HE MSU - 2500 vs double Wyvern! - a rematch

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Greetings!

My "regular" sparring partner, Eastern Barbarian (known was wardancer on warhammer.org.uk) is preparing his O&G army for the upcoming tournament and wanted to test yet another of his unorthodox armies. This time he lined up some Orcs and Goblins but with double Wyvern riders! We played with closed lists so I didn't know about his magic items and the list below is the one I have obtained after the game. Bear that in mind for the reminder of the report! The tournament he is going to attend is using Swedish composition too. In addition, there is no mysterious terrain. His army list with details was as follows:

Orcs & Goblins - Army List

Warboss, Shield, Spear, Wyvern, Talisman of Preservation, Dragonbane Gem, The Other Trickster Shard - General
Warboss, Spear, Wyvern, Charmed Shield
Nigh goblin BSB, Light Armour, Shield
Orc big boss, Dragonhelm, Spear, Shield, Boar
Goblin big boss, Spear, Light Armour, Shield, Wolf

5 Wolf riders, bows, spears, shields
5 Wolf riders, bows, spears, shields
40 night goblins, Full Command, Netters, 2 Fanatics
42 night goblins, Full Command, Netters, 2 Fanatics
Wolf chariot
Wolf chariot
Wolf chariot

Spear chukka
8 Trolls

Doom diver
Doom diver
Arachanrok
Mangler
Mangler

Orcs and Goblins with no magic might sound like a crazy idea but the tools that are in that force are good enough to smash many opponents. It is a very fast list with quite good support of war machines (super accurate doom divers) and nasty units in the form of manglers and fanatics that can mess up everybody's movement and prevent crucial charges. Let's go through the list with more details:

Wyver riders - they are not as heavily protected as they could have been but the fact there are two of them makes up for it. Very fast, the general provide 18" inspiring presence, terror causing monsters, deadly against any infantry due to thunder stomps in addition to all the attacks from the warbosses and wyverns. The chance to fight against them would be to wound them with shooting and magic and try to use high strength attacks to kill the monsters first and then to destroy the warbosses. But that is possible only if they fight as isolated units which is hard to do against flying individuals. To catch them is one of the challenges. The good thing, however, is that they need to be in combat in order to win the day for O&G.

NG BSB - one role for him is to wave his flag for nearby units. He would be hiding among night goblins so getting to him is a problem (fanatics) but once in combat (even despite netters) he is at danger. Not the priority however.

Orc big boss - no boar boyz suggests he is here to babysit trolls (also protection from fire based attacks helps them a little as he can be allocated some hits from fireballs and such). Can charge on his own against some small units or annoying eagles if there is a need. A good and cheap addition.

Goblin big boss - fast cavalry on his own, can vanguard and be a problem all by himself, especially for war machines. Another nice and cheap addition, also quite expendable if the situation arises (due to speed and small frontage he can sneak in between the units much easier). Can be dealt with by shooting or in combat anyway and if possible quick so he is not blocking crucial units.

Wolf Riders - very good fast cavalry although easy to panic. Their ridiculous 4+ armor save makes them quite resilient to S3 shooting but as I have mentioned, any panic check and they may flee. Although this time under the stern eye of the warboss on wyvern they might be moved further forward and still behave. Shooting or combat (reavers, eagles) is the way to deal with them. Again, the units that is better to eliminate fast to have clear field for movement.

Night Goblins - usually their role is to deliver fanatics but in here they also provide useful rank bonus, break steadfast and netters can also be very annoying for many units. Can be dangerous if attacking together with hard hitters of the army.

Wolf chariots - excellent support units. Their long charge range and impact hits will be a problem for small infantry units. Even a single chariot has a potential to cripple any of my units. If 2 or 3 combine their efforts they can smash through any single unit in my army. Fortunately, they are very fragile as for chariots with only 3 wounds each. A small fireball or some shooting can destroy them quickly.

Spear Chukka - nice addition, very annoying too as I would need to move carefully with cavalry so that I don't expose the flank. It may potentially slow down the army.

Trolls - one of the 4 hard hitters of the army (2 wyverns + Arachnarok). Very resilient due to regeneration but vulnerable if that is removed so it would be crucial to provide some flaming attacks. Fortunately, I have some supply of those. Sisters, magic missiles or dragon princes with Banner of Eternal Flame can be very helpful here. As always, the problem will be in isolating them and not allowing them to get into combat together with other regiments.

Doom Divers - one of the most hated "war machines" in the game. Can be devastating against any cavalry unit, not only the small ones. Their ability to correct the scattering is huge and often results in hitting the target no matter what. Need to be destroyed as soon as possible.

Arachnarok - With 8 wounds and 8 attacks on his own + 8 attacks from the crew and t-stomps this is a real beast in close combat. It is possible to wound it and eventually bring it down but it is going to take time and requires focused efforts. The power of that model lies in the fact that even wounded it does not lose anything from its offensive potential and as such needs to be killed outright or it is going to inflict a lot of damage.

Manglers - another must-kill things in the O&G army. One cannot flee from their random movement. They are hard to destroy by regular shooting so magic missiles can be very helpful here. However, it is really better to land on them with any unit to prevent their rampage.

The main problem with O&G army is that although each element is possible to be dealt with it is very hard to do so when there are so many of them and they all look like a priority. For me Manglers are number one, then doom divers if I can get to them. The rest is a danger that can be delayed or contained to some degree and when the opportunity arises, can be eliminated. But I was under no impression I can do it without suffering significant casualties. To fight this army I brought my standard MSU but with a few minor changes:

Outcasts - Army List

Larry the Loremaster, Book of Hoeth, Dragon Helm, Talisman of Endurance
Bob the BSB, Dragon Armor, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Shield of the Merwyrm
Nasher the Noble - Dragon Armor, Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Luckstone, Ogre Blade

18 Archers, Full Command
15 Sea Guard, Full Command
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Musician, Spears, Bows
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Musician, Spears, Bows

5 Dragon Princes, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame
5 Dragon Princes, Musician
10 Swordmasters, Bladelord, Musician
10 Swordmasters, Bladelord, Musician
10 White Lions, Musician, Standard of Discipline
10 White Lions, Musician, Gleaming Pennant

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
Great Eagle, Swiftsense
2 Great Eagles, Swiftsense
5 Sisters of Avelorn

2500 instead of 2400 allowed me to include missing musicians. I have also kept only one of the mounted nobles and changed his equipment slightly for something that looks more flexible to me. +2S and ASF no matter when is good option in my opinion. 1+ armor save with Dragon Armor is also very good protection. I chose Luckstone this time but there is of course option to add some other items for 5 points.

