MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - 10.09

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Swordmaster of Hoeth
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MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - 10.09

#1 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Greetings!

I have a great pleasure to play against Marchosias of Druchii.net fame and his Dark Elves (Marchosias also started a blog together with Rowena about alternative models for WHFB here: Armies of Unsupported Age).

Prologue

Bob the Battle Standard Bearer was taking another report from one of the Reavers who had just returned from another patrol. They were standing in front of a small command tent.

"I tell you they saw us, they want us to see them and they led us closer to their camp so we could inspect their camp", said the scout not even trying masking his surprise. "They look like Druchii but at the same time they don't. It is really strange because you could feel the same wild and savage aura our Asrai cousins have around them". He added.

"Why did they let you leave then? That's not like Druchii at all." asked Bob trying to understand the situation.

"They wanted us to deliver the message of course. Not quite sure what it was though. Their Sorceress, however, waved to us and showed us some kind of a book, with a huge letter "H" engraved on the cover. If I didn't see that myself I would not have believed that at all!" the Reaver was not sure if he should be more amused or worried.

Then Larry stormed out form the tent with a parchment that showed a picture of some ancient tome and grabbed the army of the scout.

"Was it that book?!" he almost shouted and looked intensely at the warrior face "Was it?!?"

"Yes, looks similar but ..." the scout had not time to finish as Larry was already moving away and shouting orders. Outcasts were marching to meet their new foe at once!




The Game

We planned that game little bit earlier but with 9th Age around and sneak peaks coming every day we also decided to try out Alpha version of the rules plus whatever was added in the sneak peaks on their website. Marchosias initially planned to bring his Peg riders but after reading the rules he decided to come up with something different.

Lost Colony - Army List

Supreme sorceress, level 4, Manticore (iron hard skin), Dispel scroll, Healing potion - 445 - Lore of Beast
Death hag BSB, cauldron, Ogre blade - 340

5 Dark riders, shields, crossbows, musician, standard - 120
5 Dark riders, shields, crossbows, musician, standard - 120
10 Witch elves, FCG, Banner of Eternal Flame - 150
20 Dreadspears, FCG - 210

5 shades, Additional Hand Weapon - 90
5 shades, Additional Hand Weapon - 90
5 shades, Additional Hand Weapon - 90
10 Executioners, musician - 130
10 Executioners, musician - 130

Bolt thrower - 80
Bolt thrower - 80
Bolt thrower - 80
Bolt thrower - 80
5 Warlocks - 165

One of the main things 9th Age has already addressed (via sneak peaks) is the issue of ridden monsters such as Manticores and Griffons. They are now still large monsters but of a smaller kind. That means that they combine the profile, i.e. you use monster's number of wounds and toughness and the better save the model has. So, Supreme Sorceress has now 4 wounds at T5 and 4+ save due to scaly skin! With healing potion that under 9th Age rules recovers 2 wounds, it is a nice combination that allows the player to use such model without fear of losing the fragile but expensive model too quickly. It can also fight better too, the spells affect whole model etc.

Beast magic is also re-worked and I was very curious about it. The new attribute looks very intriguing and I can tell you already it was used to good effect.

The same situation is with characters riding chariots so Hag BSB became a very tough nut to crack with her T6 and 5W. I will discuss the Griffon and its equipment later but I also changed equipment for the BSB to try something new.

Another big change is about Warlocks (when DE army is considered). They are more expensive, no longer can save against miscasts and are fast troops meaning they don't have vanguard anymore. They still can move fast and are very maneuverable but their abilities from 8th edition are limited. For me, personally, they are a priority to deal with because they are very good at supporting Supreme Sorceress both in terms of additional channeling but also because their two spells are very dangerous.

Dark Elf army I was about to face had a very strong shooting. What is more, with long range Bolt Throwers, Shades that can get into good position and fast Dark Riders, I would be in a difficult situation where enemy shooters are constantly dangerous but not easy to get rid of.

With such choice of shooting regiments the rest of the army could also be more aggressive in its approach and 4 infantry units could all do proper damage against any element I had in my force. They could also maneuver well because the shooters would, in general, be able to pick targets either by moving to the position or thanks to long range.

In general, I faced an army that is as good at maneuvering as mine, has a very good shooting, good combat units and advantage in magic too (by that I mean more levels and 2 sources of spells).

I decided to take the usual army of mine with a single change:

Outcasts - Army List

Larry the Loremaster, Earthing Rod, Armor of Fortune, Obsidian Amulet - 320
Bob the Battle Standard Bearer, Griffon (Swiftsense), Dragon Armor, Lance, Shield, Trickster's Helm – 333

15 Sea Guard, Full Command - 210
15 Archers, Full Command - 180
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Musician, Bows, Spears - 105
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Musician, Bows, Spears – 105

5 Dragon Princes, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame - 175
5 Dragon Princes, Musician - 155
10 Swordmasters, Bladelord, Musician - 150
10 Swordmasters, Bladelord, Musician - 150
10 Lions, Banner, Musician – 145

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower - 80
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower - 80
Great Eagle - 50
Great Eagle - 50
8 Sisters – 112

Army Total: 2400

I chose different equipment for my BSB. I chose it when I thought I cannot really use armor for my griffon rider but apparently, griffon works like eagle in terms of being a mount. That could be still handy if I chose previous equipment, i.e. Charmed Shield and 4++ ward. The difference is, that griffon (or similar) does not improve armor save as eagle does. So I could either stay with 4+/4++ save or try something new.

For the game against DE I decided it might be a good idea to try Trickster Helm. It would improve normal save to 3+ but give me only 6++ due to dragon armor. However, with T5 suddenly re-rolls to wound looked very attractive. So I decided to try it out.

The games against DE are always bloody. I had to accept that there will be casualties so I needed to make sure I can bleed the enemy too. I wanted to use my own shooting and magic missiles to attack Shades and Dark Riders, provided I had that opportunity. At the same time I knew I need to advance and use terrain to get into favorable combats. I think I had a slight advantage in close combat but it also depended which unit I could send against each. The challenge lied in the fact that every single unit on the battle field had a good counter. For example, Witch Elves are vulnerable to fire and Dragon Princes are the best unit to send against them. But as soon as I lead the cavalry towards Witch Elves the enemy shooters would aim at small heavy cavalry and would delete them before I had a chance to attack. Swordmasters should prevail against Executioners but would be at a disadvantage if Dreadspears blocked their way and so on.

Terrain

Image

For the terrain Marchosias rolled ETC map (I think it was number 1 from this year) but we used 9th Age rules for terrain and Line of Sight. Basically, Hills and Impassable Terrain (the Rocks) block Line of Sight, Wall provides hard cover, while water and forest force dangerous tests for cavalry.

