1000pt HE vs Bret - Descending back into WHFB

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Xorn
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:29 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

1000pt HE vs Bret - Descending back into WHFB

#1 Post by Xorn »

I've started playing WHFB after years of neglecting my plastic crack habit of old. To toe myself back into the world of fantasy battle I decided to join a Doubles Tournament in my local GW store. 1000 points for each player, and you can either join as a pair or join a random other single player.
I went to said GW store on 25/06/2015 to get a few practice games in if I had time, challenging anyone who seemed to be looking for match. Enter a Bretonnian player whose name I shall keep for privacy reasons. He was fairly new to WHFB and was learning to play from a very experienced friend of his, who helped us both with rules.

I want to record my games so I can easily look back on them, but also so you fine folks can criticize and scrutinize my misplays so I learn how to be a better general. Battles are also usually fairly fun stories to tell.

When creating my High Elf list I was under the impression that the tournament was to be played with 8.0 rules, but I found out when facing my opponent that indeed the rules were 8.5 but without the silly magic. All my worry about the Noble sans armour were unfounded, but it's good to know for next week where he will be donning a metal suit like a real Elf.

My List
1000 Pts - High Elves Roster - High Elves 1000pts Ohno!

Heroes
Mage (1#, 155 pts)
. . 1 Mage, 155 pts (General; Level 2 Wizard; Hand Weapon)
. . . . 1 Golden Crown of Atrazar
. . . . 1 Khaine's Ring of Fury (Soul Quench)
. . . . The Lore of High Magic

Noble (1#, 95 pts)
. . 1 Noble, 95 pts (Battle Standard Bearer; Hand Weapon; Light Armour;)

Core
Lothern Sea Guard (19#, 258 pts)
. . 18 Lothern Sea Guard, 258 pts (Musician; Standard Bearer; Spear; Bow; Light Armour; Shield)
. . . . 1 Sea Master (Spear; Bow; Light Armour; Shield;)

Ellyrian Reavers (5#, 85 pts)
. . 5 Ellyrian Reavers, 85 pts (Hand Weapon; Bow; Light Armour)
. . . . 5 Elven Steed (Swiftstride)

Special
Phoenix Guard (17#, 330 pts)
. . 16 Phoenix Guard, 330 pts (Musician; Standard Bearer; Halberd; Heavy Armour)
. . . . 1 Keeper of the Flame (Halberd; Heavy Armour;)
. . . . 1 Razor Standard (Armour Piercing)

Rare
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower, 70 pts (Repeater Bolt Thrower; Armour Piercing; Multiple Wounds (D3))
. . . . 2 Sea Guard Crew (Hand Weapon; Light Armour)

Total Roster Cost: 993
[spoiler]Special Thanks to alex87 and vetril for helping me with my list! I was planning on having another ECBT and an Eagle, but my order didn't show up in time, so I had to substitute with more PGs and the Reavers.[/spoiler]

Opponents List (my close approximation)
1000 Pts - Bretonnia Roster - Bretonnians 1000pts Opp List

Heroes
Damsel of the Lady (1#, 109 pts)
. . 1 Damsel of the Lady, 109 pts (General; Level 1 Wizard; Hand Weapon; Barding)
. . . . 1 Dispel Scroll
. . . . 1 The Lore of Beasts
. . . . 1 Warhorse (Purebreed Warhorse; Swiftstride)

Paladin (1#, 204 pts)
. . 1 Paladin, 204 pts (Battle Standard Bearer; Knight's Vow; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Barding)
. . . . 1 Virtue of Audacity (Cost Multiplier x1)
. . . . 1 Banner of the Lady
. . . . 1 Warhorse (Purebreed Warhorse; Swiftstride)

Core
Knights of the Realm (7#, 192 pts)
. . 6 Knights of the Realm, 192 pts (Knight's Vow; Musician; Standard Bearer; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield)
. . . . 1 Gallant (Knight's Vow; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield)
. . . . 7 Warhorse (Purebreed Warhorse; Swiftstride)

Men-at-Arms (20#, 127 pts)
. . 19 Men-at-Arms, 127 pts (Peasant's Duty; Musician; Standard Bearer; Hand Weapon; Spear; Light Armour; Shield)
. . . . 1 Yeoman Warden (Peasant's Duty; Hand Weapon; Spear; Light Armour; Shield)

Peasant Bowmen (16#, 116 pts)
. . 15 Peasant Bowmen, 116 pts (Peasant's Duty; Musician; Standard Bearer; Hand Weapon; Longbow; Defensive Stakes)
. . . . 1 Villein (Peasant's Duty; Hand Weapon; Longbow)

