Solith's Battle Blog: Game 18 - 2000 HE vs WE - 26/04

[solith]

Game 6 – High Elves vs Dwarfs – 1000 points

My second game from yesterday was against Louis and his new Dwarfs. My track record against him is amazingly close to 50:50. I don't keep proper records but we'll often get two fairly quick games back to back and one person will win each game.

My list:
Mage – level 2, Khaine’s Ring of Fury, Dispel Scroll – High magic (170)
12 Archers – musician (130)
6 Silver Helms – shield, standard, musician (158)
11 Swordmasters – standard, musician, Banner of Eternal Flame (173)
17 White Lions – full command, Gleaming Pennant (256)
8 Sisters of Avelorn

His list:
Runesmith – shield, 2 Runes of Spellbreaking, Rune of Stone (113)
27 Warriors - great weapons, full command (300)
12 Quarrellers – shields, banner (166)
Cannon - Rune of Forging, Rune of Burning (150)
Gyrocopter – vanguard (100)
Organ gun – Rune of Forging, Rune of Accuracy (170)


Deployment:


We rolled up battle line. The Dwarfs enjoyed the nice view from the hill while I deployed to attack, with my Silver Helms and Swordmasters to move up the flank while my White Lions would use their strider rule and enjoy the cover of the forest.

For my spells I had Fiery Convocation and Soul Quench. I would have vastly preferred to have Walk Between Worlds but sadly it was not to be.

The Gyrocopter vanguarded up to hide behind the house before the Dwarfs got the firs turn

Dwarfs turn 1:


The Gyrocopter flies over my lines, dropping it’s bombs on the way and killing 4 Sisters. With nothing better to shoot, the Organ Gun kills 3 Archers. The Cannon slightly overshoots my Mage and only kills a single White Lion.

High Elves turn 1:


I moved up with all my combat units. My Sisters headed towards the building but my Archers stayed back for greater accuracy. My Ring of Fury put one wound onto the Organ Gun, but when I tried to cast Fiery Convocation on the Warrior unit the Runesmith used his breaker rune to destroy the spell.

My shooting was all targeted on the Organ Gun but couldn’t land a wound.

Dwarfs turn 2:


The Warriors failed a swift reform while the Gyrocopter moved up to attack my Swordmasters.

In the shooting phase the Gyrocopter unleashed it’s steam gun. 9 dead Swordmasters later I’m wondering just what happened. The Quarrelers manage to finish off the remaining 2. The Cannon lands on target but I pass my Look Out Sir! roll and 3 White Lions die. Not to be outdone, the Organ Gun finishes off my remaining Archers. (I think, they don’t appear in any more of my pictures so either they die here or they simply hang back and do nothing for the rest of the game) Luckily I pass all the panic tests I’m required to make.

High Elves turn 2:


I’m still out of any likely charges so I advance for combat next turn. One more round of shooting and I can try to turn this around! Meanwhile, my Sisters jump into the nearby building.

My magic phase goes extremely well however. A bound Soul Quench finishes off the Organ Gun and then I unleash a boosted Soul Quench onto the Warrior unit which kills off ~11!

Dwarfs turn 3:


The Gyrocopter is just close enough to be able to march in front of my Silver Helms. The Warriors reform for more ranks in preparation for my White Lion’s charge and the Quarrellers reform to support later on.

In shooting the Cannon kills off another two White Lions in its quest to kill my Mage.

High Elves turn 3:


Time for some combat! My Silver Helms charge the Gyrocopter as they can’t wheel past it. I decide that I don’t want to charge my White Lions into the Warriors until my Silver Helms are free to support me so I charge the Quarrellers instead.

I’m unable to cast anything while in combat my my shooting either does nothing or kills ~1 Warrior.

In combat I kill 5 Quarrellers in exchange for 2 White Lions. The new shield wall rule proves it’s worth here! My Silver Helms however can’t inflict a single wound and both units hold.

Dwarfs turn 4:


Yet again the Warrior unit fails it’s swift reform test. The Cannon kills 3 of the remaining Sisters.

In combat 2 more White Lions die and I cut the Quarrellers down to ~3 remaining. In combat against the Gyrocopter I do nothing while a single Silver Helm falls.

High Elves turn 4:


My Silver Helms do what they do best and nothing happens in the combat. My White Lions finish off the Quarrelers before they can attack and I reform to face the Warriors.

Dwarfs turn 5:


The Warriors charge my White Lions. It’s a long enough charge that I can probably flee safely and I’m fairly certain that’s what I should do, but I decide to hold to see what happens.

The Cannon kills the single remaining Sister of Avelorn in a massive display of overkill.

In combat my Silver Helms again do nothing. I’m winning this combat by 1 every single round due to my banner and musician but while my opponent can’t pass his swift reform tests he seems unable to fail a break test.

I issue a challenge with my Mage to try to keep him alive and the Runesmith accepts. I do nothing and suffer a wound in return. My White Lions chop down ~8 Warriors before they lose 4.

High Elves turn 5 and Dwarf turn 6:


I resolve the Gycopter combat first and it’s exactly the same as before. I kill 3 Warriors before my Mage and two White Lions are killed. My surviving champion breaks and the Warriors pursue into my Silver Helms. In the following Dwarf turn my Silver helms are killed and/or ran down and I’m completely wiped out!