Deployment

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Deployment Order, Scouts, Vanguard

Deployment Order:

1. Dark Riders (DR1) - Ellyrian Reavers (ER1)
2. Dark Riders (DR2) - Ellyrian Reavers (ER2)
3. Bolt Throwers - Great Eagle (GE1)
4. Dreadspears - Great Eagle (GE2)
5. Executioners (E1) - Sisters of Avelorn
6. Executioners (E2) - Sea Guard
7. Warlocks - Dragon Princes (DP1)
8. Witch Elves - Dragon Princes (DP2)
9. Characters - Rest of the Army

Scouts:

10. Shades

Vanguards

11. Dark Riders (DR2) - Ellyrian Reavers (ER2)
12. Dark Riders (DR1)

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Final deployment

Marchosias rolled for the spells of his Supreme Sorceress and she got:

Wyssan’s Wildform - casting values 10+/13+; range 12"/24", Augment, Temporary; Target has +1 Strength and +1 Toughness

The Amber Spear - casting values 9+/15+; range 24", Hex, Missile, Damage, Instant; Target suffers 1 strength 6/10 hit with multiple wound (D3/D6), no armour saves allowed. Penetrates ranks like bolt throwers.

The Curse of Anraheir - casting values 10+/13+, range 36"/72", Hex, Temporary, Target has -1 to hit (shooting and close combat), and treat all terrain (including open ground) as dangerous terrain, and fails dangerous terrain tests on 1 and 2.

Transformation of Kadon - casting values 13+/15+, Cater, range 12", Augment, Focused, Temporary, Target get one of following effects (choose onewhen spell is cast):
Aspect of Hydra: +2 Attack and Regeneration
Aspect of Chimera: +3 Strength, 4+ Scaly Skin
Aspect of Manticore: +4 Initiative, Killing Blow
Aspect of Dragon: +3 Weapon Skill, Strength 4, Flaming Breath Weapon

Lore Attribute - Range 18”, Focused, Augment; Temporary, Target has +1 Strength or +1 Attack. (choose which when the the attribute is cast)

As you can see there are some interesting changes to the Lore of Beast. The lore attribute in particular can turn units into killing machines. Imagine Wild form and Lore Attribute augmenting a unit at the same time. Transformation of Kadon is great because now you are getting an aspect instead of trying to get the monster in some tight situation and it can be cast on something else not only the caster her/himself. I think Marchosias had very versatile spells to cast with Sorceress herself and even more so with the aid of Warlocks. Larry was about to face a tough adversary for sure!

I got lucky to win the roll off and got the first turn:

Outcasts - Turn 1

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Outflanking!

Outcasts seized the initiative and started their outflanking maneuver. Sea Guard and Sisters jumped on the hill to start shooting at the enemies but the Shades were well hidden. Only a few of them died and it looked like the bold opening put some of the Elven units in very dangerous spots.

Magic Phase Details:

Winds of Magic: 2,5 --> 8-6 (one channel each)
Miasma at BT2, BS: 1,6 + 2 = 9, no dispel attempt, d3=1 --> -1
2d6 Fireball at BT4: 4,5,6 + 2 = 17, dispel attempt successful on the roll of 2,2,4,6,6
Earthing Blood, Bubble: 1,3,3 + 2 = 11, failed to cast

Lost Colony - Turn 1

Image
Druchii shooting is not yet as efficient as it could be.

Dark Elves advanced too, it seems their savage nature was taking over and they didn't plan to wait for their enemies to come to them. They also had the means to hurt their foes at a distance. Sisters of Avelorn took the brute of the attack but it was not as efficient as it could have been yet.

Magic Phase Details:

Winds of Magic: 1,4 --> 5:4
Amber Spear at DP2: 1,5,6 + 4 = 16, no dispel attempt --> lore attribute: +1A for Executioners --> 1 dead Dragon Prince
Wildform at Shades in the Woods: 1,6 + 4 = 11, dispelled on the roll of 1,4,6,6

Outcasts - Turn 2

Image
Fireworks!

High Elves pushed through the flank harder, now baiting their enemies to charge some of the regiments and to counter in order to get behind their lines. The shooters finished off now exposed Dark Riders and last Shade hiding behind the wall. However, the disaster struck when Larry the Loremaster could not contain the magical feedback and half of his Sea Guard perished in flames.

Magic Phase Details:

Winds of Magic: 6,6 --> 12-7 (one channel for DE)
3d6 Fireball at Sorceress: 2,3,6,6,6 , no dispel attempt --> 3d6 = 10 hits --> 3 wounds, 2 saved

(Edit: In the new rules double 6 or more 6's is called Overwhelming power. It adds to the result rolled d3 + number of power dice used. In this case I would add 6-8 dice but Marchosias didn't attempt to dispel anyway so we didn't check. In addition, there is a new table you roll for to determine the result of the feedback. I got 2,4 = 6 that means that:
Centre the 3" template over the caster. Each model
touched by the template takes a hit with strength
equal to PDU+2 (no armour saves allowed). The
caster may neither use Look out Sir! nor saves of
any kind .
Remove PDU power dice from the power pool


Where PDU = Power Dice Used.

It means that all models under the template got hit with Strength 5 + 2 = 7, the Loremaster got wounded with no ward saves either and I lost 8 Sea Guards. In addition 5 dice were immediately removed from the pool meaning I now had only 2 power dice against 7 for Marchosias. I didn't bother casting more spells this round.
)

Lost Colony - Turn 2

Image
Exploiting the situation

Dark Elves moved forward again and exploited the situation where some of the High Elf regiments were already weakened. The shooters focused on Sisters and Sea Guard and both units were completely destroyed, with lone Loremasters standing on the hill now. Fortunately, Dark Elves had to reload and he had time to run for cover.

On the left flank things didn't go well for the Outcasts either as Shades destroyed Bolt Thrower and nearby Archers panicked and abandoned their positions in the forest. Dark Elves clearly got the upper hand.

Magic Phase Details:

Winds of Magic: 3,3 --> 7:3 (one channel for DE)
Amber Spear at DP1: 2,3,4 + 4 = 13, dispelled on the roll of 2,3,6 + 2 = 13
Wildform at Warlocks: 1,4,5,6 + 4 = 20, no dispel attempt (Edit: With lore attribute they are now S6 T4)

Outcasts - Turn 3

Image
HE keep pressing forward

Despite heavy casualties High Elves kept moving forward and regrouped on the march. With the Archers rallying and other long range shooters gone Outcasts could not do much at the distance. Would they be still able to fight back?

Magic Phase Details:

Winds of Magic: 4,5 --> 9:5 (no channels)
Burning Gaze at Sorceress: 2,3 + 2 = 7 --> no dispel attempt --> d6 = 2 --> 1 wound, no save
2d6 Fireball: 1,3,3 + 2 = 9, failed to cast
Miasma at Dark Riders: 5,6 = 11, dispelled on the roll 4,6,6 + 4 = 20
Earthblood: 2,6 = 8, dispelled on the roll 3,5 + 4 = 12

Lost Colony - Turn 3

Image
Outcasts lose more units, situation looks grim.

Dark Elves didn't take an obvious bait and withdrew. They used their ranged attacks to further thin down High Elves battle line and they were very successful. Regular shooting eliminated Reavers while magic Amber Spear skewered entire Claw of Dragon Princes!
Things started to look even more grim for the Outcasts.

Magic Phase Details:

Winds of Magic: 1,2 --> 4:2 (one channel for DE)
Amber Spear at Dragon Princes: 1,4,5 + 4 = 14, no dispel attempt --> all unit dead (Edit: I had only 2 dice to dispel it and would need double 6's anyway so decided to dispel something else instead. Marchosias proceeded to roll very well for "to wound" while I could not make a single 6+ ward save. Well done! =D> )
Frenzy bound spell from the Cauldron: 2, failed to cast

Outcasts - Turn 4

Image
Counter attack!

