Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

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hansleonard
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Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#1 Post by hansleonard »

To start things off.

My name is Hans. I have played Warhammer competitively for the last 4 years (Pretty much since the 8th edition of the warhammer rulebook happened). I have allways played elves. Started with Dark elves, moved to High elves and recently started a new Wood Elf army from old models i played with a lot at our local Games Workshop store before i started playing in tournements. Even though i have been playing tourneys for several years now, i do not consider my self to be a really good warhammer player. Not yet anyways. My main problem being that i haven't got to play much outside of the tournements. And that i haven't really taken the time to read through analyses, look through possible tactics etc. etc.

I often find myself in situations playing stronger opponents with weaker lists, and i'm caught off guard by moves that i had no idea were even possible. And not taking time analysing my own games enough, i don't learn from my mistakes enough, and are often caught making them again later, costing me even more points. This does not mean i don't know the game. I have several decent positions in the years i have played, and i currently have so many 4th places i have been awarded the "Kristin Størmer Steira award" from the local gaming club (Krinstin Størmer Steira being a Norwegian Croos Coutry skiier that is widelly known for almost allways placing 4th)

The goal of this AB is to have a place to analyse my games, to get discussions on topics ranging from list building to tactics. I still only play High Elves in tourneys since i need to paint my Woodies before i can field them, but that doesn't mean that i won't be playing them. I really want to experiment with them, and build a good solid list that i can eventually field. And playing a really maneuverable shooty wood elf list is a really nice break, and a good chance to try and get familiar with a very different playstyle from my more close combat hard hitting oriented High Elves. I really like the idea of having two different armies with two different playstyles to practice and experiment with to combine into an increased skill level of my play, so to speak. My main mission is still to become a better warhammer player, and finally get that top 3 place in a tournement.

I became a member in the local gaming club "2D6" so that i have a place and more opponents to play against, and so get to play a lot more and in return, learn a lot more. Just in the last few weeks since joining i have been able to play more games outside tournements than i have been able to in the last eight months!

In this blog i will make a fairly detailed report of my thoughts. I will:
Make battle reports.
Post lists and my thoughts around said lists, analyzing strengths and weaknesses, potential changes and things like that.
Preparations for oncomming tourneys and more.

I allready have an old blog on this forum: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=45305
And a battle report: h[url]ttp://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=46041[/url]

that you are more than welcome to read through if you'd like. From now on though, all my posts and thoughts and efforts will be directed into this blog.

Come now, and join me on my journey!
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
hansleonard
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:30 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#2 Post by hansleonard »

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
hansleonard
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:30 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#3 Post by hansleonard »

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
hansleonard
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:30 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#4 Post by hansleonard »

Starting off with my thoughts on the new woodies.

I won't do a full on analysis of the new book as i just don't have the time or will to do so. Not yet anyways. What i will do though is to put my initial thoughts into words and go through my strategy when it comes to building a strong list for them.

When i read through the new book, a few things imediatelly came to mind:
1. They have really strong shooting.
We all knew it would happen. Wood elves are supposed to be the greatest archers in the world, by far outclassing everyone else. At least from a fluff point of view. And they don't dissapoint. (Much anyways) I personally still think that DE and possibly Lizardmen, Ogres, Dwarfs and Tomb Kings can still make a much stronger shooty list that Wood elves, but Woodies still have a lot they can bring to the table.
Core archers that can take several different kind of upgrades ranging from never getting any to hit penalties for shooting to poison to heavy armour piercing and more.
Waywatchers that can tear through knights and other heavilly armoured targets like nothing at all, and still have enough firepower to tear through lightly armoured rank and file.
Magic items like Hail of Doom arrow and Bow of Loren that add even more firepower.
ALL shots fired from the elves have armour piercing.
The Glade Lord/Glade captain gets a "starting shot" A strength 3 hit that ignores armour saves that hits your opponents general if he is within 36" of you and you see him.
This all adds up to some really heavy shooting phases that can potentially turn the match into your favour. But it is still BS based shooting, which makes it unreliable. ofcourse you can make it more reliable with the new upgrades like "Allways hitting on three's" or poison or add to it with magic, but you will still run the risk of getting shooting phases where nothing seem to go in your favour (my last match agains Curu's High elves was a good excample where my 12 waywatchers who hit on 3's with 11 shots still only managed 1 to wound roll of 4 against his silver helms. And this also make the models cost more. although 3pts (or more depending on what upgrade you take) doesn't seem like much per model, when you start to add up, it's actually quite alot. And when things start getting more expensive, and they still can't survive much more than a gentle prod in the side with a blunt knife, things can get hairy quite fast.. Still. The new book increases the power of the Wood elf shooting phase many times over.

2. They get both HE and DE special rules.
Though, only when in forests. It's clear that GW wants to push the fac that Wood Elves are, well, WOOD elves. Possibly to try and increase the sales of their boxed forests. Being able to add one free forest is great. You can place it defencivelly to benefit max from the special rules you gain from bing inside them. You can place it in a corner, away from your battle line to have a place to moonstone to to escape and save points (More on the moonstone later). Use it to add more cover for your troops against shooting, to block a unit of cavalry or even better, chariots, running towards you, and more that i probably haven't thought of yet. Being able to shoot in an extra rank can be great. But more crucially, getting the reroll 1s to wound in CC might tip the balance in a few hairy fights. Especially now that all the elves have ASF, giving you a better chance to kill of some enemies before they get the chance to decimate you back.
When it comes to magic you can let a Spellweaver (lvl 3/4 wizard) use wither Dark or High Magic, with new Lore attributes that either increase survivability of the mage and its unit or increase the damage potential of the spells themselves. Based on what type of list you bring these lores are really good to take. I will go into this in a bit more detail when i get to my army list building later.

3. Glass Cannons FTW?
Sporting very limited armour (4+ being the best you can possibly get on a character without adding magic items) and only T3 on pretty much everything in the army, means that you cannot expect your units to be able to survive much damage. Facing lists with a lot of shooting or damage spells can really make your army dissapear alarmingly fast. There are ofcourse ways you can avoid this with your troops being mostly highly mobile, your free forest and magic. But without doing plenty of damage in return, you will have a really hard time accomplishing anything. Luckilly, this book is made up of A LOT of things that deal plenty of damage. As i mentioned before, the shooting phase can be incredibly deadly. And being able to choose from 10 different lores you can get a solid amount of damage done in the magic phase (Especially when you count in the fact that you get an additional +1 to cast when you're in a wood, which is actually quite strong). But also in close combat, the woodies are buffed up quite a lot. The adition of ASF and the previosly mentioned special rules from standing in forests adds a lot by itself. with the right spells, a 10 man archer unit can knock out a large amount of wounds in CC before the enemy gets the chance to strike back. The forest spirits are still standing strong, the dryads are a bit weaker, after getting their strength downgraded from 4 to 3. but the treemen and tree kin still hit hard, and are cheaper to boot. But it is in the elven CC troops that you see the new book really shine through.
All the old units are improved, and the new units can be quite strong as well. A short summary:
Eternal guard: Cheaper, more survivable with shields and a parry save in the first rank while the back ranks fight with spears, so they get to fight in an additional rank. Oh, and did i mention that all spears in the new book have armour piercing as well!?
Wildwood rangers: Think of them as Executioners, only with a few fancy rules (getting an additional attack when facing units with fear or terror), doesn't cost too much, and can deal a decent amount of damage.
Wardancers: Cheaper than before. Other than that, not much have changed. You can choose to add spears to some models if you'd like, giving you Armour Piercing from a few extra attacks in a third rank if you want that. The dances are pretty much the same as before, giving you extra attacks, 3+ ward save, killing blow and more.
Wild riders: These guys hit ridicilously hard when they get the charge. Fast cavalry gives you vanguard moves, and the ability to line up good charges much more easilly. On the charge they get 3 S5 ASF Armour Piercing attacks per model, plus an additional Strength 4 hit from the stags they ride on. They can deal incredible amounts of damage, and since they can take shields now, they can survive a little bit more shooting. They are still expensive though, and 4+ 6++ still isn't much defensivelly. A unit of them is still almost a must have in any wood elf list.

4. Some nice magic items.
Like all other new armybooks, the wood elves lost many good magic items. But the ones they retain are pretty good. At least some of them. You have:
Bow of loren: A+1 shots. On a Lord character this means 5 shots a round, a Hero level character have 4. Unfortunatelly cannot be combined with magic arrows (One of them is Multiple shots 2. 10 shots from a single charcter would be nice for excample) It's fairly cheap and increases your shooting potential.
Hail of Doom Arrow: 3d6 S4 arrows. You still have to roll to hit separatelly for each arrow. Again really good. (Why can't this be combined with bow of Loren for a nice 15d6 s4 Arrows? :P) Fairly Cheap and still as good as allways, so an auto include in my lists.
Moonstone of the Hidden Ways: Lets you move an entire unit from one wood to another. Really good to move a threatened unit out of harms way. And it can be used multiple times meaning that you can get even more mobility out of an allready highly mobile army. Have to be used at the end of the movement phase though, and the unit counts as having marched, so you cannot run around after having used it untill next turn. But this combined with Walk between worlds can see you line up charges much more easilly, or more important, GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE, when you really need to run away to save those precious points. It's quite decently priced as well, so that you can have it and still kit out your characters with other nice items.
Helm of the hunt: Devastating charge and +1 WS on the charge. Pretty much the same as before, both in price and what it does. +1 on your AS as well, which is nice.

There are several other magic items as well (Add D3 extra free forests, Tree singing from the old book to replace one of your other spells, A couple of magic swords that are quite nice but costs a lot, A really expensive MR3 and one shot unbreakable banner, and a banner that gives Vanguard, and lets you reroll your first failed charge (costs a lot)) But these are the only ones i have tried, and the only ones i suspect will be used frequently.

5. Semi-Warlocks aka. SIsters of the Thorn:
Moutned mage unitwith a 4++ save? Sweet! The spells aren't quite as good as the ones DE's Warlocks have, and they are mormore afraid of a miscast then the warlocks, but they are still quite good. Curse of Anraheir from Lore of Beasts is actually really good, limiting the target's movement and their damage output, and Shiel dof thorns from Lore of Life is a decent way to help you units damage output in CC, even though it isn't that much, but it does help clear ethereal blockers like spirit hosts. They are a bit steeply priced imo. They do have excelent mobility thanks to fast cavalry special rule, and a few poisoned AP javeling shots are welcome. They are good as bunkers for your characters, since they have such good mobility, and with their 4++ a little bit of Magic Resistance sees them shrug og Magic missiles like champs. Mundane shooting might be a bit of a problem, but with so many other vital targets for shooting they might be left standing because the other targets are more important to get rid off. Waywatchers and Wild Riders being the number one priority for most enemies.