The points I saved I decided to use for something I haven't seen anyone doing so far. Unit of eagles and with Swiftsense upgrade too. My idea for that unit is that it offers some fast war machine hunters, have -1 to hit for being skirmishers so can be quite intact when finally hitting the crew but can also be a little more of a problem if attacking from the flank. The re-rolls can be also very valuable in the case of assassination missions. Last but not least, as T4, 3W skirmishers they can provide some protection for small units behind them. Or can use them as a shield when attacking some shooters and forcing stand and shoot at heavy penalties.

Against this particular enemy I didn't predict many opportunities for that formation yet but it was also a good test for me. If I can make the unit work against less than ideal opponent then I can do so even better when circumstances are more favorable.

Deployment


Deployment of the armies


Vanguard moves

Edit: I believe I made a mistake and switched the positions of the Wyvern riders. Please, note, that W - Warboss General, G - just Warboss. Apologies for the confusion!

Orcs and Goblins deployed in the weighted flank formation. Elves reacted by deploying elite infantry at the very edge to buy more time, archers forward to occupy the building and cavalry in front to hopefully win the war with wolf riders and chariots and get to the war machines behind.

Surprisingly, the Elves won the roll off and they had the first turn!

Outcasts - Turn 1


Elven opening salvo!

Elves didn't waste time and seized the initiative. However, they moved with care as they were very well aware of potential counter attack from all these chariots, manglers etc. which hit with such an impact that no amount of training can help to strike before them. Because of that several units moved only to cover the potential passages and block them so the enemy cannot sneak in between.

The honor to begin the onslaught belonged to the army general and Larry the Loremaster felt it is going to be his day. Winds of magic blew strong and he harnessed them to his will smoothly. His magic missiles destroyed the Mangler, spirit leach drained life from the goblin chariot crew and he even managed to send blizzard of ice shards on doom diver crew!

Following the example of their general, the Elves aimed carefully and killed unusually brave goblin boss who decided to be heroic and moved on his own. Nearby Wolf Riders also suffered from the elven arrows and only thanks to shields some of them managed to survive. However, cowardly creatures run towards the safety of the forest, not knowing their action was going to distracts the trolls hiding in it.

The Warboss face turned into darker shade of green but he decided to direct his fury against some worthy foe instead.

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 1


Orcs and Goblins march forward!

Ancient Orc tactician, Grunt-Tzu, who roamed the lands of Cathay and thought different tribes there on Art of Waaaagh! said that the best form of defense is offense and Warboss leading this particular army was more than happy to put this theory into practice.

Entire army moved forward at a double. Goblins with BSB decided to show'em all that they are good fighters too (amazing what a little bit of mushrooms can do to self-esteem level!) and run at a double-double! On the other flank goblin charioteers charged reckless Reavers who elected to hold due to fact that retreat path was blocked by the building. Elves braced for impact and three of the light cavalry were trampled to death. However, encouragements shouted by the Loremaster helped them hold for a little bit longer!

Only war machine crews disappointed, with one doom diver crew loading dummy diver instead, the other aimed totally wrong so that the diver hit the house instead of the Dragon Princes he wanted to smash and spear chukka missing completely.

Outcasts - Turn 2


Exchange of blows continues

Elves didn't stop hitting their enemy in order to prevent it from getting back to the fight after initial blow. Reavers on the Western flank carefully maneuvered around the wyvern and stayed out of range of the Night goblin fanatics. Archers swift reformed into 3 columns and moved pass the wolf riders in order to find shelter in the nearby house. They did it so quick that managed to surprise Mangler and shot at it from the windows and balconies and pinned its twitching body to the ground.

What is more, that abrupt appearance made both Night Goblin units nervous and they could not contain maniac among their ranks any longer. Those on the left flank tried to reach great eagles but were not thrown far enough. Those on the right hit each other on their way towards Elven heavy cavalry.

On the Eastern flank sea guard came to the rescue of the reavers and destroyed goblin chariot while Dragon Princes tempted the last of the carts to charge through the forest.

Larry the Loremaster, warmed up by the previous display of magic was in a good mood. He barraged enemy with more spells and spirit leach went through with huge spider as a target. The beast twisted its huge body and half of the crew were thrown away and trampled while Arachnarok tried to avoid invisible enemy that was hurting it.

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 2


Orcs and Goblins keep trying to fight back!

Orcs, Goblins, Trolls and all other creatures were eager to get to the close combat with fey Elves. Warboss on Wyvern swooped down and destroyed Eagle Claw so that it was not a danger to him or his twin who was the army General. Trolls and Wolf Riders destroyed reavers who sacrificed themselves to slow down the enemy. Finally, Arachnarok, mad due to injuries, stormed the house with Archers and many Elves perished but they managed to push the monster back. For a while.

On the East last chariot sped through the forest expertly and hit the Dragon Princes hard. But dragon armor deflected all the potentially deadly hits and what's more, the knights cut one of the crew members of the goblin chariot. The rest, horrified by such display of resilience, fled with Elven knights in hot pursuit.

Doom Divers did even worse than before. Both misfired, one exploded and the other was so broken that it would take significant amount of time to fix it.

Outcasts - Turn 3


Outcasts redress their ranks and present uniform formation once again

The Archers moved out of the house, not wanting to confront the monster again but in doing so they moved right into the claws of the Warboss General and his pet Wyvern. Larry the Loremaster tried to help and yet another barrage of spells was directed at the enemy. He succeeded in finishing Arachnarok and while that achievement was cheered by his warriors, it didn't change the poor position of the Archers.

Dragon Princes caught fleeing chariot and reformed to face doom diver crew, busy with repairs and totally oblivious to the incoming doom.

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 3


Orcs and Goblins keep marching towards elusive enemy

Warboss General finally had some chance to kill some enemy, even if they were lowly archers. He charged with all his might and a lone figure stepped out of the ranks of the Elves. Warboss accepted the challenge and quickly dispatched his brave but foolish foe. The rest of the unit held fast to buy more time for their companions.