It was now or never. Outcasts were wounded badly and they needed a counter attack to keep any hopes for surviving that battle. Bob called for the aid of Dragon Princes and together they charged the Warlocks. Three of them fell but remaining two held their ground nevertheless!

Swordmasters and Eallyrian Reavers all charged in against exposed Executioners who arrogantly held their ground. Only Larry's bodyguards were late to the party. Outcasts hit hard but Reavers had to take the attacks back and none of the valiant fast cavalry survived. But they occupied Executioners long enough so that flanking Swordmasters broke them and overrun into nearby Sorceress!

Archers tried to fend off surrounding Dark Elves and even managed to panic the Shades. However, they still had to face Dreadspears!

Magic Phase Details:

Winds of Magic: 1,6 --> 7-7 (channel for DE)
Iceshard at Executioners (E2): 1,1,2 + 2 = 6, failed to cast

(Edit: After that failed attempt to cast 7+ spell with 3 dice I didn't even bother trying anything else.)

Lost Colony - Turn 4

Image
Is it a killing blow to Outcasts army?

Despite successful charges, Outcasts were not out of the trouble yet. In fact, Dark Elves pushed further and Dreadspears broke the Archers (Edit: I lost just enough models to lose steadfast!). Fortunately, BSB and Dragon princes finished off the Warlocks and had a clear path to charge new targets while Swordmasters left the Manticore barely alive and there was no reinforcements coming. Would they be able to capture the Sorceress and go back to the game?

Magic Phase Details:

Winds of Magic: 4,6 --> 10:6
Transformation of Kadon, Dragon Aspect: 1,2,4,5 + 4 = 16, dispelled with the roll of 1,1,2,2,3,5 + 2 = 16
Wildform on herself: 2,6,6, no dispel attempt --> Overwhelming power result: 4,5 = 9 --> no further effect

Outcasts - Turn 5

Image
Sorceress is captured!

Outcasts tried to press the attack but not all went according to the plan. Dragon Princes attacked exposed bolt thrower but managed to kill only one crew member while the other one refused to flee. Fortunately, nearby Hag directed her cauldron elsewhere as she decided it is beneath her to fight such an insignificant foe.

Elsewhere, White Lions were so eager to catch fleeing Executioners that they didn't hear their general and didn't attack exposed flank of another, still intact unit. Fortunately, Swordmasters managed to kill the Manticore and capture the sorceress! Larry the Loremaster was so happy because of this turn of events that he completely failed to cast spells this turn!

Magic Phase Details:

Winds of Magic: 1,5 --> 7:5 (one channel for HE)
Burning Gaze at Witch Elves: 1,1 + 2 = 4, failed to cast #-o
2d6 Fireball: 2,3,6 = 11, dispelled on a roll of 1,1,5,6 + 4 = 17
Earthblood 1,2 = 3, failed to cast

Lost Colony - Turn 5

Image
White Lions are destroyed!

Witch Elves spotted the Lions and charged in. Warriors of Chrace seeing a bunch of half-naked and crazy women started to retreat but strangely they withdrew in the manner that suggested they actually wanted to be caught!

Dragon Princes finally destroyed first bolt thrower and reformed looking for new targets.

Magic Phase Details:

Winds of Magic: 3,4 --> 7:5 (channel for HE)
Frenzy bound spell at Executioners: 3,4,4,5,6 = 22, dispelled on a roll of 2,4,4,5,6 + 2 = 23

Outcasts - Turn 6

Image
Last attacks by the Outcasts

Dragon Princes, desperate to pay back, charged Dark Riders who fled to the forest and never came through to the other side! (Edit: Two failed DT tests, Ouch! #-o ). Elven Knights expertly changed the direction of the attack and without losing the momentum hit another bolt thrower. What is more, they carried their charge into third war machine!

Bob the Battle Standard Bearer tried to catch Shades and Executioners but both units didn't want to fight against him alone and fled too. Finally, Larry the Loremaster one last time tried to cast some meaningful spells but once again he failed!

Magic Phase Details:

Winds of Magic: 3,6 --> 9:6
Burning Gaze at Shades: 3,3,3 + 2 = 11, no dispel attempt --> d6 = 2, 1 wound
d6 Fireball 1,1 + 2 = 4, failed to cast
Searing Doom at Executioners: 5,5,6 + 2 = 18, no dispel attempt --> d6 = 2, no wounds

(Edit: I was very desperate with the last turn magic phase and didn't plan it well. I will get back to that in my summary.)

Lost Colony - Turn 6

Image
Finale

Two fleeing units rallied and two kept running away. Swordmasters sacrificed themselves to stop the Hag and paid ultimate price for it. Dragon Princes finished off third bolt thrower and were about to catch the last one but the horns sounded the withdrawal.

Both armies were heavily bloodied but none could claim victory this day.

Summary

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Turn-by-turn animation summary

Epilogue

"All this just because of some book, Larry?", Bob was not sure if he was more furious or more disappointed.
"Not "some" book, Bob. It is my signed copy of Book of Hoeth, hand written by Belannaer himself! Not some cheap copies Goblin traders sell everywhere these days", replied Larry.
"They are not even Druchii! They are The Lost Colony, Larry, the people we read about in chronicles and you almost destroyed them!", the veteran didn't want to let the subject go, "You are not one of these hot headed Caledorians who first fight and then ask who did they attack. How did you lose that book and how did she get it in the first place anyway?", Bob continued what was probably the longest speech he has ever had.
"Ah, well, you know ..." Larry looked suspiciously shy "we were in the same group at White Tower when I started my studies. She tricked me, took the book and I have never seen her again."
"Well, at least you will know from now on how to cast spells!" said Bob and left the tent to cool down. Larry looked deeply hurt.


After-battle thoughts

First of all I would like to thank Marchosias for a great game! Even when I was losing units it was a fantastic challenge to claw my way back, Marchosias was a very sporty opponent all the time and we had a great time for sure. To my surprise we lost almost the same number of points! (Marchosias beat me by around 20 points :)) I think it is the new rule of giving half points for fleeing units and big bonus for the Sorceress that helped me to save the game.

I think my first mistake was to push LSG and Sisters forward too early. I didn't have good range yet, many potential targets were not available and others had additional protection. I should have moved SG on the slope only so that I could benefit from cover for the purpose of spells casting.

Another mistake was to position left Bolt thrower too close to the archers and force the panic check. I am still not sure if positioning these two units there was a good idea (or rather why not reinforce them with something) but that would have helped for sure. One more shooting round or freedom of movement would have been great.

I am glad I spotted some opportunities to bring the fight back to the enemy, in particular the one where I got the Executioners and overrun into the Sorceress. That definitely saved me the game. However, I feel I didn't maneuver well with the rest of the army and Lions and Swordmasters with Larry did nothing this time. I should have used them more aggressively or at least support each other.

