Double trouble, the brothers Master

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oreaper
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Double trouble, the brothers Master

#1 Post by oreaper »

So I have been toying around with the loremaster (which i love), but i am having trouble getting that much needed spell of at a critical time. Being that he is a level 2 average rolls have netted me just above casting value for much spells which my opponent can prioritize in dispelling. This leaves me with the opportunity to get 1 maaaaaaaaaaybe 2 sub optimum spells of (dice dependent). I started going banner bunker so i could chuck dice at the needed spell to some success, but then found that the cascade risk did not justify the spell i was getting, granted a well placed wyssans or iceshard can really flip the balance of a combat. This has brought me to a place where I am now. Double loremasters... Lawrence and Lorenzo Master the brothers of disaster. Having 2 tool box casters has ensured me that I get the exact spell i need when i need it (or pulls a scroll early). The goal is to streamline a 2400 list for a summer 2400 tourney that is ETC comp banded. The list i have now is rocking around a 14 so it’s pretty soft. I hope to chronicle my progress and adjustments. Any advise, thoughts, and comments are welcome. This list at present is as follows:

Lawrence de Master- Arm of SS/earth rod

Lorenzo de Master- fencer blades/shadow armor/ gold crown

Tolken Rerolls- bsb/Arm of Cal/gw

9 Silver helms- full com

6 silver helms

5 reavers

24 spears- full command/banner of disp

3 x 1 tirinoc

13 swordmasters- full command/banner of flame

8 shadow warriors- champ

3 x bolt throwers

2 x eagle

6 sisters of avelorn

battle reoptrs/ gaming experience to follow
oreaper
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#2 Post by oreaper »

had a trial run with the list against a skaven regular that was trying a castle build. had a nice line setup across the board (we were just doing std meeting engagement and throwing armies at each other. Lawernce went with spear, Lorenzo with the shadow warriors and Tolken reroll with the Swormasters. Not a lot to tell from the report as the sneaky elves got a double iceshard off on the bunker (not on a bell which as we discussed later was prob what he will be doing going forward). then some magic missle aned reg shooting later the General seer and a good chunk of the rest went skittering of the board. It was actually a pretty lucky turn of events and my friend lost heart after that (understandably). Hellpit aint nothing after the sisters tag it. He did manage to tzwoomph my cav unit with a pair of lightning cannons. But after that Lorenzo had his way with the vermin machines. A devastating victory to the elves. I felt kinda bad though, it was one of those games that after a huge turn its just kinda going through the motions, i appreciated my bud sticking through till the end though.

Also i just learned that all this prep must be yet again adjusted as the tourney i was building towards is now 2500 and has some significant adjustments to comp bands. At a 14.7 im on the later part of the middle grouping so i can either make some tweeks to really soften it up, or tweak to lower the score (i got like comp points to play with!).

Additions im thinking of:
Putting the BsB on a eagle and giving the reaver bow (plus def equip of course)
Botfw on swordmaters where Lawrence wil reside (It is soooo hard not to)
Adjt banner on spears to gleaming pendant

These changes drop me a couple of points but def add some options plus if i need a spell i can get it withought too much penalty

Another option i have is to swap out some chariots and such to make room for a frostie, i dont know
, Lemme know of any thought/opinions Thanks!!
oreaper
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#3 Post by oreaper »

Ok so i have been back and forth with the edition of the 100 points to the list (doesnt seem like a lot but it sure did change the dynamic.

Loremaster w/Armour of silvered steel/earthing rod (general)
Loremaster w/fencers blades/shadow armour/golden crown
BsB w/great eagle/reaverbow/charmed shield/potion of foolhardiness/opal amulet
9 silver helms w/shields/full command
6 silver helms w/shield
25 spearmen w/full command/gleaming pennant
5 ellyrian reavers
8 shadow warriors
13 swordmasters w/full command/banner of the world dragon
tiranoc chariot
tiranoc chariot
tiranoc chariot
6 sisters of avelorn
eagle claw bolt thrower
eagle claw bolt thrower
eagle claw bolt thrower
great eagle
great eagle

This list is an attempt to trim the fat and bring the focus back to the original intention which is the brother casters and shooting with a final desisive stroke latter game. It comps in around 11-12 so ill def be in the mid band even if the thresholds change a little. Im excited to get some serious field time with the list. I have game night coming this tuesday and in writing this is my attempt to self commit to chronical the transition of this army. I hope to have regular reports even if they are text/pics as im still getting used to battle chron and the like. Now back to my painting....
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John Rainbow
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Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#4 Post by John Rainbow »

Interesting idea for a list. Have you thought about putting in the forbidden rod and a dispel scroll? It seems like this would be a better arcane setup than you currently have but I have no idea about the comp scores with this...

Where do you usually put the LMs? Do they need all that defensive kit? Surely the Pot.Str would be a better choice for your eagle noble as it would be dual use either for shooting or for the 1st round of a combat.
oreaper
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#5 Post by oreaper »

Thanks for the reply John :)

For the magic item choice i suppose its due to the placement of the characters that dictates the choices. The general get put in with the swordmasters for the banners protection. Hes got the earth rod b/c i need him to not die when i absolutly need to 6 dice that ONE spell (and b/c Swordmaster uses it to such wonderful effect =D> ). Thing ive found with the loremaster is that the opponent knows which spell is gunna hurt the most (or he thinks he does) and i dont want to lose my general to a miscast.