Orc Big Boss also felt impatient and spurred his mount to charge few Sisters of Avelorn but his boar was still munching on some chestnuts and was not happy to break and charge. As a result the might charge turned into throttle and big, hairy pig was more than happy to find some mud on the way to dive in. To cover his embarrassment orc boss urged his trolls to move in front of him and hide him from the eyes of quite unforgiving warbosses.

Outcasts - Turn 4


Elves secure the flank

Elves continue their attack on the flank, where Dragon Princes easily kill doom diver crew. Two reavers push hard too but single remaining goblin refuses to flee! Sea Guard charges the goblins but their netters stop Elves in their tracks and they barely hold.

Brave archers are destroyed utterly by the Warboos General and that puts sea guard into even more difficult position.

On the opposite flank, solitary Sisters shot down two wolf riders and prepare to be attacked by another pack.

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 4


Edit: some inaccuracies in the diagram. Wolfs charge Sisters, NG2 move a little forward too, Dragon Princes overruned the previous turn. Again, my apologies.

Warboss general charges sea guard. Their captain tries to challenge but lowly goblin accepts. Being a goblin he cheats and throws dirt into the eyes of the elven captain and stabs him in the back when he can't see. Sea guard cannot hold against mass of goblins and rampaging wyvern and flee but the wyvern is more interested in the bodies of the fallen and it does not catch the survivors.

Outcasts - Turn 5


Cascade!

Elven cavalry set up the trap for the warboss if he decided to charge the sea guard. Elven Noble also detached himself from the unit to cover another angle and be able to help out too. Larry the Loremaster, however, drew too much of the magical power and the feedback resulted in dimensional cascade but fortunately for him, this time he was not sucked into the realms of chaos. Needless to say that his surviving bodyguards were not happy regardless.

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 5


One uncontrollable Wyvern!

Warboss general smelled the obvious trap but his pet wyvern had one of its infamous stubbornness attacks and he barely managed to flew it a little bit away from the Elves but not long enough to avoid the attack of swift elven cavalry!

Nearby goblins attacked the eagle, didn't kill it but forced to retreat and that also caused nearby sea guard to abandon their position. Goblins and Trolls moved towards the Elves but that brought them to the range of the enemy charge!

Outcasts - Turn 6


All out attack!

Both heavy cavalry attached Warboss general who refused to retreat and decided to win the battle all by himself. But elven cavalry hit hard, one unit was infused with supernatural strength courtesy of Larry the Loremaster and his magical abilities. The wounded wyvern was dead and warboss general, despite hacking left and right, could not hold and was run down in the hot pursuit.

Night Goblins with BSB were about to be engaged by Swordmasters and White Lions but the other remaining Warboss sounded the retreat as he wanted to call for more reinforcements.

After hard fight Elves carried the day!

After-battle thoughts

I was very happy with the result but I feel sorry for Easter Barbarian as he had to fight against me and bad luck. I can only imagine how hard it was to deal with the frustration. In 4 attempts to shoot with doom divers he had 3 misfires. Both chariot charges failed and not necessary because he didn't have good rolls for impact hits but because I either held or saved all the hits.

The Larry the Loremaster was on fire like never! What is interesting, however, it was not due to the Book of Hoeth that helped me significantly only last turn when I rolled double 1's for first spell and managed to re-roll one dice simply to be able to keep going. But even then it was more or less decided who is going to win the battle. I had a similar impression after the tournament too. In my opinion, BoH is mainly the item that helps to keep casting spells. Which is important for a single caster and in particular, for the Loremaster who is usually casting many low level spells. It was also quite significant when he managed to recover power dice due to death lore attribute that increased his overwhelming magic superiority even further.

Having said that I think there were a few things he could have done better. He seemed to deploy as if he had first turn guaranteed. If he but put his mangler and chariots 1" back he would have prevented that first turn magical barrage. His wolf big boss should have stayed with the wolf riders. I am also wondering if more central placement of trolls was not a better option. As using house for shielding Arachnarok and wyverns was very good option. It was probably hard to predict that Archers could trigger all fanatics (and very unlucky for them to kill themselves) but I guess the lesson for the future is to move them in a way that prevents that situation by staying away from the buildings.

There were a few things I was not happy with either. I think I made mistakes with reavers on both flanks. While these on the left managed to slow down Trolls, I didn't accomplish the main goal, i.e. getting to the doom diver. Second unit was badly positioned and I held against chariot charge only because flee would carry them through the building and beyond the table.

I baited the chariot with DP but didn't position sea guard or reavers to counter charge and I was lucky they actually won the combat even despite getting so many impact hits!

I had no good idea on how to use unit of eagles either. I didn't want them to fly over to be sacrificed and the threat of manglers and fanatics was too great to move them far. I guess I should have kept them in reserves to have the chance to pass over the enemy and attack the warmachines. I am aware though that there were not many good targets for them.

Also mounted noble was not in combat at all. I considered attacking Arachnarok with him alone but decided against it as it still had 4 wounds left and I might lose the noble to so many S5 attacks regardless. Or maybe I was too cautious?

I am of course very happy with the victory and I think many things work much better than I expected (magic in particular) so the description of mistakes above are just to try and come up with better moves next time!

I hope you enjoyed the report and thanks for reading!

Cheers!

[Hinge]

SM-

Your brother is a man after my own heart . I do think his list could use a NG L2 Shaman with Scroll and ruby ring. It provides something to do on his magic phase. Also, Sneaky Stabin is ace with wyverns as you can expect to get into flanks.

I think the Arock can also be a problem for you. So many attacks and it is one of the fastest ground based monsters in the game. While easy to wound, it can be tough to take down.

And yes, I own 2 painted Wyverns and an Arock and love running this style list. It forces you away from the standard O&G gunline style of play.

As far as the match. It looks like the Arock will use the building as screen, either from shooting or for the DPs, then charge over it. People tend to forget it can do it. The Archers may need an early flee. Disposing of Mangler 2 will cause some panic issues. I think the Gob Boss should have started in one of the Wolf Rider units and depend on 18” IP to make first round panic, then spilt.

Looks to be an interesting match

Hinge

[Iluvatar]

Looks like a great game indeed! Like always against your brother.
No magic, double Wyvern and almost full goblins (squigs and trolls don't count!) is very interesting to see. And it's a nice use of chariots and Mangler 2 to try to deny you a fast attack with DPs.
I'm looking forward to this report, as always with yours!

[Jimmy]

Hey SM

I really do like the double wyvern list and I’ve never seen it before, great way to put a spin on the army list, will be keen to see what it can do to upset the likes of the MSU especially with the elements that can really put the hurt on you not limited to chariots, manglers and warmachines!