Rare
Grail Knights (6#, 248 pts)
. . 6 Grail Knights, 248 pts (Grail Vow; Standard Bearer; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Heavy Armour)
. . . . 6 Warhorse (Purebreed Warhorse; Swiftstride)
[spoiler]I had to guess a little, with some values. His Grail Knights were not 100% assembled, but there were 6 horses running around. Everything else came into play at one point or another.[/spoiler]


The Battle Report

Deployment
Image
Deployment on a 4x4 board is more felt a lot more restrictive than it should have done, but I felt safe trying to hold the middle with Ruins on my left and a forest on my right. I placed my ECBT on a hill deep in my zone, in the hopes that it was untouchable.
He placed his archers (if you could call them that, puny peasants) on a hill in a very long line using stakes to dissuade me, and put his knights near the centre of the board.

I used vanguard to put my Reavers further ahead, and make up for a few inches of my own error.
He used this time to pray, and allow me to go first.

Top of Turn 1 - HE
Image

Movement - I used marched my Reavers in front of the Men at Arms, hoping to slow their advance towards me, while I whittle them down. Phoenix Guard with Noble BSB moved up slowly, staying outside of charge range. Lothern Sea Guard and Mage moved up, but I forgot to measure the 18'' I needed to cast 2 of my 3 spells. Whoops. At least they were outside of charge range!
Magic - My Mage was clearly rusty, and did not start the battle well. With 4 dice he managed to Miscast a Tempest. Incoming 5 dead LSG and to only 4 dead MoA thanks to amazing armour saving throws.
Shooting - The Reavers failed to wound on their shots, and the ECBT put a single shot wide of the enemy BSB.
Combat - None to be had.

Bottom of Turn 1 - Bret
Image

Movement - He decides to charge my Reavers with his MaA, I declare to flee. All according to plan I thought, until he rolled 2 6's to chase them down. I rolled a dismal 8 on 3 dice, but with the 7 inches between the units I thought that was enough. Those MaA had clearly eaten their Wheaties... The Knights of the Realm with Paladin and Damsel moved up to within easy charge range, as did the Grail Knights.
Magic - He Damsel attempted to cast her one spell, but seeing my Mage explode his unit made her fearful. 3 dice was enough to cast, but not enough to get past my dispel attempt.
Shooting - The peasants attempted shooting my ECBT, but it proved far too tough. That or peasants do what peasants do.
Combat - None as of yet.

Top of Turn 2 - HE
Image

Movement - Somewhat dismayed and still suffering from the Olympian MaA, I decided that it was best to move my PG up, in the hope to soak the charge of the Knights, keeping my LSG and Mage free to do as they wished. ECBT sat still, looking on at the slaughtered Reavers.
Magic - My Mage did not explode this turn thankfully but, between dispell scrolls and dispell dice, the Damsel managed to foil all 3 attempts at spells. Curses!
Shooting - The ECBT decided revenge was in order and blasted away at the MaA killing of 2 more of their number. The LSG did nothing of note.
Combat - Nothing yet but, judging by my opponents face, it's clear that the Bretonnians are eager to start it. Hopes were pinned on 4+ ward saves.

Bottom of Turn 2 - Bret
Image

Movement - CHARGE!!! The Knights of the Realm and Grail Knights both declared charges on the Phoenix Guard who courageously (or stupidly depending on whom you asked) held their ground. Both unit made it into combat. The MaA turned to face the fight, safe inside their Abyssal Wood. They already made me fear them, but now the rules made me do it.
Magic - The Damsel, safe in the 2nd row of Knights, attempted once for to make her Knights more powerful but my Mage was good for something; stopping her attempt.
Shooting - The peasants prove they can indeed hit barns, and shot my LSG unit for another two elves. The eternal shame for their legacies.
Combat - Thank Khaine for Always Strike First! Between my Noble and the PG, 2 GK and 5 KotR were slain before their lances ever touched my elves. The Razor Standard proving it's worth. In return however, the knights inflicted 7 wounds on the unit. 7 4+ ward saves, easy right? 7 dead elves, who clearly didn't witness anything at all in their destiny. Thanks to the banner the Paladin was carry I didn't get a point of Combat Res from my 1 extra rank but, after a lot of conferring over rules with 5 different people, I was allowed to keep Steadfast for the PG unit. They stayed in combat, though on a double 1. Not like the rules discussion mattered then!
The PG had weathered the lightening of the Knights, and weren't particularly afraid of the thunder that would follow.

