmaster, hail caesar and dragon rampant. Too bad AoS doesnt feature that.


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