2500 v Warriors - Nicene's Sky Sloops
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:26 pm
Battle 1 (VC) Dec 2013
Battle 2 (VC) Jan 2014
Battle 3 (VC) Jan 2014
Battle 4 (O&G) Feb 2014
Battle 5 (VC) Feb 2014
Battle 6 (WoC) Mar 2014
Battle 7 (O&G) Mar 2014
Battle 8 (O&G) Mar 2014
Battle 9 (WoC) Apr 2014
Mighty Empires Interlude Oct 2014
New Sky Sloop list, fast/melee heavy Dec 2015
Sky Sloops with two dragons vs WotDG Jan 2016
Welcome to my sky sloop adventure! I'm designing an army based on speed and melee power, which I'll be using for a series of upcoming games. However, I also just bought a house and started a new restaurant, so I'll be pretty damn busy and might not get a whole lot of games in. Follow the link above to my newest games. The only thing my current list has in common with my old MSU lists is the SKY SLOOPS which of course are even better than they ever used to be.
********* Old stuff below ************
Welcome to my MSU adventure! This list is focused around almost no elite infantry, with lots of fast, flying units and a very heavy focus on shooting. As the list and my playstyle evolve, I'm discovering how to use the units (and which units I need most).
***
Current List: 2496 points
330 Lords
Loremaster – Dragonhelm, Book of Hoeth, Golden Crown, Ring of Fury: 330 "Alexandra the Half-Dragon"
211 Heroes
BSB – Dragon Armor, Lance, Charmed Shield, Reaver Bow, Strength Potion, Eagle: 211 "Carmen"
630 Core
18 Archers - S+M: 200
18 Archers - S+M: 200
5 Reavers - Add Bows, M+S: 115
5 Reavers - Add Bows, M+S: 115
755 Special
5 Princes - C+S, Flaming, Star Lance: 205
10 Phoenix Guard - S, Discipline: 175
Lion Chariot: 120
Lothern Skycutter: 95
Lothern Skycutter: 95
5 Swords: 65
570 Rare
1 Frost Phoenix: 240
1 RBT: 70
1 RBT: 70
1 RBT: 70
5 sisters: 70
1 Eagle: 50
I play with a really casual circle of friends and we care more about fun than winning. Our group is growing quickly, though, and we're looking to start a league/campaign of some time soon! Anyway, don't look for super-competitive games here. That being said, I want to make the list as strong as I can. I always appreciate criticism of the list and of my playing, so lay it on!
***
Units and Tactics:
Any MSU list is focused on one thing--combo charges. To maximize the effectiveness of them, we need fast units, small footprints, and decent leadership (and no frenzy/stupidity/animosity). In other words, movement is very important, and High Elves have possibly the most dominant movement phase in Warhammer. This makes MSU a great fit for our army book, I think.
My list chooses units which will help me win the movement phase and perform well in combo charges. To that end, I want to combine 3 major elements: heavy ranged threat, high mobility/avoidance, and very powerful combo charges.
Chariots
We are blessed with three very interesting chariot choices, and they are definitely growing on me! The skycutters in particular are particularly star performers for me, especially without their bolt throwers (a bad upgrade, I've come to realize). Chariots are of course perfect for MSU, at least my style, because they can fit in small spaces (notably corners), hit hard on the charge (you'll be charging a lot), and have swiftstride and high movement for reliability! They can suffer a wound or two without losing combat effectiveness, which is important since I need my units to not be neutered every time they win a combat. They can also move backward and sideways freely, maintaining ideal distances from the enemy until it's time to attack. They also add to my. . .
Shooting
It's very powerful when you have more ranged potential than your opponent. By forcing your opponent to move to you, you can envelop his forces, whittle them down, and attack when the time is right. This is always my general strategy for every game. I always forget this strategy after drinking a beer or two, but I can at least look back and see where I made mistakes! Generally, I always attack too soon against armies that pose little ranged threat to me. Whoops!
My shooting is comprised of a good spectrum--on the heavy end, bolt throwers provide the threat of single shots, while the Reaver Bow, repeater shots and sisters work together against medium-toughness threats. Finally, I have 52 strength 3 shots in the list!