There were a few other mistakes, like not positioning Swordmasters with the Loremaster well enough to be able to see the flank of Witch Elves. I face 6 poisonous attacks but I think I would be able to inflict enough casualties to overcome that and with some spells I should have been able to get them. Or am I too confident here? :) Of course I didn't create the best opportunity to attack them with Dragon Princes or BSB for that matter, since both have ward save against flaming attacks while witches had the Banner of Eternal Flames.

I wonder how should I use my last chance to get points during the 6th turn and magic phase. I failed to inflict proper damage where I had a chance to destroy 2 units. I hoped I could destroy at least fleeing shades and exacutioners as there were 5 models total there. But with 6 dispel dice Marchosias was in a good position to dispel my attempts. Looking at it I would probably go for 3d6 Burning Gaze, followed by 3d6 Fireball (maybe 2d6 version) and just try that Searing Doom at executioners again. Not perfect but might work better.

But other than that I need a better overall plan as I was losing the game due to my mistakes in the first place.

9th Age Impressions

We still used Alpha version of the rules but with some sneak peaks in play too. I have two points this time I would like to highlight with these new rules:

1. Line of Sight - in our game the rule that defines the size of a model and based on that one can tell what is seen is very good. In particular on UB where you can't judge what is what really. But even in real game I would like that as it simply makes it much easier to play with. You have to get used to it and stop assuming you can see anything but I like it a lot.

2. Ridden Monsters - it was great to see Griffon and Manticore again. I started using Griffon some time ago but I like the new approach. These medium sized monsters will have a role to play I think. They are not particularly tough but still much better protected. And I think they will finally find their way back to the armies and augment fantasy aspect of the game.

I can also tell you that next report will feature an Archmage on Star Dragon that will showcase the bigger ridden monster and how the new rules affect these Monsters!

Thanks for reading!

Cheers!
Last edited by Swordmaster of Hoeth on Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:52 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Elithmar
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - deployment

#2 Post by Elithmar »

This looks like it should be an interesting game. Two elven MSU armies! :) Although I know the result, I wasn't watching for most of the game so it'll still be interesting to see how you got to that result. His list looks stronger, I'd say, given his superior shooting which could do terrible damage to your small units. Nevertheless, we know how experienced you are with your army so it is by no means a forgone conclusion!

I think you got the advantage in deployment. Those executioners and dreadspears on his right are going to have a long way to march so they probably won't contribute much. Whatever happens, I am sure it will be bloody, as all elf vs elf games seem to be.

:D
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Swordmaster of Hoeth
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - deployment

#3 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Elithmar,

Yes, I noticed you in the peanut gallery! I hope you enjoyed the game and that now you can see in more details how things were developing. I agree that his list looks stronger, mainly due to the fact his shooting is based on repeaters and very mobile scouts and fast cavalry but also because it is not just a gun line.

Will try to post turn 1 tomorrow but as I said I am very curious about the comments at this stage. I also need to work on some kind of story line. What is interesting Marchosias DE are kind of Naggaroth outcasts too :P

Cheers!
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - deployment

#4 Post by Ferny »

Did you know from the start you were going to castle? Had you decided on that side?

Did you deploy your reavers back a bit with the intention of DPs going in front of them?

Very interested to hear your thoughts on deployment. John posted a really interesting article on it recently which deserves much love, and probably has been quiet just because of post end time lows, I know that's the only reason I haven't engaged with it yet. But nevertheless, a really interesting phase and the only one you can truly control what you do, so lots that can be learnt for it :).

What were your thoughts on the archers on the other flank? I think you'll struggle out there - they do prevent him just occupying that ground, but the shades and DR1 will pump out firepower, and with skirmish and wall, skirmish or cover from the scouts he should win the shooting war out there I think, with the dreadspears able to double time it up to support.

Round the other side it looks like a different matter though. Your cav have good arcs of control...their weakness will be his bolt throwers, and I don't know how that might play out (they're unreliable, but they're undoubtably his priority target IMO. The monster is a wildcard to me as well, will enjoy seeing how she's played. Looking forward to seeing this play out.
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - deployment

#5 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

HI Ferny,

Who said I was castling? I was simply using the terrain to my advantage, as I didn't intend to sit there and wait for the enemy to come. :)

Yes, I decided to have my troops there as I thought refused flank would allow me to avoid casualties (or rather minimize them) because LoS will be blocked or at least hard cover will be provided to the cavalry going there. And yes, reavers where there to make room for Dragon Princes and the option to move forward if possible or stay put if it was too risky (as it was).

My general thoughts on the deployment. I wanted to deploy in a way that does not put me into dangerous position if I was second, as it is usually the case. Majority of units are hidden, some have cover. If I happen to be first then I can always jump on the hill and use magic and shooting.

I positioned Archers and Bolt Thrower to create a crossing line of fire so that both flanks can support each other and shoot at the same target if needed. My initial plan with the Archers, though, was to attract attention, shoot but then speed forward past the enemy so that I can threaten bolt throwers from unexpected direction or go into the middle and do so against small units going through the center. Diverting the attention of some other regiments was also good because I had the advantage in numbers of units and whatever was sent there could help me on my right flank.

Cheers!
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - deployment

#6 Post by Rowena »

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:I also need to work on some kind of story line. What is interesting Marchosias DE are kind of Naggaroth outcasts too
Actually, our army has never been part of Naggaroth. If anything, we are Ulthuan outcasts, or rather a military fortress that was forgotten (or betrayed, as our elves would probably put it) and mistaken for those Chaos-worshipping idiots due to a simple misunderstanding. (How could we have known back then Malekith wasn't the perfect prince anymore? We were isolated by a Chaos invasion for a while and when we re-established contact, they attacked us!)
We actually hate Dark Elves ever since we found out about them trying to destroy the Vortex, our repeater crossbows are spoils of war we decided to keep. So while we think the High Elves from Ulthuan are stupid traitors and decadent hypocrites, we would definitely side with them against their dark cousins or against Chaos.

(Yes, we are making completely independent fluff and I guess I really should update the little summary on my blog)
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - deployment

#7 Post by Rowena »

Greetings everybody,

Marchosias speaking this time. As Ulthuan.net does not want to allow me in for some weird reason, I will have to comment from the account of my girlfriend.

My list

Well, I have tried MSU before but I had only limited success. It might have been my lack of skill, the armies I fought or just bad luck but too often, my executioners were being slaughtered even when charging a scar-veteran in the flank or fighting skullcrushers. Their largest problem is hitting their target – they might go on 3+ against most foes but out of 10 attacks, it is easy for them to only score, say, four hits. If this happens, or if the opponent rolls well for armour saves, the poor elves are facing a grim and very short future. One solution would be to give them more attacks but that is not that easy (it needs a bound spell from cauldron, a designated hero acompanying them or timewarp, there are no other possibilities as far as I know). Another would be to use other units to fight those armoured guys but they have their own problems. So in the recent monts, I was either playing them in horde or not at all.

However, the 9th age beasts magic offers one more chance to revive this idea. Under this system, the lore attribute is actually an additional spell that is cast whenever a normal spell goes through. In case of beasts magic, this spell can give a friendly unit either +1 attack or +1 strength. And it does not have to be the target of the original spell.

