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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:45 pm 
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Southern Sentinel
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Greetings!

After first KoW game between myself and Eastern Barbarian we decided it cannot go without a re-match. It was only a matter of time. However, EB also was wondering if he should bring Orcs again or shall he try Forces of Abyss instead, that looked very interesting to him from the very beginning. It is quite typical for EB to jump into new game and tackle a few forces at the same time and he decided to give Mantic Daemons a go!

Forces of Abyss - Army List

20 Succubi, Regiment, Mace of Crushing - 195
- 10 Flamebearers, Troop - 105
- 10 Flamebearers, Troop - 105
- Abyssal Temptress, Hero, Bane Chant - 105

20 Succubi, Regiment - 190
- 10 Gargoyles, Troop - 80
- Chroneas, Monster - 210

10 Abyssal Horsemen, Regiment, Potion of the Caterpillar (Pathfinder) - 235
- Abyssal Champion, Hero, mounted - 155

10 Abyssal Horsemen, Regiment - 215
- Abyssal Harbinger, Hero - 60

3 Tortured Souls, Regiment - 145

6 Molochs, Horde - 200

Army wide rule is Fury, meaning that unit can still counter-charge even if wavered. That is a very handy and aggressive rule for sure! As usual I will try to assess the enemy units with a little bit more detail:

20 Succubi - Very fast infantry, with 25 attacks hitting on 3+ they will do some damage even to the well armored foes. At the same time they have only 3+ defense making them very vulnerable. It is mitigated by Ensnare and Stealthy special rules that apply -1 to hit penalty for melee and shooting attacks, respectively. They will be a match for any infantry I have and I expect they will want to get into combat fast, as the sooner they get in the better.

2 x 10 Flamebearers - Very interesting shooting troops. On one hand, 18 inches of the range is a little bit shorter than usual (at least I got used to 24 inches) but on the other it is balanced by Piercing (1). They are fragile, with 3+ defense but have Regeneration 5+ to help them out. I will definitely try to take them out early because I have a few fragile regiments myself and limiting enemy ranged attacks is always a good thing.

10 Gargoyles - Gargoyles are one of the irregular troops and are definitely very useful as war machines hunters. They fly which in itself is a great asset. They are fragile but also regenerate very fast. It looks like some kind of pattern for Abyss armies to be fragile but able to heal back! Another priority, in particular for shooters, as they cannot be allowed to move behind my lines as that can be dangerous even for well armored units.

Chroneas - Chroneas was so good that recent rules state that it is one choice unit per army only. It is tough, with a very good nerve and massive 20 breath attacks that are also Piercing (1). That sounds like a death sentence for many units that go nearby. Fortunately, it is only movement 5 so effective range is 17 inches. Possible to avoid for a turn or two but then the armies need to get into combats. And that is when Chroneas can also be very dangerous as it can simply pick up damaged units to finish it off. What is more it cannot be Disordered so even if you damage it in melee it can shoot at you next. Quite important as it cannot fight at all. I would need dedicated melee units to fight it and I expect I will suffer from its breath attacks anyway.

2 x 10 Abyssal Horsemen - heavy cavalry but slightly better, in my opinion, than typical knights since they have Crushing Strength(1) and Thunderous Charge(1). It means they still hit hard even if hindered. One of the units has Pathfinder anyway but the tactics where the Knights are charged to strip them off TC is not as efficient here. They are slightly slower though so that could be the edge I could use against them. And of course Bolt Throwers help :)

3 Tortured Souls - another intriguing unit that is not simple equivalent of what I have in the army (such as knights vs horsemen). They are very fast in charge but can't move at a double due to Shambling. They have good nerve and cannot be wavered at all. Average defense but life leech that will help them heal. Also, Crushing Strength(2) on a flying unit is a big advantage. I would need to be very careful with them as I cannot allow any flank charges for them. It will be a little more difficult for them to get behind my lines without the ability to move at a double but they are still quite maneuverable.

6 Molochs - Molochs look like the toughest enemy unit for me. They are a steamroller. 24 attack with CS(2) and Brutal may rout many enemies on the charge. At least they have defense 4+ and movement 5. Slower enemy is easier to outmaneuver and with defense 4+ my own heavy hitters can actually do quite some damage too. Hopefully, I will be able to hit them first and hard enough to eliminate the danger.

Characters - there are 3 characters in the army. Champion and Harbinger provide sources of inspire while Temptress adds a little bit of magic. Champion is also fast and hits reasonably hard for a character. It can easily get my flanks or even charge the shooters to disorder them.

In general, I faced the army with similar amount of elements, with some fast and hard hitting units too. There is a shooting support but I think my army has an advantage here. Forces of Abyss might be a little bit slower if you compare the units of the same category but I think more of them hit harder than the Elven counterparts.

Here is the army I used for this game (I used the same force I have been using for a few recent games):

Outcasts - Army List

10 Stormwind, Regiment, Potion of the Caterpillar (Pathfinder) - 235
- 5 Silverbreeze, Troop - 145
- 5 Silverbreeze, Troop - 145
- Drakon Rider Lord, Hero, Large Cavalry - 160

3 Drakon Riders, Regiment - 175
- 5 Stormwind, Troops - 140
- Bolt Thrower, War Machine - 90

20 Palace Guard, Regiment - 150
- 10 Archers - 115
- 10 Archers - 115
- Bolt Thrower, War Machine - 90

20 Spearelves, Regiment - 140
- Elven Mage, Inspire, Bane Chant - 110

20 Spearelves, Regiment - 140
- Battle Standard Bearer, Hero - 50

As it worked in previous battles, I wanted to use my shooting to eliminate enemy support (shooting and flying) to get advantage in the movement phase. I think I would benefit in not committing to melee in the form of frontal charges unless able to bring two units against one and when the target is lightly armored or damaged already. I was very curious and excited about this game because I think the armies are evenly matched with particular strengths and weaknesses that should make the difference in the end result.

Terrain

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Terrain

We used the following heights for respective terrain pieces:

Hill - 2
Forests - 4
Rocks - blocking, 2
Walls - obstacles, 1
Ruins - difficult, 0

Deployment

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Deployment Order

Deployment Order:

1. Flamebearers (F1) - Archers (A1)
2. Gargoyles - Silver Breeze (SB1)
3. Flamebearers (F2) - Archers (A2)
4. Tortured Souls - Silver Breeze (SB2)
5. Abyssal Champion - Bolt Thrower (BT1)
6. Abyssal Horsemen (AH1) - Bolt Thrower (BT2)
7. Succubi (S1) - Spearelves (S1)
8. Abyssal Horsemen (AH2) - Storm Wind (SW2)
9. Succubi (S2) - Spearelves (S2)
10. Chroneas - Palace Guard
11. Temptress - BSB
12. Harbinger - Mage
13. Molochs - Rest of the Army

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Final Deployment

Deployment phase is always very interesting and tricky one. I have found that I tend to come up with some frame for a plan when I see the enemy army and the terrain but then during the deployment process it still goes through many iterations and changes. Not sure if it is good or bad :)

The initial plan was that I wanted to use middle rocks to my advantage. I knew it would divide our forces in two. So the first idea was to try and have overwhelming force on one half and enough resources on the other to successfully delay the enemy. I thought I would go with heavy cavalry on the left flank but when EB deployed his own horsemen there it didn't look that easy. I may have extra charge range but I didn't want to create kind of stalemate and be slowed down just because two cavalry forces would be too cautious.