Magic Damage
I need a lot of magic missiles to synergize with my shooting. I've decided that outright destroying hordes is not important to me--I can weaken them with ballistic skill shooting and whittle them down with magic missiles sufficiently to defeat them in combat. To this end, I've chosen the Loremaster, with a good selection of scaleable magic missiles, plus the Ring of Fury. I also love the fluff and look of this model, and I like the idea that she will be at least somewhat useful in close combat.
The other spells are obviously good as well. Spirit leech with LD9 isn't too bad and may help against strong characters (which otherwise pose difficulties for me). Blizzard will especially help when I orchestrate combo charges. Miasma is simply an amazingly versatile spell. Earthblood is the least useful, especially since my Loremaster runs in a unit of Phoenix Guard, but the ability to heal a wound on something with 2 dice is still good. (in fact, that single wound caused a 750-point swing in a recent game!) Wyssan's, while without any amazing targets, is okay on Phoenix Guard and is easy to cast on 2-3 dice on my chariots/eagles/cavalry/monster.
Combat units
The list is filled out with a few more combat units designed to break enemies on the charge. Dragon Princes, Lance/Strength Potion Eagle BSB, and 5 swordmasters, comboed with any of the chariots, should be enough to win easily against appropriate targets. Archers in 3 ranks can help with steadfast and disruption when needed (when deep enemy units advance quickly down the middle, and I don't have time to whittle them down, archers will hopefully be in a good position to flank charge). The phoenix has many targets against which it can be expected to win very quickly, so it will be up to me to put it into the right combats at the appropriate time.
Anvils
High elf armies struggle to field any strong anvil units, and this list is certainly no exception. However, I do have a few interesting options that other MSU lists may lack. First, 18 archers can certainly hold for a round against many types of foes. They have musicians so can reform 5-wide when necessary. Two units provides some redundancy here. Second, the Frost Phoenix is an incredible anvil against certain foes. S5 monstrous infantry/cavalry, for example, struggle to land any appreciable damage on the thing. S5 infantry will outright lose to it, especially fighting to their flank. Finally, 10 Phoenix Guard, with the possibility of a 3++ save, may be able to hold a dangerous combat for a round or two until aid arrives.
***
Weaknesses
Powerful enemy fighting characters
I don't have any units or characters capable of defeating enemy combat characters in close combat. Carmen, with her S9 charge, might assassinate them sometimes, especially if they are without ward saves. The Drakemaster, if he bears the Star Lance, can certainly defeat moderately tough hero-level characters if the dice gods are smiling. The Phoenix can of course win under certain circumstances. Other than that, strength 5 or greater combat attacks are hard to find in my army, so I need to find other ways to defeat these foes. One method might be to shoot their bodyguard to death and then shoot or magic them down, though that requires time. Spirit Leech is another possibility. The final would be to defeat their unit badly in combat, without even fighting the character. None of these is fool-proof, however!
Fragility of my own characters
I have crammed the maximum amount of utility into my minimum amount of characters. Their versatility and multiple purposes leave little room for protection. Alexandra is my general, a light melee fighter, and my only spellcaster (even bearing my only bound spell!). Losing her is very bad, and her only real protection is a 4++ parry save and the possibility of Earthblood. Pretty scary! Her bodyguard of 10 PG is pretty solid in MSU terms, but still pretty frail by most armies' standards. I can expect her to be a big target, especially since she's going to be centrally located (though not in the very front lines, hopefully).
Carmen is a lone flying character, the BSB, by far my highest-strength attacker, and with only the Charmed Shield and a 6++ for defense! I'll need to be very careful with her against warmachines, moderate-strength shooting (though she can shrug off strength 3 shooting with her armor save), and especially magic missiles.
Grinding power
Elves are pretty bad at this, and my list takes this to a new extreme indeed.
Leadership
MSU armies always struggle with leadership. You'll need to declare many Flee! reactions, suffer many panic tests from casualties, and so on. And your units are widespread so it's impossible to cover them all with your leadership! LD10 helps some with this, as does a highly mobile BSB. However, the position where I want Carmen for shooting and counter-charges is usually not where I want her for Stand Your Ground!, so I'll need to constantly be making tough decisions about where to place her. Additionally, she can't shoot when she marches. Thankfully, Alexandra is designed to be in the thick of the army's formation, so her LD10 should be helping the maximum number of units most of the time (one reason I chose her over an Archmage).