Top of Turn 3 - HE
Image

Movement - The LSG decided to man up and charge the now static Knights, and made it easily. The ECBT looked on, probably grabbing snacks from the nearby house in between shots.
Magic - Alarielle preserve us! My Mage was free of the combat thanks to the way I had set the unit up, and used this opportunity to attempt Soul Quench on 3 dice at the nearby spooky MaA. Miscast. Double 1's. Sucked into the warp, and 6 Sea Guard perish along with him. Centuries spent learning spell-weaving and magic, only to get into contact with the battlefield and suck himself into the warp. He shall be missed. Along with the Golden Crown he was carrying. The fool.
On the plus, Soul Quench went off and killed 3 MaA.
Shooting - The ECBT crew were pre-occupied with the dimensional rift in the middle of combat, and failed to hit anything.
Combat - My Noble accepted a challenge from a Grail Knight, and struck him down before the poor man could attack him back. The PG continued to hack away like the good wood chipper they are, killing off a further 2 GKs and a Knight of the Realm. This put the poor Damsel in the front line. She promptly shanked a Sea Guard. Bint.
The Paladin and Captain of the KotR attacked the LSG, being the softer target, killing one. The Knights passed their check, 2nd time round, and stuck around for more. The LSG reduced to 4 men stacked up as a 2x2 unit.

Bottom of Turn 3 - Bret
Image

Movement - The MaA decided that their Knightly brethren were not worth their valuable time, and proceeded to turn towards the lonely ECBT on the hill.
Magic - The Damsel again tried to cast the augment, but having only 1 spell makes it easy to dispell.
Shooting - The peasants fired at the only thing left to shoot at, and failed to deal any damage to the warmachine.
Combat - The Damsel was chopped to pieces, despite a Grail Knight winning a challenge versus my Lothern Captain. The other GK was cut down, in return for a pair of Sea Guards. Thanks to the Banners and BSB, combat was won by the elves, but the pesky Knights stayed.

Top of Turn 4 - HE
Image

Movement - None was done.
Magic - Thanks to the Mages mishaps, none was left to do.
Shooting - The ECBT fired upon the MaA, killing 2. Unimpressive, but they have been through a lot this battle. Clearly it took it's toll on them.
Combat - The PG did their duty and hacked the remaining Grail Knight from his saddle and, with help from the Noble, slew the Paladin to boot. The remaining Knight and his horse slew 3 Sea Guard, and fled the scene. The last Sea Guard, holding his units banner high, turned to face the MaA, as did the PG.
In retrospect, I should have chased with my PG unit. Even if they did not catch the remaining Knight, they at least could have kept him running away for the rest of the game.

Bottom of Turn 4 - Bret
Image

Movement - The captain of the KotR rallied and turned back towards the field while the MaA unit marched up towards my ECBT, to ensure they would be in charge range.
Magic - None to be had
Shooting - The peasants saw an opportunity to wipe out a unit, and proceeded to fire at my poor remaining shell shocked LSG. A bit overkill in my opinion, 16 arrows for one elf, but who am I to argue with Victory Points.
Combat - None to be had.

Top of Turn 5 - HE
Image

Movement - The Phoenix Guard unit moved up to the MaA, thinking that if the ECBT was to get charged and the crew slain, the PG would get them sweet revenge.
Magic - None to be had.
Shooting - As it turns out, the crew had other ideas. Firing 6 shots and killing 3 MaA forced them to flee away from them. Not so scary now! The MaA retreated a herculean 11 inches away.
Combat - None to be had

Bottom of Turn 5 - Bret
Image

Movement - The MaA continued to flee at amazing rates, with a full pace 12 inches. The lone Knight moved towards them in an attempt to quell the panic and fear in the unit.
Magic - None to be had.
Shooting - The peasants, gloating with their previous kill, decided to turn back to it's old target. With much more success, they killed a crew member.
Combat - None to be had.

Top of Turn 6 - HE
Image

Movement - The PG unit moved up towards the enemy, for show more than anything.
Magic - None.
Shooting - The lone crew member clearly had not woke up on the right side of the bed today, and failed to hit the remaining Knight with a single shot.
Combat - None.

Bottom of Turn 6 - Bret
Image

Movement - The MaA had only to pass a LD8 check to rally themselves, but decided that they would be going for the Olympic gold instead and proceeded to run the final 11 inches off the board. Luckily the peasant bowmen were far to impressed with the MaA unit and stood their ground as opposed to join them.
Magic - None
Shooting - In a last ditch effort to steal points away, the bowmen lined up and fired at the ECBT crew again. 5 hits, but no final crucial wound. And with that the game was over and it was time to count the final score.
Combat - None

FINAL SCORE
High Elves - 938 points
Bretonnians - 623 points

A High Elf victory was called on the night, though how justified is up to the members of this fine forum.
I felt it was a fairly close game, though I think I did more damage to myself than my opponent managed to do. Maybe next time I won't get rather unlucky with 3 dice spell attempts (for those interested, it's a 2/27 or 7.41% chance to miscast on 3 dice; clearly luck was not with my Mage.)
Any feedback regarding formatting or the game itself is greatly appreciated, as this is my first attempt at a Battle Report!

