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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:44 am 
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Hi Nicene,

Great to know that MSU experience was helpful. I am glad you are developing your own style as it is the most important aspect of the hobby. Looking forward to reading about your exploits with PG horde, good luck in your next battle!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:44 am 
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2500 vs O&G Fandex

Had a practice game using the list above against my friend's Orcs & Goblins. He was using some modified rules we've been working together on.

The lists, roughly:

(622 Lords)
Prince - barded steed, dragon armor, Ench. shield, Giant blade, Dawnstone, OTS: 292
Loremaster - Preservation, Hoeth: 330

(178 Heros)
Noble - BSB, barded steed, dragon armor, shield, lance, BotWD: 178

(830 special)
1 skycutter: 95
1 skycutter: 95
38 PG - fc, razor: 640

(627 core)
19 helms, shields, fc: 467
5 reavers: 80
5 reavers: 80

(240 rare)
1 frostheart phoenix: 240

2497


His list:

Orc Warboss on Wyvern - OTS, 4++
Black Orc Warboss on boar - Armor of Gork

Orc Big Boss
Orc Shaman - level 2 lore of beasts
Night Goblin Shaman - level 2 lore of fire
Goblin Big Boss on wolf

47 Orc Boyz with Orcish Flails
15 Goblin Wolf Riders

9 Black Orc Boar Boyz
Goblin Wolf Chariot
Mangler Squig
Mangler Squig
Goblin Doom Diver Catapult
7 River Trolls


Here are some photos and captions. This battle wasn't very great so I won't do a battle report!

deployment:
Image
So he had a giant horde of orcs with flails, including a bunch of characters, in the center. I deployed with a weighted left flank.
My army, left to right: helms with prince and BSB, PG with loremaster, skycutter, reavers, skycutter, frostheart, reavers.
His army: wolf riders with big boss, mangler, river trolls, orcs, mangler, general on wyvern, chariot, boar boyz with warboss, doom diver.


turn 1:
Image
He mostly shuffled in his first turn. Flame cage hit my central reavers, killing 3. Doom diver missed my eastern reavers.


Image
Eastern reavers charged doom diver, flyers on east side moved up to threaten the second warboss's cavalry unit. Killed the closest mangler with a 10+ fireball. Miasma on trolls for -2M.

turn 2:
Image
River trolls and orcs moved up. Wolf riding big boss jumped into the trolls. His large wolf rider sacrificed itself to block my cavalry. I let a 10+ fireball through on my central skycutter in order to save dice for flame cage on the PG. He rolled low and did zero wounds to the skycutter, but then he managed IF on the flame cage, killing one PG with the initial d6 hits.


Image
PG ignored the flame cage and charged the trolls, losing 10 more. Skycutter also charged the trolls. The cavalry charged the spider riders. On the east, skycutter and phoenix charged the black orc boar boyz. Easters reavers moved to offer rear charge on the boar boyz. Central reavers blocked the orcs. miasma and iceshard on trolls. All combats won. The helms killed all the goblins and reformed. The PG/skycutter beat the trolls and restrained, reforming. The phoenix/skycutter beat the boar boyz but the enemy held on steadfast.

turn 3:
Image
General on wyvern charged the western skycutter. A mistake in my reforms allowed him line up in order to overrun into the PG flank. Mangler failed to reach the PG, leaving a 5.5" gap there. Trolls rallied. Orcs reformed past the blocking reavers. Wolf chariot attempted to charge the eastern skycutter but was 1" short. Magic killed a few PG with fireball, and got Savage Beast onto the general. In combat, the wyvern rider destroyed the skycutter and overran into the PG flank. I won again in the east, but he held on a 6.


Image
Reavers rear charged the boar boyz. Helms squeezed past the mangler into the trolls. Central reavers blocked the orcs again. Managed wyssan's on the PG, plus iceshard blizzard on the general. Won big in the east, and his lone warboss fled toward the center of the table and was run down by the phoenix. The PG lost bad to the general, but held on steadfast. He allocated to R&F since he'd be hitting on 4+ rather than 5+ against my loremaster. I think this was a mistake. I did manage two wounds on the wyvern, with wyssan's and razor standard doing good work against its 3+ armor save. I combat reformed 5 wide to face the general. Helms beat the trolls and caught the last one, pursuing through the mangler (due to the big footprint and the pivot) and into the orcs! Lost 8 helms to the mangler--he rolled 15 hits on the 3d6, but I made a lot of 6+ armor saves to bring it back down to average.

turn 5 (no photo):
eastern reavers fled from wolf chariot, which redirected into skycutter and again failed by 1 inch! In magic, I barely stopped wyssan's on the orcs, with BoH reroll. Savage Beast once again went up on the general. In combat, the helms won big, losing only a couple. The orcs held on steadfast. PG killed the wyvern, general couldn't wound the loremaster (still hitting on 5). General fled, PG reformed to face the orcs. Phoenix was prepared to rear charge them as well. Opponent conceded.



* * * * *
Well, tough game for my opponent. He was really eager to try out his book with the changed we made, allowing (hopefully) for a more combat, in-your-face kind of orientation. He wasn't able to make much headway, however. A couple rolls didn't go his way, but mostly I think the helm bus just showed how powerful and resilient it really is. The PG horde was certainly interesting; the ability to shrug off things like flame cage and still maintain fighting strength was pretty impressive. Certainly there wasn't a unit on the table that could have beaten them, though maybe the orcs with wyssan's, and the wyvern with a flank charge, could have won. Loremaster as always was ace. And the Phoenix basically won the east flank by itself. Such a strong unit!

My list really needs another redirector or two. I could drop 4 helms for another unit of reavers.

The obvious change would be to decrease the PG to a more reasonable number, freeing up points. Suppose I drop the unit to 24, freeing up 210 points. But the question is: how should I spend those points?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:52 am 
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Hi all, thrilled to be playing a bit of Warhammer again. My friends and I are trying out T9A!

So I have messed around with one or two Pathmaster-focused armies, but I think I'm going to go in a different direction for a while and focus on a very heavy, fast melee army.

This list features quite a lot of Swordmasters, very light shooting, only support/defensive magic, and multiple flying monsters. And, yes, it still contains two Sky Sloops!