Then I decided it actually creates an opportunity to carry on with the plan, just with different execution. Instead of positioning the cavalry on the flank I went to the center because that allowed me to still threaten the forces on the left. At the same time I could use sheer speed to attack slower half on the right and maybe even get the fliers to flank/rear charges.

The question was, would EB press forward on the left and if yes, would the small forces there be enough to slow him down.

Only one way to find out! :)

I won the roll off and took the first turn.

Outcasts - Turn 1

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Advance!

Elves moved forward across entire battle line. On the left, the units advanced to get into the range of the enemy and let lose. They inflicted some damage and wavered the flame bearing daemons.

On the right the advance was a little bit more aggressive, with cavalry units moving to have their foes in the charge range that would force them to either move away and give up the terrain or move forward to meet the thunderous charge head on.

Forces of Abyss - Turn 1

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Abyssal Horsemen gallop forward!

Daemonic horsemen didn't wait and galloped forward towards the few weak looking shooters of the Elven army. Only Molochs turned towards the center to support the other flank while nearby Chroneas moved towards Elven knights, tempting them to attack.

Gargoyles spotted a safe landing zone on the extreme flank and swooped past Drakons.

Outcasts - Turn 2

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Preemptive strikes

Elves decided to slow down enemy advance with some charges that didn't have a chance to rout the enemy but ensured the foes would have to stop to counter attack.

The forces on the right continued outflanking while the shooters aimed at their chosen targets. On the Eastern front, Archers pivoted and shot at gargoyles and were lucky to banish the flying daemons to the abyss they came from. Nearby fast cavalry silenced Flamebearers too if only for a while.

Then on the left flank, combined effort of the fast cavalry, archers and both bolt throwers inflicted a serious damage on one of the horsemen regiments and the survivors fled to safety!

Forces of Abyss - Turn 2

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Counter-Charge!

Forces of Abyss counter attacked and isolated Elven units stood no chance. However, their noble sacrifices would be avenged. At least that was the plan of the Elven commanders.

The shooters were quite limited in what they could do as only left Flamebearers had a good target. However, Elven fast cavalry was not impressed.

Outcasts - Turn 3

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First wave attacks on the right!

With some of the faster elements on the left flank in no position to aid their right, Elves decided on the charge in strength.

Fast cavalry distracted Molochs so that they would not be able to attack exposed flank of the knights. Storm Wind cavalry and Drakons charged Succubi that overextended in their previous attack and could not prevent being flanked by one or the other and were smashed by heavy hitters.

Drakon Lord finished off nearby Flamebearers and Elven units reformed to brace for impact. It was clear the Forces of Abyss would counter immediately and second wave of Elven army was ready to support too.

In the meantime, the shooters tried to repeat the fit and targeted enemy horsemen but this time damage was not as impressive. Thanks to another noble sacrifice, however, they will have one more chance to do so.

Forces of Abyss - Turn 3

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Forces of Abyss stopped!

Forces of Abyss pressed forward once more. On the left, Archers were positioned a little bit too much forward and paid ultimate price for their mistake. Noble BSB died and saved only Bolt Thrower crew from certain death.

On the right Molochs and Tortured Souls attacked Elven cavalry but while Silver Breeze was not a problem for Molochs, heavy armored knights didn't care much. Finally, Chroneas tried to rout Drakon Riders but they refused to do so despite significant damage.

Outcasts - Turn 4

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Another heavy blow!

With the momentum of the Forces of Abyss attack slowed down it was time to seize the opportunity to strike a killing blow.

Storm Wind cavalry, despite broken lances, charged in and made room for Palace Guard to team up against Tortured Souls. Daemons suffered heavy casualties and could not hold against such a powerful attack.

Drakon Riders flew over the heads of the combatants and landed behind the enemy lines to attack from the rear. But Drakon Lord and Spearelves didn't need any help. Surprisingly, their charge was powerful enough to rout Molochs anyway. All that despite the lack of magical support as the mage could not get his spells through.

The swift attack of Succubi on the left exposed the nearby horsemen who once again were a target for the shooters. Fast cavalry and both bolt throwers hit home and second regiment of horsemen routed, with their general a little bit too far away to make them hold the line.

Forces of Abyss - Turn 4

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Situation at the beginning of a turn 4

At this stage EB decided to call it as he was left with only a few isolated elements. I expect he would get my Bolt Thrower with his general easy, possibly fast cavalry with flamerbearers and wounded drakon riders looked like a prime target for Chroneas.

But it was clear I could still mount a few powerful attacks to seal the deal and keep the advantage. I was surprised the game was over so quickly as I didn't expect it to be so brutal and so decisive at all.

Summary

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Turn by turn animation summary


After-battle thoughts


First of all I would like to thank EB for a game. I know it was not easy and I am myself surprised how efficient my own army was. We talked about the battle just after it and the first impression was not good. It didn't look, at first glance, that EB made any glaring mistakes and that his army is weak. It was not good then because it was hard to learn from the defeat and get better next time. However, I hope I can provide some further comments I formulated while writing a report. As many times before, I could see, I think, options that were missed during the game.

Let's start with the deployment. The fact there were two regiments of cavalry one one flank is not a mistake. However, we both noticed that the fact they were facing directly South limited their movement because EB wanted to move them a little bit towards the center. That, however, meant pivoting and no "at a double" order. Second, his Champion started the game a little bit too far away from them. I think these three at least should have formed a team and stay together.

I have also observed from my own games that it might be good idea to shield troop type of the units at the very start since they have low nerve value. Even with inspire they still can be wavered and kind of useless, in particular when have shooting abilities. I think then, that very fragile Flamebearers should have started in a second line, despite the fact their shorter range might force them to deploy closer to the enemy. It might be better though to have them move at a double behind the other units first and stay healthy for shooting later on.

I wonder if caution on right flank was not required. My cavalry was at maximum range so a little pull back would force me to move forward only and buy more time for the horsemen on the left. I understand why Chroneas moved forward too but again, I think it would be more valuable as kind of reserve floating around and threaten backyard, in particular if drakons were about to land there.