Thanks for reading, and happy war-gaming!

(Previously posted on DakkaDakka, but will be moving my posting over to here if cross-posting is frowned upon)
User avatar
Loriel
Posts: 762
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:27 am
Location: Winterfell

Re: 1000pt HE vs Bret - Descending back into WHFB

#2 Post by Loriel »

First of all welcome to warhammer fantasy and to ulthuan (or 45.40.135.47 ;) )

Secondly I will comment as I read ;)
Xorn wrote: I want to record my games so I can easily look back on them, but also so you fine folks can criticize and scrutinize my misplays so I learn how to be a better general. Battles are also usually fairly fun stories to tell.
This sounds excellent! I hope we here in Ulthua may help you. I personally found out that actual doing the reports were really educating as when you had a chance of thinking what could I have done differently many times I realized some really obvious choices that eluded me during the actual game.
Xorn wrote: When creating my High Elf list I was under the impression that the tournament was to be played with 8.0 rules,
I personally don't think that 50% character allowance really makes a real difference to us high elves, besides small games which allows some lords to enter battle. Well perhaps fielding a star dragon prince with archmage is the "only" real option it gives... Well that is just me.
Xorn wrote: Heroes
Mage (1#, 155 pts)
. . 1 Mage, 155 pts (General; Level 2 Wizard; Hand Weapon)
. . . . 1 Golden Crown of Atrazar
. . . . 1 Khaine's Ring of Fury (Soul Quench)
. . . . The Lore of High Magic
I am one of the biggest fans of high magic, but I think it has better synergy in bigger games. On the otherhand double soul quench can really hurt your enemy ;) One of our best choices for small games is loremaster of hoeth as it will offer tons of tools and is fairly decent in close combat. (especially with the 50% allowance you can kit him more defensively)
Xorn wrote: Noble (1#, 95 pts)
. . 1 Noble, 95 pts (Battle Standard Bearer; Hand Weapon; Light Armour;)
I think that bsb in such small game for us is really not worth the investment. But if you would field him so nakedly I would try to find a points for great weapon / halberd for the extra punch. Think about it that with the same cost you could field almost unit of 10 white lions, silver helm dart, bolt thrower etc. I think minimum point allowance is 1600 to field bsb with elves and it becomes "mandatory" in 2400 (unless playing highly avoidance lists)
Xorn wrote: Core
Lothern Sea Guard (19#, 258 pts)
How did you feel about the sea guards? Did they perform well? It is generally considered that LSG is rather poor choice as simple archers can do almost equal job as these babies. I understand that you most likely have 2 x Island of Blood set.
Xorn wrote: Ellyrian Reavers (5#, 85 pts)
Solid choice. I personally have started to use them with spears, but this is most to my own playing style as I tend to sacrifice them fairly early in game.
Xorn wrote: Phoenix Guard (17#, 330 pts))
. . . . 1 Razor Standard (Armour Piercing)
Really good unit. I think that phoenix guard is one of the best choices in all cornering sense. Razor standard is just something that I think is made for PG ;)
Xorn wrote: [spoiler]Special Thanks to alex87 and vetril for helping me with my list! I was planning on having another ECBT and an Eagle, but my order didn't show up in time, so I had to substitute with more PGs and the Reavers.[/spoiler]
Eagle is really good choice and was really staple choice (well 2 x eagles) during the 7th edition. However atleast in my rosters poor eagle is almost completely replaced with reavers which are fairly as good (or better in same cases due vanguard and ability to make bigger footprint) doing the job what eagles are excellent. But the real power of reavers is that they come from core
Xorn wrote: Opponents List (my close approximation)
1000 Pts - Bretonnia Roster - Bretonnians 1000pts Opp List
I don't have lot of experience of Bretonnia. Seems rather ok list.
Xorn wrote: The Battle Report
Cheers!