I have a game in a few days, so here's the list I'll be bringing:


Total: 2498

(682 Heroes)
Mage, Fiery Adept, Level 2, Young Dragon, Book of Meladys = 325
High Captain, General, Fleet, Sky Sloop, Lionfur, Lance, Heavy Armor, Hardshield, Greatbow of Elu = 209
High Captain, BSB, Heavy Horse, Lionfur, Lance, Longbow, Heavy Armor, Shield, Lucky Charm = 148

(640 Core)
15 Lancers, 2+, fc, Prosaic Days = 385
5 Light Cavalry, bows = 85
5 Light Cavalry, bows = 85
5 Light Cavalry, bows = 85

(786 Special)
14 Swordmasters, champ = 192
14 Swordmasters, champ = 192
14 Swordmasters, champ = 192
Sky Sloop = 70
Lion Chariot = 90
Eagle = 50

(390 Rare)
5 Knights of Ryma, champ = 190
Frost Phoenix = 200


My general should be pretty tough with T4, W4, 1+, 5++. I plan to get him into combat pretty quickly, along with the Fiery Adept. That's where they'll be safest, right?

If I'm reading the rules right, I'll have a +4 to dispel, and with 3 spells and the Book (though only +2 to cast), I should have a fair chance myself of getting a spell or two off when I need them. The Aura version of Flaming Swords sounds pretty good with this style of list, and the Path of Fire has some other decent utility spells that can be cast while in combat. And he's a dragon. Economical!

There's some chaff to help set up the combats I need. Faster elements can help sweep enemy chaff, assassinate enemy characters, or clear the flanks while the Swordmasters and Frost Phoenix prepare for the main combats.


*********


Well, I'll take photos of the game and see whether I can write up a proper battle report after all these months!

Please let me know if you spot any legality issues with my list! Also, if you have any ideas, questions, or suggestions, lay it on me. I'm in it to win it.

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Last edited by Nicene on Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:45 pm 
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Interesting list Nicene!

I'm a bit worried that the lack of shooting commits you to the attack but you certainly have tools. An opponent will have to deal with your fast attack units, which gives your Swordmasters a better chance of getting across the table.

Specifically, I'm a bit confused as to how the BSB adds up to 148, am I missing a second magic item? I don't think the Icon will be much use unless your Dragonmage goes down because he can't join in an Aided Dispel. Can you squeeze in the lvl 1 mage Honour on your BSB instead? I'm not sure about the big unit of Lancers plus BSB because once halted, it can't grind.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:07 pm 
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Hi again Spellarcher and thanks for the comments!

Yes, it's definitely lacking in ranged threat, so I'll be forced to press the attack relatively quickly. This is the style of game that I enjoy playing. I believe there will still be plenty of room for big decisions to make in the movement phase, and none of my units are strong enough to really stand on their own, so this is still far from a point-and-click army. Blocking, flanking, and combined charges will be the key!

For the BSB, I forgot to include the Longbow. I'll edit this change in. Nice catch! (I gave him the longbow just because I had extra points).

The Icon can assist the Mage (but not the reverse). I confirmed this ruling on the T9A forums, so I believe that is correct. Did I understand your question correctly?

I considered adding the Scholar honor rather than the Icon, but this would take points out of core and move them into Hero, so what looks like a 15-point cost to make the switch would actually be a bit more expensive. Still, that's not a bad option, and I may consider it for future lists. Having the extra aid in Channeling would be a nice side-product. Is it better to have +4 to dispel and +2 to cast, or just +3 to both?

The Lancers will not be a good grinding unit, that's true! I could consider outfitting the BSB with a different weapon to help solve this problem. Truthfully, I'm considering the unit pretty solid already, since it fulfills many roles: powerful on the charge, static combat resolution, ranks, area denial. It can't do everything, and I don't want to devote too many points or additional characters to that unit, since I believe this list needs to have a balanced arsenal of threats. What changes would you suggest for them?


edit: for 40 points, I just realized I can give the BSB a Giant Sword. Didn't realize this item was discounted for heroes now! I could get these points one of two ways:

a) sacrifice most of my shooting
15 points by dropping bows from Light Cavalry
25 points by dropping Greatbow from General

b) drop a few Swordmasters

I'm not willing to drop any champions or drop the eagle. I think champions are just too good now, plus I like the models and the fluff. And the eagle will be really important in this list, I believe.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:00 pm 
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Nicene wrote:
The Icon can assist the Mage (but not the reverse). I confirmed this ruling on the T9A forums

I stand corrected!

Nicene wrote:
I considered adding the Scholar honor rather than the Icon, but this would take points out of core and move them into Hero, so what looks like a 15-point cost to make the switch would actually be a bit more expensive. Still, that's not a bad option, and I may consider it for future lists. Having the extra aid in Channeling would be a nice side-product. Is it better to have +4 to dispel and +2 to cast, or just +3 to both?

With Book your only Arcane Item, I feel the defence is probably more important. However the extra spell would be another good reason for squeezing this guy in.

Nicene wrote:
b) drop a few Swordmasters

This, I think. Giant Sword is a great idea!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:45 am 
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Interesting list. I like that you've got target saturation with fast cav and swordmasters to absorb quite a bit of shooting and not be that vulnerable to templates. Meanwhile the chariots and dragon add saturation for cannons...though I'm not convinced by the sloop general - seems to jack of all trades master of none. Could be a very interesting base list though, looking forward to seeing it in action (doubly so because you did well with a unique style in 8th).

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:33 am 
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based on your feedback:
added Scholar of Fire to my BSB, plus Giant Sword. He's now much more expensive and also lost his Lucky Charm, so he's definitely a lot more fragile. But this will help the spell selection for my Mage, as well as the other benefits mentioned. Obviously 40 points for this Honor is extremely good value.

I now have more points in characters than in Special, thereby violating a tenet I like to observe when list-building. But since one of the characters is a monster, I guess that's okay. Also I guess things are different now that Knights of Ryma are Rare.