Interestingly enough however the BSB is vulnerable to spirit leech which may provide an opportunity. Also keen to see how you rock the twin eagles.

What a tease.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Hi guys!

Thanks a lot for comments! As always, they are very much appreciated. Maybe even more now as I don't have that much time to play games.

@ Hinge

Thanks! He is known for unorthodox lists and since he plays many armies he has lots of opportunities to do so. It is quite funny to see that some of his original ideas became net lists (see MSU Daemons for an example!).

I know he is still tweaking the list and wizards are on his new version. I believe he added 2 level 2's now. Will ask him for the updated version.

I wish I could play that game in real life as these monsters would look absolutely fantastic! They might also look more intimidating so maybe it is not too bad I played it over UB. As to the panic issues, I don't have the book with me, but I remember my brother mentioned something manglers might have been ignored in the same way as fanatics. Will need to check it up again.

As to other predictions I need to ask you for a little patience as I can't reveal too much without writing the report. It should be done soon, however, as I finished preparing the diagrams and should be able to write it up some time this evening.

@ Iluvatar

Thanks a lot! We do our best to provide the highest quality entertainment! Yes, the deployment was good as it allowed my brother to focus his units on one flank but I still had enough of drops to adapt. But boy, they have so many things in that army! I always feel jealous as it seems O&G can have it all!

@ Jimmy

Cheers, mate! As Iluvatar said you can count on my brother and his creativity. His armies are like no others although to be fair he is not the only one who used double Wyvern. But it is not that popular for sure. His army is fast and can soak damage well. His units can deal a lot of damage to my small regiments too. The main challenge is that there are so many units that all have "priority" painted on them!

And yes, I thought I might try to get his BSB with spirit leach

As to eagles I was even considering a unit of 3. It would serve completely different role as I would not like to sacrifice almost 200 points. But it adds greatly to the speed and the options I discussed are simply great. As always it may take some time to learn how to use them properly.

Thanks again for your comments, I will do my best to finish the report asap.

Cheers!

[Ferny]

Oh boy, I'm looking forward to this one. I sort of feel your cavalry offer some great threat projections, but I don't know how you'd best use that given the similar projections he has. I also think champions are gonna be winners here, presenting the hardest challenge to your opponents wyrverns in a way.

As you say, each individual element of his list looks perfectly beatable, but together they look like a big, green headache.

Really looking forward to how you cope - whatever you do I'll learn from it

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Thanks Ferny! I have just finished the report! I hope you are going to find it interesting!

Cheers!

[Ferny]

Well congrats on the win. I'll be honest, I didn't fancy your chances from the get-go.

So some obvious observations, echoing your own:
1) your magic worked wonders. I know dice are important here, but spell prioritisation, planning to be in range during your movement phase, and power dice management are also key, so there's no small amount of skill to getting a good magic game off too. Without wanting to take away from that, I bet it felt good to have the +2 jump with the loremaster, rather than what I usually find of being at -2 disadvantage . If you remember, do you know if your +2 was critical? I think his list would have been better if he'd squeezed a wizard in (L4 for preference, but at least a Lv2 caddy if lord points are all sunk into monsters). I don't know O&G well enough to suggest where to trim, but I suspect it's doable.
2) you seem to have a knack for destroying war machines. I don't know quite how you do it - super abundance of cavalry, perfect positioning, good charge rolls, (some luck?), but they always seem to be a weak chink in the armour against you. I think you were a bit lucky with their rolls against you, but bravo on dealing with them again .
3) An excellent move with the archers to draw out the night goblins. Also rather excellent to challenge the wyrvern for a turn. Man of the match award I think (barring Larry).
4) I'm still not seeing a role for eagle units. I can see value in giving them ASF (probably not AP), but I'd still go single units. In this game they could have been mangler or fanatic fodder (not that you needed it as it turns out) or chariot bait etc. As it was I don't think they did much. And what could they do? Now, if nobles could join them...

Some questions:
1) Do you think he was too aggressive with his vanguards? I always feel my reavers are very vulnerable to small arms fire and am wary of pushing them forwards in this type of match up. They're obvious targets and unsupported. Maybe he thought he'd get first turn, but what do you think they aim to achieve? FWIW I think you dealt with them well, but perhaps predictably so?
2) Were your shooting rolls particularly good or kinda average? They look super good throughout, but maybe elf shooting against suitable opponents just is that good!
3) Turn 3 - did the hill obscure LoS from the wolf riders to your sisters? I'd have expected them to eat you for breakfast there (also, damn their no musician - swift reform and you'd have shot their wargy asses back to Isengard!)
4) What were you thinking when you held with your DPs vs the chariot? Did you think he'd fail range? Or fluff lots of DT tests? Or simply not do enough damage to get through your armour? I love DPs, but I love their speed and their strength on the charge - once they're in a grind they lack oomph, and the best you could hope for here is a grind I think - as it was you got much, much better than that. But on the face of it I think it was an odd call?
5) When you moved the archers out of the house to avoid fighting the arachnarok, could you have moved them out backwards to avoid fighting the wyrvern too? Or did you want to fight it and hold it up?
6) Any idea why he was so cautious with the Wyvern labelled W? The G one made it right up the board...
7) Do you think it was a mistake for him to focus on your left flank so heavily? He beat it thoroughly, but you destroyed his right flank, so you're quits. But all that time his Arak and W wyrvern aren't getting truly stuck in. I think, given his fast (though awkwardly different speeds), mostly combat army, he should have wanted to get stuck in to your harder units quicker. Can you imagine if T1 they'd both pushed aggressively, maybe to the left lee of the house, and T2 they'd both headed towards your WL2? Sure, you'd get shooting and magic at them, and DP1 would reposition to face presumably, but if they survived the attention they'd soon start thunderstomping through your backline infantry I think?

Great to see your classic redrawing of the battleline! I might have more questions later but its bedtime now . Gratz on the win though - three thunderstompers (inc two flyers) is I think a very hard match up - I know I'd have been scared!

[Jimmy]

Hey SM

Turn 1 – A great show of things to come as Larry get’s busy making his presence known! That was certainly a bit brave for the Goblin Boss to wander out so far on his own. Along with the shooting phase it’s probably one of the most memorable opening turns in terms of damage that you’ve had in a long time.