My friends, this is huge. It means that at least one combat buff is guaranteed. You might not know you can force through the wildform but you can rely on getting off something – and that something can give you quite a powerful buff as a side effect. Executioners with 15 attacks instead of 10 are more likely to produce at least, say, 6 hits. Warlocks with S5 can suddenly attempt to fight armoured units.

By the way, under the new rules, killing blow ignores armour and inflicts d3 wounds on everyone. So one more buff for executioners facing monstrous cavalry.

So the basic idea for the army was set – beasts magic, MSU infantry and some support. Spears are now hopefully usefull again as they have killing blow against some foes at least. I wanted my sorceress to fly – she wants to throw amber spears in the flank of cavalry units, give herself (or another suitable model) a breath weapon (new version of Transformation of Kadon) and be close enough to buff anyone who needs it. That requires some mobility! Besides, with the combined profile, T5 W4 is not that bad. Her equipment is not ideal I fear, I have misinterpreted the new rules for ridden monsters, but who cares, a healing potion is cool.

(New rules in short: big ridden monster -> defenses of rider are useless; small monster -> works like an eagle.)

And the BSB... well, she is a very sturdy model with high strength attacks that can buff near models significantly, what is not to like? She still only moves like an infantryman and is quite big so using her correctly is not easy. I am not sure without going through the pictures but I think this is an area where my play could have been improved quite a lot.

The enemy

Any unit can be dangerous if used right but the following threats were the most immediate:

His shooting that can kill my poor T3 unarmoured elves very quickly. I wanted to avoid being shot at by staying out of range and to kill his shooters with bolt throwers if possible. They have a big advantage in range so it should hopefully work. My other shooters could help too, of course, but their impact would be limited. In normal case (long range, move, multishot, no cover), dark riders have 10 shots hitting at 6+ and shades 10 shots hitting at 5+. They are not bad but expecting one squad of DR and one of shades to win against 15 archers would be too much I fear.

Here we come to another rules change: volley fire now allows a unit to ignore interfering units (if not moving I think). Therefore, while screening a unit with shades who are hard to shoot at might be generally a good idea it does not work against archers.

The other big threat are dragon princes whose role was surely to race forwards as fast as possible and destroy my bolt throwers. I had to prevent this as without RBTs, I would have little options how to kill the opposing shooters and would be going to be shot to bits. However, this goal is not straightforward. They survive RBT fire quite well (and until Turn 2 or 3 I thought they had 1+ armour, making me reluctant to aim shots at them). Executioners can be effective against them but only if they survive their attacks. So it was mostly a job for my heroes to counter them. Or for warlocks with doombolt or boosted strength.

Other units were not something I was thinking about too much in the beginning. Reavers and eagles will be hiding anyway before being assigned their task and the close combat infantry is slow. And will die horribly against my witches, spears and warlocks at least. Not that they are not dangerous, they are, but before I will have to worry about them, the situation will change quite a bit.

Deployment

The army Swordmaster has is awful in this regard. His first four drops reveal almost nothing (I thought the eastern reavers were a bit to the back because of scouts). Then he continued with two shooting units behind the hill which is a decision that still only says a little – and while I suspected the loremaster might go in the sea guard and the BSB will hide behind the hill it still said nothing about dragon princes. So I was putting my regiments down blindly more or less.

First of all, I wanted my RBTs out of range of opposing archers as a volley of 15 shots could with some luck destroy them. I was not happy about having to shoot through a forest all the time but better this than being destroyed turn 2. Besides, I expected dragon princes (or other units) to attack them as quickly as possible and wanted to have time to deal with them. If deployed more forwards, they could have been charged turn 2 in theory. And they had to be spread because otherwise, getting in cover or out of range would have been considerably easier for enemy units.

A spread deployment meant more difficult protection, however. The eastern flank was easy as I knew my heroes will be deployed behind the house anyway, to avoid bolt throwers shooting their way. I had to protect the western flank with spears, though, and they had to be either in the water or to the west of it. I thought that while they will probably be out of the game for quite a time after being deployed so far to the side, keeping my backline safe is worth it and they might be able to march to the middle and flank charge something.

The thoughts about executioners 1 were similar – I needed something to intercept a possible attempt to get behind my lines and I needed this something to stay out of range of the opposing shooters.

Otherwise, I was just trying to stay in cover and out of range (which I did not achieve entirely) and to have some means to intercept enemy attack, should it come. I am not convinced about the position of the cauldron, it should have probably been operating alone and amybe it should have been controlling the area to the east of the rocks but I am really not sure. Being in a unit protect the BSB from single shots. There is not that much space behind the house to hide her as well as the sorceress.

All things considered, I am relatively satisfied with my deployment. Swordmaster surely has an advantage here as his units can support each other better but that could have hardly been avoided given his advantage in cheap drops. I had something to destroy or at least keep busy his archers and enough regiments to stop the attack that was likely to come on the eastern flank.
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - deployment

#8 Post by Loriel »

Lookss really interesting game ;)

- Healing potion on combined profile monster? Interesting... really interesting. (has it cost being altered in 9th?)
- What spells did he have from beasts?
- I like small witch elves block. Tons of blendering attacks, expandable ;).
- that executioner cauldron unit looks interesting. For any flank attacks with DP they can really do damage hatred + reroll to wound makes dead knights, for frontal assault cauldron / hags will give any elites infantry real hard time and ogre bladed hag for the frontal DP. That is really point effective unit, but it can be shot down with small fire.
- BT1 has rather hard place, as it will have seriously hindered with hill on the left and out of range to right flank.
- I also think dread spears were deployed too far in edge. They probably cannot do much, other than face your archers (that will be shotdown by BT1 mostly...)

-----

I will predict 500+ VP victory for swordmaster. I don't know why, but that is just the way it seems and knowing that he is one of the best out there... :P
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - Turn 1

#9 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Many thanks for the comments! :)

@ Rowena

I definitely think you guys should update your great background and I hope this game can add nicely to the story line. My apologies for the misunderstanding but I think that is actually good "excuse" for the battle as Marchosias suggested when we exchanged some ideas. Outcasts may simply assume there is a hostile Druchii force nearby. That could also explain first turn when HE started the game too!

Let me know if you prefer other name than "Dark Elves" and I will change the titles where required! Looking forward to reading new background stories from you!

@ Marchosias

I totally agree with you that 9th Age lore of Beast is really, really good and it can be very helpful for MSU force you described. I hope to be able to use that lore attribute with my small elites as well. We just have to wait and see what they plan to do with army lists as they said they prepare "Ravening Hordes" versions to be released soon.

It is great to know what you think about my army from the point of view of the force you decided to take :) I am quite used to the fact that my opponents already know my style and army but their own host is usually a mystery for me. I can try to predict the roles for particular units but it is never the full picture.

Haha, I am glad I gave you some problems with guessing where to deploy your units and where I would position mine. This is quite exciting moment of the game where I had to decide on particular plan quickly and initially I didn't really favor any flank. I also picked the South because I didn't want to give you the opportunity to position bolt throwers on the slope of the hill that would give you additional cover.

@ Loriel

I updated the first post with the spells (and their descriptions) as well as added turn 1.