I admit the shooting was very efficient. Of course I would like to point out that it took several units shooting at a single target for two turns to be able to rout them. But it is still impressive to rout two heavy cavalry units with shooting alone.

I didn't miss with Bolt Throwers much this game and when I multiplied the number of hits I usually got around 4 total. But when I looked at the game again, I think a few factors helped me here.

First, BT1 had a clear line of sight to the horsemen when an inch back would probable mean some cover. I would need to check the exact rolls but it is always good idea to get any cover from any source. Second, while they got a lot of damage having inspiring champion nearby would still increase the chances of both regiments to survive.

Next, I think that charging Spearelves with Horsemen and Succubi was overkill. I think it was possible to tie Spearelves in combat with Succubi, who might have done the job in a single turn anyway. And charge Bolt Thrower or Archers with them instead. That immediately limits the number of shots received and nets some points in the process. Finally, the proximity of mounted champion would allow to attack Bolt Thrower and Archers at the same time, effectively overrunning that flank.

Now I had a look at these massive combats on the right flank. First, apart from the fact that Chroneas should have stayed as a reserve and scare away fliers from landing behind the lines, I think there was no need to Molochs and Succubi to charge against Storm Wind troops together. Molochs would do the job alone perfectly. But Succubi exposed the flank to the Drakons or Heavy Cavalry, no matter how they reformed. I think that instead they could again pull back a little or at least offer only front as that might prove problematic for alignment of the attackers.

Then the reform of the Molochs left that space for Drakon Lord to flank charge them. He was responsible for something like 9 damage points! If only they shifted a little they would have been safe. I would have charged them with Spears anyway, to block them and help winning against Tortured Souls but then I would have been sacrificing another unit.

All these situations helped me to achieve the victory. Some of them seem to me now that type of details that simply come from experience, even a few more games should be sufficient to get that feel of how you can move and what are the consequences. Despite some devastating charges, this time that area of flank exposure was small. So I think a little more attention in the future would prevent that entirely.

I am glad that EB already is plotting a revenge and he has already told me about some tweaks to the army list he plans to use next time. While I think army list building is something that always can be addressed, at this very early stage it is probably more about getting units you are simply comfortable with.

As always, thanks for reading and if you liked the report, please leave a comment or two!

Cheers!

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High Elves MSU - Observations

Rabidnid wrote:
Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


Last edited by Swordmaster of Hoeth on Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:59 pm 
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Thanks for the batrep (are you posting these anywhere else btw - mantic forums, ozzie forums, etc? - seems a shame not to cross post, especially with traffic here being a bit low these days).

Anyway, particularly liked your analysis at the end. From your intro I didn't expect it to be all over so fast as the armies sounded balanced. As you say, a few of the ideas you mention will probably come with XP. None of your comments were obvious to me and it's interesting that most of this came to you (I gather) post-game and indeed possible even through the bat rep writing rather than during/immidiate post-match dissection with EB.

I might be playing my first KoW game sometime in the next few weeks - I expect I will re-read your reports then when the mechanics are more meaningful to me.

Cheers,
Ferny

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:46 am 
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Hi Ferny,

Indeed, I post my reports in other forums. I have been doing that for some time with WHFB. Being new in KoW it makes even more sense to show my games to as many people as possible and to learn from their expertise.

And while traffic at Ulthuan is almost non existent it is always good to post the reports here just for old friends to have something to read from time to time. :)

I was concerned that the game looked so one sided and I really wanted to understand why. I have observed it many times before that even in WHFB where I had much more experience, the focus on the game often results in narrower vision. What I mean by that is that during the game I focus on what I can do the the enemy and try to let him worry about it than the other way around. Writing a battle report gives me the opportunity to step back and reflect upon my decisions but also look at the big picture and/or from the point of view of my enemy.

I think that is the main reason why I can make some additional observations and I also wanted to write them down because they serve as kind of archive. I am learning new game and here are my conclusions for now. I will see if they are going to hold true after some time when I get better and understand the system deeper. I hoped that more experienced players would look at them and correct me if needed too.

It was a process because immediate discussion with EB was about his point of view and what he perceived as turning points of the game. That helped me to look at these things while writing the report. We got some very good comments on mantic forum too.

I am glad to hear you might be trying KoW at some stage as I think it is really good game. Might not suit every former player of WHFB but it is definitely a good system. Have you decided on the army you are going to field, both in terms "army book" and the exact composition?

I suggest you forget all your habits from WHFB anyway and treat KoW as a completely new game that allows you to use the same miniatures. Many players (me including) with whom I have played or talked say that in the first games the WHFB experience led to wrong decisions and perception of what can be done :)

Cheers!

P.S. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask! I would love to generate the discussion here and it would also help me to understand the game better if I need to address some comments. :)

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High Elves MSU - Observations

Rabidnid wrote:
Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:15 am 
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Well I'm glad you're still posting here, I don't haunt many other WH sites and I like to read them, although I miss being able to discuss them as we did with 8th. Hopefully if/when I start playing we'll get a bit of back and forth goign again. I like the archive idea - that's the main reason I would want to re-read once I've played the game - to try and pick up from your learning curve. Who knows, I may necromance some old threads :roll:

I'll be playing 'High Elves' in KoW, certainly as my main/starting army. I do also have undead models (actually, mostly mantic - too good value to turn down) and bits and bobs from other armies, but HE are my mainstay. Assuming I like how they play in KoW I'll stick with them there too.

Army list - I've no idea! I'll probably ask my opponent to make me a 'sensible' starting list for my first game and I'll supply the models, and take it from there. From reading your reports I expect it will take a few games to get a basic feel for it, and to get out of any warhammer habits which don't translate smoothly, so I don't really have strong views on list building yet.

Incidentally, I played my first game of warhammer (8th) in nearly a year a fortnight ago and lost marginally, but worse than that, I basically forgot how to play! Not the rules, but tactics...very, very, very rusty! I've signed up to a 9th Age tourney in a couple of weeks time mostly to get more gaming in...and again like KoW I don't know the system (or the meta, such as it might be) so my list building will be based around painted models available rather than strategic plans. I'm not expecting stellar performances but I'm really just excited to be playing again :D. (I'm planning to take photos and some basic notes and put short reports on T9A forum seen as they're after playtest data...I'm concious that mine will be biased poor, but the game needs to play sound for beginners as well as pros so it's still useful I think).

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:18 pm 
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Hi Ferny,

The idea of archive was one of the reasons I started a separate blog. It proved to be a good choice when websites go down due to various problems. I would not like to lose all these reports I wrote over years!