Xorn wrote: Deployment
I don't know what kind of terrain rules you were using, but you could have deployed ECB inside the building. It would allow it to have better line of sight, give -2 hit modifier for the peasants should they try to kill the two poor bolt thrower crews. In such small table he couldn't really out move from the range, besides in far left corner. It wouldn't necessarely being the best choice here and probably don't affect the game, but I though that since you were new player you might not know this ;)

It seems if my eyes doesn't fail me, that you placed noble inside the phoenix guard and mage inside the lsg. With level 2 (and 3 x high magic spells) it would only need one cast to make phoenix guard 3+ save. If you want to make the mage more CC orientated (archmage is little better for this job) but talisman of preservation will be really good choice for level 2 high magic caster inside PG. PG alongside rbt is only unit that really can fight those grail knights and realm knights. LSG can tackle those peasants.
Xorn wrote: I used vanguard to put my Reavers further ahead, and make up for a few inches of my own error.
He used this time to pray, and allow me to go first.
This is something that is really good to take in consideration with brets. They will most likely do prayer, but in order to provoke them to test not to pray vanguarding and scouting units can be used to lure them. Atleast the bret player who I played frequently always prays, no matter what so... Prolly most of them does.
Xorn wrote: Movement - I used marched my Reavers in front of the Men at Arms, hoping to slow their advance towards me, while I whittle them down. Phoenix Guard with Noble BSB moved up slowly, staying outside of charge range. Lothern Sea Guard and Mage moved up, but I forgot to measure the 18'' I needed to cast 2 of my 3 spells. Whoops. At least they were outside of charge range!
I haven't watched the second turn yet, but I take those puny peasant bowman maimed those poor reavers. Here is a movement that probably didn't give you much at this point of battle. How do you feel what would have being better choice? Especially when you placed rest of your force out of his theoretical charge saving those reavers for oncoming turns would probably be much better most likely. Besides men at arms will have hard time to fight even your lsg. But either of those knight busses will make your lsg really really sad.

I usually wish to place my units to the theoretical charge range for the enemy. Sometimes they might attempt it and the odds are really in your favor.
Xorn wrote: Magic - My Mage was clearly rusty, and did not start the battle well. With 4 dice he managed to Miscast a Tempest. Incoming 5 dead LSG and to only 4 dead MoA thanks to amazing armour saving throws.
Did you atleast remember to try the 6+ ward given by high magic lore attribute. Probably wouldn't make difference, but always roll if you have opportunity to do so.
Xorn wrote: Bottom of Turn 1 - Bret
Movement - He decides to charge my Reavers with his MaA, I declare to flee. ...
Oh didn't see that coming. Well nevertheless it probably didn't give you as much as it would have during the second turn when you could have denied grail knight charge / kotr charge.


Xorn wrote: Top of Turn 2 - HE
This might be due chronicler picture but it seems that LSG had opportunity to charge Men at arms. That would have being really good move for couple reason, and probably would turn the battle little in your favor. First of all you both are not steadfast nor cannot claim rank bonuses inside the forest, but due better ws, rerolls you would certainly won the combat by something like. 6 making the men at arms broke. Depending on the orientation of kotr and charge range either reforming or pursuiting. Simultaneously PG backing down to make the charge little harder and give you another shooting with rbt in hope of nailing couple knights before the end. If they couldn't charge men at arms backing down with lsg would also be ok choice also.
Xorn wrote: Magic - My Mage did not explode this turn thankfully but, between dispell scrolls and dispell dice, the Damsel managed to foil all 3 attempts at spells. Curses!
Actually though what spells he had. Based on your early turn I think prolly soul quench , tempest and fury ring.
Xorn wrote: Shooting - The ECBT decided revenge was in order and blasted away at the MaA killing of 2 more of their number. The LSG did nothing of note.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but this was bad call. You should have tried to shoot either grail knights or kotr with single shot and hope for kills, without armor.
Xorn wrote: Bottom of Turn 2 - Bret

Combat - Thank Khaine for Always Strike First! Between my Noble and the PG, 2 GK and 5 KotR were slain before their lances ever touched my elves. The Razor Standard proving it's worth. In return however, the knights inflicted 7 wounds on the unit. 7 4+ ward saves, easy right? 7 dead elves, who clearly didn't witness anything at all in their destiny. Thanks to the banner the Paladin was carry I didn't get a point of Combat Res from my 1 extra rank but, after a lot of conferring over rules with 5 different people, I was allowed to keep Steadfast for the PG unit. They stayed in combat, though on a double 1. Not like the rules discussion mattered then!
The PG had weathered the lightening of the Knights, and weren't particularly afraid of the thunder that would follow.
you had 16+noble, he had only 1 rank. Thus steadfast is by normal rules, but banner of the lady gives really interesting argument ;) . To be honest for 100 point banner stripping steadfast wouldn't be too overpowered imo. This battle however was really in your favour, or against your opponent. Seer ammount of killed knights surprised me. He probably also rolled badly saves.