Was there no option to flee at all with the Reavers leaving the chariot exposed?

Turn 2 – Another great result from shooting and magic in unison. What was the plan with ER1 here? Just to tie up trolls etc?

Rules question – could the Arachnarok move completely over the building with an enemy unit inside of it?

So far it feels like the enemy just hasn’t inflicted enough damage in comparison to you and without the added magic pressure it’s one less element you have to worry about which I feel can be probably the most dangerous to an MSU army.

Turn 3 – I think the Archers were going to die anyway! The Spider is finally taken out of the game, great job. Spirit Leech again? Did you remember the lore attribute?

Champion certainly paid for itself it seems by tying the Wyvern boss up for a turn. What was the plan here for them?

Turn 5 – I was sitting here thinking Larry was getting a bit to comfortable with magic so something had to go wrong! Normally however you challenge yourself by making it turn 1 or 2 so most impressive mate for holding out so long!! 

Well done on the victory, it was a good battle.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Hi guys!

Thanks a lot for such detailed comments! It is great to know that the report generated so much interest that it resulted in numerous comments and observations!

@ Ferny

Well, let's just say I am used to be underdog

Magic - thanks! I didn't think I did anything special in particular but maybe it is due to the fact I have been using the Loremaster for some time and it feels more natural now, especially when winds of magic are strong. I didn't feel that +2 was such a huge advantage as the main reason I had good magic phases was the power dice to dispel dice ratio. If you get twice as many power dice then you are spoiled for choice and Loremaster is well equipped for that. It is very hard to make the priority. What also helped was the fact I got good rolls for death lore attribute. I rarely used BoH to improve the result. As a rule I never re-rolled a dice if I got a 6 on a initial roll.

Of course having +2 to dispel would always help. But in general it was more about making hard decision as to what to dispel when the winds were clearly in my favor. Adding wizards (and my brother did add them) would matter more in his magic phase, as some of the spells are actually very good and annoying!

War Machines - hm, I really felt as if these particular war machines just didn't work. Sure, I try to get them asap as my small units are very vulnerable to them. But that is also the reason why I wanted to include the unit of eagles as I believe they will prove very good at hunting them down.

Archers - my initial plan was simply to occupy the building and disrupt the advance of the enemy. If left unchecked they can pop out at the rear of the enemy formation and threaten the foe with some support charges from flank/rear. Or even move towards the war machines if the fast units were bogged down.

I didn't know both units are going to be in range when I entered the building as I thought only the one on the left flank is. But I was very happy it triggered them and that they were so kind to kill themselves shortly after.

The challenge is always the option and it is that particular situation why I have them in Archers and Sea Guard. So yes, they took one for the team but I am glad I used them in a more active way than usual.

Units of Eagles - I obviously cannot provide evidence for their usefulness yet but I think I will find the way. You actually suggested some good role and if were are going to have a rematch I will try to use them as chariot hunters. They are a little faster so they can try to intercept the goblins. With 4 S4 attacks with ASF and WS5 they are going to inflict some damage while T4 will prove helpful against any attacks back.

It will be tricky to use them in some spectacular way but I have faith in them as they provide more speed and interesting but not direct options to influence the game. I was in a similar position with reavers long time ago when I had just one unit and everybody told me they are useless. They are not

Ok, let's try to answer your questions now.

I think his vanguard moves showed that he counted on having first turn too much. If he succeed he would move them all behind my lines, harass and force the shooters to aim at them instead of wyverns or trolls for example. I think he is not going to do it again unless the vanguard move is going to help him move in the cover at the same time.

The shooting can be strong even with average rolls. Sometimes you achieve the effect by focusing fire on the right targets. In this particular case I had good odds. For example, Eagle Claw was shooting with multiple, hitting on 3+ and wounding on 4+ so getting two wounds on goblin boss on a wolf was not that unlikely. Shooting Mangler with 18 Archers required 5+ to hit and 5+ to wound so I guess I was lucky this time to get 3 wounds but again it was not that unlikely either.

However, these were single targets with 2-3 wounds so that is why it looked so spectacular.

Yes, that was the case with Sisters. They also missed with their bows completely and disappointed in close combat.

It was a gamble with DP's. It is always unnerving for the opponent to charge with the chariot through the forest. And by putting them there I also applied more pressure. Basically, it was charge or be charged for goblin chariot. I of course risked a lot. I expected to lose 2-3 of them so I was looking at -3 or -4CR before I attacked and there was no guarantee I could have wounded them to tip the scales. I should have also positioned other units to counter attack.

I made a mistake with the archers, I could have moved them out but in different formation so that Wyvern would not see them but I didn't check and paid for it. The challenge was simply to buy more time.

W - wyvern was his general so I presume he wanted him to hold the line with his 18" inspiring presence and stay in the middle of the formation. When he lost the spider it looked bad for him as trolls were too far to help and with 2 wyverns alone he could have charge my small elite infantry units but would probably suffer in the process. For example, I would have held with Lions, who would have died anyway and countered with Sowrdmasters to kill the Wyvern. Then he would be in trouble with pedestrian Warboss without support and not much armor to help.

Yes, I think he leaned too much towards that flank. I think he should have put trolls in the center and move forward with wyverns and spider using the building as protection. It was unlucky to get fleeing wolfs in the way of trolls but that also showed why they should be in the middle. If that happened there they would have been able to attack anyway.

If he had T1 as he planned the game would have been harder for me of course. I deployed with that in mind but having combat units storming towards me and artillery shooting at the same time was not an optimistic scenario. I guess I have to come up with suitable counter in the case we are going to play the rematch!

Thanks again for your comments and I hope the sound night sleep will add some more in the morning!

@ Jimmy

Thanks so much for your feedback! As always I can count on you and expect that you are going to read the report carefully and add valuable observations! Cheers, mate!

I totally agree, I believe it might have been the best performance by Larry in his whole career!

The mistake with reavers was really easy to avoid but I simply positioned them badly. In that situation the fleeing path was towards the building right behind them. That led through it, through the eagle and there was no place to position them behind. If I fled they would have been gone for good. So I chose to hold and try to wound the chariot for the counter to have it easier to kill it. Sea Guard could shoot at it for example.

T2 and another confusion with reavers showing how hard it may be to actually use fast cavalry well. I had to take into account a few things. First, I didn't want to move towards NG and to release fanatics. I also had to avoid the wyvern and it seemed that retreat behind the hill was bad option. In moving forward I was again limited as there was no way I could have avoided the trolls. I think there was a way to do it though and I missed the opportunity. I could move them so they were visible to trolls but not to wolf riders. So that wolf riders would have blocked the trolls again. Big boss could charge alone but that was far better.