I've had to drop the Eagle. =[


Total: 2500

(755 Heroes)
Mage, Fiery Adept, level 2, young dragon, Book of Meladys = 325
Commander, General, Fleet, sky sloop, lionfur, lance, heavy armor, Hardshield, Greatbow of Elu = 209
Commander, BSB, Fire Scholar, heavy horse, lionfur, heavy armor, shield, Giant Sword = 221

(645 Core)
15 Lancers, 2+, fc, Prosaic Days = 390
5 Light Cavalry, bows = 85
5 Light Cavalry, bows = 85
5 Light Cavalry, bows = 85

(710 Special)
14 Swordmasters, champ = 192
14 Swordmasters, champ = 192
12 Swordmasters, champ = 166
Sky Sloop = 70
Lion Chariot = 90

(390 Rare)
5 Knights of Ryma, champ = 190
Frost Phoenix = 200


Thanks for your feedback. Game is tomorrow; will write a report win-or-lose!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:28 am 
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(I deleted this report because it's reposted just below including diagrams)

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Last edited by Nicene on Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:53 am 
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This looks like a great report and I will comment just as soon as I can get some time together!

:)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:51 pm 
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Okey Dokey here's a report from my first battle with this list! Against my old enemy Jimmy with his Orcs & Goblins forces.

Image
Nicene's Highborn Elf army arrayed for battle.
I fielded the list above.


He fielded:

Orc Warlord on Wyvern (this is a Mounstrous Beast now): T5, W4, 1+/4++, not sure what else ~300 points?

Great Green Idol (scary monster): BSB, icon of magic item nullification, T6, 2+/5++ ~400 points?

Level 4 Orc Big Shaman, 4++, extra spell ~250 points?

20 orcs with crossbows ~200 points
20 orcs with crossbows ~200 points
20 orcs with crossbows ~200 points

20 Iron Orcs, ~300 points
10 feral orc mounted 'eadbashers, 4+ armor ~250 points?
5 spider ridin' goblins, ~75 points

3 cave trolls, 4+/regen ~150 points
Git Launcher Artillery, ~100 points



*************
Image
O&G, left to right: 20 xbows, 3 trolls, 20 iron orcs with L4, 20 xbows, general on wyvern, Idol, 20 xbows in building, 10 feral orcs on boars, Git Launcher in trees, 5 spider dudes
Elves left to right: 5 reavers, frost phoenix, lion chariot, 5 reavers, 5 reavers, 14 swords, 14 swords, 5 knights, 15 lancers with BSB, general on yellow sky sloop, purple sky sloop, 12 swords, mage on young dragon


Deployment and Strategy:
Last time we'd played, I got hurt pretty bad by his crossbows, so this time I decided to go for a weighted flank attack. I'd stay out of range of his shooting on my left, break through his right side, remove his crossbows from the building, and force his units to wheel to face me (with poor lanes of fire).

Image

I thus put most of my attacking force on the right flank, and redeployed the left flank out of range of his shooting on turn 1. I think this was a poor plan. I feel that my army would have fared better with more open lanes of attack and movement; as we shall see, my swordmasters (the meat of the army) failed to really accomplish much due to the constrained area. I feel that I'd have been better served to aggressively attack the left flank, shutting down the crossbows with my flying monsters and using the swords to cover their flank. Lancers and Knights would then be available for countercharges against his monster and wyvern.





*************
O&G 1:

Jimmy deployed the last few of his pieces simultaneously, guaranteeing his O&G the first turn. He decided not to move any of his pieces, and instead moved straight into the magic phase.

Magic (6v4): The Big Stomp was dispelled, thanks to Book of Meladys. Bashing Fists on his general failed.

Shooting: Casualties were relatively light! The Git Launcher removed one unit of reavers, but no panics were triggered. Xbows in the building pinged off 2-3 swordmasters. Western xbows took 3 wounds off my lion chariot.

Image

Combat (none)





*************
Image
advance from elves is (too?) cautious

Elves 1:

I shifted some more to the east flank, falling back with the lion chariot in order to preserve points. The exception was the phoenix, who flapped into the trees to prepare for a combination/countercharge in the next turn. Lancers prepared to charge the building, though I was considering sending the BSB in solo to wreak some havoc. With the new building rules, he had a pretty sure shot at driving the inhabitants out. However, there was a risk he could actually be killed in that combat (with only a 3+ armor save dismounted), so I later decided to have his lancers escort him.

Mage on dragon moved to offer various charge threats, while remaining units shuffled, unsure how exactly to advance. Knights moved to provide cover to the swordmasters.

Magic (6v4): Flaming Swords went through onto my general on yellow sky sloop. Burning Ramparts also landed (thanks to the Book) on the xbows in the building! A few burned up (benefiting from the Flammable rule in this instance). Lore attribute also pinged off two or three boar riders.

Shooting: shooting went fairly well, as thanks to the flaming swords on my general, he plus his crew were able to kill a few more boar riders, leaving only four riders remaining.

Image

Combat (none)





*************
O&G 2:

Western xbows, with nothing to shoot, attempted a swift reform but failed. Trolls and iron orcs marched. Other xbows held their ground, while spider dudes circled my dragon and boar riders sounded the retreat. Wyvern and Monster still held the back line, waiting for a chance to exploit any openings.

Magic (8v5): Zap went past my defenses and scored a staggering 7w on my phoenix. After 3 saves, he was left on 1w. Big Stomp then killed 13 swordmasters (we are still using the foot template, but I may have to renegotiate this). Remaining swordmaster fled as he was now outside reroll range, but no other panic tests were triggered.

Shooting: Central xbows managed 1w on the phoenix, just enough to finish it off. xbows in building picked off the fleeing swordmaster, again triggering no panic (but a couple nines were rolled; scary!). Git Launcher once again proved its worth by scoring a OHKO on my purple sky sloop.

Image

Combat (none)





*************
Image
more advances. But still too tentative?

Elves 2:

Dragon failed a charge on the Git Launcher from 15 inches away. Lancers reached the building and lined up so that they'd be able to charge central xbows after the 1" nudge back (I think we played that right?).

I'd been planning to use the purple sky sloop to shoot the spider dudes, but it was a pile of smoldering wreckage at this point. Eastern swords swung back to the center. Lion chariot swung east behind the hill, while a unit of reavers moved to counter the spider dudes. General confidently landed in the water hazard, benefiting from his ability to ignore dangerous terrain.

Magic (3v3): Smouldering Ember was miscasted onto my Lancers, with absolutely no ill effects (rolled a 4 on the chart, but failed to wound). Love the new miscast table; much more fair.

Shooting: scored another wound or so onto the mounted 'eadbashers, reducing the unit to 2 orcs. Eastern reavers' arrows all bounced off of tree trunks as they were unable to hit any of the goblin raiders.