One question did you opponent strike your bsb? Did you play with open lists, as if you did he would known that bsb to be wearing a paper armor ;) funnily enough that bsb would be more easier to kill than PG and it should have being targeted by atleast 2 attacks (if didn't want to worry about overkilling), but I would probably commited 3 knight attack and horse attacks to the bsb (if still standing)
Xorn wrote: Top of Turn 3 - HE
Movement - The LSG decided to man up and charge the now static Knights, and made it easily. The ECBT looked on, probably grabbing snacks from the nearby house in between shots.
Good choice
Xorn wrote: Mage was free of the combat thanks to the way I had set the unit up, and used this opportunity to attempt Soul Quench ... .. On the plus, Soul Quench went off and killed 3 MaA.
Sadly illegal. Even if the wizards unit is in close combat magic missiles cannot be casted. Only one who I know with ability to cast magic missiles is Slann. You can find the rule in brb page 31 on second column the second last sentence of magic missiles.
Xorn wrote: Combat - My Noble accepted a challenge from a Grail Knight, and struck him down before the poor man could attack him back.
Cheers!
Xorn wrote: Bottom of Turn 3 - Bret
Movement - The MaA decided that their Knightly brethren were not worth their valuable time, and proceeded to turn towards the lonely ECBT on the hill.
Really really odd choice in my opinion. He just should try to kill it with lucky peasant shots and help the knights. Giving the much needed static from flank charge. They wouldn't even theoretically generate more combat res in this battle as the maximum what you could do was 2 wounds and with charge and flank that is negated and they would most likely be bound to do couple wounds to lsg.
Xorn wrote: Bottom of Turn 4 - Bret
Movement - The captain of the KotR rallied and turned back towards the field while the MaA unit marched up towards my ECBT, to ensure they would be in charge range.
Did he make snake eyes? 25% of the unit was destroyed so rallies only with insane courage ;) Was this also the main reason why you didn't pursuit, but rahter tried to save Boltthrower
Xorn wrote: Shooting - As it turns out, the crew had other ideas. Firing 6 shots and killing 3 MaA forced them to flee away from them. Not so scary now! The MaA retreated a herculean 11 inches away.
Movement - The MaA continued to flee at amazing rates, with a full pace 12 inches. The lone Knight moved towards them in an attempt to quell the panic and fear in the unit.
Movement - The MaA had only to pass a LD8 check to rally themselves, but decided that they would be going for the Olympic gold instead and proceeded to run the final 11 inches off the board. Luckily the peasant bowmen were far to impressed with the MaA unit and stood their ground as opposed to join them.
Those men at arms really have digested some speedy mushrooms just before the battle ;)
Xorn wrote: FINAL SCORE
High Elves - 938 points
Bretonnians - 623 points


A High Elf victory was called on the night, though how justified is up to the members of this fine forum.
I felt it was a fairly close game, though I think I did more damage to myself than my opponent managed to do. Maybe next time I won't get rather unlucky with 3 dice spell attempts (for those interested, it's a 2/27 or 7.41% chance to miscast on 3 dice; clearly luck was not with my Mage.)
Any feedback regarding formatting or the game itself is greatly appreciated, as this is my first attempt at a Battle Report!

Thanks for reading, and happy war-gaming!
That was close game, and from the deployment picture I was predicting a victory for the brets. I think you played good and seemed to have most of the rules covered. Additionally I liked the way you made this report., Really easy to read, good information. Only thing I would personally think would make this even better is more detailed magic and perhaps one or two irl pictures of the actual battle. I hope you will make more reports soon.
High Elves since Aug 2010: Tot /W / L / D - 100 / 75 / 23 / 2
Tomb Kings since Sep 2013:Tot / W / L / D - 31 / 18 / 12 / 1

Chronicles of Loriel's Glory and Shame
Xorn
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:29 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: 1000pt HE vs Bret - Descending back into WHFB

#3 Post by Xorn »