6. Charcters:
Seeing as pretty much all the new books have added a few new types of characters (Sea Helm, Loremaster, Beastmaster, Black ark Corsair captain-guy to mention a few), it didn't come as much of a surprise that Wood Elves got a few additions. Unfortunatelly, the newcommers don't impress too much. You get a Waystalker, Which is basically only a waywatcher with an increased Balistic skill and the Sniper rule (You can ofcourse give him some items to increase his potential a bit, for excample, Ring of Fury to get sniping fireball) But he still doesn't add quite up. At least not alone. Add a couple more and you can pose a serious threat to the mages with litte to no save out there, or Characters without ward saves since you can still fire No armour save shots. But if you do that the point cost starts adding up incredibly fast.
You also get the Shadowdancer who is basically an expensive wardancer, with better WS and who can be a lvl 1 shadow mage (if you want to pay A LOT extra for him to be so) he's pretty "meh" as well. Costing far too much for what he does.

The old characters are back, and as with most of the other things in the book, they are better. Firstly they are cheaper allround. They get a few new special rules in addition to the army wide ones. The mages get plus 1 to cast when they are at least partially in a wood, and the Glade lord/captain gets the "start the game" arrow shot. Branchwraith's and Treeman Ancient's are wizards base who uses lore of life. Treeman Ancients can be upgraded to level 4 wizards as well (though at a pretty large cost). You do lose spites though which are quite a bummer.

When it comes to Special Characters though, i won't go too much in depth as i usually don't get the chance to field them in my local gaming enviroment. One that i do want to try out some time though is the newest addition to the pack. Araloth, He sports 5 attacks, Stubborn Special rule (Unbreakable if he is alone) 4++ save, S4 and the Asrai Spear giving him Armour Piercing. In addition. Each turn he may nominate a single enemy model anywhere within 18" of himself. That model takes a S4 hit. If the hit wounds and is unsaved and you rolled a 6 to wound, that model has suffers a -5 modifier to both Initiative and Weapon skill for the rest of the game (To represent his trusted hunting Falcon pecking the models eyes out). He doesn't cost too much either, so he could be fun. Probably not the most competitive choice, but still fun.

There are a lot more things that needs to be looked at and analyzed, but these are the first things that hit me, and what mostly features in my thoughts when it gets to list building. The new book adds a lot, without straying from the core feeling of playing a wood elf army. You get a lot of things to exploit enemy weaknesses, and get a tiny bit of added survivability for yourself. The army is still highly mobile, and have a nice amount of added punch to help deal with before impossible match ups.

There are some match ups that still is impossible to do well against. A bit too many for this book to be top tier. But it is boosted from dead bottom to a book that i consider to be above average when it comes to powerlevel. There still needs to be a lot of testing to properly place it. But it is at least Decent now, and much more fun to play.


Now, to list building. I will start by explaining my thoughts going into planning the building of the list. Then the list itself, analyzing each choice as i go. Then i will try my best to talk about the different strengths and weaknesses of the list as a whole also trying to assess how to exploit said strengths and lessen the magnitude of the weaknesses on the field of battle. Input of any kind is appreciated, be it questions or thougths about the different choices or tactics. Or anything else.

Well then. When i first started thinking about what i wanted in my lists i first started looking at what kind of army i wanted. Do i want a really close combat oriented army, with as much hard hitters as possbile and a steady backline of infantry. Did i want a cavalry heavy army with lots of fliers and mounted troops to punch where it would hurt the most.

There are a few core builds with different unit types that i could think of straight away:
1. Maximise the number of shots. SPending all your core points on archers, special with Scouts and sisters to get more shots off and some more skirmishing scouts to harass flanks and run around causing mischief, waystalkers and a lord with bow of loren and Hail of doom, a mage with lots of damage spells and a BSB, and max waywatchers. A list that cannot take any kind of CC, but that can potentially tear an enemy army to shreds. Mobile archers that can run around the enemy, and moonstone to move some of it out of the way.
2. Two solid blocks of infantry, Eternal guard+Wildwood Rangers, with a large unit of archers and two waywatcher groups adding firepower to the list. a Wild rider unit with General+BSB to smash into exposed flanks. Suffers from the fact that even though they can deal nice amounts of damge in CC, they cannot take much of anything. Eternal Guard are stubborn though, so they can usually hold for a little while at least while i move combo charges into position.
3. Treemen and Tree kin, Lore of Life, to heal and boost, Archers to fill up core. A list pretty similar to the ones usually found in tournements with the old book, only now with a few more bodies since the points cost have dropped slightly. Finally something that can take some damage! But, there's still alot of weaknesses. But there are fewer horrible match-ups for this kind of list. Real downside is that you miss out on using a lot of the new powerfull tools that the book has to offer.
4. A combined arms aproach. Plenty of missile fire, An offensive lore choice, Mobile, hard hitting CC units. Still suffers from the frailty of elves, but it have a lot of powerfull tools to hit your opponent where it hurts the most. Can deal with both heavilly armoured armies and to a certain degree Horde armies. It does however struglle against armies with either a lot of firepower, high toughness or high mobility. Or even worse, a combination.

With these different core build options in mind i set about making a list. I fell quite early for the combined arms approach. I wanted an army that could do plenty in all phases of the game. Especially in the shooting phase, as all my High Elf armies recently have had very few shooting units. So i knew i needed several shooting threats. Luckilly, the new book adds a lot of that. Strong core archers, Waywatchers, and several magic items that helps. I also wanted some heavy hitters. I needed fast heavy hitters to exploit the fact that most opponents will have to close in on my ranged troops as fast as possible, and so might leave gaps that i can use to devastating effect and deliver a fatal blow. Treemen, tree kin and to some degree infantry elves can deliver a har blow if directed at the right places, but they lack the needed mobility to smash into exposed areas. I toyed around with the idea of having a unit of wardancers with a few combat oriented characters with items like sword of bloodshed and potion of strength to really make a devastating impact. But even being skirmishers, they lack the mobility to really get to where i need them fast enoguh, and they cannot take much damage either, which makes them really expensive, and easy to just clean off the board. I tested out an army with these guys agains lizardmen, and they wiped out a fully kitted out Cold one Knight bus with three Saurus characters fully kitted out before they even got the chance to strike back, but after that initial devastating charge, they are still just t3 guys with only a 6++ save.. They die far too easilly and so they were scrapped. The wardancers themselves might come back in a future list, but for now, they will be left behind. What i needed was Wild riders. They have excellent mobility. M9 and Fast cavalry special rule sees them get excactly where i need them to be. They also have 4+ AS thanks to shields, and a 6++ that while not adding much protection, still is really welcome. They also pack A LOT of damage on the charge. Perfect for mye needs.
I Also wanted some redirectors, to help set up the right charges, and keeping their hard hitters away from my expensive infantry. Seeing as everything in the book is expensive save for Eagles (Or Scouts but they lack the mobility a flyer has) i knew i had to use eagles for this role. Only characters left. I needed characters that added to the list, and somewhere too keep them safe. Sisters fit the safekeeping role nicelly, so i added a unit.

I don't need a fighty lord, and i don't have the points for it either. Glade captain with Bow of Loren and Hail of Doom to ad to my shooting power. A lvl 1 scroll Caddy with Lore of Heavens since iceshard Blizzard is just too good to pass up, and in some match ups, Spells like Thunderbolt, or harmonic convergence might come in handy.I also needed a Lord level mage. A lvl 4. When it comes to lore choice, there are so many options. I have 10 different lores to choose from. The first that came to mind was high Magic. A good mix of buffs and damage spells, And the lore attribute (For each spell you get through you get a counter, whenever the mage or anyone in his unit suffers an unsaved wound you remove one counter and the wound is negated, the counters stack and do not dissapear untill used (or the mage dies)) is really good. Unfortunatelly, there are some match ups where the lore won't be any help at all, most spells won't do anything helpfull. Lore of Death os a good choice. Possibly the best lore in the game, with devastating debuffs in D&D and Soulblight, and spells that can snipe important targets and the wortex that can both stop a unit in it's tracks (You cannot volountarilly move througha vortex) and kill off big monsters and anything else with low Initiative. Unfortunatelly the lore will probably be comped so that you cannot combine it with a lot of shots (or something along those lines) it usually is since it is so strong. Shadow can boost my killiness with Withering and Mindrazor, or increase survivability with spells like enfeebling foe and Miasma, but it too suffers from the fact that there are plenty of situations where it just is useless (every lore has that problem, but Shadow doesn't synergise too well with my list unfortunatelly) Dark Magic on the other hand does. It ads plenty of extra ranged threats, a vortex, a way to get back wound on my mage, Debuffs that increase survivability and buffs that increase killing power. And the lore attribute adds even more to the killing power (When you successfully cast a spell, you add a counter to the enemy target unit(s) When you cast a damage spell from this lore on a unit with a counter, you remove it and add d3 extra hits) Not too much, but it helps a little. I think i will at least try it out. The Lore choice on my lvl 4 mage is the only thing i'm still highly unsure about at this point. Apart from that i'm pretty confident in my list.

And here it is:
Lords: 330
Spellweaver - LVL 4 Dark Magic, Elven Steed, Moonstone of the Hidden Ways, Power Stone, Obsidian Amulet - 330
Moonstone gives me more mobility with the sister unit. And in a pinch i can move the mage over to another unit and move that unit out of the way instead, trusting that the mobility of the sister unit is enough to get them to safety. The obsidian amulet grants me MR2 which means i can shrug ogg magic missiles with a 2++ save. This leaves me 30 points in Magic Items allowance, If i had 5 more points i would have taken the Power Scroll to boost my magic even further, but the power stone is still a nice little boost especially if i get a low dice magic phase to push through a crucial spell. The Mage adds a lot to the list in ranged threats and in buffs/debuffs. I have considered placing her on a Unicorn, to allow for more points in magic items, but doing so i loose the fast cavalry benefit on the sisters, which is bad. Unfortunatelly.