Image

Combat: lost a single lancer in the building, but the unit fled and lost most of its remaining models to the Burning Ramparts effect.






*************
Image
Waaagh!

O&G 3:
Warlord declared a WAAAAAGH! which is a REALLY good special ability now. I really wish Elves had a power like this! All his friendly units gain Devastating Charge as well as Swiftstride.

So his trolls used swiftstride to get into my Knights (rolled the 10 he needed) and his general plus Idol charged into my lancers. Thankfully I had managed the defensive buff on them the turn before! The remaining xbows failed to rally and, still burning, fled further.

The two remaining mounted 'eadbashers continued their tactical withdrawal, while the remaining Orcish units redressed their lines.

Magic (6v5): Bashing Fists onto the general was once again dispelled, thanks to the Book. 5++ went up onto general.

Shooting was relatively uneventful as a Reaver or two fell from their saddles and the Git Launcher misfired, suffering a wound.

Image

Combat: The trolls scored two wounds by puking (one was saved via 6+ ward), and my knights thankfully held on a 6 rerollable. The wyvern accepted my champion's challenge and managed 6 wounds on the poor fellow, while the Idol managed only one wound on my BSB. I failed to penetrate his thick armor saves, with my Giant Sword being nullified by his magical banner, and lost massively but held on steadfast.






*************
Image

Elves 3:

Eastern swordmasters rushed to the aid of the beleaguered knights. Dragon finally managed to find his way through the trees to the Git Launcher, and reavers charged the goblins in the flank. They elected not to flee as doing do would have put them off the board (the playing surface in the photos is 8x4, but we only use 6x4 for the game).

The wounded lion chariot edged back to offer some kind of charging threat, while my general hopped over to prepare for a countercharge and do a little shooting. Central swordmasters repositioned themselves.

Magic (7v5): Burning ramparts went up on the xbow orcs. This would be extra effective as they were standing in a field! several died immediately, as did a single boar rider from the attribute. Smouldering Ember was dispelled.

Shooting: nothing here

Image

Combat: The trolls broke (though not before puking on another Knight), and the knights pursued them but came up short. The Swordmasters reformed. 3 more Lancers died as well, but my BSB stayed alive. The Idol has WS 2 so he was having difficulty hitting now that his Hatred had worn off, and the general was only S5 after the first round as well. Still I failed to deal any wounds in return, but I held on steadfast.

Dragon defeated the Git Launcher and overran, trying to get in a better position. Reavers defeated the spiders but could not catch the last one.






*************
O&G 4:

Spider failed to rally and ran some more. Last Xbow Orc fled from the table. Trolls rallied.

Magic (6v6): Bashin' Fists was dispelled. Zap did 2w to the western swordmasters.

Shooting: not much

Image

Combat: 5 more Lancers died, and I was no longer steadfast but held on a 5 rerollable! We had to count several times to be sure. Still no wounds in return.






*************
Image
finally, countercharges

Elves 4:

General on yellow sky sloop charged wyvern from the front. Knights charged wyvern from the side (looking at the picture, how exactly were they able to squeeze past the trolls? May have made a mistake there). Swordmasters charged trolls once again. Dragon flew into position behind central xbows to look for a charge in turn 5. Reavers elected to remain stationary and fire at the last spider, rather than charge it through the river.

Western reavers moved to block the iron orcs, while western swords backed them up.

Magic (10v5): flaming swords from the dragon was dispelled. Landed Ember on the lancers (killing the last boar rider with the attribute). Finally, my BSB casted the boosted Flaming Swords, buffing the lancers, BSB, general, knights, and swordmasters!

Shooting: reavers couldn't kill the spiders. Western reavers plinked a wound off the xbows, and dragon breathed fire, killing 5 more. Might have been better to save this ability, but I decided it would be more fun to use it now in case we didn't finish the game. Unfortunately, I think the new version of fire breath isn't as cool as the template version, but that's okay.

Image

Combat: Swordmasters cleaved through the trolls, hitting on 2+ and wounding on 2+, with only a 6+ save available. I believe I did 10 wounds with 15 attacks. They elected to overrun, a very questionable plan. I thought maybe I would be in the flank of his orcs after doing so, but I wasn't.

Then Jimmy revealed the Dragonhunter Helm on his general (actually he'd told me this earlier, but I forgot about it). So he had a 2+ ward against all of my attacks! Still, with my knights and general hitting on 3+ and wounding on 2+, I was able to sneak two wounds past his ward save. Managed another wound onto the Idol, and taking only 2 wounds on my general in return, I won by 5 and the Idol broke, fleeing through the xbows (who are cold-blooded when in horde formation).






*************
Image
things have turned around

O&G 5

Iron orcs with Big Shaman charged swordmasters. I forgot that they could flee from charges; that would have been the correct move here. Actually, we weren't really sure how to resolve a charge like this, since technically the orcs were in my flank. Perhaps my swordmasters should have rotated backward to accept the charge in the side? We decided to simply have them charge the swords' front instead, with the units only touching corner-to-corner.

The burning xbows very bravely attempted a combat reform to shoot at the dragon. They failed the reform, and also lost another 6 orcs to the flames! The Idol rallied. Spider continued to flee.

Magic (8v6): Reroll failed hits went onto the general. Fists was dispelled. 5++ ward on the orcs was dispelled.

Shooting (none)

Image

Combat: orcs broke the swords and ran them down, pursuing into the reavers.

His general couldn't KO my general and lost combat, being subsequently run down by all three of my units.






*************
Image

Elf 5:

My opponent wanted to concede, but he agreed to let me charge and fight out the dragon vs. xbow battle. Thus we skipped all other charges and magic.

Image

Combat: Between my attacks, grinding attack, and thunderstomp, I scored 6 wounds, just enough to break steadfast (monsters now count as having 1 full rank).

Result: bloody victory!
I lost:
Swords
Swords
Reavers
Sky Sloop
Phoenix
=739

He lost:
Boar riders
wyvern rider
xbows
xbows
trolls
~1,100






*************
Analysis:

Gameplay:
Well, as I said before, my usage of the swordmasters was very poor here. My plan against shooting should be target saturation, not cagey avoidance. I can lead with armored elements, or screen with reavers, but in general speed and numbers should be my weapons against superior ranged damage lists.