Can't comment too much on your points yet. Yes, witches were dangerous but expendable (even with the bonus for the banner) and my own elite do not stand a chance against them in the frontal attack. Don't want to think what they can do when augmented with the lore attribute and wildform!

I like cauldron with the Executioners too even if they have to get Frenzy through bound spell first. But again, plenty of means to augment them with spells.

I am quite curious how did you come up with 500VP :-P Marchosias is not a new or inexperienced player, he knows what he is doing. And he has the advantage of knowing his opponent very well :)

Cheers!
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - Turn 1

#10 Post by JimmyGrill »

Seems to have the potential for a very interesting battle. 4 RBT seem kinda brutal, though.
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - Turn 1

#11 Post by Rowena »

@ Swordmaster: We prefer to be called the Lost Colony if you do not mind. :)

Well, of course I had problems guessing your deployment, that is one of the points of MSU, right? :) Though it was not that much guessing as anticipating your reactions to my moves. The spears are a good example. I knew that by placing them so far to the west, I will make it easy for you to make them useless in most of the battle (and I was very happy and quite surprised you gave them archers as a target). On the other hand, I also knew that if I leave that spot unguarded, you will send something that way and it will not be pretty. I was forced to make some decision, knowing that you will then adjust your plans to make your position the best possible given my actions. So I was trying to give you as few opportunities as possible.

Regarding beasts attribute, it makes me drool just thinking about it. One wildform is enough to make my 10 witch elves able to defeat 3 skullcrushers with some luck. It could easily go wrong as the first round is very even and losing frenzy would be harsh but still, just having a decent chance is awesome. And bear in mind that skullcrushers are the prototype counter to witches - they can cope with high toughness thanks to poison but being S3, armour is their bane. Normally.

@ JimmyGrill: In my experience, 4 RBTs are important. Without them, enemy fliers can do whatever they please, and while their movement can be limited with the threat of a countercharge as well, doing this in practice is difficult as they usually only fear a small part of my army. And there can be some LOS blocking terrain helping them and so on. At the same time though, RBTs can easily miss so redundancy is needed. If a demon prince lands right in the middle of my army, I want my chance of bringing him down to be as big as possible. I will probably only have one turn to shoot. Even four RBTs might not suffice but their threat is so big that most people are not going to try. And while 4 RBTs are brutal against elves, so are 50 bow shots. :wink:

I can assure you, though, that the game really was quite interesting. :) Stay tuned. :)

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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - Turn 2

#12 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi guys, turn 2 is up!

@ JimmyGrill

4 RBT's is definitely a force to respect. As Marchosias added in his post, one thing you have is redundancy. You can focus their fire to make a dent in almost anything or spread it and affect several targets. Very versatile and no wonder people take them no matter how expensive they are (please note, they are 80 points under 9th Age rules).

And they can be, indeed, brutal. However, I have a played against them a few times and I learned that while I would never underestimate them and do my best to either kill them or limit their performance, it is still possible to get things done. More difficult to maneuver under such fire but still possible.

At least for this army it made sense to bring so many and didn't feel boring as with some bus lists :)

@ Marchosias

The titles were updated :)

I really like that interaction and mind games during the deployment. On one hand yes, you can tell that I kind of react to your choices. On the other, it is more taking the opportunity and using the advantage of more units to be placed. Pure reacting would immediately put me at a disadvantage.

I admit I risked my archers and with the benefit of a hindsight I should have positioned Sea Guard there rather than Archers but I committed SG already. That little Save would have made a difference there. I considered putting some more help in there and maybe I should have assigned one more regiment to that flank as well, to balance out the odds. I kind of felt, however, that by leaving these two units as they were I also take away some of your resources (you committed 3 regiments to take out 2) and I needed as much local superiority on the other flank as possible.

So while you were happy I offered you Archers there I was glad your fast units moved towards them and that I could prevent these 3 regiments from joining the fight on the other flank.

Cheers!
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - Turn 3

#13 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi guys,

Just letting you know turn 3 is up!

Cheers!
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - Turn 3

#14 Post by Rowena »

Time for me to comment a little I suppose.

While the first turn was not spectacular I got quite lucky in the second, with sea guard blowing up and archers panicking. Thanks to this, I was sure I will be able to get all of the enemy shooters, thus creating a situation where Swordmaster is pressed to attack while I am not. Still, even with all his shooters dead (and it was still not clear if my depleted regiment of spears would be sufficient to kill his archers), there was a lot that could go wrong.

I think executioners 1 were going in the wrong direction. There is nothing to fight on the south - they should have wheeled or reformed and proceeded to the east, to intercept dragon princes or something. Create a second line for my formation, giving me a chance to countercharge if needed.

Turn 3, I got confused what I wanted to shoot. Ideally, I would have liked to get down reavers and eagle which should be easily possible with three RBTs, three shades and two DRs but due to the badly positioned cauldron, I failed. I should have probably moved warlocks right in front of both the dragon princes units to stall their advance a bit more. The eastmost RBT had a chance to singleshot Bob which I took but it failed. I should have not been greedy - would have been better to move the RBT to the west. Ranged superiority was mine and I was correct in postponing close combat but it could have been done with more precision. Doing this, I could have also sent cauldron somewhere to the position of the warlocks on the diagram, tempting Bob for an epic fight and threatening with a contercharge on the DPs. This would have made killing the eagle somewhat easier.

Note that the RBT on the west has so far been able to shoot every turn - archers, then sea guard, then reavers. Its position might not be that bad after all. :wink:

Also, I did quite a bit mistake this turn that has not been mentioned yet. Bonus points for anyone who notices. :D
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - Turn 3

#15 Post by Ferny »

Well outcasts T3 shows a lot of repositioning, with the battle-line looking quite cramped on the north eastern flank (usually it looks much more 'graceful'). Is this a consequence of making use of the terrain to shelter from RBTs? It's a shame there aren't (can't be) model shots here - I sort of feel I'd get a different vibe from those than exclusively from the diagrams.

It's interesting to hear both players emphasising the ranged advantage and the impact that has on gameplay, and I've seen other experienced players on Ulthuan say similar things. I think definitely I never quite mastered the shooting element of combined arms. Great to see it with played out examples.

Losing the DPs - ouch! SM - was there anything you could have done to prevent that do you think? I think perhaps not given the set up. Don't suppose it tempts you towards a scroll does it? And on that point, given that they're one use only to prevent something major, would you even consider that to be the 'must stop' spell of the game or would you have risked sacrificing the claw to hold onto the scroll for later if you did have one?

RE archers - could you have avoided the panic through deployment, given that the RBT is an obvious target for destruction? Or would that have meant no cover from the woods? Might have made quite a difference in the upcoming face off vs the spears. This is the type of observation you make when looking back over the bat reps, although possibly there was no avoiding it.

At this point I have a prediction. SMs force is looking increasingly fragmented, with limited shooting left, so mostly relying on Larry for ranged impact (once the archers are engaged). The DPs, bob and the eagle maybe able to do something (and S2 following up) but also looking somewhat contained, and the rest of the force looks vulnerable. I've not been tracking losses on either side, but I think from here on the Lost Colony might lose small units in NE, and estimated 2 units of Executioners/WE plus maybe the wizard who keeps getting chipped away at, but SM will lose archers, larry and the SMs, the northern cavalry force and maybe bob. Reasonably decisive win the the LC I think.