If you are concerned with thredomancy then you can always click the picture in my signature that will take you directly to the blog and we can discuss things there.

I am still learning how to use Elves in KoW but I must say I think they work better there than in WHFB if you think about the typical image of HE army. They hit fast and hard (through the combination of higher speed and Elite special rule) but might no be good in the war of attrition. They have good shooting but as an Elite army they are not cheap and my be outnumbered and still need to combine charges more often than not.

Good luck on the tournament!

Cheers!

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High Elves MSU - Observations

Rabidnid wrote:
Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:26 pm 
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Greetings!

I have had two games of Kings of War recently but the first one was not finished yet. Hopefully we will be able to find time to do it as I am very curious about the outcome in the scenario. In the second game, I played a re-match against Eastern Barbarian and his Forces of Abyss. We had some great feedback on Mantic Forum about our previous encounter and EB was very eager to incorporate new ideas as well as test his modified army list. We also decided to try a scenario to spice it all up too!

Forces of Abyss - Army List

20 Succubi, Regiment, Mace of Crushing - 195
- 10 Gargoyles, Troop - 80
- Abyssal Temptress, Hero, Bane Chant, Wind Blast - 135

20 Succubi, Regiment - 190
- The Well of Souls - 275

20 Flamebearers, Regiment - 140

20 Flamebearers, Regiment - 140
- Efreet, Hero, Inspiring Talisman - 155

10 Abyssal Horsemen, Regiment, Potion of the Caterpillar (Pathfinder) - 235

10 Abyssal Horsemen, Regiment, Brew of Haste (+1 Speed) - 230

6 Tortured Souls, Horde, Blade of Slashing - 225

In general the army has the same feel as it's previous version but there are some important changes.

1. Flamebearers and Efreet - together they form a very nice, mobile firebase. Regiments instead of troops means they are not going to rout so quickly. More shots per turn is nice but main improvement is in their suitability. Efreet was there to inspire but also to add some fireballs and I must say they look very good as second line that either protects the rear or provides shooting support to the first line of attack.

2. Abyssal Horsemen - one of the regiments got +1 speed making them as fast as Elven cavalry and I must say it is a very nice addition. It does not look like much at first glance but these guys are now more dangerous than before.

3. Tortured Souls - another example of a unit that was boosted to a bigger version, this time from a regiment to horde. That makes them a truly hard hitting unit with 18 attacks and CS2 and more durable with nerve -/18.

4. The Well of Souls - that is a very interesting addition too. The most expensive in the army. But with some unique ability to "heal" friendly units. Lifeleech (5) allows for proper damage point nullification. Def 5 and nerve -/20 makes it very resilient but depending how it would take the damage points from other units it may cause some problems too. It flies and has 10 attacks so it can be very good asset in close combat. It also inspires nearby troops which is great.

In comparison to the previous army it has 11 elements instead of 13 but looks more solid so to speak.

Outcasts - Army List

10 Stormwind, Regiment, Potion of the Caterpillar (Pathfinder) - 235
- 5 Silverbreeze, Troop - 145
- 5 Silverbreeze, Troop - 145
- Drakon Rider Lord, Hero, Large Cavalry, Blade of the Beast Slayer - 180

3 Drakon Riders, Regiment - 175
- 5 Stormwind, Troops - 140
- Bolt Thrower, War Machine - 90

20 Palace Guard, Regiment - 150
- 10 Archers - 115
- Bolt Thrower, War Machine - 90

20 Spearelves, Regiment - 140
- Elven Mage, Inspiring Talisman, Bane Chant - 110

20 Spearelves, Regiment - 140
- Battle Standard Bearer, Hero - 50

Prince, Hero, Mounted, Quicksilver Rapier, Pussy Cat - 95

First of all I have just realized my army is illegal :( I could not include the Prince in this configuration. I am terribly sorry for this mistake. Which is also a pity as it is a major change to my army where I thought I could trade off one unit of archers for additional hero with anti-hero equipment.

Terrain

Image
Terrain

Hills - Height 2

Buildings - Height 3

Forests - Height 4

Deployment

Image
Deployment Order

Deployment Order:

1. Bolt Thrower (BT1) - Gargoyles
2. Bolt Thrower (BT2) - Succubi (S1)
3. Silver Breeze (SB1) - Succubi (S2)
4. Silver Breeze (SB2) - Temptress
5. Spearelves (S1) - Flamebearers (F1)
6. Spearelves (S2) - Flamebearers (F2)
7. Archers - Efreet
8. Palace Guard - Abyssal Horde (AB1 - Pathfinder)
9. Mage - Abyssal Horde (AB2 - +1 Speed)
10. Storm Wind (SW2) - Well of Souls
11. Prince - Tortured Souls
12. Rest of the Army


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Final Deployment - Scenario: Dominate!

We played Dominate! scenario. It means that we would need to calculate the combined value of all units 12" from the center at the end of the game. That is that red circle on the diagram above. Whoever has 200VP or more wins.

I must say it sounded very intriguing. It does not matter how much you kill (not directly at least) but how much can you keep alive and in the right spot at the end of the game.

My first thought was that in this scenario it may be better to have the last turn. In addition, I thought I would deploy my shooters further and let the enemy come forward.

I chose South (I won the roll off to chose sides) because large hill looked like it is a better choice for shooters to overview the middle of the battle field.

I didn't want to go for war of attrition in the middle of the battle field because I think Forces of Abyss are better at it with Well of Souls and Tortured Souls being able to hold the line very well and Succubi regiments being a dangerous opponent even to heavy cavalry with so many attacks.

Because of that I decided I will use my shooting to get rid of some Succubi first (or at least thin them down for some fast troops to finish the job) and still try to move on the flanks to counter enemy units there.

The dilemma I had was which flank to choose. I could reinforce left flank and try to get to the Flamebearers anyway, despite the presence of Tortured Souls. Or choose right flank and try to offer some exchange of troops and clear out enemy heavy cavalry. I chose the latter because I thought it is more important to at least neutralize the horsemen so that they don't move into the zone while if I could keep my heavy hitters alive I could still have last turn to get there.

I won the roll off but I gave the first turn to EB as planed.

Forces of Abyss - Turn 1

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Forward!

Forces of Abyss move forward towards the Elven battle line. The units in the center advanced at a double to take hold of the center of the battle field as soon as possible. The cavalry on the flank moved more cautiously due to the presence of Elven knights opposing them. At this stage no units were in range for shooting attacks.

Outcasts - Turn 1

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Elves pull back a little

Elves pull back to avoid long charges of Abyssal fliers and start shooting at advancing enemy. All effort was focused on Succubi that despite their protective aura took considerable damage. (Edit: They took 9 points of damage, sorry for a mistake in a diagram.)