Also, I really fixated on the crossbows in the building, and much of my strategy was devoted to breaking them out of there, when I should have been aiming at his relatively thin line to the west. My monsters could have gotten across the board quickly, hopefully, and knocked out his shooting by turn 2 while the swordmasters followed up to defend against the melee counterattack. A couple other mistakes I pointed out earlier, but I think in general it was my overall strategy that was poor in this game.

I got lucky that my lancers held long enough for help to arrive, and winning that combat turned the game around. I was pretty sure I had lost right up until I rolled that "5" on the break test! Also I'm pretty sure I must have cheated to move my Knights through the trolls like that. Then again, we realized later that the anti-magic banner on the Idol was illegal, so my BSB should have been S7 that whole time, not S4. I'm sure we made other rules errors as well (hazards of learning a new game).

List:
I'm pretty happy with how the list looked and I want to give it another shot without changing much. One thing we agreed is that we'll be using scenarios from now on, so I've added standards to many of my units for next time. I really wish I'd had an eagle this game. I've always loved swordmasters (and they're now better than ever) and I want this style to work, but I need to learn how to use them properly.

Game:
This game is a lot better than WFB 8th edition. Very nice, thoughtful, and fun changes from the developers. Love it. Obviously they are standing on the shoulders of giants, but their fresh look at the game has really brought a lot of life into it.



Please write any comments or criticism! Thanks as always for reading; these are a lot of work to write up.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:01 pm 
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Well, I've now been able to sit down with a glass of wine and have a good read, thanks Nicene!

The Crossbows are the big thing that stands out about his list. A big threat to your infantry and cavalry but you have the flyers. Enough shots would bring them down but he may not get time. With this in mind your comments on deployment were interesting. At first I could see the sense of it but as you say, this made it difficult to get at his shooty wing. You seemed to have the flexibility to choose the other option you mentioned. I'm not sure the flyers would have run his wing over but there was a fair chance of it and at the least it would probably have sucked his combat elements in and got your Swordmasters involved quickly. As it was your forces seemed to get a little bunched up early on without being able to exert that quick pressure you were after.

The magic was interesting. Book seemed to help a fair bit but what caught my attention was the Zap on the Ice Phoenix. Was he lucky to put that much damage on? In general you seemed to contain his magic fairly well but that phase went all wrong for you, with the Swordmasters going down too. It sounds brutal but I feel the Phoenix mattered more so it was a big blow to fail that dispel. Maybe a Dispel Scroll?

As you said, the Helms holding pretty much won it for you because he needed to break them. When he failed, you were simply able to pile your superior fighters in and crush him. Typically HE's might use Phoenix Guard for this but the Helms, with their Steadfast and armour, were the best option here. I guess this is why many players would keep a Prince in this unit. When it comes to rules mistakes, I think we're all making loads at the moment!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:47 am 
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Thanks for your comments!


**********
He threw four dice at Zap, totaling maybe 18. I responded with five dice, and even with book reroll I was still too low to stop it (really poor roll here, something like 1, 1, 2, 3, 4; the 1 rerolled into a 3).

For his 2d6 S5 hits he rolled up nine hits, of which seven were 4+. I saved three with the 5++ ward.

Yes, a dispel scroll could have stopped the ensuing Stomp, but over the course of the game the Book had a greater impact, I feel, dispelling at least one other Stomp or Fists, and getting one or two extra spells off as well. A single successful cast of Bashin' Fists would probably have ended the game immediately, as his general would have had 7A at S9 or something. Whereas any given cast of Stomp might miss its target entirely, and even erasing a unit of Swordmasters, while impressive, is less impactful than turning around a game-deciding combat. If I'd had a scroll to stop Stomp in turn 2, should I have used it?

I can't see sacrificing the Book for a Scroll in almost any situation. Now, adding a scroll caddy is certainly a possibility. For 100 points it might be a solid investment.


***********
I forgot to mention my most obvious mistake in this game: letting the Lancers get charged by his General and Monster. I was actually thinking the monster was a ~100-point chariot, not a ~400-point monster. Even so, it was probably silly to line up in a situation that would let them get double-charged.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:19 pm 
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I agree about the Swordmasters Nicene, painful as losing them was, they were not vital to victory at that point and hence not worth using a scroll on. Was the Phoenix threatening a charge into the O&G shooters at that point though? As you identified, this guy is a key player here and keeping him alive is the kind of reason you might want a scroll. It was unlucky to take so many wounds from the spell but with a scroll luck wouldn't come into it.

I take your point about how helpful the Book was with the big grinding combat but it looks like the game shouldn't have come down to such a chancy business. Your 'Monster Rush' plan probably would've been better and a scroll could've been crucial to keeping one of them alive early-mid game. Once you're in combat raw fighting power should do the rest.

Don't get me wrong, I've used the Book and I rate it. I just feel, as most players seemed to even with the older, more powerful Book, that if you can only have one, Scroll is it. Maybe playstyle affects this though and I can see that dispel dice are better placed to shut down all-or-nothing casts than they were, especially with a re-roll. There's just something ultra-reliable about the Scroll and reliability rocks for list-building and gameplay.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:03 pm 
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I'm going to try out Ancient Dragon for my next list. Here's a rough draft:

(495 Lords)
Prince: ancient dragon, great weapon, Lucky Shield = 495

(545 Heroes)
Mage: Fiery Adept, level 2, young dragon, Book of Meladys = 330
Commander: BSB, Fleet, sky sloop, lance, heavy armor, Hardshield, Lucky Charm = 215

(635 Core)
25 Coast Guard: heavy armor, full command, Banner of Becalming = 380
5 Elein Reavers: bows = 85
5 Elein Reavers: bows = 85
5 Elein Reavers: bows = 85

(454 Special)
14 Sword Masters: champ = 192
14 Sword Masters: champ = 192
Sky Sloop = 70

(370 Rare)
5 Knights of Ryma: devastating charge, champ = 170
Frost Phoenix = 200



************
So basically, I'm dropping a unit of swordmasters, the mounted commander, and the lion chariot. In exchange, I get the dragon.

I also switched the Lancers out for Coast Guard. 3 reasons for this:
1. I like the models and have almost never used them since I got them (they're the first models I ever assembled, came with Island of Blood).
2. I don't have a mounted commander anymore to help the Lancers grind.
3. I just want to try them out. I've always liked the idea of these guys, and now they seem pretty solid.