Loremaster #2 goes with the shadow warriors whos eithers scout forward for warmachine/chaff clearance, or they hangback with the rest of the line as a mobile mage bunker. In my meta, and certianly in a 100+ person tourney that im practicing for there are bound to be double cannon lists (or the eq to). I have run the pot of str which i love but when i put the bsb on a bird he tends to die with doubling up on cannon protection. Honestly i am not worried about getting him str 8 shots anyways hes just there to clear chaff/ethereal crap. I've got a game today so i hope to get a little more insight on the synergy of my units and ill report on in soon hopefully. Thanks again for you comments, i ive been following your post as well and i always find them insightfull.
oreaper
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#6 Post by oreaper »

Well had the first run of the list against a fine fellows deamon list. It was an interesting matchup with some exciting turn points. His list was as follows (to the best of my memory)

Prince of Slaneesh lvl 3/wings/ prob other stuff idk (had choir,lash,aquiensence, how ever you spell it)
herald of slaneesh on steed lvl 1 shadow (pendulum)
herald od nurgle with regen locus
herald of khorne with hatred locus
34 bloodletters
34 plaguebearers
5 beast o nurg
corn cannon
5 furys
9 seekers of slaneesh

Deployment:
We played standard battleline as we were both testing lists and wanted to just smash figs together i used my many drops to bait on my far left flank with a couple of chariots and the small helm unit in which he placed opposite his furies, letters and beasts o nurg. I dropped the swordmasters, sisters and another chariot in the middle. He countered with the plaguebearers cannon, and seekers. I knew that he only had characters left so i had free reign on where to place the rest. Put the last chariot on the far left and he placed his characters (surprise surprise) in their corresponding units and the prince hid behind the plaguebearers (personally not a place id like to be, prob smell terrible). I put the eagles down on either side of the army, reavers on the far left, bsb behind for support, and bolt throwers down in some decent fire lanes. What i was really excited about is that my 2nd loremaster and his shadow warrior buddies had plenty of room to scout into the right side of the enemy deployment zone. I vanguard my reavers up, and he his seekers close to my shadow warrior. He won the roll and went first.

Turn1:
He pushed forward with most of his stuff, kept the Dprince a little back, and parked the furys in front of the letters and beasts, maneuvered the seekers and lined up the cannon for a combo chariot/bsb shot oops! In magic he got a 4 (yay minus 1 ward ) got aqua spell on the swordmasters which I let go. And I dispelled the pendulum. In shooting the cannon hit the chariot square in the face but rolled a 1 to wound, phew. In response I charged the furys with a chariot and the small helm unit. All I had to do was kill 5 furys to overrun to the beasts to jam up his whole left flank, easy right? Other stuff shifted around, right side chariot, helms, and spears swept upon along the flank. Shadow warriors and Lorenzo skidded out of charge arch of the seekers. Fireball got dispelled on plague bearers. Free up for spirit leech on cannon and roll triple ones to cast. Shooting sees a few plague bearers drop as well as a couple of seekers, but the big winner was the bolt throwers that took down the cannon! Combat I rolled a single impact hit and found the furys were of the nurgle variety so I killed 3 popped the rest through combat res. Found out that instability doesn’t allow overrun?
Turn 2:
He charged the chariot with the plague beasts, which fled, and redirected to the brave brave silver helms (may they rest in peace). Everything else moved up quick and in a hurry (thought the letters were a bit jammed at this point ). Seekers gave up on the shadow warriors and lined up on my back line for a bolt thrower feeding frenzy. DP wasn’t in range for choir yet (thank Isha) so I dispelled aqua-sence, at let a pendulum through, which only killed 1 crew yay! He had no shooting and combat saw a whiff from the helms and they were promptly cut down by the beasts who pursued them into oblivion. Well this was the turn where I decided to go all out in combat. The spears charged the plague bearers in the front and the large helm unit and a chariot joined to the side. My swordmaster unit front charged the beast o nurgle and a chariot joined to the side. Magic saw the scouting loremaster cleared the unit of seekers with a shems (wyssans was dispelled) and shooting took the rest. My poor brave reavers parked in front of the letters to chaff them towards the left table edge. In an effort to line up a shot on the herald of I mistakenly placed the bsb outside of reroll rance for my combats (doh!) and of course his shots whiffed (-3 to shoot penalty makes this bow a meh choice on eagle imo) The bolt throwers however did what they do and cleared of the slanneeshi hearald. In combat with the plaguebearers I did one impact hit which got through and failed fear checks on my helms and chariot. My spears ended up felling 3 deamons and the plague bearers killed a couple back in response and a spearmen champ got squished by the hearald. Ended in a push. The swordmasters did what they do and did 6 wounds on the plaguebeasts and the chariot did 1 impact for 0 wounds. The beast do 1 wound to the chariot and cant get past the 2+ ward on the SM’s. I win and the beast take another 4 wounds for the trouble.
Turn 3:
He charges (and of course kills) the reavers with the letters, his prince charges in and clips the silver helms. Magic see me channel twice and I he 6 dices a choir which (thankfully doesn’t IF) and I seven dice the dispel and save my elven skin. Combat see the prince carving up some helms and the prince taking a wound from (you guessed it) an elven steed. Spear down a single plague bearer and take a few wounds in return. Everybody breaks The plaguebearers ran down the spears the DP runs down the remaining helms and they unscathed chariot makes it away by default. The swordmaster do 5 wounds to the beasts (like a boss) who whiff in return. And they the chariot does another 3! I am hoping to wipe the unit through res but he roll double 1’s and get all 3 of his f$#@ing deamons back.I try to salvage what I can, the eagle does what he does to the letters and I get into position for some nice shots. My amazing scouting loremaster continues his quest for match mvp By boosted sheming the DP to the warp AND miasma-ing the beasts. Shooting see a fair number of plagues getting taken down ( man I wish I still had some flaming shots). Combat sees me fail my ld 9 rerollable fear test and I whiff major on the beasts who do a fair number of wounds in return. I fail 4 ward saves and am broken and promptly run down (didn’t see that coming I tell you!)
Turn 4-6:
Its more like cleanup duty at this point as I am playing avoidance and he spends the next couple of turns killing bolt throwers. I do get his hearald of nurg with my bsb charge to the face. Also of note the loremaster toasted the beasts of nurgle (go figure there much easier to toast with spells/shooting than combat).
oreaper
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Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#7 Post by oreaper »