Thanks a lot for taking the time for such an excellent reply! It's definitely given me a few things to think about! I'll answer as best I can in the order of your questions and thoughts to make things easier to read.
I am one of the biggest fans of high magic, but I think it has better synergy in bigger games.
I definitely found that High Magic might not have been the best choice for a small game. When rolling up spells I found that there weren't many spells that I actually was wanting in such a setting. If I had the choice now I would have gone for the lore of Metal/Death, and will be doing so for my next battle. Metal will help my force deal with the very thing they struggle with the most, which is high armour saves; Death will be useful more often I suppose, given that it can kill/debuff targets of any value.
I think that bsb in such small game for us is really not worth the investment.
Now that I have played a game, I completely agree with you. 25 points is just not worthy for the rerolls on LD checks, ontop of that he is potentially worth 100 more points for my opponent in VP battles and in such a small point games that is a large swing.
In my next game I am deciding between keeping the Noble, make him my general and kit him out with Sword of Anti-Heroes, Dragon Armour and E.Shield, and swapping m Noble for a small unit of Swordsmasters to help bring the fire. They would only be a unit of 5-7 but that's still 10-15 attacks WS6/S5/I6, even if they are likely to get picked off.
How did you feel about the sea guards? Did they perform well?
Honestly they underperformed, but I feel like they never had a chance due to the two miscasts. They lost half their numbers to that alone. I picked them due to my cash limitations, I did indeed pick some up from the Island of Blood sets but most of my army is an older eBay pick up which contained a good number of Lothern Sea Guard. It was also due to a theme choice I wanted to go for, an Eataine theme; which is a city that will hold plenty of Sea Guard, Bolt Throwers and Phoenix Guard.
I can see why people don't like Sea Guard, but I think as a bunker for the mage they would have performed well. However, you can't protect a Mage that is determined to kill himself.
I don't know what kind of terrain rules you were using, but you could have deployed ECB insid
e the building.
I'll be sure to due this next time, I simply forgot that there was an option for that early on. The rust shows true! I also should have mentioned what terrain was what, which I will do in my next report for sure.
I also realize that in my report I forgot to mention about character placement at all, but you are indeed correct. I would have done the very build you have detailed, but I built the list using 8.0 rules (25% heroes limit) which was my fault for not asking ahead. This is also why my noble is badly kitted out.
How do you feel what would have being better choice?
I was intending to move them between the two Knights units, forcing them to march check and potentially make them scared to move to far forward. However, due to my initial bad placement of the Reavers, I lacked the range to take them out of charge range of either Knight unit (by an inch!), so I decided to stick them there to slow the Men at Arms.
Had I another shot, I'm not sure of what I would have done to be 100% honest. A better choice I am thinking of jsut now would have been vanguarding them up the left, past the ruins, and then Marched them past the Grail Knights. They also would have been out of the sight range of the Archers, forcing a movement to shoot them.
Did you atleast remember to try the 6+ ward given by high magic lore attribute.
I did indeed remember, which if I remember correctly saved 1 Sea Guard. The Miscast failed to wound the Mage due to a lucky 1 being rolled.
This might be due chronicler picture but it seems that LSG had opportunity to charge Men at arms.
That was my intenetion, but the Men at Arms were juuuust out sight range for the Sea Guard, which I should have mentioned in the report. It was close, but a 1/4inch is a 1/4 inch, and they were unable to charge.
You are correct for which spells, and again something I need to report on for next time.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but this was bad call.
This is why I posted this Report, for thoughts on choices made by me. So any feedback is welcome, negative or positive. I do think that it was a bad call, and had my last attempt at firing towards the Knights been successful, I would have made the better shooting option. But I didn't, and luckily it didn't cost me too much. If anything it saved the Bolt Thrower later, but that doesn't excuse it being the worse call.
One question did you opponent strike your bsb? Did you play with open lists...
We played with closed lists, for the tournament feel. My opponent was also fairly new, not quite as green as me though, so may have forgotten that was an option.
As for the number of Knights falling, that's actually statistical. Off by 1 I think, but if you have the time one can roughly work it all out. 16 attacks 3+ re-rolling -> ~14 hits wounding 3+ -> ~10 wounds on 4+/6+ save -> 4 dead knights. With noble that brings it to 5 dead Knights.
In contrast the Phoenix Guard should only have lost 4-5 men BEFORE the Knights lost members. I really found 4+ rolls impossible that day. MathHammer is obviously not applicable all the time, but I do find it useful.
Sadly illegal.
Well, knowing this would only relaly have saved me the headache the Mage caused. I'll keep that in mind for next time though.
Really really odd choice in my opinion.
He was advised to go for the guaranteed points the Bolt Thrower would give, his friend who has more experience than either my opponent or I. The thought process was, the likelyhood of the Men at Arms doing enough to change the tide of battle was rather low, so they decided that Victory Points were easier had from the Bolt Thrower.
Did he make snake eyes?
He did, the brave wee soul. My reasoning for not chasing was the swiftstride vs no-swiftstride. I wasn't likely to catch him in my head, so not worth it.
In hindsight, chasing was 100% the correct choice. Next turn I would have charged (if I didn't catch him in the first place) forcing him further towards his table edge, and potentially off the board in the next few turns for all those yummy points.
That was close game, and from the deployment picture I was predicting a victory for the brets.
Honestly I was scared of the Brets, due to the llarge amount of 2+ armour saves, and predicted a win for him as well. However the Phoenix Guard definitely managed to outshine my expectations, even if 4+ ward saves mean nothing apparently!