Still, I'm not sure they're the best fit. If I walk 5" each turn to take advantage of their shooting, they'll fall behind the rest of my troops and be more of a cleanup force, rather than the anvil I'm kind of looking for. I'll have to see how they work out.

I have a game v. Warriors of the Dark Gods soon!


Last edited by Nicene on Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:25 pm 
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I guess you get to see how well the Ancient Dragon survives and if he goes down too quickly you stick some extra protection on him? At least with two you have more target saturation (considering the Phoenix as well). I see what you mean about the Coastal Guard but they do give you some useful shooting and a good target for Flaming Swords. Maybe it's a case of just trying them out? Cracking armour doesn't look like their forté but you have the Ancient for that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:06 pm 
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Promise to comment on BR once RL quietens down :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:52 pm 
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This is nonsense, Warhammer is obviously far more important than eating, for example!

:)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:14 am 
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OK, just finished a battle vs. the Warriors of the Dark Gods! The secondary objective was Breakthrough, where you score 500 bonus VP for having a scoring unit in your opponent's deployment zone at game end.

Thought going in:

Pros: My list should be well suited to face Warriors as I'm fielding units which are weak to shooting but strong in melee (and Warriors are in general going to be melee-focused). I'll have the speed and the drops to choose my fights, and the fighting abilities to hopefully win combat unless I make mistakes. I'm scared of his magic but hopefully it won't have too much of an impact.

Cons: My S3 shooting and S4 magic won't do too much damage vs. his good armor saves and high T.


My list is as you see above (just scroll up a post or two). My general idea with this list is to weight a flank, set up a good combo charge using my Reavers as bait, and mow the opponent's army down from the side. Warriors may be be a good matchup for me.

Image
a panoply of colorful models arranged for transport. The Young Dragon is something my wife painted for use as a wedding cake topper. I think it's from the Reaper Bones line. I wedged a metal High Elf Mage model between its wings. No glue required.


His list was (from memory):

Lord of Chaos on foot, Wrath, Blade of Hellfire, 2+ rerollable
Sorcerer Lord on fast cavalry, Lust, ?? items
BSB on foot, Pestilence, ?? items
Sorceror on foot, Pestilence, Scroll
Barbarian Jarl on foot, ?? items


22ish Warriors, Wrath, paired weapons
22ish Warriors, Pestilence, shields
30 Barbarians, Wrath, flails, ambushing

Gorebeast Chariot
Warshrine with priest of the heavens (it had Wind Blast as a bound spell, which could really cause me some difficulties)
8 Hell Riders (fast cavalry with a whip-based shooting attack)





Deployment after vanguards:

Image
the many vs. the few

He finished his deployment fairly early. In response, I decided that my plan would be to shoot his fast cavalry off the board (he told me they are T3 with 6+ armor save) and use the space thus gained to encircle his infantry from the left. Note that the ambushers are not present at this time. I didn't have much of a plan for them, but I figured I could shoot or magic them off, hopefully.

His plan was to press into the center, destroy my Coast Guard, and improvise from there. He told me that he didn't really have a solid plan for my Ancient Dragon, except perhaps to lower its toughness via Leprotic Curse and hope to take it out with his characters. He could also definitely threaten it with his Path of Lust spells, one of which inflicts 2d6 hits that wound on a 4+ and ignore armor!

Image
High Elf forces plan to encircle the enemy from the left. Would the river slow down their advance, however?





**********
Image

Warriors 1:

Mark was essentially guaranteed the first turn, and he signaled the advance, beginning with a very alarming movement from his fast cavalry + Sorcerer Lord! I had carelessly left an opening, and he decided to sprint through with his Hellriders, looking to use them to bog down my advance on the left and buy time for his Warriors to flatten my center. This movement would also put him in range of some dangerous magic.

Elsewhere, his battle line advanced evenly.

Magic (8v7): Deafening Cacophony was dispelled. Necrotic Cleansing killed 3 Coast Guard.

Shooting: The Hellriders used their whips to deal 1 wound to my purple Sky Sloop.

Image

Combat (none)



**********
Image

Elves 1:


I took advantage of the positioning of the Hellriders and declared charges. First with the purple Sky Sloop, then with the western Reavers, and finally with the Mage, sending them off the board! Mark later told me that he hadn't really considered the risk of that happening to them; none of us have played very much in the last year!

In the center, the Reavers moved forward to trap the Wrath Warriors, while I set up countercharges with the Coast Guard, Prince, and Phoenix. My plan here was to flee with the Reavers (though in hindsight, holding may have been better) and lure the Warriors into the open space in front of my Coast Guard, where I could surround and destroy them.

Positioning the Prince and Phoenix was a bit tricky. Let me tell you, 14" flying march for the Prince is a LOT worse than 20". It's a good change I think.

On the east, my Knights began to circle the impassable terrain, looking for a turn 2 or turn 3 charge.

Magic (5v3): Burning Ramparts onto the Wrath Warriors was scrolled.

Shooting: I was able to plink away one or two Warriors, but nothing major.

Image

Combat (none)





**********
Image

Warriors 2:


Well, things did not go as planned. I fled far enough with the Reavers to get past my Coast Guard and Swordmasters (both of whom were testing for panic on a 10 rerollable. The reroll was required for one of them!). I stood and shot as the Wrath Warriors redirected into my Coast Guard (11" away), then held against the charge of the Pestilence Warriors (12" away). I also held with my BSB against the Gore Chariot (16" away). I should have placed my BSB a bit more carefully; i was surprised when Mark declared that last charge, as I hadn't considered it. Still, I figured he had a good chance to fail the charge, plus I had a good chance to survive that combat for a round or two.

All three charges hit home, and the Warshrine fell in behind the warriors. Ambushers did not arrive (thankfully).

Magic (5v4): Leprotic Curse onto the Coast Guard failed. Wind Blast onto the Knights was dispelled.

Shooting (none)

Image

I went with sword and board on the Coast Guard to try to increase their survivability, but I still lost by a million and broke. The Wrath Warriors with Chaos Lord pursued, running me down and crashing into the Swoardmasters, while the Pestilence Warriors with Sorcerer and BSB pivoted to face my monsters.

My BSB on yellow Sky Sloop took only a single wound from the Gore Chariot, while dealing none in return (Gore Chariot is T6). I was able to hold on a rerollable 7. WS6, T4, W4, 2+, 5++ is pretty great.