Thoughts on the game were that the loremaster is boss, but 2 is a little redundant. In theory there are a lot of combos that could be really nasty but id never get off the spells with just 2 lvl 2's. I believe the loremaster has all the tools needed to swing the balltle but just for 1 spell so 300+ points for a second one may need re-invested. The reaver bow on a eagle bsb seemed wastefull, the penalties on shooting and the limited mobility (only moving 10 if i wanna shoot) really made this a mediocer at many things unit.
My charges were by and large poor choices. I have learned that deamons must be anniliated with overwhelming force and completely destroyed not fought piecemeal or you can lose everything. Having the ability to strip regen with shooting was great but then the sisters diappeared and were much missed. i might need a 2nd unit or 1 larger unit idk. Oh well back to the drawing board :)
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John Rainbow
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Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#8 Post by John Rainbow »

oreaper wrote:For the magic item choice i suppose its due to the placement of the characters that dictates the choices. The general get put in with the swordmasters for the banners protection. Hes got the earth rod b/c i need him to not die when i absolutly need to 6 dice that ONE spell (and b/c Swordmaster uses it to such wonderful effect =D> ).
But isn't the earthing rod a redundant choice here really as you can avoid most of the miscast chart with BotWD. Is it worth the arcane slot for the few rolls that really hurt?
oreaper
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#9 Post by oreaper »

John Rainbow wrote:
oreaper wrote:For the magic item choice i suppose its due to the placement of the characters that dictates the choices. The general get put in with the swordmasters for the banners protection. Hes got the earth rod b/c i need him to not die when i absolutly need to 6 dice that ONE spell (and b/c Swordmaster uses it to such wonderful effect =D> ).
But isn't the earthing rod a redundant choice here really as you can avoid most of the miscast chart with BotWD. Is it worth the arcane slot for the few rolls that really hurt?
Yes but this is the kind of redundancy that im ok with, it is 25 points to not cascade my general when i go big on a spell, might be a lil over protective but im ok with that. As to the mage himself, sometimes in combat a miscast is ok as my unit will be fine but the enemy likely not so it can be used as an offensive reroll as well. I've just had too many times where my mage has vanished after getting just a few wounds from a happenstance miscast. Thanks for the responce John, hopefully ill have some illistrations for my lastest report after i get battle chronicler figured out :)
Nicene
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#10 Post by Nicene »

oreaper wrote:Found out that instability doesn’t allow overrun?
It does. There's confusion with this because they've updated the FAQ several times, waffling back and forth. The current FAQ, though, allows overrun after instability.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=61399]my MSU army list/battle reports[/url]

[quote="Nyeave"]Omg it's a parrot chariot - a parriot... :D[/quote]
oreaper
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Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#11 Post by oreaper »

THanks for the heads up ill have to tell my local deamon buddy how it works so he can plan tactics accordingly.
oreaper
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#12 Post by oreaper »

So i've found new little combo that has a very similar effect to my current list. The Morian's wayshard. I am dying to try this little beauty in my next game with the pressure being put on hopefully turn 2, without putting so may points in a very fragile skirmish bunker. I Have also come to the conlcusion that ther are not enough dice to support 2 loremasters. Even in a trickle cast scenerio it becomes difficult to get the spell of you need and the impact is not wheighed with the near 300 point price tag of teh 2nd loremaster. It may end up that i need to make lorenzo go back to school and become an archmage. Ill put him in a block of spearmen. and ambush them in. So the new list will go something like....