Battle 2 (VC) Jan 2014
Battle 3 (VC) Jan 2014
Battle 4 (O&G) Feb 2014
Battle 5 (VC) Feb 2014
Battle 6 (WoC) Mar 2014
Battle 7 (O&G) Mar 2014
Battle 8 (O&G) Mar 2014
Battle 9 (WoC) Apr 2014
Mighty Empires Interlude Oct 2014
New Sky Sloop list, fast/melee heavy Dec 2015
Sky Sloops with two dragons vs WotDG Jan 2016
Welcome to my sky sloop adventure! I'm designing an army based on speed and melee power, which I'll be using for a series of upcoming games. However, I also just bought a house and started a new restaurant, so I'll be pretty damn busy and might not get a whole lot of games in. Follow the link above to my newest games. The only thing my current list has in common with my old MSU lists is the SKY SLOOPS which of course are even better than they ever used to be.
********* Old stuff below ************
Welcome to my MSU adventure! This list is focused around almost no elite infantry, with lots of fast, flying units and a very heavy focus on shooting. As the list and my playstyle evolve, I'm discovering how to use the units (and which units I need most).
***
Current List: 2496 points
330 Lords
Loremaster – Dragonhelm, Book of Hoeth, Golden Crown, Ring of Fury: 330 "Alexandra the Half-Dragon"
211 Heroes
BSB – Dragon Armor, Lance, Charmed Shield, Reaver Bow, Strength Potion, Eagle: 211 "Carmen"
630 Core
18 Archers - S+M: 200
18 Archers - S+M: 200
5 Reavers - Add Bows, M+S: 115
5 Reavers - Add Bows, M+S: 115
755 Special
5 Princes - C+S, Flaming, Star Lance: 205
10 Phoenix Guard - S, Discipline: 175
Lion Chariot: 120
Lothern Skycutter: 95
Lothern Skycutter: 95
5 Swords: 65
570 Rare
1 Frost Phoenix: 240
1 RBT: 70
1 RBT: 70
1 RBT: 70
5 sisters: 70
1 Eagle: 50
I play with a really casual circle of friends and we care more about fun than winning. Our group is growing quickly, though, and we're looking to start a league/campaign of some time soon! Anyway, don't look for super-competitive games here. That being said, I want to make the list as strong as I can. I always appreciate criticism of the list and of my playing, so lay it on!
***
Units and Tactics:
Any MSU list is focused on one thing--combo charges. To maximize the effectiveness of them, we need fast units, small footprints, and decent leadership (and no frenzy/stupidity/animosity). In other words, movement is very important, and High Elves have possibly the most dominant movement phase in Warhammer. This makes MSU a great fit for our army book, I think.
My list chooses units which will help me win the movement phase and perform well in combo charges. To that end, I want to combine 3 major elements: heavy ranged threat, high mobility/avoidance, and very powerful combo charges.
Chariots
We are blessed with three very interesting chariot choices, and they are definitely growing on me! The skycutters in particular are particularly star performers for me, especially without their bolt throwers (a bad upgrade, I've come to realize). Chariots are of course perfect for MSU, at least my style, because they can fit in small spaces (notably corners), hit hard on the charge (you'll be charging a lot), and have swiftstride and high movement for reliability! They can suffer a wound or two without losing combat effectiveness, which is important since I need my units to not be neutered every time they win a combat. They can also move backward and sideways freely, maintaining ideal distances from the enemy until it's time to attack. They also add to my. . .
Shooting
It's very powerful when you have more ranged potential than your opponent. By forcing your opponent to move to you, you can envelop his forces, whittle them down, and attack when the time is right. This is always my general strategy for every game. I always forget this strategy after drinking a beer or two, but I can at least look back and see where I made mistakes! Generally, I always attack too soon against armies that pose little ranged threat to me. Whoops!
My shooting is comprised of a good spectrum--on the heavy end, bolt throwers provide the threat of single shots, while the Reaver Bow, repeater shots and sisters work together against medium-toughness threats. Finally, I have 52 strength 3 shots in the list!