Heroes: 279
Glade Captain - BSB, Elven Steed, Shield, Asrai Spear, Hail of Doom Arrow, Bow of Loren - 164
I need a BSB. And When i get the chance to increase my ranged threats as well, i gladly take him. He runs with the mages in the sisters unit for protection. in a bad situation where i need to charge into combat (This should never have to happen unless i am completelly certain i can wipe out the enemy unit before they strike back) he adds a little extra hitting power with 3 S5 attacks with AP.

Spellsinger - LVL 1 Heavens, Elven Steed, Dispel Scroll - 115
Not much to say. A cheap mage with a scroll. He's mainly in the list just for the scroll, but Iceshard blizzard/Harmonic convergence might come in handy.

Core: 615
19 Glade Guard - Trueflight Arrows, Musician - 295
10 Glade Guard - Hagbane Tips, Musician - 160
10 Glade Guard - Hagbane Tips, Musician - 160

Trueflight arrows negate all to hit penalties for shooting like cover, skirmisher and moving and shooting. Hagbane tips gives the shooting attacks poison. The poison archers is to target targets with high toughness like Chimeraes, chariots, warmachines, Phoenixes etc. that i have trouble wounding. They also have armour piercing which ofcourse helps against anything with armour. The trueflight guys are great. They can move around and shoot through cover without penalty, meaning that they can take out redirector that hide behind enemy units and skirmishers much more easilly. A solid core of archers is the back of every Wood elf army as far as i'm concerned. I might try to shave off a few points hera and there to make it 4 units of 10, two with Hagbane and two with trueflight. Or spread the archers i allready have a bit more evenly around the three units, for excample, 15-12-12.

Special: 594
7 Wild Riders - Shields - 196
7 Wild Riders - Shields - 196

Two units of Wild Riders. These guys have a combined 42 S5 attacks on the charge plus 14 S4 from the mounts. Superior mobility sees them wherever they need to be whenever they need to be there. And they can crush many different types of units on the charge. A flank charge on Knights or monstrous cavalry is the dream, maximizing the amount of attacks i can dish out while minimizing the return attacks, because they are still super squishy.

7 Sisters of the Thorn - Champion, Musician - 202
Bunker for my characters. A mobile force of mages that have pretty decent spells. With the characters in the unit they get an additional +1 to cast as well which is nice. They can take some damage thanks to their 4++ save, and with the MR from my Spellweaver this is increased to 2++ against magic missiles and the like which is good. The best choice in the book to bunker your mages in, with their saves and the high mobility from fast cavalry M9.

Rare: 580
12 Waywatchers - 240
12 Waywatchers - 240

Not much to say. Excelent archers, Scouting and skirmishing. Can deal with high armoured targets as well as horde units (They can choose to use either No AS shots or fire multiple shots 2. They cost a lot though, which is a slight downside, but they are still way cheaper than before, and much better. Comp systems will most likelly set a limit as to how many shots and waywatchers i can have in the army. If this is the case i will most likelly have to drop a few to stay within the limits, but that just leaves more points to add to the rest of the army.

Great Eagle - 50
Great Eagle - 50
Redirecting duty, what they are best at, probably the best in th egame for that role. Can warmachine hunt as well.

A grand total of 2398 pts.
Last edited by hansleonard on Mon May 19, 2014 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
SpellArcher
Green Istari
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Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#5 Post by SpellArcher »

Interesting thoughts!

I agree the free wood is really good now (tempting just to sit in it and await a good Moonstoning opportunity!) and this is helped by being able to put it outside of the deployment zone these days. I'm considering a Skirmishing bunker for my lvl4 and simply zip around the table shooting and magicking stuff.

I'm interested that you consider Shadow a bad choice. Monsters with decent saves look like an issue to me and Withering/Pit seem to have that covered. I take the point about it being bad in some matchups but a supporting lvl2 should be able to cover those gaps I feel.

Personally, I can't see a Tree Spirit list working at all, except maybe with Drycha. The Treemen don't like cannon, the Treekin can't kill anything. If I was doing a combat bus list I'd be tempted to use Sisters for the 4++, while the characters do the killing. More control because it's not Frenzied.

Your list looks very sensible but I'm not sure I'd call it Combined Arms because it relies on avoidance and countercharges rather than Stubborn stuff and taking ground. I'm starting to think 2x10 Hagbane is pretty much a minimum for dealing with Daemons etc. Do you feel Trueflight is essential to a competitive list or can Waywatchers etc. cover that area if necessary?
hansleonard
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:30 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#6 Post by hansleonard »

@ SpellArcher: I'll answer each point here as you bring up a few good points. Firstly, The free wood is indeed great. The fact that it is a GW wood is amazing by itself just considering the sheer size of it. Add in the fact that you can place it anywhere on your side of the board, AND that you can choose what kind of forest it is makes it even better. Even though many of the possible choices for the kind of forest aren't really great for your army, it is great for making it an even greater threat to your opponent if he have to move through it. Forests that cause damage to your troops, or makes you stupid, etc.
As for the bit about a skirmishing bunker jumping from forest to forest.. I agree that it would be really nice, but just consider theese facts. Firstly, none of the skirmishing choices available to you can take much damage at all, now, DE have proven that this can still work with a Shadestar, but they have amazing shooting, and they are a special choice. In addition to this fact, they have plenty of items that increase the bunkers survivability (I'm talking about the old book here where you had items that severely diminished the threat from enemy shooting against the unit. The wood elf book just don't have any of theese opions available. At best you're looking at a unit that have only a 6++ save against shooting and a 3++ against Magic missiles. and that the enemy without feeling too much afraid of miscasts can throw all kinds of devastating spells at that will wipe you off the board. Waywatchers are great for ranged threats, and Wardancers are good in CC, but they are just too expensive. And the character's don't fare much better either. And to really utilise the added mobility the moonstone grants you.. Most tables in tournements only have two woods, that makes it three when you add your free one. The forests are often in the deployment zones or clustered together. This means that you most likelly won't get out of harm's way, which is the moonstones top priority most of the time as you wiill likelly just trade one evil for another. If you add the acorn to your list you might remedy that quite heavilly as you can suddenly place up to three aditional forests on the board. To sum it all up, a Skirmishing bunker is just too expensive, and if you go all in on making one, you just don't have the points left to have units that will win you points. The bunker itself can't take much damage, and in some match ups, it will just get anihilated no matter what you try to do to protect it. Going back to the old DE shadestar, they could spend a decent amount of points on that unit, and still have characers on pegasuses that were almost unkillable, Hydras, Cold one Knights, Crossbowmen and other things that could stack up points in your favour, so that even if you lost the bunker, you could still save the day with the rest of your force. We, just don't have that, and so i don't think it is viable.

Onto the second point. I agree that Shadow is a good lore, it might be one of the best lores in the game, but, there are a few things to consider.
When i look at a potential lore for my armies, i start by looking at each individual spell, seeing how well it synergises with my list, and what spells i really want to roll. Considering the list above there's only two spells i really want, with a couple other spells, being OK, but not really needed for the list to work. I'll go through all the spells:
0. Miasma, This is really good, and i want it, no matter what.
1. Steed of Shadows, Nope!
2. Enfeebling Foe, Seeing as i really don't want to be in any kind of combat where i'm afraid of being hit back in any large quantity, i don't really need this spell. It's the shooting that will deal with High Strength targets anyways, leaving the only close combat units (Wild Riders) to clean smaller units and lone characters away.
3. Withering. Now this one is really great. A bit expensive, especially when i have to boost the range which i will have to do most of the time, but it synergizes great with the list making the shooting even deadlier.
4. Pendulum. Mostly rubbish,
5. Pit of SHades, Really unreliable with the scattering, most of the time you will see it being pushed throug hat a crucial point of the game, just to scatter away and don't do anything.
6. Mindrazor. The only units that benefit from this spells is Archers or possibly waywatchers, but the spell still won't do too much. It will only slightly increase the killiness of my most of the time just 10 attacks, and units that push through my shooting will often strike back and destroy the unit still. Still it is a really good spell and can help out in a pinch, but it is a close combat buff, in a Shooting army.

So, out of the 7 possible spells, there are two that i really want, two that are rubbish, and three that can be used, but that i don't really need. That means that there will be some games where i won't get at least one of the spells i really want, and several of the other possible spells won't be used much at all, or pose any serious threat to my opponent. Nowtake dispelling priority into consideration. There are only two spells that are crucial to get through in any given magic phase, (a few times three). Miasma is good to get through, but it won't affect your opponent too much and so can be let through without much consequense. Withering on the other hand can potentially be devastating and so will most of the time see most of the dices and the scroll saved to stop you from casting it. This will most of the time leave you with two spells that won't do much at all.

Compare it to Death Magic for excample. Here you have Spirit Leech, Soulblight, Doom and Darkness, Purple sun, and two other really strong sniping spells that all of them pose a real threat to most armies. Here, the dispelling priority is much more difficult for your opponent. Shal i let through Doom and Darkness and suffer a large penalty to my leadership, to save my mage from being sniped, or the purple sun from destroying my units and plans (Purple sun is much more reliable than Pit of shades, Especially when you counter in the fact that even if it don't reach all the way to it's intended target, it will still block of the path to you since you cannot move through the vortex voloutnarilly, so you have to move around it.

This is the main reason why i don't consider Shadow magic to be a top choice for this particualer list. There's just too many spells that just won't do anything, and so won't bother your opponent.