**********
Image

Countercharges went into the Wrath Warriors. Knights of Ryma went into the Warshrine. Central Reavers rallied and moved to block the Pestilence Warriors.

Mage flew in to buff the units in combat, while other western units moved to support.

Magic (8v6): Aura version of Flaming Swords was dispelled. Burning Ramparts hit the Pestilence Warriors, dealing 0 wounds for now. The lore attribute killed a couple. 4+ fireballs also did a couple wounds, and another Warrior died to the lore attribute. Pretty solid magic phase.

Shooting: Killed maybe one Warrior with the sky sloop and Reavers.

Image

Combat: Prince on Ancient Dragon easily defeated the S4, I4 Chaos Lord, with Thunderstomp dealing a couple wounds as overkill. The new challenge rules definitely benefit Ridden Monsters. Swordmasters selected Distracting, and the Warriors were only able to deal 3 wounds to me before breaking. Swords and Phoenix pursued while Prince reformed.

Knights rolled pretty well and destroyed the Warshrine outright, opting to pivot back toward the center. S6 is so useful on these guys.

BSB took a couple more wounds but hung in there, even dealing a wound in return. Combat was a draw.






**********
Image

Warriors 3:

Pestilence Warriors charged central Swordmasters, who fled west. 10+ rerollable panic tests were all passed this time. They redirected into Reavers, who intrepidly held their ground. Only one Warrior died to the hits from Burning Ramparts. Ambushers arrived to threaten my Mage and Swordmasters.

Magic (8v5): RIP Ramparts was dispelled. Leprotic Curse onto Warriors was dispelled.

Shooting (none)

Image

Chariot performed poorly and could not defeat BSB. It suffered another wound and fled! BSB pursued but could not catch it. Warriors squashed the Reavers and overran 10", taking them well outside line of sight of my Prince (whoops). That was a mistake when making my post-combat pivot last turn.






**********
Image

Elves 3:

Frost Phoenix charged at the flank of the Warriors, who held. Mage then also declared a charge, and they fled 10", taking them outside charge arc of my Knights and Reavers. Eastern Reavers charged the fleeing Gore Chariot, who fled through my Knights, taking another couple wounds from dangerous terrain. New rules for dangerous terrain are very good. Western Reavers also charged fleeing Chariot, but it safely fled through the field, with just one wound still remaining.

Prince moved to block the Barbarians, while Swordmasters reformed and Sky Sloops moved to the flank for shooting and countercharges.

Magic (8v4): Burning Ramparts was cast with Overwhelming Power (3 dice). It killed a few Barbarians, and the lore attribute killed a massive 4 Warriors! The miscast drained my power dice but there was little other damage done as I had used only 3 dice. New miscast rules are pretty good.

Shooting: killed a couple more Barbarians.

Image

Combat (none)




My opponent conceded at this point. We forgot about the secondary objectives, but it seems pretty likely that I'd have ended up with my Knights in his deployment zone. Looks like a pretty big win for the Elves! Commentary to follow, as both Mark and I have some things to say about this game (which was a pretty silly one in some ways)!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:32 pm 
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Well OK some thoughts about this battle:

1. This was my third list in T9A so I'm definitely at the stage of "refining my list and playstyle" while Mark, in his first game, is "messing around with all the new toys." Hence the ambushers (while perhaps not a bad unit in and of itself, but not useful this time) and the suicidal play from the fast cavalry on turn one. I do think ambushing Barbarians with flails could be a useful tool, but in this game they did not have good targets, and they came onto the board a turn or more too late. A battle in which the fighting began on turn two and was decided by turn three is not a good battle for ambushers to really shine.

At any rate, by my math the Barbarians + Jarl were around 300 points total, so that's not a huge waste. A bare bones version of the unit might be as low as:
15 Barbarians, Lust, Flails = 90
Jarl, Great Weapon = 99
total = 189, or 222 with throwing weapons on everything



2. His list didn't really have an answer to the Ancient Dragon. With no attacks at S6+, the Dragon was free to pretty much beat any unit or combined unit on the field. With the new challenge rules, it's tough to beat a ridden monster through static combat resolution. He did have a few threats: Leprotic Curse could reduce its toughness, he could hope to defeat it in a combined combat (scoring wounds off my Reavers or Coast Guard) and force it to flee, or he could magic it down with Cacophony. The other Lust spells are Leadership-based, which means Martial Discipline makes my Prince very resistant to those spells, especially if I keep him within range of the BSB. So Mark's plan was to avoid or slow the Dragon (perhaps with the new Wind Blast) while scoring as much as he could from my softer elements. A difficult position to be in! Maybe great weapons on one unit of Warriors would have given him some options against scary things like Ancient Dragon.


3. The dice didn't help him out either:
The Mauler Chariot should probably have been able to grind out and beat my BSB, but I was able to pull that combat out. We didn't think that was exactly a pivotal combat, however.
The Ambushers didn't show up turn two. This definitely could have forced me to divert some of my forces to deal with them.
Magic didn't work out so great for him. Book of Meladys is a pretty great deal for 30 points. And of course he threw away his L4 turn one!




Questions:
How should my Reavers have reacted to the charge declaration on turn two? Also, how should I have better positioned my units in turn one?


Anyway, we had a fun game, and we're looking to talk some of the other guys into getting a small campaign going sometime. Thanks for reading! Comments and criticisms always welcome.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:43 pm 
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Thanks for this Nicene, another nice clear report.

Looking at the lists I agree this is a good match-up. He has three infantry blocks, you have three strong monsters. You are much faster, which helps re the secondary objective, though he does have Ambushers. The Hellfire Sword Lord (and maybe the BSB) are dangerous but no match for the Ancient. I believe the Lord is S5(?) but even that is not enough. 2+ RR is also no good vs S7, probably he should go GW or something and beef up defence. He needs magic to perform for him. Running the Sorcerer Lord with the light cav does not look safe enough to me.

I wondered if you should have gone around both flanks with your flyers Nicene? What you did worked OK of course. Quite right that Mark has to get stuck in quickly to have a chance. Not with the cav though, that move was a disaster. It might just have paid off in 8th with the chance of IF bubbled Caco but that is history.

I would have kept the Sea Guard back over 12" and Held with the Reavers. That way he can't Overrun into the SG. He absolutely wants those infantry vs infantry combats. The (dragon?)fly in the ointment was your Prince of course, which the Warriors just couldn't cope with. They have to win combat to work, a substantial loss and they usually break.