Thanks a tonne for the feedback and I do think I could have added more to the report. My next match will be on 02/07/2015, a final bit of prep for the doubles tournament on 03/07!
I only hesitate to take pictures due to my unpainted army! I felt bad even fielding it, since my opponent had a mostly painted army (Grail Knights excluded, they weren't even assembled.) I have started the Phoenix Guard, and have grand ideas for the paint scheme, but it's a slow slog indeed.
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Loriel
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Location: Winterfell

Re: 1000pt HE vs Bret - Descending back into WHFB

#4 Post by Loriel »

Xorn wrote:Thanks a lot for taking the time for such an excellent reply! It's definitely given me a few things to think about! I'll answer as best I can in the order of your questions and thoughts to make things easier to read.
Great! That was the intention.
Xorn wrote: I definitely found that High Magic might not have been the best choice for a small game. When rolling up spells I found that there weren't many spells that I actually was wanting in such a setting. If I had the choice now I would have gone for the lore of Metal/Death, and will be doing so for my next battle. Metal will help my force deal with the very thing they struggle with the most, which is high armour saves; Death will be useful more often I suppose, given that it can kill/debuff targets of any value
- Death is solid choice always.
- Metal against brets / armoury empire can be game changing, can be almost useless against some armies such as skaven / orcs / wood elves. So if you know what armies enters the tournament ->
- lore of lights shems burning gaze upgraded version offers a way around armor also. Pha's protection is really good spell, not to mention banishment.
- lore of life is really good lore also. Having access to lore attribute that heals can save character lives. earthblood will be really welcome for white lions / swordmasters and flesh to stone... well just beatifull
- Lore of beast, wyssan is always solid choice. Additionally transformation can really turn the tide of battle.
- Lore of heavens, high str magic missiles and good area control spells. harmonic convergence is something that our gw wielding infantry and arrow shooting dudes love
- Lore of shadows, miasma is top spells, perhaps not in small games unless opponent really likes bigger units. If you like to use multiple characters smoke and mirror can save life of one and conserve much needed points.
- Lore of fire, eventhough generally considered low tier lore in smaller games fire is actually potential. fireball has answer to lower / higher winds of magic. fire has good range that allows destroying enemies from longer distances.
- Lore of undeath (i haven't played with it ever) but in smaller games the effect of extra 100 - 200 point unit that doesn't yield victory points will be much more significant than in bigger games where it serves more as speedbumping and redirecting purpose.
- lore of high magic. As I said this is my favorite lore and I think that this lore needs to be used in great synergy with the rest of the army. I actually wrote somekind of guide how I use it http://45.40.135.47/~ulthuan/forum/view ... 66&t=68738 incase you are interested to see.

I personally like to use "tie breaking type spells", like miasma / hand of glory etc. High Elves are really good fighting in close combats and spells that helps them to survive better, strike harder outweights spells that simple destroys enemy forces. The problem for me isn't the fact that elves doesn't deal damage and kill bigger threats, but that they lack bodies to sustain prolonged battles.
Xorn wrote: In my next game I am deciding between keeping the Noble, make him my general and kit him out with Sword of Anti-Heroes, Dragon Armour and E.Shield, and swapping m Noble for a small unit of Swordsmasters to help bring the fire. They would only be a unit of 5-7 but that's still 10-15 attacks WS6/S5/I6, even if they are likely to get picked off.
If I could advice you small unit of swordmasters vs. foot combat noble, no question which will give you better result on average. Think about adding more phoenix guard to mixture. All in all any combat orientated fighter should be mounted on steed and inside silver helm bus / dragon princes, or be on monsters.

Other very interesting choice for noble builds is great eagle since it gives the noble t4 and +1 wounds additionally to superior mobility. Kitting him with charmed shield / crown / lion cloak, starlance he will be niche little dart that cannons / shooting will have hard time killing before it unleashes his payload. Ideal for striking warmachines on early turns and mid game make rear / flank charges, or assasinate characters. The times I have used noble eagle they have always performed rather well.

In smaller games I think only character choice to be made is mage. And as said before loremaster is really ideal character in 1000 - 1600 games especially with the 50 % allowance. book of hoeth and talisman of preservation is solid choices for him.
High Elves since Aug 2010: Tot /W / L / D - 100 / 75 / 23 / 2
Tomb Kings since Sep 2013:Tot / W / L / D - 31 / 18 / 12 / 1

Chronicles of Loriel's Glory and Shame
Lucius77
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Re: 1000pt HE vs Bret - Descending back into WHFB

#5 Post by Lucius77 »

Hi Xorn,

I have been a long time lurker (let say 6+ years), avidly reading the insights from Swordmaster, Curu, Ptolemy and many of the other stars of Ulthuan.net, yet I never felt the need to sign up and post.

Today that changed.

Your humour tickled my funny bone and has inspired me to sign up and thank you for such a report. Hopefully you will continue to keep post your escapades and bring joy to a my dreary days at work!

Kind Regards

L
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