Lets see how it plays out! Thanks for the report and input both.
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - Turn 3

#16 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Thanks for comments!

@ Marchosias

Thanks for commenting! It is always great to have the point of view of both sides and I am happy you could find time to comment.

You definitely gained a good advantage by now and you played very well, exploiting the mistake I made with moving Sea Guard and Sisters too early. I miscalculated and thought I would be able to use that to my advantage when I got first turn but it happened I was not in range with all the shooters and magic was not as successful as I hoped for. Maybe I was too optimistic about it too :)

It is very interesting to know that you considered moving bolt thrower further to the West and that is a very good idea. As you said you have already gained shooting superiority (although in my opinion you had that advantage from the beginning) but I also understand the temptation to shoot enemy's character.

I think I have fallen into similar trap where I should have cast the fireball at your bolt thrower instead of the Sorceress. She is very dangerous with her spells but sometimes it is better to go for targets that can be destroyed easier.

In any case, there is a good summary of what has happened so far made by Eastern Barbarian when I showed him the situation. He simply stated I am in a big trouble. And he didn't use kind words :D

@ Ferny

I decided to go for wide outflanking maneuver along the edge and that is always difficult because I kind of do it against my preferences. I like to have space for sweeping maneuvers while moving like that puts a lot of constraints on the army. Yes, bolt throwers can force that approach but it is not the only reason. If there were fewer and more clumsy regiments I can risk going wide too. With other fast elements in Marchosias army I had to counter them too. So going in force this way was to ensure that despite casualties I could maintain the pressure. Having faster units to spearhead the advance while infantry forming second wave aimed on being faster upon the enemy before he could bring the reinforcements in. As well as having second wave ready to counter attack.

Losing Dragon Princes was tough but there was a favorable combination for Marchosias and I could not avoid it any longer. First, he could start flying in a more free manner as the bolt thrower that could aim at his Sorceress was gone. Second, despite low winds of magic he had twice as many power dice and that resulted in a roll I could match only if I rolled double 6's. It is almost impossible to avoid flank shot by flying wizard too.

The only alternative I have now is to position BSB in between the units, so that first unit, closer to the rocks, has its flank protected, while second unit has its flank blocked by BSB. Also, BSB should face to the West so that he could see both, the units in the North and potentially Sorceress if she landed in that spot. I had other units too far to intercept and she had a clear shot. With 3 dice and good roll I decided to let it go and dispel whatever was left. It might have been a mistake but getting double 6 was not a sound plan either.

Good point about the Archers. I didn't check the distance and that was bad. I should have. It was perfectly possible to separate them a little. It does not mean I would be able to defend that flank with Archers alone but I would be able to have one more round of shooting or even moving forward instead. It is very annoying that such details still happen.

I cannot comment on your predictions of course but thanks for making these as it is very intriguing to see what you read from the situation. :)

Cheers!
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - Turn 4

#17 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi guys,

Just letting you know that turn 4 is up!

Cheers!
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - Turn 4

#18 Post by Elithmar »

I haven't read the other comments yet so I'm sorry if I'm repeating something.

Turn one

I wonder if you could have been more aggressive with the Dragon Princes here. It looks like you could use the impassable terrain to shield them from the Sorceress's view and you could probably beat Dark Riders if they charge you, given that you'd get 10 attacks and they'd only have S4. I suppose you wouldn't want them to get too far ahead and isolated though.

I like how Marchosias used the terrain to protect his Shades here, but the right flank looks vulnerable to the Dark Riders being panicked and running through the Shades (or even being destroyed and panicking them).

Turn two

Was there no way to keep the Reavers out of sight without sacrificing the Eagle? It seems a bit premature, since he has no reason to charge and can just shoot it down (or even charge. Reavers shouldn't pose too much of a threat). The new miscast rules seem good, punishing you if you use a lot of dice.

Huge blow for the High Elves here, since shooting was the only way to deal with some elements of the Dark Elf army. Looks like a hard decision in the magic phase, but I suppose you didn't have to charge the Warlocks so it was better to just save the Dragon Princes.

Turn three

How far was the Eagle's charge? It doesn't look too unlikely. I wonder which Elven army is going to stop dancing around the other one first. :P

I don't understand why Marchosias didn't charge the Eagle with the Dark Riders or at least shoot it down. He's just sacrificing a bolt thrower. The Executioners also look vulnerable to a charge from the Swordmasters, although it might be a little far.

Turn four

The Archers seem to be faring pretty well by themselves. However, taking the Eagle out in turn three would have meant you couldn't charge into the Warlocks confidently and it looks like it wasn't such a long charge for the Swordmasters after all.

Did Marchosias lose any dice with his miscast? Otherwise I can't see why he didn't use his three remaining dice to try Curse of Anrahier on the Swordmasters. Still, it may just be due to missing detail here.


Thanks for the report so far. It still seems extremely close! :D Looking forward to turns five and six.
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - Turn 4

#19 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

HI Elithmar,

No problem if you do (and you didn't!). I am happy to reply again if that happens.

I don't think I would have been able to get into the cover of the Rocks with a single move. I was concerned that I might either be too close to some shooters or too much in the open. Also, if I were to move to close the Sorceress would simply jump to the flank and I would be getting amber spear turn 1.

No, I could not prevent that, i.e. if I wanted a clear shot at a single Shade with them I had to block with the eagle. My conclusion also was that I could pull out Cauldron out of the formation if it charged. Although Marchosias kept telling me it does not have Frenzy automatically, just a bound spell. Anyway, if they charged against reavers I could not risk it but I was in a bad position to flee either.

The risk was that if he charged successfully the overrun would hit Dragon Princes and I had only single unit of Swordmasters there to counter. With the cauldron there I had little chance to survive.

That eagle charge was a disaster. I was 16" away and of course got 5 on swiftstride :)

I believe Marchosias wanted to shoot it but then he forgot about the new Line of Sight rules that mean the Large Target as Cauldron may block visibility. If he moved better he would have been able to shoot the Eagle I think.

I think you guessed the thing Marchosias was hinting about. It was not easy to spot from the diagram but I was happy to notice the opportunity. The distance was not too far, I believe 12" for the flanking Swordmasters. I proceeded to roll double 6's for them! However, I also wanted Larry and his Bodyguards to get there and they promptly got double 1's :) It was good charge because with overrun they would hit flank of the Sorceress and I might have had a chance to kill her in a single combat.

Yes, with the result 9 on the table for Overwhelming power you lose the number of power dice used so he had not dice left to cast any more spells.

Thanks again for detailed comments! Always good to have astute reader on board!

Cheers!
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - 10.09

#20 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Just finished the report! Enjoy!

Cheers!
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Ferny
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - 10.09

#21 Post by Ferny »

Well done on clawing it back and disproving my prediction. Where did it all go right?

As you say, getting the first big charge off and over-rinning into the sorcerous really paid off. As you say, this was a clincher. This might be a good case for swordmasters with their high attacks for frontage...were you ever worried about return attacks and in particular thunderstomp (does it still exist?), or were you not worried about that, or was it a risk but one outweighed by the rewards. If it was a concern, was there a back up option if you lost there? Maybe Bob I think?