Forces of Abyss - Turn 2

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Forces of Abyss slow down their advance

Seeing that the Elves pulled back, Forces of Abyss moved cautiously. One cannot trust an elf, if he is retreating it is definitely a trap. The units in the center formed double line to be ready to absorb charges and counter. Tortured Souls secured one flank while the cavalry used the cover of the forest well to watch the other.

Outcasts - Turn 2

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Elves attack!

Elves decided to attack in an attempt to seize the initiative and to overwhelm the center using the fact that there was a breach in enemy formation. Drakon Riders smashed Flamebearers to pieces while Prince distracted another unit that might seek the opportunity to punish flying cavalry.

Stormwind squadron attacked damaged Succubi but this time Elven knights didn't manage to break the enemy and now were in big trouble themselves. The army shooters focused their fire on the second Succubi regiment but also failed to rout the enemy and these two, very bloodied units, would enact vengeance for sure.

Fast cavalry and Drakon Lord moved through the gap in the enemy formation but while avoiding the attention of the Wall of Souls, Elven Lord ignored much more dangerous threat in the form of enemy cavalry. This recklessness would cost him dearly.

Finally, Spearelves attacked Gargoyles, routed them and prepared to take the charge of the enemy.

Forces of Abyss - Turn 3

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Powerful counter attack!

Forces of Abyss attacked in a well coordinated manner against multiple enemy units at the same time. Succubi gave no chance to now exposed Elven Knights and routed them easily. Powerful flank attack of the cavalry took care of a vain and arrogant Elven Lord. Nearby Drakes were attacked by the Efreet and fireballs wavered Elven fliers. Even Flamebearers scared Elven Princeling!

Last but not least , Well of Souls and second cavalry regiment attacked isolated Spearelves who could not hold against such a powerful attack.

Outcasts - Turn 3

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Counter on the right flank failed!

Elven army was in a very bad position now. What was supposed to be a sweeping attack through the gap in enemy lines ended in disaster. But they still had the option to attack. In the center, BSB kept distracting Flamebearers while the shooters took aim. One regiment of Succubi was finally routed but the second one only wavered despite being almost totally spent.

Finally, Palace Guard and Stormwind Regiment attacked enemy cavalry but failed to rout them and were now in a very bad position to receive enemy counter attack.

Forces of Abyss - Turn 4

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Another heavy counter-punch!

Forces of Abyss didn't let the Elves seize the initiative. Tortured Souls finally were in a position to attack Elven rear and Spearelves stood no chance against such enemy.

Efreet, this time with the help of Temptress and her magic, once again tried to get rid of the Drakon Riders but failed and this time they didn't waver either.

But the flank belonged to Forces of Abyss. Palace Guard stood no chance against another flank attack. Well of Souls had an opportunity for flank attack against Stormwind cavalry too and charged in with Abyssal Horsemen. Fighting in the woods was tough but they still managed to rout Elven cavalry despite inspiring presence of the nearby Mage.

(Edit: Well of Souls took away two wounds from the Horsemen that were subsequently "healed" by Lifeleach.)

Situation was looking grim for the Elves but they refused to give up. They remembered the famous arena warrior, Sylvus Sly Stallionus, who said "It ain't over til it's over" and kept on fighting!

Outcasts - Turn 4

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The power of Elven shooting!

Elves had few resources left but they used whatever they had to full potential. Brave BSB was battling whole regiment of Flamebearers all by himself, buing time for his companions.

The shooters finally finished Succubi and tried to harm enemy cavalry. One of the units was just scratched but the reinforced arrows of fast cavalry were enough to rout the other, already damaged unit.

Drakon Riders attacked exposed Efreet but could not rout the enemy and failed to overrun to help BSB in his heroic fight.

Forces of Abyss - Turn 5

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Exchange of blows continues!

(Edit: In this round a silly situation occurred. In a previous turn I moved my units believing that AH2 regiment faces the forest. As strange it looked I didn't ask my opponent about it. In his turn it happened that AH2 was actually facing the different direction and it looked like some kind of UB bug didn't show the situation the same way for both of us. As I moved my units with wrong assumption, EB offered that he will charge just fast cavalry instead of making more dangerous moves with this particular unit.

Thank a lot, Eastern Barbarian!
)

Forces of Abyss continued their rampage. Heavy cavalry punished nearby fast horse of the Elves for their arrogant attack. Tortured Souls continued destruction of the Elven shooters, now joined by the Well of Souls.

Temptress attacked Drakon Riders but could not land a single blow. Flamebears, however, managed to waver annoying Elven BSB.

Outcasts - Turn 5

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Fast cavalry for the win!

It was a desperate fight for the Elves now. But they did what they could! First, fast cavalry, once again supported by the mage, shot at the enemy horsemen. Surprisingly, these few arrows were enough to discourage daemonic riders from continuing the fight! (Edit: Lucky double 6's for the nerve roll here.)

Drakon Riders attacked exposed Flamebearers and routed them too. But the Prince could not get rid of the Efreet despite inflicting significant damage. (Edit: This time I rolled double 1's :))

Forces of Abyss - Turn 6

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Tortured Souls secure the objective!

Few remaining elements of the Abyssal army started converging towards the center of the battlefield. First, Efreet took her vengeance by attacking the Prince. He got wounded only once but was routed anyway!

But the most important attack was delivered by Tortured Souls. They first dispatched Elven BSB as if he was not there and then continued towards Drakon Riders and routed them too! (Edit: That was amazing! I moved back the Drakons after defeating the Flamebearers but rolled only 1 inch to do so. It was enough to avoid Tortured Souls in direct attack. When they charged BSB it was clear they needed a 6 for overrun to hit Drakon Riders and continue the melee. And EB got it! )

Outcasts - Turn 6

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Last effort

Elves had no tools to shift Tortured Souls so they tried to get rid of the enemy leaders. Bolt Thrower shot at Efreet, wounded it and ... it didn't rout! (Edit: You know what happened? I rolled double 1's again :D)

Fast cavalry inflicted only single wound on Temptress and she didn't care. With that last shot it was clear that Forces of Abyss controlled the objective and Elves had to withdraw defeated.

Summary

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Turn-byt-turn summary animation


After-battle thoughts


First of all I would like to congratulate Eastern Barbarian for a well deserved victory and successful rematch. He played very well and while he didn't avoid some mistakes he didn't give up and fought his way back to the victory. Well done!

Second, my sincere apologies for playing with illegal list. I think karma punished me already with some of the dice rolls but I would feel even more embarrassed if I actually won. I really don't know how did I miss that. :(

Before I go to the discussion on what I learned from this game and what did I observer during it as well as during the preparation of the battle report, I would like to say a few things about the way EB played.