Finally onto the last point.
My thoughts when calling it a Combined Arms approach stems more from the fact that it is a combination of high mobility, and devastating shooting. With hard CC hitters in the Wild Riders and a really potent ranged threat from WW and GG, all with a high amount of mobility.
Hagbane is really good to take on High Toughness targets, and as long as the tournement comp allows it two units of 10 is almost an auto include. When it comes to the Trueflight unit, i feel that they cover a ground that no other units in the book really can. Reliably removing skirmishers, and scouts. Many armies have problems dealing with units like Shades, Chameleon SKinks, Gutter Runners etc. Most of the time they run around you to be at long range. This added up with the fact that they are skirmishers and that you have to move to be able to shoot at them, (Or direct your mage to take them out which removes it from the more crucial parts of the battlefield means that they often are really hard to get rid off, and many times they will cause a large amount of trouble for your back lines before they are gone. Trueflight guys don't take any shooting penalties at all, and so can move and be at long range and still hit reliably. Waywatchers are needed to take care of more high priority targets and can't really be spared to go on harrasser removing duty. And even they aren't that reliable anyways.
Let's look at a normal scenario, waywatchers shooting at Shades. Often the Waywatchers will have to moveto get be able to shoot them, that means hitting on 3's. Then you add the Skirmisher penalty, 4's. If you want the watchers safer from return fire that means often placing them in or behind woods, lets say in a wood, which most likelly will leave you at long range, that's 5's. And since you only wound on 4's the best way to increase the chance of getting enough kills to weaken the unit you will have to use multiple shots which makes it 6's. I'm not good with numbers but it's easy to see that you won't get much damage done compared to the investment you make when you use an important unit like waywatchers to deal with theese threats. A unit of 10 GG with Trueflight averages at somewhere between 3-4 kills a round against shades if i'm not mistaken. which is significantly better, and you invest a much less important unit to the task, leaving the waywatchers free to target more important units.

So yes, i think trueflight is essential in any competitive list as it adds something that you just don't have otherwise.
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hansleonard
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Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#7 Post by hansleonard »

Seeing as the ETC comp for the new book is out, and it is with this comp in mind i have made this list (as most of the time all the opponents i play against use this comp package) I have to make some alterations to the list. GG with Trueflight/Hagbane and Waywatchers have a limit of 60 total in the army (With Waywatchers countig as two each.) so in my current list i have 87, which means a lot of them have to go, unfortunatelly. I will spend the evening redoing the list, and then edit the original post with the new composition, then i will make the promised analysis.
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SpellArcher
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Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#8 Post by SpellArcher »

Not unexpected I guess, ETC were always going to hit massed elite archery. Looking forward to the amended list.

Some guys have cited the Abyssal Wood as a way of helping out WWR's but Venom Thicket looks the most reliable. Forcing DT tests on any enemy unit is a nice bonus.

A solid point about the vulnerability of the skirmishing bunker. I feel though that this is worse against some opponents than others. Some armies for example will have virtually no shooting that can threaten it, especially considering you'll be aiming to minimise the shooting your opponent can bring to bear when you choose your teleport spot. -2 is also a big obstacle to some shooters. Magic is also a problem but again, if you defend properly your opponent should not be getting off more than one spell and I would be aiming to run combat troops at him to demand attention. My (UK) tourney experience is that woods tend to be well spaced, though I'd agree that 2 is most likely. I'd be aiming to make some kind of triangle with the free one.

This is linked to another problem I'm having which is that running a combat list, good shooting is still essential. So I think I need 2x10 Hagbane Glade Guard and 2x5 Waywatchers pretty much as minimum. Against armour I need to be able to put the Waywatchers exactly where I need them and against Monsters ditto with the Core archers. So none of these units make a good bunker per se, given the need to dovetail with the character(s). You reckon Trueflight is essential though Hans, so possibly a unit of Trueflight Scouts is a good call. I now feel the way forward with this Moonstone idea is to exploit the fact that you can move bearer and unit into the wood from different directions and then teleport. So basically you keep your options open, Moonstoning with the unit of your choice but only when the time is right. Incidentally, thanks for your help here, this is supposed to be your blog of course!

:)

Yep, given the shooting focus of your list, I entirely accept that Enfeebling and Mindrazor are not ideal, nerfing the Lore.
hansleonard
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Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#9 Post by hansleonard »

The main problem i've found when reviewing my last game against HE, and the other games i have played so far.. Is that the Wood elf shooting is just not good enough when it is comped. The guys writing that comp set have mostly taken away the most important part of a fast moving shooty Wood elf list, namely being able to reliably cut down the size of enemy units so that you can safelly engage them with your glass cannons. Other armies that makes similar types of lists, with hard hitters that can gather up points and shooting to soften up the targets and remove fast moving threats/chaff, have something that this book really lacks.. The option to have those heavy hitters be able to absorb some damage and get to their intended targets still mostly intact.
DE with Peg characters, CoK, Hydras etc. Or Shooty High Elves with SH, DP, White Lions, PG. Lizardmen with CoK, Sauruses. Empire with Chicken Knights, Knights. And their ranged units are much less expensive as well. Meaning that they can have more of them or even better, not loose so many points when they are gone and the heavy hitters start doing their job of racking up those points in your favour.

Most WE lists with the new book needs Waywatchers to deal with heavilly armoured targets. Magic is too unreliable, and the best lores against said armoured targets is horrible for the army. Waywatchers can strip them completelly of their AS which is amazing. But it comes at a cost. They cannot take any damage at all before falling like flies. Yes, they are had to hit when you shoot at them if you place them properly. But they are still just a simple fireball away from having their damage output severelly diminished.

Creating a reliable, "hard" Wood Elf list is proving really difficult. Especially when they are comped the way they are ATM. I feel like i need more shooting to make this list viable, but the shooting available to me is limited due to the fact that there isn't possible to fill Core with the best archers. Not without removing too many Waywatchers which also are a must have in this list. A mostly optimal list would look a lot like the one i posted above i think. The bus does not need to be bigger to accomplis it's goal, to protect the characters running around with it. But even that "optimal" list have many weaknesses. I have gone through The armybooks in order, trying to decide which are bad/good match ups for this list. All based on what i have seen mostly being used in the tournements i have been to and from reading armyblogs etc.

Beastmen: This is a match up that you can in some cases manage. They lack the mobility and shooting to threaten you significantly. The list should be able to clear away chaff relativelly easy, leaving the rest of the game to weaken their combat blocks enough to be able to engage them safelly. Most Beastmen lists uses Shadow/Death magic, and this is really not that scare for this list at all, since they lack the mobility to deal with you. Still, there's really no way to chew through all the combat blocks, and so most of their points (The Characters and their bunker) will most likelly survive (unless something spectacular happens like a horrible miscast or something along those lines) But should be able to get a 16-4/17-3 result at least (since they don't really have anything to threaten you.

Brettonia: This one can go either ways. They have mobility with their cav busses, and with a Ward Save te shooting is slightly less deadly against them. Waywatchers are ofcourse devastating in this match up. Lorewise i mostly see them go for Life or beasts or a combination. Life can potentially be bad as a Dwellers is the one spell in the game that the bus is REALLY afraid of. Mobility can win the game here as the skirmishing Waywatchers and the Fast cavalry bus and Wild Riders are very hard for the Brets to catch. Chaff can be cleared, The GG might not survive due to not having the same mobility as the rest of the list. But Wild RIders i think will shine in this match-up. Having two units can help set up potential flank charges that will be trully devastating to the Bretonian cavbusses. At best this match up can go to a 20-0 Win, but a more likelly result is probably closer to 15-5 to 17-3.

Daemons of Chaos: Now this one is tougher. The bus is probably save thanks to the mobility, but The rest of the army is much more exposed. Tzeench magic can be devastating to the feeble elves, and plenty of high Toughness targets can be a big problem. The shooting will be a bit lacking here. And there's really not many targets the Wild Riders can safelly engage. Most daemons lists are fairly slow, so there's still the possibility of just trying to keep away from them, trying to shave off a few points here and there with shooting and magic. Not ideal to try and get into CC at any point. If luckyit should still be possible to get a decent result of 14-6 at best IMHO, but against seasoned players and hard lists, it's more down to trying to save the Draw.

Dark Elves: I think this might be one of the worst match ups for me. They have all the shooting, Magic offense and mobility needed to ruin my list. Even the bus won't feel to save here. Shades vs Waywatchers will most often go to Shades due to superior numbers. Especially when the Trueflight arrows are capped. And all this is not even without accounting for Hydras, Cold ONe KNights or Witch Elves. Even though a Witch elf dominated list might be one of the better match ups for me, as they lack mobility, and being frenzied they can be baited away from significant combat. In any way, no matter what kind of list the Dark Elves bring, i think i will have a hard time getting anything more than a draw.

Dwarfs: I have very little experience with dwarfs. But from what i gather, this will most likelly be a shooting duel. If he tries to move against me with infantry, i can stay away from his shooting and remove the threat. The same will be the case for me. I'm not sure who will win an all out shooting duel. I got the mobility on my side, meaning that i can hit him from multiple angles, giving him a harder time trying to take it all, as he will most likelly be deployed in a corner, and with mostly warmachines and slow moving infantry to do the shooting. Miners might be a slight problem, if i can't remove them before they do heavy damage to me. I haven't even played against the new book, so i don't really have any idea what to really expect. I think i'll manage a win if i'm just careful.

High Elves: Now this will be interesting. Seeing as this is the one army i have the most knowledge about it is much easier to make a solid evaluation. There's mainly three types of lists beeing used in my local gaming enviroment. You hae the Dragon List (Usually with a SH bus with Heavens i think), Cavalry lists like the one Curu is using (Only with less Magic Missiles though..) And a more Combined arms approach with Both Cavalry and Infantry, with Loremaster/Archmage. Out of the three i know i have absolutelly no chance against the Cav-bus approach. There's just too much mobility for me to handle. And magic missiles that it's next to impossible to hide from. And the RBT's is a major problem for me, as i cannot dedicate shooting to take them out, and it's fairly easy to stop me from assaulting them wih my cav/eagles. I should be able to keep the bus alive if i'm just way more careful with it than i have been in the last two games. The Dragon Build i'm a bit more confident about. The bus in this list is much easier to handle, as there's less points available to buff it up. And Heavens is a much easier lore for me to handle than triple Soulquench... Still a bit too much mobility to my liking, but much more handable. Wild Rild Riders against dragon is not too bad for me either. As long as i get the charge that is. The Prince only have S4 attacks, which i can handle, and when i strike back it will be with at least 12 S5 Attacks with Reroll and S5 AP. If the Dragon have taken a few wounds this should be possible to deal with. Trying to chaff away the bus untill i have dealt with the dragon, then run around it clearing the RBT's and chaff and then moving on to try and take it down if i have the time. Against this list i think i can manage a small victory at least with the best case scenario beeing a 15-5/16-4 i think if i'm lucky.
THe last type of HE list i'm much more confident about. Yes, you have the Loremaster with all his Magic missiles and fun, but that list lacks mobility, meaning that i can take my time clearing the board of everything but the Loremasters BOTWD bunker, and get a decent result. I actually played the High Elf side with a list like this against "My kind" of shooty wood elf list a few days ago (at 2000 pts) and lost. It wasn't a major loss, and i was unlucky on several occasions failing several 6's charges With my cavalry and setting a new world record in failing 3+ Armour saves.. (Seriously, i failed 6 out of 9 3+ saves against his ONE unit of 10 Trueflight Archers in one phase, and that was before the Waywatchers started shooting..) And i played a little too defensivelly. But the game showed me that a list like the one i brought will struggle against the new WE, even with the way they have been comped. In this Scenario, i'm confident i should be able to get a 14-6/15-5 at least.