Sacrificing reavers to slow the trolls down was not that bad option either but the fact that I miss the above mentioned opportunity makes me feel bad as I haven't used them in the best way possible.

Yes! This time I remembered the lore attribute and that added further to the frustration of my brother! Larry was on fire this game!

As I have told Ferny, I simply made a mistake by not double checking the angles. It looked during the game that they are safe but were not. Different formation would have solved the problem. I also think I was too focused on the opportunity to move out and shoot at the wolf riders and that was the reason why I was careless.

Man, that Cascade! Every time I roll double 6 I wish I had my earthing rod back! And I am still considering taking it back!

Cheers!

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Greetings!

Wardancer aka Estern Barbarian (for UB users) was definitely not happy with the result of the first game and since he needed more practice before the upcoming tournament we managed to schedule another game. He made some army list adjustments while keeping 2 Wyvern theme:

Orcs & Goblins - Army List

Warboss, Spear, Wyvern, Talisman of Preservation, Dragonhelm - General
Warboss, Spear, Wyvern, Charmed Shield
Nigh goblin BSB, Light Armour, Shield
Orc Shaman, Dragonbane Gem, level 2, Boar - Big Waaagh!
Orc Shaman, level 2, Dispel Scroll - Big Waaagh!

5 Wolf riders, bows, spears, shields
5 Wolf riders, bows, spears, shields
27 Big Uns, Shields, Extra Weapons, Full Command
42 night goblins, Full Command, Netters, 2 Fanatics
Wolf chariot
Wolf chariot

7 Trolls

Doom diver
Rock Lobba
Arachanrok
Mangler
Mangler

This time I had 2 level 2 orc shamen to deal with. That means they are going to have as many spells as level 4, but the risk of losing one does not cripple magical abilities of the army. +2 to dispel is always handy. However, I decided their main impact will be offensive. Big Waagh! has some nasty spells in its list with the dreaded Foot of Gork in particular.

One unit of Night Goblins was gone and Big Uns stepped in. That is another change that improved offensive abilities of the army. S5 attacks in the first round, with quite a number of these due to extra weapon mean trouble for my small units. Whatever attacks them is going to be bloodied for sure. In order to take them out I need proper combined charges, with the aid of buffs and hexes for good measure.

I was happy to see only one doom diver but rock lobba can hurt my small units too. So I am not sure if that is going to be that much better. Obviously rock lobba will target infantry more often but it still has a good damaging potential.

Other than that all the dangers of the list I faced before remain and the questions were:

1. Can wardancer devise a plan to beat me this time?
2. Can I come up with a counter and adapt quicker to the new situation?

Deployment


Deployment of the armies


Vanguard moves

I must admit I came up with a few options and had to quickly decide what to choose. I considered deploying with refused flank and rolling the left flank. The advantage was that I could move fast units quickly and overwhelm light troops of the enemy there. But that would have left the hill completely vulnerable.

On the other hand I wanted some units on the right flank simply to threaten the advance of the green horde and be able to perform classic double pincer maneuver. I also know that taking fight to the enemy can be the best defense and I could not allow the war machines to be unoccupied, even if there were only 2 of them.

That is why I chose the latter option.

Orc Shaman on Boar got: Fists of Gork, Ere We Go!
Orc Shaman on Foot: Brain Bursta, Foot of Gork

This time Orcs and Goblins won the roll off and had the first turn!

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 1



Orcs and Goblins advance through the center with the Arachanrok leading the way. On the left flank wolven tribes guarded the lonely doom diver. While on the right flank trolls went stupid despite desperate attempts of goblin bsb to wave his tattered banner to get their attention. Big Uns didn't enter the forest much not wanting to disrupt their formation and be hunted down by vengeful dragon princes.

While one shaman was busy talking sense to dump trolls another one enjoyed the might of winds of magic. His prayers were heard and huge green foot stomped elven warriors into oblivion. First White Lions and then Swordmasters suffered horrendous casualties. However, due to irresistible force with which the spell was cast it also went wrong and the foot appeared on top of warboss riding wyvern but fails to wound them. The resulting explosion, however, wounds shaman, warboss and his pet wyvern.

After such an impressive spell casting the crews of the war machines stood in awe and their own shooting was miserable in comparison.

Outcasts - Turn 1


Elves try to clear the way

One of the great eagles sacrificed itself and landed on top of the Mangler Squig destroying it by also being killed in the process. Pair of eagles feigned the fly over the forest that resulted in the release of the fanatics. One of the lunatics hit the forest and killed itself, the other was still spinning around.

Larry the Loremaster tried to Spirit Leach the chariot but this attempt was scrolled. Burning gaze was dispelled and final attempt to cast a fire ball simply failed.

Sea Guard aimed at wolf riders, got two of them and the rest of the pack fled but the chariot felt brave and didn't panic at all. Archers aimed at another wolves but killed only one. Only a single wound was also inflicted on the chariot by the eagle claw. Due to the fact that trolls were still out of range Sisters aimed at the general but could not penetrate the thick hide of the Wyvern.

Not quite a good start for the Elves.

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 2


Counter charges

Spotting the opportunity, the chariot charged reavers who had to hold but died to an Elf. The main body of the army kept up the pace and Arachnarok spearheaded the advance.

While magic was stopped the shooters did better. Doom Diver hit Dragon Princes and the impact and death of two knights spooked the horses and remaining two had to retreat. Goblins on the back of the Arachanrok shot at the nearby Sisters but surprisingly their light armor saved some of them!

The situation didn't look good for Elves, with advance on the left flank pushed back, staggered formation and delayed right flank too.

Outcasts - Turn 2


Charge of the Dragon Princes

Dragon Princes led by the Noble charge Trolls. The rest of the army tries to rearrange the formation despite heavy losses. Larry the Loremaster aids attacking knights and powerful hexes are cast on Trolls. The elven heavy cavalry kills two monsters while the noble cuts down the shaman. Trolls puke back at them and corrosive acids kill three dragon princes and steadfast trolls don't move anywhere.

Larry the Loremaster then focuses on chariots. One is spirit leached and the other is engulfed in flames but somehow survives! (Edit: I got 9 hits but only 2 wounds!). The shooters need to finish the job for him.