I think he did great this time.In our previous two games he was clearly not sure sometimes what units can do but this game he had them nicely grouped and supporting each other. Succubi formed the front line and while they took the beating they kept going, counter charged when possible and simply took a lot of arrows that would have been directed at other units.

Flamebearers formed rear guard nicely and while they had no chance to shoot they successfully discouraged my drakons from attempt to start the game on the left flank. Tortured Souls nicely covered the flank and flew towards the back yard to kill my shooters and then come back to win the battle for the Forces of Abyss.

The second group of cavalry also cooperated nicely, destroying my most dangerous units there.

I know he got a lot of great advice from more experienced players from Mantic Forum so I would like to thank them for their help. You can see he learns fast and he is a good student!

His main mistake was leaving the exposed flank of Flamebearers but this time it was more difficult to spot so I don't blame him for not seeing that. It was a dangerous situation but his Succubi held long enough to avoid the collapse of the center too early. I also think he could have moved Efreet from the sight of Drakons and Well of Souls could start in between the units of cavalry as sometimes it was a bit too far away to inspire.

Other than that he played a very solid game, secured the center early and didn't let me to throw him away from there.

I made tons of mistakes though and I really can't forgive myself that stupid move with the Drakon Lord in particular. He would have been so important later in the game especially.

I am not happy with the deployment. I need to work better on it but I think I didn't leave enough on the left flank to counter Tortured Souls and didn't position units well to intercept the enemy on the right.

When I finally decided to attack through the forest it was already very risky. I had to rout the enemy cavalry to reform and present front to the second cavalry regiment and Well of Souls. I was concerned with the safety of the Mage at the same time and when I moved him behind the forest I could not cast spells. That was a mistake, I should have cast Bane Chant on Stormwind to inflict maximum damage. I can't remember the result of the rolls but I believe I scored quite a lot 2's for damage.

If I succeeded I had a chance to prevail or at least tie the enemy on that flank and allow me to stay in the fight. After that loss I was really in a desperate position and I got lucky with the shooting.

But I made yet another mistake, that is not moving BSB away from Flamebaerers as despite the fact that he wavered I could still move him. That would create a gap between Drakons and him larger than 6" and would have saved them.

EB had 790 points left while I had only 255 that counted for the scenario purpose so he was winning by 535 points. It was a long shot but with Drakons alive I had a chance to save a draw if I got Efreet and Temptress.

I guess the conclusion is that I was simply outplayed regardless and I need to find the better overall plan and avoid mistakes like the one with the Drakon Lord.

It was my first full game with the scenario though and I would like to share some observations about it too. I really like the fact that you have to count your own points in the certain area instead of how much did you kill. In our game we killed a lot of each other but it was all aimed at units that were either in the middle or attempted to get there.

Deployment and the decision to start or go second in particular were affected by the scenario objectives. But look how EB slowed down his units despite the fact that going forward full speed would have allowed him to get into range of shooting next turn and threaten my own lines with Succubi. He also ignored last Bolt Thrower, that was still dangerous because it paid off more to get very expensive Well of Souls into 12" range from the center.

I think from now on we simply will keep playing scenarios as they definitely add great variety to the game. We never doubted it but I believe we are now better prepared to do it.

Thanks for reading and I hope you enjoyed it!

Cheers!

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High Elves MSU - Observations

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:55 pm 
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Thanks for the report as per usual sir. Well done to EB.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:58 am 
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Hi Jimmy,

Thanks a lot, my friend! Good to know that somebody still reads the reports despite Ulthuan being fully beneath the waves :)

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:36 pm 
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Hello!

Encouraged by his most recent victory, my regular opponent - Eastern Barbarian - decided he is going to bring his Forces of Abyss army once again. It is 1:1 between us at the moment so I am sure he wanted to prove it was not a coincidence he won. While I was happy to get a chance for a revenge! He used exactly the same army as last time while I had to correct the mistake I unknowingly overlooked.

Forces of Abyss - Army List

20 Succubi, Regiment, Mace of Crushing - 195
- 10 Gargoyles, Troop - 80
- Abyssal Temptress, Hero, Bane Chant, Wind Blast - 135

20 Succubi, Regiment - 190
- The Well of Souls - 275

20 Flamebearers, Regiment - 140

20 Flamebearers, Regiment - 140
- Efreet, Hero, Inspiring Talisman - 155

10 Abyssal Horsemen, Regiment, Potion of the Caterpillar (Pathfinder) - 235

10 Abyssal Horsemen, Regiment, Brew of Haste (+1 Speed) - 230

6 Tortured Souls, Horde, Blade of Slashing - 225

Outcasts - Army List

10 Stormwind, Regiment, Potion of the Caterpillar (Pathfinder) - 235
- 5 Silverbreeze, Troop - 145
- 5 Silverbreeze, Troop - 145
- Drakon Rider Lord, Hero, Large Cavalry - 160

3 Drakon Riders, Regiment, Dwarven Ale - 185
- 5 Stormwind, Troops - 140
- Bolt Thrower, War Machine - 90

20 Palace Guard, Regiment - 150
- 10 Archers - 115
- 10 Palace Guard, Troop - 105
- Bolt Thrower, War Machine - 90

20 Spearelves, Regiment - 140
- Elven Mage, Inspiring Talisman, Bane Chant - 110

20 Spearelves, Regiment - 140
- Battle Standard Bearer, Hero - 50

EB's army was the same as before so I am not going to go through his units like I do usually as I don't have anything new to add. I am learning how to deal with his army in different settings while he decided to play with it a few times before he decides if he needs any changes or not.

From my point of view as his opponent I think it is already a good army, he just needs practice. Of course small tweaks here and there are always to be considered but I find it more of a personal taste rather than "must-have" solutions.

I replaced one unit of Archers with Palace Guard troop. I did it because I don't want my opponents to feel I have shooty army (I think they still think so!) and had an excuse to add the models I like too. With extra points I got Dwarven Ale for Drakons as I was really annoyed how many times they wavered when I needed them to move!

Terrain

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Terrain

This time I tried to find a map where variety of terrain is represented, in particular I hoped the inclusion of obstacles will spice up our game.

We also rolled for a scenario and when we got Kill! in the first roll we decided to re-roll that and got Loot for the second time. Here is the map with Loot counters placed:

Image
Loot counters added.

I won the roll off and placed my Loot counter on the left. Then EB positioned his on the right. Unfortunately, we haven't discussed it after the game so I am not sure why he chose this spot.

It was quite tricky to make a decision about Loot counter placement because we didn't give much thought to it yet. I wonder if there are any particular strategies people use when doing so. I was wondering for example if they give up one, overload their units to secure the other and try to get just enough advantage to fight for the third one.