Loremaster-Arm of SS (Lawrence)

Archmage- Morians wayshard/tali of pres/lvl 4 (death)(Lorenzo)

BsB- eagle/gcrown/star lance/Gwep/harm/charmed shield/lion cloak/pot of fool

15 silver helms- full com/shields

5 reavers- bows

29 spearmen- full comman/std of disp

20 swordmasters- full com/std of swiftness

lion chariot

10 sisters of ave- champ

3x bolt throwers

2x eagles

I want to try this list to see if i can be a trixsy elf and cause some backfield shanannagans
oreaper
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Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#13 Post by oreaper »

Sneaky brother elves vs the Khorne Flakes
My List:
Loremaster-Arm of SS (Lawrence)
Archmage- Morians wayshard/tali of pres/lvl 4 (death)(Lorenzo)
BsB- eagle/gcrown/star lance/Gwep/harm/charmed shield/lion cloak/pot of fool
15 silver helms- full com/shields
5 reavers- bows
29 spearmen- full comman/std of disp
20 swordmasters- full com/std of swiftness
lion chariot
10 sisters of ave- champ
3x bolt throwers
2x eagles
His List:
Chaos lord on steed with hellblade
BSB of khorne w/stuff (didn’t really matter as you’ll see)
Hero on jugger
2 x 17 warriors of khorne hw/sh
Warshrine
7 knights of khorne
5 skull crushers
2x 5 dogs

I got spirit leach/soulblight/doom and dark/and bjuna. We had a std deployment with my swordmasters facing off against his 2 blocks semi central. I spaced out the bolt throwers, placed the sisters central and put the reavers on the far right. His lord went with the knights on the far left flank the helms faced off against his juggers and hero with 2 dog units in front. The spears plus archmage stayed waiting in ambush.

Turn 1, I won the roll for 1st turn and fearlessly advanced going beyond charge arch of the juggers with the reavers advancing the swordmasters up and shuffling the other units around. Magic saw a boosted spirit leach pop his bsb. And shooting was meh aside from causing panic on a doggie unit. He responded by chaffing my helms, swinging his lord+cav to a better arch (hindsight a mistake), and advancing everything else around.

Turn 2, no archmage support yet. Helms charge the dogs to clear em, bold little eagle and reavers charge the flank of the crushers and the lion chariot makes a long bomb against the shrine. Swordmasters backpedal, eagle chaffs the knights. Magic sees a dispelled leach on the lord, and a successful searing doom on the knights killing 2. Shooting sees a flank shot killing 3 more knights, and trying in vain to put some wounds on the fast advancing warshrine. Combat sees the dogs getting obliterated and reform to adjust a central facing. The lion chariot whiffs in epic fashion and is smashed to tinder for its trouble, the crushers do what there name implies and smash the eagle and all but one reaver (gamble successful) which runs to the back right of the board with the crushers in tow. His turn he combo charges the left chaffing eagle with the cav and the warriors. The juggers rapid reform and advance forward toward the helms. The shrine and other warriors advance menacingly. The eagle explodes in a shower of feathers. And the warriors overrun 1st putting the close to a bolt thrower and jamming the knights a little.

Turn 3 archie and spears come from the back. Swordmaster and Lorenzo charge the flank of some warriors, bsb moves out of the way of some knights. Magic see the archmage spirit leach the jugger hero back to the realm of chaos, and I get a wyssans on the swordmasters to boot. Shooting sees the sisters kill the remaining knights and I have 3 tries at single bolts and finally manage to skewer the chaos lord. Combat sees the swordmaster slaughter the warriors down to a couple of left and they kill a couple in return. I run them down to secure the points. At this point my opponent is on his heels as what to do he charges the sisters with the shrine and warriors and I stand and shoot the shrine to little effect, the helms flees from the crushers, which fail. The warriors also fail but the shrine does not. The warshrine again proves its worth and obliterates the sisters to less the 25% and reforms toward a bolt thower.

Turn 4 The spears fail a rear charge on the warriors and the helms rally. The swords swift reform and head toward the middle. Magic sees another spirit leach go off and fill the crusher champ, and shooting kills one more. The warriors see a threat behind the and reform to the back. The crushers charge the helms and I’m too close to the edge to run this time. Warshrine hits a bolt thrower. Crushers crush and I epic fail to run away, and the bolt thrower is smashed.

Turn5 bold little bsb flank charges the crushers spears backup. Magic is fail, shoothing is at the shrine which only takes one wound. The star lance does its job and kills off a crusher breaking steadfast!! They break and are rundown. Warriors charge the spears (ouch) shrine charges another bolt thrower. Spears stab down 5 warriors and take a beating in return (I forget how many but I was still steadfast) and the archmage survives the challenge. They hold.

Turn 6 I fail my charge with the swordies, but wyssans the spears, shooting fails. I stab a few but the unit and the archmage get gutted. Ended up winning by a couple hundred points.
oreaper
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Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#14 Post by oreaper »

There is a 1 day 3 game primer coming up Sat. 4/26 that will be a warm up for the big event this summer. I have had some success with the loremaster thus far so i am thinking of trying something new for this primer to see what is working and what needs to be trimmed. The archmage shennanagans (while extremely tricky and fun) don’t quite get thier merit from turn 2+ so I’m going back to my fav ole bus....