I think in part the chariot should have charged your DPs when they were first in that corner - they went on to rampage through the now unprotected back line. That could have made a big difference.

Great game, thanks for posting.

PS. LC T5 photo is not showing.
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - 10.09

#22 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Ferny,

Thanks for the quick reply!

Catching the sorceress was huge. Not only I got a lot of points but her magic was shut down. In addition I eliminated Warlocks, another source of worry. It was still not over and I kept losing units but then very unlucky DT roll for Dark Riders and 3 Bolt throwers were worth almost 400VP too. In addition the fact that under 9th Age you still get points for fleeing units helped to get few more extra to the total score.

But getting the Sorceress was probably the sole game changer. I will wait for Marchosias to comment on that because at the time it was not clear if I can make that charge with Swordmasters. I got lucky in a way that the unit from the flank was in. If I attacked from the front I believe I would be able to grind them down too but at higher cost. And I would put the Loremaster in danger.

I was concerned with tstump of course. It is a huge bonus and it is really powerful. No need to hit, just roll well and infantry is gone. My plan B was indeed BSB. After destroying warlocks in DE turn I reformed him so that he was looking South and he was ready to swoop down and help Swordmasters. If I lost and fled that would have been harder of course but that would also depend on what would Marchosias do. If he pursued he still might have been in the range of Larry and his Swordmasters or even BSB. If not, he would probably fly elsewhere but again, I had his turn to reform my BSB and see where his Sorceress is. I am sure I would be hunting her with magic too.

Photo was corrected too! Thanks for letting me know!

Cheers!
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - 10.09

#23 Post by Elithmar »

I was actually watching at that point, so I saw the Swordmasters just had line of sight. :P I was meaning the other Swordmasters really though (who were quite clearly in line of sight - perhaps a slightly long charge though, since Marchosias didn't seem concerned about this?).

Turn five

I was surprised you didn't charge Bob into a second bolt thrower, but I suppose by this point they're not much of a threat and you might fail the charge (likely with your dice! ;) ), allowing the cauldron to counter charge. Were you intending for him to charge the infantry in the centre on turn six, or was it in case the Swordmasters lost combat, to give them a reroll?

Wrong diagram for the Lost Colony? :P The Dragon Princes are worth more points than the Swordmasters, so perhaps a better idea to charge them? Or maybe Marchosias was relying on shooting to deal with the Dragon Princes and he got unlucky? It seems like only one bolt thrower would have a clear shot though.

Turn six

Nice to see the rampage of the Dragon Princes! If Marchosias had gone with the safer option of charging the cauldron into the Dragon Princes, those bolt thrower points would have been saved. Was there any need to sacrifice the Swordmasters here? I don't know how likely it was that Bob would make either charge. Would it have been possible to avoid the cauldron without sacrificing the Swordmasters? (Obviously yes, so that is why I ask whether Bob was likely to make his charges and if that is why you blocked the cauldron)


I think it's a good idea to get the Book. :lol: Having said that, failing to cast isn't quite as bad now and the Book is more expensive. Certainly see if you like it though.

Congratulations to Marchosias. :) I was an exciting game to read about and I'm sure to play. Thanks very much for the report. :)
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - 10.09

#24 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Elithmar,

The diagram should be correct now :)

I didn't show that properly but Marchosias moved his Bolt Thrower (BT4) to the left a turn before so I would have a long charge to get there. When Dragon Princes finished BT3 they had 18" charge to make there (but I made it!).

I also was not sure about the Sorceress and Swordmasters so wanted to have an eye on her just in case. In fact, Swordmasters with 9 Attacks, hitting on 3+ and wounding on 5+ got exactly 1 wound this time so it was close.

I wanted him to be ready to charge units in the center too if possible. Swordmasters won their first combat but no harm in getting rerolls just in case.

Dragon Princes were actually lucky in their situation because they failed to kill first BT and while in combat they could have not been targeted. Then they made the long charge and were constantly in combat too.

It was also my mistake with diagram that shows that Cauldron could attack Dragon princes. I managed to combat reform them out of sight and thanks to that save them. Otherwise I am sure Marchosias would attack them and save his Bolt throwers as well as dark riders.

It is possible I made a mistake with BSB and his last turn charge but he was the only model I could use to catch these infantry units. I also had no opportunity to swift reform and move away from Cauldron with Swordmasters so I had to use them to block it. If I fled he could attack BSB and it was too close to flee to safety. So unfortunately, brave Swordmasters who defeated a Manticore died for the greater good.

Nah, I was joking about the book :) I don't really think I need it. Especially now when it is more expensive.

It is quite interesting with magic now because on one hand you can keep casting spells. But in this game it really meant that all following spells were dispelled easier. First, Marchosias had more dispel dice than me and he still added +4 to dispel attempts. I could risk 5 dicing something but it is a huge risk with new rules of the feedback.

Thanks for your comments!
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - 10.09

#25 Post by Rowena »

Sorry for the delay - I should probably add some final comments. :)

Turn 3, eagle: I just messed up. I was planning to shoot it down and was quite confident that with RBTs, shades and riders I would be able to do so. However, a combination of bad positioning and not-so-good rolling made that impossible.

Turn 3, executioners in front of the sorceress: I only anticipated the loremaster swordmasters attacking and I did not fear this indeed. Back then, my executioners still had hatred so I was likely to do quite a few wounds to the SMs; I would probably lose the combat but the remnants of the SMs should be unable to do anything meaningful. And the loremaster and his depleted bodyguards would then either be thunderstomped by the manticore or shot down by something.

I should have probably fled from the flank charge, though. It did not even cross my mind, I was probably too bloodthirsty or what. :)

Turn 4 and onwards, bolt throwers: here I forgot to check the distance from the (soon to be) victorious dragon princes to my BT4. I could have just moved it to the left and got out of the maximum charge distance. There was not much to shoot at anyway. That was just a stupid oversight.

Turn 6, Bob charges shades: For a while, I was contemplating to hold. They would get destroyed but the griffon would then end in the open. However, the overrun distance for DPs was not that long and even if not, two RBTs are not that likely to kill a guy with 4W and 4+ ward so I fled. A shame, could have been a hilarious ending. :D

Turn 5, charge of witches: I was thinking about reforming them facing east. With some luck I could have maybe caught the loremaster. In the end, I went for the easier option in fear of overlooking something. Do you think I had a chance here?

Overall, I am quite satisfied with the result because while Swordmaster is the better player when it comes to positioning of many units, as evidenced Turn 3, I managed not to get stomped. :)

And I would like to thanks Swordmaster for the game once more. As many of you probably know already, he can be quite charming. :)
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - 10.09

#26 Post by razorfate »

Hi there,
Thanks for the batrep, always fun to read.
I want to ask about the Beasts lore attribute. It says the attribute's spell effect is focused agument, so it can only target a single model such as a character inside a unit, but all the posts here says as if it can buff an entire unit.
Am i missing sth here?
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Re: MSU HE - 9th Age - 2400 vs DE - 10.09

#27 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi razorfate,

No, it was our mistake and misunderstanding of the new paths of magic. it indeed affects single model only.

Cheers!
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