Archers, Sisters and Eagle Claw all target Arachnarok and wound it 3 times!

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 3


Orcs and Goblins push through the center!

Arachnarok charges few sisters before the goblins behind them do it (Edit: failed animosity test). Wyvern twins fly close to the hill and it is obvious they are going to attack soon.

Orc Shaman attempted to cast small foot of gork but loremaster dispelled it. (Edit: Just! It was the first time when thanks to the re-roll from Book of Hoeth I got required result.)

Noble and Dragon Princes managed to kill one more troll but dragon princes died yet again due to corrosive vomit! Trolls barely lost but held their ground anyway.

Outcasts - Turn 3


Disaster on the right flank!

The units on the hill know it is their last chance to make an impact before the wyverns swoop down and all aim at arachnarok. Larry the Loremaster casts searing doom and fireball at the enormous spider and inflicts 2 more wounds all by himself. Then Sea Guard, Archers and Eagle Claw manage to shoot enough arrows to kill the beast at last!

But that success was not cheered upon for long. White Lions and Reavers aided lone hero in the combat against Trolls. Despite many high strength attacks regenerative powers of the trolls are amazing and only a singe wound is inflicted. Trolls hit back hard and no more than 3 lions survive that counter attack. Noble and Reavers are forced to flee, Lions stubbornly holding the ground to buy them time.

What is more, Reavers happen to flee through the forest and straight into Mangler and all of them die horrible death. The only consolation is that the crazy squig is no more.

Instead of break through on the right flank the Elves suffered horrendous casualties and the situation became very serious.

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 4


Orcs and Goblins dominate the right flank and attack through the center

Fleeing Noble is attacked by the Goblins (Edit: failed animosity again and again 6 on the roll!) and combination of poor flee roll and very good charge roll see the noble trampled and stabbed to death.

Warboss on Wyvern finishes Eagle Claw quickly and overruns into the flank of the nearby archers.

Doom Diver hits Dragon Princes again and two caledorian knights were destroyed before they managed to reach the enemy. Rock Lobba hit the Swordmasters and they lost 3 of their numbers.

Outcasts - Turn 4


Elves try to hit back

The situation is grim but Elves don't give up. Larry the Loremaster, however, disappoints when he fails to cast his first spell and loses concentration (Edit: I got 1,1,2 on the spirit leach and then got 2 for reroll ).

Champion of the Archers unit steps up and dies in single combat just to buy some time for the few reinforcements to arrive.

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 5


Charge of the Orc Warboss!

Orc General finally managed to charge himself too and 3 Swordmasters died while the Wyvern carried its master to the safety.

Archers put up a great fight, wound a warboss (now on single wound only) and even win combat but warboss holds.

Outcasts - Turn 5


Elves retreat

With just a few units left Elves have to withdraw in good order. The only person who can turn the tide is Larry the Loremaster but yet again he fails to cast his first spell! (Edit: Rolled 1,2,3 on spirit leach and got one from re-roll )

This time Archers can't find the weak spot in warboss armor, lose badly and flee to be caught in pursuit.

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 6


Orcs lost interest!

With no real threat to fight orc Warbosses lose interest and fly away. The rest of the army also does not move forward anymore.

Only the Orc shaman casts the foot of gork on Swordmasters and only a bladelord survives! (Edit: I had a chance to put the template on any unit of the enemy as wardancer rolled a 1 again but the foot scattered when I placed it on warboss)

The last word will belong to the Elves. Could they dish out some damage to make the defeat smaller?

Outcasts - Turn 6


Last act

Larry the Loremaster was under great pressure. He had limited amount of time to choose some spells and try to make the difference. He chose spirit leach in order to kill the wyvern and hopefully scare the warboss but despite irresistible force and dead wyvern the warboss didn't care. (Edit: I am not sure if that is really the case, is the rider required to pass panic check if the mount is slain?).

Then in the last attempt he casts a medium fireball on trolls but manages mere 3 hits and with that last act he fails to turn the tide in the end.

Orcs and Goblins carry the day and have their revenge!

After-battle thoughts

Congratulations to wardancer for great game and well deserved victory! I think he played much better than last time and despite very good magic, it was about his other decisions that made the difference.

For example, he didn't provide easy targets for shooting, kept chariots in reserve and held the left flank long enough to inflict some damage. He lost 2 chariots, wolves and doom diver for the price of reavers and dragon princes. A very good exchange especially that it took me 4 turns to clear that flank and even then it was too late anyway.

He used mangler on the right very well too. He simply prevented light cavalry to go that direction and it was only a coincidence that fleeing unit destroyed it.

His more aggressive push through the center proved to be successful too and his wyverns saw combat, decimated the enemies and survived the battle. Arachnarok was lost but it provided a cover and was an arrow and spells magnet that allowed wyverns to survive.

I only think he should have moved Big Uns where the trolls were. Trolls are faster and would still be in the range of Warboss inspiring presence so that entire line could have moved as one. But it is quite tough for me to admit that he won without Big Uns anyway!

I tried to analyze the game and see where did I make the most crucial mistakes. It is worthy noting that despite the fact that foot of gork stomped my three units it didn't destroy any of them entirely and under the rules of the tournament wardancer is going to attend they gave up 50% points. Of course the fact that they were useless after that was very important too.

I believe that the biggest mistake was with the charge of Dragon Princes and Noble against the trolls. They were fresh and I had no hope to break them on steadfast. I was too far with reavers and Lions to combine the charge and when I attacked again it was not the best option either. In the end I lost 3 units and a hero for no gain. That simply cost me the game.

If I held them in reserves, a little further back I would have achieved two goals:

1. Protected back yard against wyverns - no option for them to charge from the flank or have safe landing zones.

2. More time to weaken the trolls and be able to combine the charge of Dragon Princes, Noble and White Lions together.

As a result of that reckless and unsupported charge I not only lost 3 units and a character as immediate consequences but I also lost eagle claw, archers and Swordmasters as I could not protect them or counter charge the attacking characters either.

My last turn spells priority was poor too. What I should have done instead was to cast fireball and burning gaze at trolls, add whatever shooting I had left and maybe that would have been enough to destroy them. I also should have cast spirit leach on wounded shaman simply to get points. In the end I lost by 600+ points and destroying trolls and/or shaman would have make the defeat smaller.

Thanks for reading!

Cheers!