I positioned mine closer to the center so that more units would be able to grab it or put up a fight to not let to take it by the enemy.

Deployment

Image
Deployment order

Deployment Order:

1. Gargoyles - Storm Wind (SW1)
2. Succubi (S1) - Silver Breeze (SB1)
3. Temptress - Storm Wind (SW2)
4. Succubi (S2) - Silver Breeze (SB2)
5. Flamebearers (F1) - Bolt Thrower (BT1)
6. Flamebearers (F2) - Bolt Thrower (BT2)
7. Efreet - Archers
8. Tortured Souls - Drakon Riders
9. Abyssal Horsemen (AB1) - BSB
10. Abyssal Horsemen (AB2) - Palace Guard (PG1)
11. Well of Souls - Rest of the Army

I decided I would like to either grab the Loot counters early or be in a position to immediately attack if the enemy did so. That is why I started with the cavalry in the center, Drakons nearby and fast units on the edge of the deployment so that they could move as fast and far as possible.

However, EB had a very solid battle line in the center and I noticed that even if I moved my heavy cavalry far to cover fast cavalry to allow them to pick the Loot I would not be able to delay the enemy for long. Simply because I would have been charged by the entire army.

I had to adapt during the deployment then. I continued with the formation I decided in the first place but I thought that I would continue with the plan only on the right, where there was some cover from the building.

In the center and on the left I thought I would move a bit but use long charge range to trouble EB with possible charges and hopefully outflank him in the process to either win or contest the other two counters.

I won the roll off and took the first turn.

Outcasts - Turn 1

Image
Elves grab the Loot on the right.

Elves moved forward but didn't let the greed to overcome them as it was often evidenced by Dwarven downfalls. Only on the East they used the cover of the building to secure the objective and recover precious item.

Other than that they used their infamous shooting to inflict some damage to the enemy but usually cowardly Gargoyles refused to run away!

Forces of Abyss

Image
Abyssals charged early!

Gargoyles, empowered by the fact they survived started regenerating damage on the fly and attacked the most powerful Elven unit. The Knights were a bit surprised but the enemy is the enemy and they kept tight defensive formation.

On the East, Tortured Souls hunted Elven fast cavalry but surprisingly they survived the charge (although wavered).

In the meantime the rest of the army advanced steadily and Well of Souls healed nearby Horsemen.

Outcasts - Turn 2

Image
Elves counter and win the East!

Elves spotted the opportunity on the flank where the enemy overextended itself and was not supported. The infantry turned towards the center to cover the maneuver. Wavered fast cavalry pulled back and made room for the attackers. Drakon Lord, Drakes and Palace Guard hit as one and gave no chance to their foe.

In the meantime, Storm Wind troop charged against enemy cavalry to stop their advance while their companions from the bigger regiment regrouped. Fast cavalry covered them too and shot at pesky Gargoyles that this time flew away never to return.

Forces of Abyss - Turn 2

Image
Attack through the center.

Abyssal Horsemen and Well of Souls attacked brave but reckless Knights who paid ultimate price for their folly. The Well not only healed the Horsemen again but also used the Elven souls to repair itself.

The second unit of cavalry didn't take the bait and didn't attack Elven infantry as it would have exposed their flank to a swift and deadly charge.

On the other hand, Succubii stormed through the center and anihilated lightly armored fast cavalry. Left unit used a bit of momentum to avoid Tallspears regiment that was readying for flank attack. The right unit just reformed.

On the Western flank, Flamebearers and Efreet finally obtained their target and focused their fire on poor Tallspears. But in unusual show of bravery they refused to rout despite suffering horrendous casualties.

Outcasts - Turn 3

Image
Things escalated quickly.

The Elves had to hit fast and hard now. On the West, Tallspears charged Flamebearers in a kind of suicidal attack as they wanted to take some enemy with them.

In the center, Storm Wind got unexpected support from the Archers and together they managed to rout Succubi regiment. Drakon Lord and Drakon Riders all hit the flank of the second Succubi regiment but this time Forces of Abyss prevailed.

That created a very tense situation as despite the effort of the infantry that was tying up enemy cavalry, dangerous Well of Souls was free to pick up its targets. Elves had nothing else to do but brace for impact now.

Forces of Abyss - Turn 3

Image
Counter Charge!

It was now or never for the Forces of Abyss. First, Efreet finished off annoying Tallspears and that allowed Flamebearers to shoot at Storm Wind cavalry. The damage was not big though.

Succubi counter charged Elven lord and did a very significant damage (with the assist of Bane Chant) but he miraculously survived! Well of Souls didn't manage to destroy Drakon Riders either but they were wavered (for now).

Cavalry charged one infantry regiment each and Palace Guard was routed immediately while Tallspears survived the attack.

That was not exactly what Forces of Abyss wanted to achieve. Elves were hit hard but not hard enough to stop their next all out attack.

Outcasts - Turn 4

Image
Killing Blow!

Both armies were bleeding heavily and it was definitely a crucial moment of the battle. Elves were determined to tip the scales into their favor once and for all.

Drakon Riders gulped awful in taste and quite smelly elixir but it did what it was advertised it supposed to do. Wavering warriors found that one more surge of strength and shrugged off the exhaustion of the battle and attacked Flamebearers. They didn't expect that attack at all and were quickly destroyed.

Bolt thrower crew spotted Efreet wondering alone and with lucky shot they got it Wavered that was very important for the victorious Drakon Riders nearby.

Drakon Lord and Archers (again!) finished off Succubi regiment while Storm Wind used the opportunity and attacked isolated Well of Souls and destroyed it completely.

Finally, infantry repeated the attack at the enemy cavalry and Palace Guard managed to rout their adversaries.

With such a powerful attack Forces of Abyss were reduced to a single regiment and were left with no hope to prevail, let alone to capture any precious items.

Image
Final positions

Summary

Image
Turn-by-turn animation summary

After-battle thoughts

Oh boy, that was pretty brutal outcome and I honestly didn't expect that the game would have such violent and abrupt ending.

It seems we both were kind of cautions and didn't want to pick up the loot until the item was properly surrounded. I had to sacrifice some of my infantry to keep EB's cavalry from joining the fight and I think that was crucial to what happened.

But let's start from the beginning. I am still not sure how Loot markers should be placed and how to deploy to use the scenario rules to the best advantage. I can see how hordes can be useful here as you can march a unit like that to the marker and simply take it and then get the charges in.

Neither of our army had such unit and neither had anything that could comfortably grab the Loot and survive the immediate charge. I think that is why we were both kind of shy.

I think I got some advantage when EB decided to commit his Tortured Souls and I expected to lose fast cavalry. I had enough units there to counter though and I think this attack helped me. It allowed me to clear the flank and redirect the units towards the center.