Prince on Steed- Gblade, 1+ rr steed
Loremaster- Sword of AH,book,sheild of mer
BsB- steed 1,+starlance, ToTS
Handmaiden- Reaver bow, pot of str
13 helms- full com
18 archers- full com
5 reavers- bow
20 swordmasters- flame banner
lion chariot
2 eagles
2 bolt throwers
20 hand maidens- champ
I’m going to try to rock some socks with this 2500 pts list and see what’s what. Ill try to get pics of the event and post some batreps after.
oreaper
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Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#15 Post by oreaper »

Well had my go at the primer tourney this past weekend and boy it was a fun event with some real ups and downs. I ended up middle of the pack out of 24 players with 2 minor wins and a solid loss. The list performed as it should and i was really pleased at the results with some unit matchups. I took some pics throughout the weekend (not great ones but im still getting used to taking pics and concentrating on the game :lol: Ill post them with the reports some time a lil later. Btw a Annointed triple frostie list took home the trophey. Good day to be an elf!
oreaper
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Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#16 Post by oreaper »

My list

Prince- Barded steed/dragon helm/heavy armour/giant blade/shield/dawn stone
Loremaster- sword of anti heros/book of hoeth/shield of merwyrm
Bsb- steed/charmed shiled/star lance/other trickster shard/dragon armour/greatweapon
Handmaiden- reaver bow/potion of str
18 archers full command
13 silver helms- shield/full command
5 reavers- bows
20 swordmasters- full command/banner of flame
Lion chariot
20 sisters of avelorn- champ
2x reapeaters
2x eagles
Image

my opponent (ogres)

Tyrant- sword of striking/tali of pres
Bruiser bsb- some stuff (idk)
Firebelly- lvl2/scroll
Firebelly- lvl2
20 gnoblars
7 irongutz
8 irongutz
3x single sabre tusks
8 maneaters- scout/swiftstride
Ironblaster
5 leadblechers


Game 1

The game was a Standard Deployment, with diagonal corners scoring additional point for capture with a unit. I deployed (left to right) reavers, Bolt thrower(BT) lion chariot, archers, swordies with Loremaster (LM), had the 2nd bolt thrower central next to the cav bus. I deployed the sisters and handmaiden on the far right by an eagle. He had on my left the leadbelchers with a firebelly in front of the gnoblars, an irongut unit with the tyrant and another firebelly left center. He placed the 2nd unit of ironguts with the bsb right of the 1st. Then he placed the maneaters near the right of the 2nd ironguts. He put the cannon behind the main line which was right up at 12 inches, he spread the cats out to be chaffy across the board. He won the roll to go first, (also he rolled 2x fireballs, flamecage, and flaming sword)
Image
Image

He ran everything forward as fast as it could go so I had some ogres staring at my face. The cannon took 2 wounds off the chariot after a fireball did 1 so it was still a threat. I responded by backing up and repositioning and unleashing volleys of doom from shooting, after a miasma movement on the iron guts down to move 3 . When the twang of strings faded 4 maneaters lay dead. Next turn he chaffed my bus, shot my chariot and an eagle to death and shot some archers. I charge kitty, and reposition my eagle to chaff the bsb’s unit I also chaff the tyrants unit. Shooting see’s the maneaters whittled down 2 more and a couple of leadbelchers are killed as well. Kitty dies and the bus reforms to give no flanks. The remaining maneaters charge the swordies, the tyrant’s unit fail a charge against the archers. A couple of sisters die to cannon fire and a get flame caged.
Image
Dragon hide banner toasts some swordies, but the elite elves carve the maneaters before they can swing and reform to face the tyrants unit. The helm bus hits the bsb gut unit the swordies advance as it would be a rather long charge and the sisters sit tight because I don’t want 2/3 of them to die. Sisters kill a kitty and spirit leach does zippo to the Tyrant. Bus does what it does and absolutely cavres up the ironguts and leaves the bsb who dies while he runs. Tyrant charges the archers, last kitty chaffs the helms and leadbelchers advance on the sisters. Cannon misfires without any terrible result, tyrant mops up archers and face the swordies. Reavers charge the gnoblars, swordies charge the tyrants unit helms charge a kitty. Magic I get regen off (found out this was a waste of dice). Sisters put a few wounds in the cannon, kitty dies. In the big combat his tyrant challenges and the loremaster accepts. The lore master hangs 2 wounds on the tyrant for 2 in return. The swordies do a little carving and kill a couple of ironguts and hang 2 wounds on the firebelly, who in response kills 7 with his breath and squashes a couple more. The guts then merrily hack several more swordies and I fail my break test and get run down. Reavers kill a few gnoblars and lose 1 in return. And the gnoblars pas their ld 3 break test. Tyrant’s unit gets out of charge arc of the helm bus leadbelchers fail their rapid reform. Helms charge the leadbelchers who flee far enoughahndmaiden steps out drinking her potion to try to finish off the cannon, the sisters step into their corner to ensure scoring. The cannon lives with one wound the reavers kill a couple more gnoblars and they hold one snake eyes! (curse these little buggers a hundred times over!) The game ends with a slight victory to the elves with scenario bonus being the tiebreaker.
After thoughts

Ogres are always tough, with a generally higher toughness, multi wounds, and impact hits, they can be a nightmare. My opponent did very well to keep my main combat unit out of the center for most of the game and I found that chaff clearance can really make a huge difference. The sisters and handmaiden make a huge impact as they made the large unit of maneaters a non-issue. I made some mistakes with spell priority and my opponent really capitalized on this by dispelling my more important spells. I should have focused on the firebellys first with spirit leach to and them moved on to other characters. These casters are really nasty and I now see why they are in almost every ogre list. Lessons learned clear chaff, focus fire, prioritize magic/targets .
oreaper
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Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#17 Post by oreaper »