[Ferny]

Hi Swordmaster - thanks for the report (and perversely positive to see a loss as well - thank you for reporting it in as much detail as your previous glorious victory! I know you would anyway but it's still cool to see them side-by-side).

First off - I really enjoyed this one. I think your opponent did play better and I think some of the things which are a bit chance driven evened out in this game e.g. war machines and magic. I think these paired games are a good example of how magic can be great but one mustn't place all your hopes in it (not that you did, but the point stands I think).

So, onto the game...

1. I really thought between your ER1, DP1 and eagle you'd get the doom diver (much sooner). I guess his counterfire coupled with too many other targets to focus on were what prevented it?

2. I think you did well to bring the Arachnarok down - mission accomplished. Shows how chipping away can work! However, I wonder whether you'd have been better targetting the Wyrverns given that their improved mobility would let them choose to avoid your threat units? Guessing you didn't because of being shielded? If so, I think this is very good play on your opponents part, this time keeping both big flyers together and meat shielded.

3. What was the thought process when you charged the trolls? I think this was a mistake. Your army excels at multi-charges and here you charged a break-or-die unit (DPs) into a strong counter for them (vomit). I don't know what the alternative would have been - maybe hold back a turn and set up the WL2 lions for a flank?...mind you, the Big Un unit looming behind them would always be a threat...

4. What was the plan with S2? They seem to have spent most of the game out of it. I know they held the battleline, but against fast cav is this worth it? Could they have been moved forward more aggressively (in the direction of the frost forest board centre). Possibly ditto seaguard, though at least they had a great shooting point from the building.

5. I think you suffered from early unit depletions, which crippled your threat projection. I don't know what you could do about this. I can't think of an obvious counter to the monster-conga either except perhaps for magic. In theory they're vulnerable to flanking, but he had them sewn up pretty tight I think.

6. Not a game comment, but list...I think you suffered here with the eagle unit. What role did it have? Did it achieve it? Think how good 3 eagles would be in this game (or, as we max at 2, then 2 plus 50 bonus points to spend). As it was they seemed too expensive to sacrifice but too weak to commit?

Overall I think your opponent played well. I don't think you played badly but other than what I suggested I'm not sure what you could have done differently (given deployment, which I haven't analysed). I'll be interested to read more thoughts on how this could have gone your way had X or Y been done differently.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Hi Ferny,

Thanks a lot for your comments! I really appreciate the time you took to write them and I am always happy with feedback I receive!

It would not be fair to post only the victories.

Magic can indeed be fickle. That is the reason why I am still not fully sold on the Book. It did help, no mistake about it. But somehow I don't feel that it had a dramatic impact. Or maybe I am expecting too much?

1. I think a few things played here that resulted in the fact that it took me so long to get rid of the DD and that I lost 3 units in the process. First, shooting didn't work as I wanted it to work. My plan was to kill all the riders and thus forcing panic check on the wolf chariot. Magic didn't work well here either (I had a chance to destroy left most chariot with magic missiles but it failed too). It was a reasonably good plan as wardancer made a mistake of putting units in 6" distance from each other.

Because wolf riders didn't die but panicked instead it opened the path for the chariot. I also considered fleeing with reavers but I wanted to draw the chariot in charge range of Dragon Princes.

In the meantime, Mangler was way too close to risk dealing with it with shooting alone. So I decided to sacrifice the eagle. Then DD hit the Princes and panicked them. So I had to send 4th unit to destroy DD.

2. It was a very good idea on wardancer's part. He simply covered his fliers with Arachanrok and that allowed him to move fast later on. He also used that fact that my loremaster was in the building further away so that some of the magic missiles were out of range. It was calculated sacrifice as the giant spider took a lot of damage that otherwise would harm other units. It was also hard decision for me to make as I had to choose between light troops on the left flank or Arachnarok in the center.

3. Charging the trolls when they were at full strength was a mistake, despite flaming attacks. I had no chance to break steadfast on the charge. I did kill the shaman, always a bonus but I simply should have remembered that puking is auto-hit. I thought I could hold there long enough for one knight to survive and inflict flaming wound and then white lions would have picked up from that moment. Such units need to be either softened up first, attacked from the flank (and even then it is not always good idea) or attacked with more than one unit.

I should have held back with Lions and DP also to deny landing zones for the Wyverns. I felt the pressure to attack fast with cavalry to break through and get the war machines but there were only 2 and single doom diver obviously cannot target 2 units at the same time

4. I positioned SM2 a little further back in case the Wyverns were to fly straight at my lines. Which was wrong assumption. They did hold the line, allowing the characters to hop between the units. I wish I had them closer to the forest, however, as that would allow me to threaten NG and deny their rank bonus and steadfast. Even with nets they can lose combat and even with Warboss nearby, there is a chance to break them. In particular if BSB would be killed too.

I started to react with them, trying to position them for counter charge against one of the wyverns but wrong angle and good rolls on overrun meant I had no good option to do so. Then they got decimated by shooting and magic and I had to withdraw.

5. The deployment could have been better for sure. I had my units scattered too much and not supporting each other properly. Something that can be hard to amend during the game. I still think that the biggest mistake was with that early charge of DP. One of the reasons I have so many units is to be able to keep going even if some units become too small to be a threat. But as long as they are not dead entirely I can either use them as redirectors too.

6. I wanted to use the pair of eagles as a counter to fast units and chariot interceptors. The challenge with them is that they can't avoid being seen so easily. What is more, the threat of fanatics and manglers prevented me from landing closer to the enemy. Impact hits are also a danger here. I think that unit has a potential, maybe even with 3 eagles and full upgrades. It is costly for such regiment and I presume not many players would even consider it worthy over other units. But 2-3 eagles are not the same sacrificial regiment as single one and need to be used better.

Again, in this game such a unit does not have that many opportunities to shine and I am sure I was not even close to show what they can do. Please, note that I upgraded them all to ASF so 60 per eagle

Cheers!

[Iluvatar]

Great to read those two reports! Your brother did the right adjustments to his army list and game play - kudos to him!
And thanks for continually sharing with us.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Hi Iluvatar!

Thanks a lot! I am very happy to learn you liked the reports! Indeed, my brother learned from his previous defeat and I was not quick to come up with new counter plan. But that makes for a more interesting story, I believe!

It was suggested that we should play third game as a tie breaker. We actually did but this time he brought Empire instead. Check out the teaser in the new battle report topic!

Cheers!