In the meantime I used my Storm Wind troop and infantry to block the Horsemen. Their speed and powerful attack on a charge could break my formation easily so I had to delay them. What is more, they could cover the infantry from my units and help it to grab the Loot.

I admit I also had some luck that had a significant impact. It started with Tallspears that despite getting 9 points of damage didn't care and not only kept Flamebearers occupied but also took one of the regiments with them.

Then Succubi could not get my Lord and Well of Souls didn't rout Drake Riders. If the dice were just average I would have lost Tallspears and both flying units in one go and that would have created a very tough situation for me in the center.

It really was hanging on the very fine line of balance for me. If that happened I would have had only surrounded unit of Spears fighting cavalry and my own heavy horse to attack. I think in this situation the result would not have been decided until the very last moment. I had some heavy hitters left and my shooting was still powerful but the combination of surviving fliers and exposed flanks of units that otherwise would have reformed, was what resulted in such a dramatic end.

I wanted to emphasize that because it may look as an easy win for me but I really think the outcome might have been much different. That simply shows I need to come up with a better plan next time as I know EB is already plotting how to get even! :)

Thanks for reading!

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High Elves MSU - Observations

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:39 pm 
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Hi Swordmaster!

Thanks for that report. Though I know very little about KoW (mainly the principles you explained) and it makes it hard to predict the outcome of the game (I have no idea about the result of straight unit match ups...), it's still nice and entertaining to read.
How do you feel about the general maneuvering that is possible in the game? The impression I get is that it looks much more like two battle lines clashing, with less flanking and sneaking past the enemy - thinking about the army-wide scale here, not units flanking an enemy for a fight.

Cheers,
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:26 pm 
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Hi Iluvatar!

Thanks a lot for your comments! These days I am happy when I see people reading the reports, any comment is like a Christmas gift with the bonus of being even less expected!

I am very happy to elaborate on any subject you want. The rules are not long to read but I know it may also be quicker and easier for somebody who has already played the game to explain them too. I try to keep the reports as a story so it is ok to read it without knowing the rules but of course, the more you do the better is understanding of the situation and what can do what.

It is very funny because when I first started observing KoW games they also looked to me as very static and had the same question to Gatti as he have had some games under his belt already (and won a tournament too!). Now I understand what he tried to explain much better.

Let me start with the fact that in KoW armies will always have around 10 or more elements for 2000 point game so they will always cover a substantial amount of terrain. Unless you form two lines but that is not yet common and not all armies do it. Because of that it will be harder to have room to sneak in or through.

Second important thing is that visually it may look like not much happens for some time because the units don't shrink in size. You have these abstract damage counters you tend to ignore but then, suddenly, entire units just disappear. It can lead to the impression things are static but also to some kind of feeling it is "unrealistic". I came to terms with it by forgetting about Warhammer habits and treating these things as part of the game. And that it is a game, not a battle field simulation. :)

The movement itself is more tricky. On one hand you have the ways to move in a very dynamic way. You go through your own units, you have these free reforms after routing the enemy etc. At the same time the are some significant constraints where you can't pivot when you move at a double etc. That leads to the situation where again, you have to change your perception and how elements move. Some of them are extremely mobile (individuals, fliers) but nevertheless I found out you need to have clear plan where they are going to be deployed and where they need to go to use the movement phase to the fullest.

In KoW getting a flank or even rear charge is a very huge benefit. That is why people are trying their best to avoid that and that may also lead to the impression where the two battle lines either are shy to commit or clash headlong. However, unlike in the smaller games I have observed before, it does not have to be about two hordes smashing against each other and simply waiting who breaks first. It is more as if you wanted to tie some enemies in combat so that extra element can have enough time to go to the position for flank/rear attack.

I think one of the best examples that KoW is not as static is the last game. In Warhammer I often had a situation where particular unit saw one combat in 6 turns. On rare occasion two. They either spent too long getting in position, got reduced in size so they didn't offer enough punch anymore or even died in the meantime.

Here, in 4 turns many units saw 2-3 melees and it was because they operated together and that I did get these flank charges. Obviously flying Drakons had it easier due to flying over the heads of friends and foes alike. But even troops of Palace Guard did great because I had them where I needed them. They fought 2 powerful units of the enemy and in turn 4 were still ready to attack again.

What I also observed in the meantime and that I think can contribute to the impression that game looks static is that you simply have to create breaches in enemy lines. And once you commit it is hard to move away if the enemy is not destroyed. So in order to succeed you have to be ready to go for exchanges. Because the trade off in material will buy you time or space or both. It is your job to trade what you want and get better deal from it.

If you look at it from this perspective, you will see it is much more maneuverable than it seems. Also, because it is not maneuverable in the linear way (i.e. how far I can go with one unit in a straight line or in a certain direction with a few wheels in the meantime r even moving at a double with free reform, WE style) but in an area it can move into (i.e. pivot and move creates a certain area the unit can cover and sometimes attack).

I hope that makes some sense, please, let me know! :)

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:27 pm 
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It was great to see EB back to have another game.

Were you expecting EB to charge so early with the Gargoyles and bring the fight to you or do you think perhaps it was more of a fight/flight reaction on his behalf wanting the unit to do something before its demise?

Despite the outcome the game was very well played by both parties, I hope EB keeps his motivation up and comes back for another crack?

Thanks for the report.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:50 pm 
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Hi Jimmy,

Thanks for the comment!

I didn't expect that EB is going to charge with Gargoyles but it was something I should have taken into account. It is true that one of the reasons might have been to use them before they die. However, they have Regeneration special rule that would allow them to hide and keep healing, so it was not just a suicidal charge.

In fact, it was a very good use that forced me to withdraw with my heavy cavalry anyway. First of all there is no harm in doing a few points of damage. I would need to use Heal to recover that instead of casting Bane Chant and it is not even guarantee I would manage to do that.

Second, it is the best way to actually block the enemy. With normal move you often have to pivot that not always guarantees that the enemy has no room for maneuver. With the charge, you are directly in front of him, so there is no way he can avoid your regiment and charge something else, unless he is flying.

Third, which is also very important here, is that you can disorder the enemy. In the case of my heavy cavalry it means that they lose their Thunderous Charge for one turn. Even against lightly armored gargoyles it means I would do damage on 3+ instead of 2+. And it is even more crucial against better armored enemies.

Last but not least there is always a chance for lucky double 6's for nerve test :)

That is quite interesting mechanics in my opinion, so different to what we had in Warhammer for sure, where it was better to park a unit in front of the enemy without charging it at all.

And no worries, EB will be back for sure. The main problem is that he plays around 10 different systems and in some with a few armies so I guess he spreads his attention a lot :D

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