Magic Damage
I need a lot of magic missiles to synergize with my shooting. I've decided that outright destroying hordes is not important to me--I can weaken them with ballistic skill shooting and whittle them down with magic missiles sufficiently to defeat them in combat. To this end, I've chosen the Loremaster, with a good selection of scaleable magic missiles, plus the Ring of Fury. I also love the fluff and look of this model, and I like the idea that she will be at least somewhat useful in close combat.
The other spells are obviously good as well. Spirit leech with LD9 isn't too bad and may help against strong characters (which otherwise pose difficulties for me). Blizzard will especially help when I orchestrate combo charges. Miasma is simply an amazingly versatile spell. Earthblood is the least useful, especially since my Loremaster runs in a unit of Phoenix Guard, but the ability to heal a wound on something with 2 dice is still good. (in fact, that single wound caused a 750-point swing in a recent game!) Wyssan's, while without any amazing targets, is okay on Phoenix Guard and is easy to cast on 2-3 dice on my chariots/eagles/cavalry/monster.
Combat units
The list is filled out with a few more combat units designed to break enemies on the charge. Dragon Princes, Lance/Strength Potion Eagle BSB, and 5 swordmasters, comboed with any of the chariots, should be enough to win easily against appropriate targets. Archers in 3 ranks can help with steadfast and disruption when needed (when deep enemy units advance quickly down the middle, and I don't have time to whittle them down, archers will hopefully be in a good position to flank charge). The phoenix has many targets against which it can be expected to win very quickly, so it will be up to me to put it into the right combats at the appropriate time.
Anvils
High elf armies struggle to field any strong anvil units, and this list is certainly no exception. However, I do have a few interesting options that other MSU lists may lack. First, 18 archers can certainly hold for a round against many types of foes. They have musicians so can reform 5-wide when necessary. Two units provides some redundancy here. Second, the Frost Phoenix is an incredible anvil against certain foes. S5 monstrous infantry/cavalry, for example, struggle to land any appreciable damage on the thing. S5 infantry will outright lose to it, especially fighting to their flank. Finally, 10 Phoenix Guard, with the possibility of a 3++ save, may be able to hold a dangerous combat for a round or two until aid arrives.
***
Weaknesses
Powerful enemy fighting characters
I don't have any units or characters capable of defeating enemy combat characters in close combat. Carmen, with her S9 charge, might assassinate them sometimes, especially if they are without ward saves. The Drakemaster, if he bears the Star Lance, can certainly defeat moderately tough hero-level characters if the dice gods are smiling. The Phoenix can of course win under certain circumstances. Other than that, strength 5 or greater combat attacks are hard to find in my army, so I need to find other ways to defeat these foes. One method might be to shoot their bodyguard to death and then shoot or magic them down, though that requires time. Spirit Leech is another possibility. The final would be to defeat their unit badly in combat, without even fighting the character. None of these is fool-proof, however!
Fragility of my own characters
I have crammed the maximum amount of utility into my minimum amount of characters. Their versatility and multiple purposes leave little room for protection. Alexandra is my general, a light melee fighter, and my only spellcaster (even bearing my only bound spell!). Losing her is very bad, and her only real protection is a 4++ parry save and the possibility of Earthblood. Pretty scary! Her bodyguard of 10 PG is pretty solid in MSU terms, but still pretty frail by most armies' standards. I can expect her to be a big target, especially since she's going to be centrally located (though not in the very front lines, hopefully).
Carmen is a lone flying character, the BSB, by far my highest-strength attacker, and with only the Charmed Shield and a 6++ for defense! I'll need to be very careful with her against warmachines, moderate-strength shooting (though she can shrug off strength 3 shooting with her armor save), and especially magic missiles.
Grinding power
Elves are pretty bad at this, and my list takes this to a new extreme indeed.
Leadership
MSU armies always struggle with leadership. You'll need to declare many Flee! reactions, suffer many panic tests from casualties, and so on. And your units are widespread so it's impossible to cover them all with your leadership! LD10 helps some with this, as does a highly mobile BSB. However, the position where I want Carmen for shooting and counter-charges is usually not where I want her for Stand Your Ground!, so I'll need to constantly be making tough decisions about where to place her. Additionally, she can't shoot when she marches. Thankfully, Alexandra is designed to be in the thick of the army's formation, so her LD10 should be helping the maximum number of units most of the time (one reason I chose her over an Archmage).