Lizardmen: Damn be to the ETC. comp. With an optimal list most lizardmen wouldn't bee that hard to play against, as i have plenty of things that will remove his shooting, leaving me with the greater mobility needed to avoid his CC troops, and the shooting power to see it diminished (If i'm lucky, enough to try a combo charge T6). Don't get me wrong. This is a match up that will mostly be decided in the shooting phase. The player with the must luck o' the dice winning. I will also need to position myself carefully, making sure to try and exploit my Superior range and BS as much as possible. Depending on the list and the opponent, Lizardmen can be manageable.

Ogre Kingdoms: Bad match up i think. Too much toughness for my shooting to be able to deal with. And with Maneaters and Leadbealchers spelling bad news all the way. They also have some spells that can spell trouble for me, and in several cases, enough mobility to make things even more hairier. I have never been comfortable playing against OK, And i don't feel too comfortable now. Depending on the opponents list, i might be able to get a small win, but i don't find it too likelly.

Orcs and Goblins: Too many bodies for me to handle. And with Warmachines, Fanatics, Magic and some shooting that can make the day even worse. I just don't see a way for me to carve through the big block that they usually bring to the table, and it will be really hard for me to get to the warmachines behind them. Again, i might get a small victory, but i will in most cases have to look for a draw i think.

Skaven: Same problem when it comes to the sheer amount of bodies i will have to get through, only this time with much more deadly shooting and magic. A trully horrible match up for me. Not much more to say.. I fail to see any way that i can win here.

Empire: Much more handeable. Light Magic (that they mostly use) are possible to deal with (even with double Banishment). They lack the shooting needed to stop my Wild Riders, That will carve through Empire Knights and Chicken Knights easilly. I just need to weaken them first, and that is very possible with Waywatchers and plenty of Armour Piercing shooting. Hail of Doom Arrow will shine in this match up i think. As will Dark Magic. Steam Tank is still hard to get rid off.. But as long as i can avoid it, it shouldn't do too much damage to me.

Tomb Kings: The TK army i usually face, is just brutal against this list. Containing 4! sphinxes, and maxed out shooting, AND death Magic.. This could go to hell and back quickly. The insane amount of toughness on the Sphinxes means that i cannot take them out without dedicating all my shooting to it, and it will still be really hard. And that's just to remove one of them.. And with all his shooting, i won't have much left pretty soon. We're talking about around 50-60 shots a round (Probably more) And three breath weapons. And he have the casket as well as other magics that can tear me a new one. This will be really hard just to get a draw from i think.

Vampire Counts: Again the problem of just facing too many bodies for me to handle. Luckilly, Most of his points are often centred in a knight bus, which i can deal with. I will just have to remove his fast moving threats, and then try to get to his characters. Maybe sacrificing a unit of Wild Riders to try and get to them. I also have plenty of magic shooting and missiles to deal with Ethereals. This match up will be hard, but not impossible.

Warriors of Chaos: The standard "best" WoC armies in my enviroment have plenty of fast moving, heavy hitting, high toughness and save monsters and chariots and flying characters.. Chimeraes, Chariots, Disc Characters, Deamon Princes.. This is horrible for me. Lots of mobility, and enough saves and toughness to make my shootingalmost useless. Especially since there are just too many high priority targets. Unless i face some of the softer lists with lots of infantry, i don't see a way for me to win.

Wood Elves: Mirror match ups are bad for me. They are often decided by the player with the best strategy. In a shooting dominated one as this is bound to be, getting first turn, and having the gods of the dice on your side will most likelly be the deciding factor.

Chaos Dwarf: The monsters will be a problem, and with solid shooting, high toughness and saves on the rest of the army, and strong magic.. This will be pretty bad for me. Again, i don't really see any way for me to win this.
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Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#10 Post by Ether Dude »

Hi Hans,

I hope you're still persevering with this project. The wood elves have a lot of tools that counter ETC-style denial play, and I'm sad to see that the organizers have chosen to comp out that potential rather than accept that the status-quo may be upset.

With that in mind, I think there are opportunities, albeit in different veins. For example, I think strong denial plus selective point sniping is a really good way to play; think light/heavens/high/metal, sister bunker, core glade riders with arcane bodkins, 5 way stalkers and units of scouts. The combat elements need to come from special and rare, and I think you could look into a treeman.

The main concern would be stopping magic missile spam at the way stalkers, but with so many snipes, you might be able to suffer only a turn or two of that. You might also be able to try and moonstone/MR3 a large scout unit, but that starts to endanger the mobility of the army.
hansleonard
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Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#11 Post by hansleonard »

I feel the same way. I think that since the Comp is as it is, a mobile Gunline with Glass Cannons (as was the set-up most lists i have seen have gone for) Is almost impossible to pull of in a good way the way the new book has been comped now. I'm currently looking into different new builds. One of them being a very mobile MSU shooting list, similar to the type of list you were suggesting. I have also tried to make a more "Battle-Line" type lists, trying to use some of the new infantry and things like that, ut so far it's only theories, and no games have been played since my last against Curu.

The main reason for this is that most of my time the last few weeks have gone into preparing for the next local Tournement. It's a 2000pts Very light Comp tourney (Basically, the only comp for me is No more than 500 pts pr. unit and max 12 PD per Pase (Max 5 pr spell)).

Since i have been on the lazy side when it comes to painting (as you can see from the pictures in Curu's blog :?), i have to bring my High Elves ( i probably would have done this anyways as i don't have nearly enough experience with the new woodies to take them to a tourney anyways..)

The list i will bring (after much thoughts) is this:

Loremaster - Book of Hoeth, Shield of Merwyrm, Sword of AntiHeroes - 330
Mage - LVL 2 Lore of High Magic - Dispel Scroll - 145
Mage - LVL 2 Lore of Heavens - Sceptre of Stability, Ironcurse icon - 140
Noble - BSB, Heavy Armour, Halberd, Reaver Bow, Potion of Strength - 146

30 Archers - Full Command - 330
5 Reavers - Bows, Musician - 95
5 Reavers - Bows, Musician - 95

28 White Lions - Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon - 444

4 Repeater Bolt Throwers - 280

Total: 2000

A strong Magic and Shooting Phase, With heavy hitting infantry with the white lions. The Loremaster will add some punch, especially against bunkers. I Toyed with many different lists, including combined arms with both SH bus and White Lions, All out Monstermash with three frosties and BSB on Griffon, and a more traditional Cavbus, but i felt more comfortable with this. It is the one list i could come up with that have counters to at least most of the normal worst match ups in the local gaming enviroment.

Tried a very similar list against empire a few das ago, and got incredibly unlucky and ended up being tabled. A short battle report:

opponents list:
Arch Lector Enchanted Shield Heavy Amour Crown of Command
Wizard Lord Light Level 4 Sceptre of Stability
Battle Wizard Light Level 1 scroll
Battle Wizard Light Level 1 ironcurse icon
Battle Wizard Light Level 1
Captain of the Empire Standard of Discipline Full Plate Armor; Shield
Witch Hunter Brace of pistols
Witch Hunter Brace of pistols
Halberdiers FCG 46+23Halberds+12Archers
Demigryph Knights 5 mus
Great Cannon
Steam Tank

T1 He shoots away 2 RBT's with cannons and banisment on a third sees that one gone. Steam tank moves up. My T1 Boosted Searing doom IF, I get 8 hits, roll 6 1's.. Remaining RBT hits flank on Chicken Knights but fail to wound. T2 Steam Tank moves up more.

I fail to cast searing doom. White Lions are trapped between Impassable, Stank, Chicken Knights and Halberds ( I messed up deployment slightly and he moved max up to capitalise.

He charges White Lions, Kills a bunch, i get lucky and kills the steam tank in my T3. But he charges archers with KNights ( i sent out the cheapest mage to block them as all my reavers had eaten banishments. But then i brainfarts, kill one knight with my last remaining RBT (Who took 3 cannon balls to the face and actually survived the game..) and he runs around the mage. Halberd detachment into flank of lions ( I had to choose between having Knights and big halberds in front and Detachement in flank, OR Knights in Rear, Halberds in flank and detachment in front when reforming from the Stank combat.) He rolls boxcars for PD and gets off Speed of Light, Phas protection and Bironas timewarp on the detachment who kills WL's in droves. With Hatred from the Halberd Unit thanks to the detachment special rule, WS10 S4 A2.. I hold thanks to stubborn, and survives to his T5 where he charges in with knights (who took out archers after i rolled miserably, and failed to reform, and rolled Snakeeyes in my T4 MP.. It ended with 0-20, with me only taking out a couple wizards and a Withc hunter + Stank, and i only had the invincible RBT left..

Poor deployment ruined much for me, and the dice gods heavilly favoured my opponent, (Only the Cannon VS RBT went my way basically.)

Big loss aside, i feel confident going into the tournement. I will try to take notes and Pictures (Have to try and remember it this time..) And post more detailed Battlereps after the tournement on Sunday.
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hansleonard
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Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#12 Post by hansleonard »

Quick update after the first day. Im at 37/60 points after the first three games. The battle reports will be posted tomorrow after the last game and after i get the time to write them..

So far: 20-0 In mirror match against HE pretty similar lists.
7-13 against semi-shooty Lizardmen with Templeguard+Slann bus.
10-10 Against the excact same empire list i faced on Wednesday, but a different player.
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Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#13 Post by Ferny »

Sounds like it's going OK :)
The 9th Age: Alumni

Former Roles: Advisory Board, HR, Moderator and Highborn Elves Army Support
hansleonard
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:30 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#14 Post by hansleonard »

Time for reports!

Battle 1:
High Elf Mirror Match-up.