Job done!

:)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:45 pm 
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Changes for the next game:

I'm going to drop the Ancient Dragon down to a regular Dragon. It's partially because I almost feel guilty fielding the Ancient in friendly battles; he can win games almost by himself sometimes, or against certain armies. Also, he's a very feast-or-famine unit who might go down early and leave me way behind. So I've decided to diversify the army and take a more balanced approach.

So with the extra 100 points, I'm going to include the Lion Chariot once again! This leaves me with a second question:


Should my BSB ride a Sky Sloop or the Lion Chariot?

Assume that there are going to be three chariots on the field (two Sloops and one Lion). Which should my BSB ride?

If I'm reading the rules right, it actually saves 15 points to put him on the Lion Chariot, since I don't have to purchase the Fleet Officer honor. In other words, a Lion chariot, plus a naked commander on the Sky Sloop will cost:

Lion Chariot: 90
Commander with Fleet Officer on Sky Sloop: 70 + 20 + 75 = 165
total: 255


While a Sloop, plus a naked commander on Lion Chariot will cost:

Sloop: 70
Commander on Lion Chariot: 70 + 100 = 170
total: 240


So what are the tradeoffs?

Arguments for Sky Sloop:
1. More resistant to cannons/artillery with his 5++ ward
2. Better mobility for his Hold your Ground! rule
3. BS6 for that Sloop

Arguments for Lion Chariot:
1. Potentially increased survivability in combat with the 1+ armor, Valiant, and higher-quality chariot attacks
2. 15 points cheaper, meaning I can afford to upgrade his kit.


So how would I build this Lion Chariot BSB? Here's the rest of the list (2254 points):

(395 Lords)
Prince: dragon, great weapon, Lucky Shield = 395

(330 Heroes)
Mage: Fiery Adept, level 2, young dragon, Book of Meladys = 330

(635 Core)
25 Coast Guard: heavy armor, full command, Banner of Becalming = 380
5 Elein Reavers: bows = 85
5 Elein Reavers: bows = 85
5 Elein Reavers: bows = 85

(704 Special)
14 Sword Masters: champ = 192
14 Sword Masters: champ = 192
5 Knights of Ryma: devastating charge, champ = 170
Sky Sloop = 70
Sky Sloop = 70

(200 Rare)
Frost Phoenix = 200



Leaving 246 points for the BSB. Some ideas:

BSB, Lion Chariot, Heavy Armor, Hardshield, Duskstone, lance = 245
BSB, Lion Chariot, DFA, Hardshield, Lucky Charm, Sword of Strength = 232
BSB, Lion Chariot, DFA, Daemonhunter's Helm, Lucky Charm, great weapon, 245

any other ideas? Or is he better on the Sloop? I'd have 226 points to play with there.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:09 pm 
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I would go Dragonforged Armour, 4+ Regen, Great Weapon.

Cannon are a huge issue and stone throwers are a problem. Spells like Molten Metal too.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:38 am 
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Hm, declaring a Hold with my swordmasters on turn 3 may have been smarter. They had a decent chance to break and survive, and the Warriors block would then have had to overrun into the reavers. Then a combined charge of phoenix, dragons/chariot, and Knights from the rear would have been guaranteed.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:53 pm 
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Okay, list revisions for upcoming game:


total: 2500

Characters 955
Prince: Dragon, great weapon, Lucky Shield, Divine Icon = 410
Mage: Fiery, L2, Young Dragon, Book = 330
Commander: BSB, Fleet Officer, Sloop, lance, HA, Hardshield, Lucky Charm = 215

Core 635
25 Coast Guard: HA, FC, Banner of Becalming = 380
5 Elein Reavers: bows = 85
5 Elein Reavers: bows = 85
5 Elein Reavers: bows = 85

Special 710
Knights of Ryma: devastating charge, champ = 170
10 Swordmasters: champ = 140
10 Swordmasters: champ = 140
Lion Chariot = 90
Sky Sloop = 70
Giant Eagle = 50
Giant Eagle = 50

Rare 200
Frost Phoenix = 200



So why the changes?

1. The swordmasters were too fat.
14 Swordmasters is a cool unit, but I'm not sure it's much better than 10, and it has some difficulty maneuvering (especially with a cluttered army list like this). So I dropped them down in size and used the extra 100 points for eagles. I like using eagles, and they will give me more versatility for war machine hunting and redirection/eagle hijinks. Cascade/placeholder charges are one of my favorite aspects of Warhammer, and the eagles will open up more opportunities to accomplish this. Additionally, I get more drops. An aggressive list like mine will benefit from this. I'll almost certainly be going last anyway, so extra drops just help me buy a bit more time before committing anything important.

Downgraded Dragon / added Lion Chariot
I discussed this before, but I think the Ancient Dragon is too polarizing for a friendly environment, and I like the Lion Chariot model though I rarely ever field it. I think it got some nice help with the T9A rules, so I want to utilize it. Downsizing the Swordmasters will allow the Lion Chariot a bit more room to operate, which is nice. If I took this list to a really competitive event, I'd probably switch out the Lion Chariot and field the Ancient Dragon after all.

Divine Icon on Prince
Definitely a solid choice for the Dragon. But mostly I just had an extra 15 points to burn.

Why all the champs?
Standards may probably be a bit better on a couple of these units, but I prefer the fluff for champions (plus again they got some love in T9A. WS7 infantry models are pretty cool!). And having someone to step up to a challenge is always nice. I could drop the Divine Icon to put the standard back on my Knights (for objectives), but I want to try out the Icon and see whether it might swing a combat.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:03 pm 
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Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
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Location: Otherworld
I've run both 10's and 14's of Swordmasters and I have to say the 14 is a cut above in combat. That said, this list has enough fast, powerful elements that it can get away with this cut I think. I take the point about maneouvering, especially with the Sea Guard around, though musicicians would mitigate this. The Lion Chariot looks interesting and well worth a try. Divine Icon could be great, though I'd prefer the 5+ Ward vs war machines for all-comers.

I like eagles and given a straight choice, would usually take them over Reavers. But I do feel the latter can do most eagle jobs. Given you've got three units in Core I worry that the eagles are overkill here. Is the upcoming game vs Warriors again Nicene?

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