Game to PackRat Primer

My list

Prince- Barded steed/dragon helm/heavy armour/giant blade/shield/dawn stone
Loremaster- sword of anti heros/book of hoeth/shield of merwyrm
Bsb- steed/charmed shiled/star lance/other trickster shard/dragon armour/greatweapon
Handmaiden- reaver bow/potion of str
18 archers full command
13 silver helms- shield/full command
5 reavers- bows
20 swordmasters- full command/banner of flame
Lion chariot
20 sisters of avelorn- champ
2x reapeaters
2x eagles

His list (deamons)

Changer of Ways- Exalted reward/greater reward
25 plague bearers
10 horrors
10 horrors
3 flamers
4 plague flys
4 plague flys
3 screamers
3 screamers
3 plague beasts
3 plague beasts
Khorne cannon
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The scenario was Standard Deployment with a “special heirloom item” picked in secret from a list before the game started. Also the general had to challenge and accept any challenges (like the WoC rule). I picked an item that gave me an extra 6” on my inspiring presence and allowed me to redeploy 1 unit, he chose an item that gave an extra dispel dice and 1 reroll during the game. I deployed with the chariot and eagle and archers on the left, a bolt thrower the bus and swordies central, reavers a bolt throwers an eagle and the sisters to the right. He put the cannon and CoW behind a hill on the left near a unit of flys a unit of beasts and 15 horrors, in the middle he had 15 horrors the plague bearers the other beast unit and the flamers, on the right he had both screamer units and the other unit of flys. I used my redeploy to put the sisters on the far left side on a hill. We vanguard-ed and he won first turn.

First turn he moved up all the units in his army. The left flank cautiously advanced, plague beasts blocking the lord of change which was 30 inches away from my sisters. The center advanced as did the fast right flank. Magic had little effect, a magic missile took out a couple of archers. The khorne cannon shot short of the chariot. I responded by making a long bomb charge with the bus on the plague beasts, and everything else shuffled forward. Magic landed a fireball on the plague drones with all else being dispelled. The sisters shot off the cannon, little else had much effect. The valiant elves slaughtered 3 beasts on the charge, and the other popped after combat res and the overrun took them straight into the lord of change.

This turn of events had my opponent reeling on the back foot and he had to make some tough decisions. The plague bearers advanced, screamers slashed, and the left most drones charged a bolt thrower. Magic saw my chariots get blasted by the horrors and shooting had little effect (flamers sure got hit by a nerf bat). Combat saw the bolt thrower die and the drones turn to face the sisters. The big combat saw the prince put 3 wounds on the big bird and take 2 in return, combat res saw another drop (we both thought it was gunna be a quick game at this point). My turn the swordies charge the plague bearers, the eagles chaffed, one on the left drones, one on the right side plague beasts. Magic saw the plaguebearers get ice-sharded, shooting saw one screamer drop. Combat saw the swordies butcher the plague bearers with little causality in return. After the instability test there was 5 left. The Prince decided that this would be a great time to whiff and did 0 wounds and died for his trouble with 2 overkill. Big bird took no wounds to instability. Next turn chaffed stuff charged chaff and screamers slash some more archers and charge a bolt thrower. Magic is snake eyes and I dispel the horrors by rollin a 6. My bsb steps up and tanks like a boss and only takes 1 wound for naught. The bird lives yet again. The bolt thrower and both eagle chaff combats end in slaughter as does the swordmaster combat albeit in my favor. I reform toward the plaguebeasts.

I have little to do this turn so I charge headlong into the beasts, the sisters turn toward the drones and the archers shuffle. I get regen on the dwindling swordies. Shooting sees a plague drone fall out of the sky. In combat the bsb and the bird do a rocky 2 dbbl KO (he had that supper sword that upped all you stats so I thought this was a great result). The cav reformed to the middle. The swordies had a fail round and did 3 wounds not even stopping any return attacks which kill a third of the unit of brave swordmasters. The elves held true and remained in combat. My opponent chaffed the cav with some horrors, flanked the swordies with the plague beasts, and charged the drones at the sisters. Drinking her potion of strength the handmaiden loosed a volley and I rolled 3 ones, with that combined with the rest of the stand and shoot I did 1 wound to the drones. Screamers front and flanked the archers. Magic was shut down and shooting was….flamers… so nothing. Combat saw the swordies killed to a man and the loremaster ran down. The arches held stubbornly as did the sisters. During my turn the bus charged the chaff horrors and overran into the plaguebeasts. The archer died, but the sisters still stubbornly held.

The game ended with my bus getting flanked by everyone and their brother and the sisters getting wiped out last turn. Result, major loss.

After thoughts, deamons are a tough match without overwhelming magic, and my opponents msu style worked well for him. I prob should have stacked one side more that way it would have been tougher for some of his flank charges. I thought the game was wrapped up early when I overran into the greater deamon, just shows that sometimes dice can foil the best laid plans. I thought the sisters and a bolt thrower could handle a unit of plague flys…. Idk if I rolled poorly or not but these things are devastating. I have again found the difficulty in facing of against a strong level 4 with my lil loremaster. I can hope for 1 spell a turn, and stopping the opposing magic phase is an uphill struggle even with the book. I am leaning towards some tweaks with the current list including removal of the chariot and adjusting some magic items.
oreaper
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#18 Post by oreaper »