My list:
Loremaster - Book of Hoeth, Shield of Merwyrm, Sword of Anti-Heroes - 330
Mage - LVL 2, Lore of High Magic, Dispel Scroll - 145
Mage - LVL 2 Lore of Heavens, Ironcurse Icon, Sceptre of Stability - 140
Noble - BSB, Dragon Armour, Halberd, Potion of Strength, Reaver Bow - 152
30 Archers - Full Command
5 Reavers, Bows, Musician - 95
5 Reavers, Bows - 85
28 White Lions, Full Command, BOTWD
4x RBT

His list:
LVL 4 Archmage, Shadow
Loremaster
Noble, BSB, Heavy Armour, Reaver Bow
30 Archers Full Command
2x 5 Reavers, Bows, Musician
5 Silver Helms, Shields
30 White Lions, FCG, BOTWD
2x RBT

Yup, that's two Lord mages with absolutelly no magic items whatsoever.. I was leading in the shooting duel, and somewhat in the dispel department as well. I rolled Iceshard and Harmonic on Heavens, Hand of Glory and Drain Magic on High.
He rolls Enfeebling foe, The Withering and double Pendulum. He chooses to keep pendulum, and for his free spell he goes for Pit of Shades.
I deploy centrally, Loremaster+BSB in White Lions, both level two in archers. with Reavers on both flanks. Spreading RBT's on my backline. Two of them on a hill in my deployment zone. He deploys white lions in the centre, archers on his far right Bolt throwers one on each flank. Reavers on both flanks and silver helms on his right.
Both of us vanguard offensivelly with reavers. I snatch turn one.

Forgot to take picture of deployment.

I move left flank reavers max forwards, bypassing both SH and his Reavers. Right flank reavers move back a bit. White lions move a bit forwards to get into range with a few spells.
Magic is 2v1, I Channel Twice. i Cast hand of glory on Archers which he fails to dispel, Miasma on his archers leaving them with BS1, and finally a fireball on reavers, only gets one wound through.
Shooting starts with killing 4 reavers on my left flank. The last one flees. The other Reaver unit takes 2 wounds, they flee as well. I kill a Silver helm and start pummeling his white lions, kiling a few.
End of my Turn 1:
Image

His turn 1: He rallies both Reaver units. Silver helms turns to face my reavers. White lions move a little bit forwards, Archers move a few inches forward. Magic is 4v2 he channels one. He casts 2d6 Fireball on my archers which i dispel. he then fails to cast a boosted burning gaze on the archers.
Shooting kills one white lion, not much else.
End of his T2:
Image

My T2:
Reavers charge Bolt Thrower. It's hard to see on the picture but Due to the impassable terrain in the centre his white lion unit cannot wheel towards me if he declares a charge because they will hit the terrain piece. I therefore moves white lions up to face his archers. Right flank reavers move up behind white lions for cover and to prepare for blocking his white lions if he decides to go after my archers.
Magic is 5v3. I Cast iceshard on his archers, then a 2d6 Fireball which he dispells. Shooting kills a bunch of white lions. One RBT tries a flanking single bolt on his SH, but fails to hit. Reavers take one wound of his RBT with none in return. He is outside both BSB and General and lose by 2. He runs and i overruns towards his next RBT.
End of my T2:
Image

His T2:
The one remaining reaver on his right flank moves towards my rbts. SH fails swift reform and are stuck in place. His White Lions move a few inches to the right, still having the problem of the Impassable if he wants to charge my WL. Magic is 5v2, he channels one. I think he manages to get a fireball through that kills a couple archers. Shooting kills one reaver and a few lions.
End of his T2:
Image

My T3:
During this tournement there was a few "Challenges" like being the first player to get a mage to dimensional cascade himself into a hole, or making a "Heroic Charge" which was to make a charge with 10 or more on 2D6 when you actually need it to reach. The first person to complete a challenge like this got a specially designed template set that was really cool looking. I was 15 Inches away from his archers and without any risk of being flanked by his WL's, i declare the charge, and fail, moving a few inches forward instead. Reavers move towards his remaining RBT. Magic is 5v3, I Channel twice. I cast Hand of glory on Archers, Iceshard on His archers and a fireball which he dispells on his archers. Shooting kills his last remaining reaver on my left flank. I open fire with archers and two RBT's on his white Lions killing 10 or 11. Now that they are pretty much neutralised i shoot his archers with RBT, Reaver bow and Reavers, killing just enough to make him panic (The last shots came from RBT.) He fails due to iceshard and runs. still on the table though.
End of my T3:
Image

His T3:
No charges. His archers fails to rally again thanks to iceshard. his BSB is out of range and so he flees of the table. Archmage was in the unit as well. His reavers in the corner panics when the archers run off the table and follows them on the trip back home. White lions turn to face my WL's.
Magic kills a few reavers in the central unit, WS miasma on White lions goes off, he rolls a 1 on his following D3 roll. Shooting kills two more reavers on the other unit, both are down to two now.
End of his T3:
Image

My T4:
WL's Charge his WL's, Reavers charge RBT. White Lions fail to roll the 8 neccessary to get into combat. Reavers make their charge. Magic: I cast iceshard and boosted miasma on his WL's. i think he dispells miasma. Shooting kills more White Lions. Only four+ characters left. And his remaining SH are killed by two RBT's + Reavers. In combat The Reavers kill one crewman, the horses killing the last one. I reform towards his WL's.
End of T4:
Image

His T4:
He moves a few inches back with his white lions. Magic is 12V6. I think he gets of iceshard on my WL's and then IF's Fireball on archers. Kills a few. Miscast result is all mages take a strength 6 hit, he takes a wound. Shooting is virtually non excistent at this point.
End of his T4:
Image

My T5:
I try to charge his Wl with my own again, and fails again. In the magic phase i cast movement miasma on him which he lets through, and don't cast any more spells not wanting to risk a miscast when i don't really need to cast any more spells. Shooting kills all but one of his WL's and his BSB. Loremaster is left with one wound.
End of my T5:
Image

After this i forgot to take more pictures, but here's what happens. He fails to cast anything in his phase and stands still.
In my last turn i charge him with white lions. There's another "Challenge" that is to kill an enemy character in a challenge with a champion. Seeing as his Loremaster only has one wound left, and no save, i try to challenge. In the magic phase i got through a boosted miasma on him that left him with WS3 + Wildform and Earthblood on my own unit.
He fails to kill my campion in the challenge. I manage to hit with both attacks, but fails both to wound rolls! My BSB kills the last remaining white lion. He breaks, runs 11 inches, manages to rally and the game is over.

Counting up the points, i had taken 1919 points from him losing 0 in return. a 20-0 victory!
I knew pretty early on that this would become a massacre in my favour. Got pretty annoyed when his Loremaster survived the game. There's not really much to say as most of what i had to do was really straight forward all the way. He made a huge amount of mistakes, and i capitalised on each and every one of them.
It was a nice way to start the tournement, getting time to wake up properly and prepare myself for the much tougher opponents i would face later in the day.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
hansleonard
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:30 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#15 Post by hansleonard »

Game two:
Semi-shooty lizardmen, with Slann and templeguards.

My list:
Loremaster - Book of Hoeth, Shield of Merwyrm, Sword of Anti-Heroes - 330
Mage - LVL 2, Lore of High Magic, Dispel Scroll - 145
Mage - LVL 2 Lore of Heavens, Ironcurse Icon, Sceptre of Stability - 140
Noble - BSB, Dragon Armour, Halberd, Potion of Strength, Reaver Bow - 152
30 Archers - Full Command
5 Reavers, Bows, Musician - 95
5 Reavers, Bows - 85
28 White Lions, Full Command, BOTWD 444
4x RBT 280

His list:
Loremaster slann, Channels 3dice, reroll failed dispel attempts.
Skink priest heavens with scroll
Saurus hero on cold one, 1+ rerollable
Saurus Hero on cold one 1+ 4++
4x10 skirmish skinks
2x20 normal skinks all with javelins and shields
6 Chameleon skinks
30 ish Temple guard with Standard of Discipline.


This would be far tougher than the last game. I almost allways play against this guy in tournements. and i have allways lost 0-20.. He usually place in the top 3 in every local tournement, and won the Swedish Championship last year. Lots of shots, and the templeguards can be really tough, especially if they gets boosted a bit with magic. His Slann has all signatures just as my loremaster. I have to play defensivelly, trusting magic and shooting to take a toll on his shooters before they do too much damage, and try to avoid a combat with his temple guards untill they are depleted a bit.
I roll Fiery Convocation and soulquench on high mage. Comet and Iceshard on heavens. His skink priest takes Iceshard.

I deploy white lions and Archers on my left flank, White Lions behind a small hill. All characters in the WL's. Reavers and Bolt throwers are scattered all along the back lines. His Templeguards deploy straight across from Archers. Skinks deploy on both sides of templeguards, both normal skinks in the middle with Skirmishers in front. Two skirmishes on his right. Chameleon skinks in a forest on his half.
I snatch T1 once again.
Deployment:
Image

HE T1:
White Lions move a bit forward to get within range for a few spells. Archers move a bit as well. Reavers moves defensivelly. Magis is 9V6. He dispells Shems burning Gaze, 2D6 Fireball goes through on a unit of skinks, killing 7. He passes panic due to slann being within range. He fails to dispel comet, i place it in front of his battleline. I also gets of a movement miasma on the templeguards, reducing their movement by 2. Shooting kills two skinks from the skink unit on my far left. RBT's, Reavers and archers combine to kill a few more skinks from different units. and a couple of Templeguards.
End of HE T1:
Image

LZ T1:
He moves forwards with everything. The Templeguard reforms to get as far away from the comet as possible with their limited movement. In the magic phase the comet strikes killing a few skinks and templeguards. It's 9V6. He casts a 3D6 Fireball on my white lions (He forgot that i had BOTWD.) and kills one after saves. Nothing more happens i think. Shooting does nothing since most units are out of range. Chameleon skinks fail to wound a RBT.
End of LZ T1:
Image

HE T2:
I stand still with everything except right flank reavers who moves around his Chameleon skinks. Magic is 6V4 i manage to get a fireball off on a skink unit, but only kills two. I try fiery convocation on his TG, but fail to cast it with 5D6. I do next to nothing in shooting as i fail pretty much all my to hit rolls, and the few times i hit i fail to wound, even on two's from the RBT's. I manage to kill a few skinks, and reduce the chameleon skinks to 2.
End of HE T2: (I took the picture a little late, so he had allready moved up some of his skinks)
Image

LZ T2:
Central Skirmish skinks continue to move up towards my RBT's. One normal skink unit goes toward my right flank reavers. Slann jumps to the other unit who moves toward my archers. TG move up as well. One Saurus hero is in the Skink unit with the slann, the other runs behind a hill, in sight of my archers, but out of sight for a potential charge from WL's. Magic and shooting kills two RBT's, Left flank reavers lose three models and runs, luckilly still on the table. He kills one reaver from the right flank unit.
End of LZ T2:
Image

HE T3:
I rally Reavers. Reforms archers and move them a bit back. Right reaver unit moves down to try and take out the last chameleon skinks. Magic is 8v5. I cast comet with 4 dice to try and draw out some of his dispel dice. He lets it through, i cast wildform on the archers and he fails to dispel. We talked about the comet after the magic phase was over. We both agreed that it was not really important to dispel as it would most likelly have no impact on the game, same for wildform, not the best choices. Shooting kills more skinks, on my left flank one of the skinks panic and runs through another, panicking that too. One of those units are down to one and can only rally on snake eyes.
End of HE T3:
Image

LZ T3:
He charges Archers with both of his saurus heroes, i stand and shoot against the one with 4++ and does no damage. Both of his fleeing skink units rallies, the rest of them move a bit more up. Encircling me even more. Magic is 3v2, The comet does not arrive, instead a token is added to it. I don't remember what he casts, but i dispel it using sceptre of stability. Shooting fails killing my RBT's, but my right flank reavers are panicked off the table. I Challenge with my champ, he accept withone of his sauruses. The cold one kills the champion, the other saurus kills a few, but i'm steadfast and hold.
End of LZ T3:
Image

HE T4:
I counter charge his Saurus Heroes with WL's after drinking potion of strength with my BSB. Reavers moves up to the flank of the TG. In the magic Phase the comet comes down, we still think that it won't really do anything. Then i roll 10 on the range. We measure, the comet hits: His Skinks keeping the Slann safe, TG, One of his large skink units, Bot of his Saurus Heroes, WL's and Archers. It kills: 6 TG, 11 Skinks from the large unit, all but one of the slann protection skinks, wounds the slann, kills one WL, 5 Archers, Kills the Saurus with 4++ and takes a wound from the other one! Suddenly the tables are turned. Up to this point this looked lika it would be a really bad loss for me, suddenly we're back at square one, and i can actually get a victory here if i play my cards right, but first i have to kill the last saurus hero.
Magic is 5v4 I cast Movement miasma on his TG, He scrolls Spirit Leech on Slann. Shooting fails to do anything unfortunatelly, i had hoped to remove at least one of the severelly depleted skink units. In combat he Challenges and i accept with BSB. I only hit once even with reroll, but i manages to wound. With S8 he only have 6+ AS, and he fails it. I reform my lions to face his TG, Archers face the Skink Onslaught.
End of HE T4:
Image

LZ T4:
He thinks for a long time. Should he charge my WL's with TG, or play it safe and turn tail and flee. He opts for the latter, swift reforming to face away from WL's and moves a few inches. Skinks Move a bit up, trying to gang up un my remaining RBT's. Slann leaves the lone skink and stands alone in the open. Magic is 9v7, He casts boosted fireball on Archers which i fail to dispel. it kills a bunch. Spirit leech on RBT fails to do anything. He then casts movement miasma on WL's lowering their movement by 1. Shooting finally kills off the last two RBT's.
End of LZ T4:
Image

HE T5: I fail to see an amazing opportunity to take out his TG. If i charge with Reavers first he have to consider if he can run away with them, since i'm pretty close to him it could be dangerous. If he holds, he runs the risk of getting WL's in the rear which is even worse. I, however, completelly fails to see this opportunity, and turns my WL's towards his lonelly slann, hoping to shoot and magic him to death instead. This is a huge mistake on my part. Magic is 2V1 and i fail to do anything. SHooting doesn't do anything either. It is at this point my opponent explains the opportunity i actually had.
End of HE T5:
Image

LZ T5:
TG turns around and moves towards WL. Skinks move to further encircle my army, Slann jumps into the last remaining large Skink unit. Magic is 6v6, He targets archers with magic, but fails to do much, he kills a few. SHooting kills some more leaving me with only 3 left, they fail panic test and runs away, not off the table yet. The remaining reavers are shot down.
End of LZ T5:
Image

HE T6:
I reform WL's towards TG. Archers fail to rally and flees off the table. Magic is 6v4 I get Wildform on WL, He dispells Earthblood and miasma. Reaver bow kills a TG.
End of HE T6:
Image

LZ T6:
TG, Chameleon skinks and skirmish skinks charge WL in Front, rear and flank respectivelly. Magic is 7v6, I scroll iceshard, but fail to dispell boosted Miasma. it lowers everything by 2. Nothing to shoot at, stragiht to combat. Both Loremaster and BSB fails to kill anything. Skinks kill one WL, I fail to hit and wound any skinks, but kill 5 ish TG. He kills bot lvl 2 mages, fails to hit Loremaster, and he gets two wounding hits on BSB. The armour is of no use due to S5 AP, But the 6+ Ward save from Dragon armour kicks in and saves one wound. I roll break test on stubborn, fails the first time, but thanks to BSB i stand!
End of LZ T6:
Image

Counting up the points he is 581 points ahead, which means it's a 7-13 loss for HE.

Had i seen the opportunity to take on the TG the game would have been quite different. Even if he had stood still, and if i failed the charge, it would still be one more turn for me to try and get away, and if i had gotten in combat in his rear he would likelly have broken, saving me the points for my mages, ang gaining 481 points extra from his TG, meaning the game would have been a small win for me instead of the opposite. I'm still pretty happy with the result, even though i lost. This is actually the first time i've ever taken any points from this player in a tournement ever. I fell playing defensivelly was the best option in this game, going offensivelly would have left me facing double flees all game long, getting lined up for a horrible combocharge. The shooting did a little under par, but then again, on average, my RBT's should have been all gone two turns earlier than they actually did. I feel like that if my shooting had performed just a tiny bit better i would have at least saved one or two VP's. Maybe even saving the draw.
My next opponent would be Empire, The excact same list i faced in my practie game before the tournement.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
hansleonard
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:30 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#16 Post by hansleonard »

Game 3 VS Empire

My list:
Loremaster - Book of Hoeth, Shield of Merwyrm, Sword of Anti-Heroes - 330
Mage - LVL 2, Lore of High Magic, Dispel Scroll - 145
Mage - LVL 2 Lore of Heavens, Ironcurse Icon, Sceptre of Stability - 140
Noble - BSB, Dragon Armour, Halberd, Potion of Strength, Reaver Bow - 152
30 Archers - Full Command
5 Reavers, Bows, Musician - 95
5 Reavers, Bows - 85
28 White Lions, Full Command, BOTWD 444
4x RBT 280

His list:
Arch Lector Enchanted Shield Heavy Amour Crown of Command
Wizard Lord Light Level 4 Sceptre of Stability
Battle Wizard Light Level 1 m/scroll
Battle Wizard Light Level 1 m/ironcurse icon
Battle Wizard Light Level 1
Captain of the Empire Standard of Discipline Full Plate Armor; Shield
Witch Hunter Brace of pistols
Witch Hunter Brace of pistols
Halberdiers FCG 46+23Halberds+12Archers
Demigryph Knights 5 musiker
Great Cannon
Steam Tank

In this tournement there was two guys who had an internal challenge. Compete with the excact same list, and see who would place highest. I faced one of them last wednesday, 3 days before the tournement and got tabled (granted i was incredibly unlucky, but still.. Now, for match 3 of the tournement i met the other player.
Last game i placed my RBT's poorly, and focused too much on the demigriffs, letting the STank come up un me too quickly, i also failed to wound at all (Seriously, IF on Boosted Searing Doom, 9 Hits, TWO wounds...) I had two priorities this game. Firstly: Incapasitate the Steam Tank, Just shearing off 3 Wounds means that it suddenly have a 50% chance to missfire when generating steam points. Make sure Chicken Knights don't get to my archers untill they are reduced, or i get boosted up on spells so that i can handle it untill reinforcements arrive.

I rolled up Arcane unforging and Drain Magic for High, and Thunderbolt+Iceshard on Heavens.
He basically have the entire lore of Light. I think his lvl 4 had Banishment, Bironas, Shems and Speed of light.
I had a House in my table half, so i deployed around that, in a worst case scenario, i could pop in there with my White Lions or Archers depending on the scenario, and negate most of the damage that could be done against me. Reavers and RBT's were also deployed in the centre there was a wide open board. All characters in white Lions.

He deployed everything in the opposite corners, i Vanguarded defensivelly, his Witch hunters both declared Loremaster for Re-Roll to wound/shooting thing.
He won the roll off.

End of Deployment: (Vanguard moves not made yet)
Image

EMP T1:
He moves up slightly. Shooting and magic combines to kill one RBT.
End of Empire T1:
Image

HE T1:
Archers are not within range of anything since he didn't advance at all, so i march them around the house. The rest moves a bit up with Reavers getting behind WL's for cover (not that they would really need any..)
Magic is 10V6. i cast movement miasma and iceshard on Demigryphs which he let's through, and then i fail to cast boosted Searing doom.
Shooting takes three wounds of stank with RBT's.
End of HE T1:
Image

EMP T2:
He continues to stand still. Magic is 2V1, He tries for a Phas protection on Stank, but i dispel with Sceptre of Stability. Shooting does nothing (Either this turn or the next his cannon missfires and is removed from play.) Not much else happens.
End of EMP T2:
Image

HE T2:
I had no rush to move against him yet so i stood still. Magic fails to cast searing doom yet again. Shooting combines to take a wound or two from the steam tank again. I mostly rolled 1s when rolling the D3 to see how many wounds my single bolts did to the steam tank.. I think archers managed a single wound against Demigryphs as well.
I didn't take a picture of my T2 since nothing had happened.