Game 3

My list

Prince- Barded steed/dragon helm/heavy armour/giant blade/shield/dawn stone
Loremaster- sword of anti heros/book of hoeth/shield of merwyrm
Bsb- steed/charmed shiled/star lance/other trickster shard/dragon armour/greatweapon
Handmaiden- reaver bow/potion of str
18 archers full command
13 silver helms- shield/full command
5 reavers- bows
20 swordmasters- full command/banner of flame
Lion chariot
20 sisters of avelorn- champ
2x reapeaters
2x eagles

His list (Warriors)

Chaos lord- jugger/tali of pres/helm of many eyes/ sword of change/shiled
BSB- mark of Tz/ tali of endurance/obsidian trinket
Sorcerer- lvl 2/Mark of Tz/dispel scroll/ruby ring
Chariot- MoTz
24 warriors- full command/shield/MoTz/blasted standard
10 warhounds- scaly skin/poison
5 warhounds- scaly skin/poison
5 knights- MoTz/ensorc weapons/full com/banner of swift/MoTz
Warshrine- MoTz
6 skull crushers- ensorc weapons/lich banner/full com
Spawn- MoTz

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This game had a standard deployment with a twist (of course) there was a large wood in the middle that caused frenzy that a unit could not restrain from my opponent won the roll off and elected to go first. At this point in the tourney I was well off the lead table so this game was more relaxed and prompted (in true elvish fashion) the opening of a cool bottle of sweet red wine.

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. The first few turns my opponent and I were jockeying for position with our respective busses. One mention of honor goes to the reavers which charged the unit of 10 warhounds, broke them and caused the warshrine and small chaos knight to panic and run!

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In turn 3 his bus charged my swordies which opted to flee and never rally in later turns. The juggers redirected into the archers, killed them and overran of the table, this setup a flank charge on my next turn with my buss so it was a decent trade all being said. I shot of all his other units and couldn’t take down his warriors ( the blasted standard is pretty awesome against shooting) I ended up winning by a little over close to 1k so a decent win.
oreaper
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#19 Post by oreaper »

Buckeye battles is a 2 day GT event that has a 20 nil scoring system with 5 points available for sportsmanship, and 5 bonus scenario points for a total of 30 points per round. The tourney uses Swedish comp to band lists together for the 1st 3 games (day one). The bands are 0-7.9 (band 1), 8-13.9 (band 2), and 14+ (band 3). It is a fairly large GT (126 this year) and is one of my fav tourneys of all time.

My list-
Prince-Elven steed/d armour/shield Giant blade/Dawn stone/Other trickster shard
Loremaster-Book of Hoeth/Tali of Pres
Noble BsB-Elven steed/darmour/shield/ogre blade/golden crown
Handmaiden-reaver bow/pot of srt
13 silver helms-full com/shields
18 archers/full com
5 reavers/bow
20 swordmasters/full com/flaming banner
6 shadow warriors/champ
2x bolt thrower
Asf eagle
Eagle
20 sisters of avalorn/champ
This is a very fragile list as I found in this tournament. It did comp into band 2 (10.9) so I wasn’t gunna hit any ultra hard lists the 1st day. It required many synergizing elements to work together. The character placement is pretty self-evident and if not dealt with each main element is a treat and the shooting/magic combo can really take down priority targets. At 1st I had a tough time with the loremaster, and even as you will see a little in this tourney. The level 2 going against a strong level 4 is an uphill battle. With the trickle cast method it really is a fake out game of misdirection that once mastered, can reeeeeeally frusterate your opponent. I had a great 2 days and ended up 28th out of the 126 overall (with painting scores and fav opponent bonus added) so it was a decent run of it. I have some pics both pre/during/post tourney so im going to get cracking on some reports!
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John Rainbow
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:47 am
Location: PA, USA

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#20 Post by John Rainbow »

Are lists already submitted? If so I won't make any comments.
oreaper
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#21 Post by oreaper »

yeah john the tourney was 2nd weekend of july, im just slow at posts :) the reports are incoming
oreaper
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#22 Post by oreaper »

Well in the meantime before i get the bat reps up, it is an army blog so here is some pictures of my elves prior to the tourney.

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oreaper
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#23 Post by oreaper »