EMP T3:
He finally moves up a little with his Demigryphs. The stank moves slightly towards me. In the magic phase he manages to get through both timewarp and Phas protection on the steam tank. Shooting again fails to do anything. My RBT's seems to be impervious to mostly anything this tournement.
End of Empire T3:


HE T3:
I Shuffle slightly backwards. Magic is 7v4. I cast movement miasma on gryphs which he dispells, i then IF Searing Doom. Rolls 6 hits, 3 wounds. Miscast removes both Magic levels from the loremaster.
Shooting takes one more wound from his steam tank, then kills two demigryphs outright. He passes panic.
End of HE T3:
Image

EMP T4:
His steam tank missfires and loses all steam points. His army moves up a bit. Demigryphs move to engage Archers. Magic is 7v6 in my favour. I channeled twice! He still manages to banishment an RBT on IF, and loses a couple halberiers in the process. Shooting is non existing.
End of Empire T4:
Image

HE T4:
Archers move into the house. Reavers move to block his demigryphs. WL move to engage said gryphs next turn. Magic does next to nothing due to loremaster no longer being able to throw spells. Arcane unforging gets through as he has used the scroll earlier, but i fail to wound the stank. ( i did a quick calculation after the tournement. Out of about 90 2+ to wound rolls i needed to make to make in the tournement (Several of these being close combat with WL's) i failed roughly 60%. That's just sad..) Shooting takes another wound off the steam tank and one wound on the gryphs.
End of HE T4:
Image

Empire T5:
He charges Reavers. I hold. Steam tank again misfires and lose all steam points. It only has 3 wounds left, so he have 1/6 of a chance to avoid missfire. The rest of his army moves up a bit. shooting now in range of a RBT. Magic and shooting does nothing however Even with 11V6 he fails to cast anything. Demis kill reavers in CC and reforms to face WL's.
End of Empire T5:
Image

HE T5:
White Lions declare a charge against demi's who flee. My remaining reavers are unable to declare a charge to make them flee more. He looses a wound due to dangerous terrain in the forest. WL's redirects towards Steam Tank, but fails to get there. No matter. Magic and shooting takes all but one wound from the steam tank.
End of HE T5:
Image

The rest of the game lasts about 5 minutes. He rallies Demi's fail to cast anything in the magic phase. and his shooting does nothing.
In my last turn archers leave the house, heavens mage turns toward demi's while WL's stand still. I drink Potion of strength. Magic starts off good with 10V8 I channel twice, he channel 3 times.. He lets through iceshard on demis, i then try to cast thunderbolt on them, gets IF, takes one wound, not enough to cause panick, lose the remaining dice. I should have tried for arcane unforging on the stank instead, but i focused too much on trying to get both.. Shooting sees me hit with both RBT's but fail to wound with both. Reaver bow manages to hit only once on 2+, manages to wound, but he passes his 6+ AS. Reavers and archers manages to kill a demi, enough for him to take a panic test, but he passes despite having -1 LD from iceshard.

Counting up points he is 115 points ahead which means a draw.

I was really annoyed after this game. I played way too defensivelly, and the number of 2+ rolls i failed is just incredible. This combined with my inability to roll anything higher than 2's on my D3 rolls meant that the stank survived the entire game. I wounded the stank 5 times with RBT's 4 of them only did one wound with the last taking two. And the IF searing doom only taking three wounds. I feel like i overestimated this list because of the game i played three days prior to the tournement, and as a result i was a bit too cautious. Especially when i had reduced the steam tank to 3 wounds, and killed two demis and taken a wound off the other. I could have let the archers deal with them and advanced fully on the steam tank. killing it in close combat and tried to take out some of his characters with WL's in the last two turns of the game.

Next game would be against a fast moving WoC army with Skullcrushers, Chariots, Demon Prince, Chimera and BSB on demonic mount. I was not looking forward to it..
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
hansleonard
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:30 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Hans' Elves: A combined Armyblog for Woodies and HElves

#17 Post by hansleonard »

Game 4 Against WoC.

My list:
Loremaster - Book of Hoeth, Shield of Merwyrm, Sword of Anti-Heroes - 330
Mage - LVL 2, Lore of High Magic, Dispel Scroll - 145
Mage - LVL 2 Lore of Heavens, Ironcurse Icon, Sceptre of Stability - 140
Noble - BSB, Dragon Armour, Halberd, Potion of Strength, Reaver Bow - 152
30 Archers - Full Command
5 Reavers, Bows, Musician - 95
5 Reavers, Bows - 85
28 White Lions, Full Command, BOTWD 444
4x RBT 280

His List:
Daemon prince lvl 4 death, fly, 4++
bsb demonic mount, tzeench, Third eye, dragonbane gem 2+ as
4 Chariots
Chimerae regen
2x3 Skullcrushers

I had dreaded facing this kind of list in the tournement for weeks. He have plenty of stuff that tear my Lions to shreds. And skullcrushers eat archers for breakfast. And there's just no real way for me to block him off either. With my limited amount of redirectors and his low frontage. The only thing i can possible blockcompletelly is his skullcrushers, and they aren't the biggest problem in this list. Demon prince and crushers i can let engage my bus, but they will probably just hold me for a while untill chariots and chimera comes in to finish me off.
After placing the terrain i noticed one of the sides had a house right outside of deployment, and luckilly i won the roll off for choosing sides. I chose the one with a house and deployed most of my army around that. There was also a hill nearby in my deployment where i placed archers. RBT's were deployed along my backlines, scattered so that i had multiple firing angles, and so that there would be harder for him to get all of them.
He deployed everything in the centre. Chimera, DP and one chariot on his left, Crushers in the middle and the remaining chariots on the right.

I rolled Hand of Glory and Walk between worlds + Iceshard and curse of midnight wind.
He rolled Doom and Darknes, Purple Sun, Spirit Leech and Soulblight.

I won the roll off to see who started and off we go.
Forgot to take a deployment picture yet again..

HE T1:
I move lions a bit up to get within spell range.
Magic is 10v5. I cast Spirit Leech on DP, which he dispells, Searing doom on Chariot, which takes one wound, then i fail a 2d6 Fireball. Manages hand of glory on archers.
Shooting takes a few wounds off a couple of chariots.
End of HE T1:
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WoC T1:
He moves everything up. Most of his army towards the centre, but the Chimera lines up for a charge next turn while hiding from RBT's.
Magic is 1v3. He casts Doom and Darkness on WL's which i fail to dispel.
End of WoC T1:
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HE T2:
I move Lions into the house. Archers moves slightly back, but remain on the hill. Reavers reposition.
Magic is 6v4. I cast searing doom on crushers, he fails to dispel. I use remaining dice to cast fireball on the chimera, forgetting that Doom and Darkness is still in play. Shooting takes more wounds off crushers and chariots, still no kills, and the chimera keeps saving shots from the reaver bow.
End of HE T2:
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WoC T2:
Depleted crushers try a charge on archers, Chimera declares against WL, i pass the "Fear" test even with Doom and Darkness in play. Luckilly for me he fails both charges. Had he made that chimera charge into the house i would have been completelly screwed next turn as i would likelly panic from losing that combat, and he had prepared several horrible charges with chariots next turn if that happened. the rest of his army moves forward. The other crusher unit moving fast towards one of my RBT's.
He kills an RBT with Spirit Leech in the magic phase. I dispel doom and darknes.
End of WoC T2:
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HE T3:
I reposition reavers againarchers swift reform and gets out of charge arches for both crusher units, but leave a small gap open so his BSB can see them, hoping that the temptation to get blood on his hands is so great he charges. In the magic phase i fail to do much, but i manage to take a wound off his chimera finally. Shooting kills two chariots.
End of HE T3:
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WoC T3:
Chimera charges house, crushers charge rbt. Chimera manages his charge, but the crushers fail their 5+ charge. BSB takes the bait and charges archers. I stand and shoot, but fail to wound. I fail to dispel Soulblight in the magic phase, but dispells Doom and Darkness, and scroll purple sun. In CC the chimera kills a bunch of lions, i take all but two wounds in return. I hold. In the Archers vs BSB combat he have to challenge and i accept. My champ fails to wound him, in return his beast slays him. He have +3 from charge, BSB and kill. I have +4 from ranks and banner. He looses by one, fails his LD 8 with rerolls and is destroyed. Free points for me, yay!
(I forot to take picture here sorry)

HE T4:
Left flank reavers continue to move around him. Right flank reavers stand still to shoot at chimera. Magic is 4v3 and does nothing. Shooting kills off the depleted crushers, and the chimera ( used potion of strength this turn) i also manage to take a wound off the other crushers.
End of HE T4:
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WoC T4:
DP charge archers, Crushers charge RBT and one of his remaining chariot tries for a 20" inch charge agains right reavers. All charges hit home. Magic does nothing. CC kills reavers and RBT. Archers hold.
End of WoC T4:
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HE T5:
At this point i can safelly leave the house and try to move to engage the DP in T6, but i'm afraid of loosing too much on static combat res, and not be able to kill him, so i stay put. Remaining reavers continue to dance around him. Magic sees me get both Curse of midnight wind and Iceshard on DP. Shooting takes all but one wound off both his remaining chariots. In combat he only kills two archers. I win but he passes his break test.
End of HE T5:
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WoC T5:
He gets back on the table with Crushers and turns them towards archers flank. Chariots move to try and get in as much cover from shooting as possible. In combat he kills a few more archers, i pass break test.

I forgot to take pictures in the last three game turns

In my T6 i kill both remaining chariots. Shooting kills a crusher meaning that i will still be steadfast even if i'm down to one rank. In close combat he kills a bunch more archers now that he doesn't have any debuffs on him anymore, and in his last turn crushers hit home and kills off every last archer.

Counting up points i have taken 1365 points from him. He only have DP and crushers left on the table. He manages to take archers, one unit of reavers and two RBT's, which counts up to 590 points. I'm 775 points ahead which means a 15-5 win for the HE! If i had just managed to get off one more debuff on his DP in my last turn my archers might have survived, giving me a 16-4 instead, especially if the last reaver unit had survived the game. But alas that didn't happen.

I'm really pleased with this game. Shooting was good, and with my lions in the house i negated most of his most dangerous weapons against them. I got incredibly lucky on a few occasions. He failing the charge against them in his T2. BSB charging archers and dying. His crushers failing to reach my RBT on their first charge meant that i could kill his other crushers, which in turn meant that his DP went into the archer combat without aid untill the very last turn. If that hadn't happened they would have been dead earlier and he could have taken out at least one more RBT. He was only 25 points away from a 14-6 result.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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