Scenario 1 hidden deployment
This is one of my favorite scenarios to play. Basically there is a large cardboard sheet runs long ways through the middle of the battle field, obscuring the view of each others deployment. The entire army is set up (minus scouts and the like) and then the screen is removed. It had bonus victory for table quarters.
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The 1st matchup of the tourney was against a solid block lizard list with a life Slann (oh boy!)
Slann bsb (life)/channel staff/becalming/convergence (dwellers,flesh to stone,regrowth,throne)
Oldblood arm of destiny/dawstone/pot of fool
Priest lvl2/dispel scroll/ancient steg/engine
30 sauras full command
25 sauras full command
25 temple guard full command/razor std
6 chamo
5 chamo
Troglodon
This is a tough matchup for most armies. What it lacks in delivery of a hammer it makes up for with being tough as nails. My opponent rolled the perfect defensive setup and his deployment matched. He played the trog on the left, then it was slann in the TG, then the 25 block, then the engine, 30 block. He deployed the chamo skinks right up in my grill (hoping a 1st turn at the bolt throwers). I placed the reavers on the left, then the archers to the right, A BT, the bus, the swordies, the sisters the other BT then mr eagle on the far right to keep scouts honest. I opted not to vanguard my reavers and lost the roll off for 1st turn.
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He advanced the chamos to start the harassment of the BT’s on each side and rooled poorly for both only doing a single to wound on the leftmost BT. He shimmied forward and repositioned his lines and got the slann within 24 of most things. Luckily the magic was low and I dispelled throne, and he failed at dwellers. Time for the counter attack. I started by charging the chamos on the left with my reavers, and charging the chamos on the right with my eagle. The eagle made it minus 1 would to stand and shoot, and the reaver promptly failed the charge needing a 5 on dice. I surged my lines up and positioned it with my bus slightly ahead and to the left should he expose any units early on. I should mention at this point as well that the handmaiden chugged her potion of str. Magic saw movement miasma on the trog, and searing doom do 2 wounds to the engine (hurray for trickle cast!). Shooting saw me attempt and fail to pick some wounds of the trog. On the right I killed a couple of sauras. Then the sisters put the engine in their sights…and took it off with the skink priest to boot! The eagle killed a few skinks but they stubbornly refused to run. Next turn he chaffed my bus with his chamos, and staggered his lines making the stair step formation with the TG in the back. Magic saw throne dispelled again but this time dwellers got through (I forgot the trog oracle was a vassel so he could cast the small one on 4 dice). Half my cav bus got sucked down to the void but thankfully Isha was watching over the characters and they survived. I followed up by charging the skinks again with the reavers, this time they fled right in front of the bus, who was in the way so the reavers redirected into the flank of the troglodon. The bus declared on the chamos too, which then popped through his line. Left with a difficult decision I redirected into the TG. The unengaged eagle chaffed the middle sauras block, the archers and sisters advanced for better firing position. Magic saw average dice but my opponent decided this would be a good turn to channel 3 extra dice, so this was the turn that I sorely felt the pain between caster levels, nothing got through. The archers twiddled their thumbs and the sisters took 10 or so sauras of the right block. The eagle finished the chamos, the reavers did 2 wounds to the trog, which slew 2 in response and held fast. In the big combat my champ challenged, his champ accepted and died (hurray for the small victories!) my 2 characters do what they do and slew 6 TG and the bus toppled 1 more. On the counter punch his character and unit killed all but 2 knights (and for that I was lucky with my saves!). I won on res and of course he stuck.

His turn he shuffled and reformed his lines to face central and charged the chaffing eagle. Magic saw a dispelled throne and regrowth, only to let flesh to stone through. Combat saw my reavers whiff and break to be run down by the trog, and the eagle exploded in a shower of feathers. On the main combat my prince skewerd the mighty oldblood twice and took a wound in return. The rest of the bus died and the BSB took a wound for the 1 he did in return. I failed my break test and the prince must have been distracted by something shiney as he was run down by the unit. At this point I got a little greedy and went for the bank so I charged the now exposed TG with the swordies. The archers flank charged the trog and the other eagle chaffed. The sisters got in half range of the depleted sauras. Magic saw wyssans go through. Shooting finished of the sauras (I love the sister unit, they were amazing this game). Combat was bloody this round. The archers finished of the Trog (woot!). In the TG combat the slann got sent to the back for refusing to challenge my loremaster. The swordies and their mentor killed 9 TG but took a whooping 7 kills in return . He passed his break test. During his next turn he exploded another eagle, during magic he double 6’d throne rolled a 7 and lost 1 die I dispelled regrowth but he got flesh to stone through. Combat was in his favor as I killed a couple but he 5 more swordies. I hled on stubborn (he only had 3 TG left).

During my next turn my archers turned about and camped on my left table quarter, and the sisters eyed in the sauras. Magic was a fail with snake eyes and my opponent channeled twice. Sisters shot 10 or so sauras down. I killed 1 TG and he killed 2 swordies. I held. SO after this the downhill trend continued. The sauras flank charged, I broke and got ran down. Next couple of turns I tried to shoot of his TG but failed b/c he dwellers my sisters and I panic’d. Ended up being a 12/8 loss to the lizards. Good fun for sure and well done to my opponent.
oreaper
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Double trouble, the brothers Master

#24 Post by oreaper »

After thoughts…. You may notice I didn’t mention my shadow warriors at all for got to mention he terror charged with his trog turn 1 and I panic’d (re-rollable 10) and never rallied. My thoughts on this battle were that I made several mistakes, big ones at that. Sometimes my optimism clouds my better sence, so I guess I could break it down chronologically. I should not have charged with my bus into the TG. I know what this unit does and I just got frustrated that the skinks landed right in the way of everything so I charged em away. Hindsight should just reform or reposition elsewhere. Should not have challenaged the oldblood with my prince. It was unlikely that I would kill him outright and combat was not looking good for me anyways, the extra kill would have netted me the TG and maybe swung the game(he ended with 1 TG left). After this the swordies should have gone for the sauras instead of the TG. Again I was greedy and a wyssand full unit might have killed the whole lot, instead of a few kills on tough 6 TG. On a final point I don’t know if I had the right course of action each magic phase. A level 2 v a level 4 I was only getting maybe 1 dispel a phase so I usually opted for throne b/c its remains in play, a buff, and protects the mage (always leaves the chance of him going down the rabbit hole). 1st game at the largest event I ever been to, got the jitters outta the way, and was ready for redemption during game 2!
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