Well, I played that badly! I think that choosing to charge the Quarrellers was actually a bad choice. Without the additional casualties they caused I might have had the numbers to win combat sufficiently to break the Warriors.

My major mistake though was letting the Gyrocopter run wild. This thing needs to be dealt with somehow – ideally with my magic and/or shooting, but at the very least I should set up my forces in such a way that I can charge it with something (even my Archers) to hold it up while the rest of my army can do what they need to. However this still leaves the Organ Gun which also poses a big problem for me. I think I need more practise to learn how to deal with lists like this one.


I got another game against some Tzeentch Warriors today which will be written up at some point during the coming week.

[NexS]

I had a look at the new book yesterday, and i'm 100% surprised that Dwarf Warriors even got a look-in! There's no requirements to have warriors before Longbeards can be chosen, so I'd have thought that every dwarf army list would have at least 25% Longbeards....

[Ferny]

I felt reading it that charging the xbows was a good move because you had at least a turn of combat with them before the warriors would join in, rather than being counter charged by them immediately.

I was however very worried when I saw the gyro behind your lines and you move forward and not address it, although I appreciate it is a difficult unit to address once there, and I don't think there's much you could have done then! I think the key vs that unit is to deploy sufficiently deep that it cannot get behind your lines and you then force it to land close enough to receive a charge/flee. Helms would be key here as they can cover the most range for charging purposes.

Nice report

[RE.Lee]

That Gyrocopter is pretty tough! Wiping out the swordmasters, holding up the Helms - wasn't it supposed to be chaff?

[gaz]

What happened with that gyrocopter is why I opt for white lions and phoenix guard over swordmasters (though for me it's my friend's clouds of skinks that have butchered my SMs). Sucks when a main unit is rendered combat ineffective by chaff alone.
Thanks again for the report!

[solith]

@NesS
Yeah I think I'd be picking Longbeards as my default core choice. However, with great weapons I think Warriors are still a pretty good option - strength 5 (6 on the charge) is good enough against most things, especially with a Runepriest in the unit to give them armour piercing. Also, at low point games like this one you can very quickly end up with a tiny army and taking Warriors instead of Longbeards helps to solve that problem.

@Ferny
You make a good point about the counter-charge. It did feel like bouncing off a brick wall though, I expected to destroy the Quarrelers in one or two rounds of combat, but their parry saves and my reduced numbers made them a lot tougher than I'd expected. I probably hadn't thought things through properly however.

Yeah I really screwed up with my (complete lack of) handling the Gyrocopter. Between that and the Organ Gun it's a bit of a conundrum: do I slow down my advance to deal with the Gyrocopter and give the Organ Gun more time to shoot me, or do I advance on the Organ Gun as quickly as possible but let the Gyrocopter run free? Next game against the Dwarfs I think I'll try dealing wit the Gyrocopter as a priority. That flame template is pure murder on my High Elves!

@RE.Lee
Armoured, fire-breathing chaff that's powered by the tears of elves maybe.

@gaz
I tend to agree with you. Normally I'll use White Lions or Phoenix Guard, but occasionally I feel like bringing out my Swordmaster models. They rarely do much for me though so I should just leave them on the shelf. They're just too easy to kill with shooting.

[solith]

Game 7 – High Elves vs Dwarfs – 1000 points

Because the first game was over fairly quickly, me and Louis decided to have a rematch! We shuffled the terrain around a little but kept our lists the same.

My list:
Mage – level 2, Khaine’s Ring of Fury, Dispel Scroll – High magic (170)
12 Archers – musician (130)
6 Silver Helms – shield, standard, musician (158)
11 Swordmasters – standard, musician, Banner of Eternal Flame (173)
17 White Lions – full command, Gleaming Pennant (256)
8 Sisters of Avelorn

His list:
Runesmith – shield, 2 Runes of Spellbreaking, Rune of Stone (113)
27 Warriors - great weapons, full command (300)
12 Quarrellers – shields, banner (166)
Cannon - Rune of Forging, Rune of Burning (150)
Gyrocopter – vanguard (100)
Organ gun – Rune of Forging, Rune of Accuracy (170)

We ended up playing Blood and Glory, but forgot about it right after deployment so the game actually should have ended where it did.

Deployment:


Thinking that I had learned from my last game (I really hadn’t) I kept my Sisters back in a position to shoot at the Gyrocopter, but positioned the rest of my army to advance. The Gyrocopter vanguarded to behind the building.

I ended up with Walk Between Worlds and Soul Quench.

Dwarfs turn 1:


Once again, the Dwarfs got the first turn. The Gyrocopter flew over my lines while the rest of the Dwarf army held their ground.

Then the shooting phase began. My opponent began with the Gyrocopter and this time it only torched 6 helpless Swordmasters and a single Archer. The Quarrellers killed off three more Swordmaters and the Cannon took out 3 White Lions in its eternal quest to kill my Mage.

Finally, the Organ Gun rolled ~18 shots which utterly annihilated my Silver Helm unit. Seeing this, my Sisters failed their panic test and fled straight from the closes enemy unit – the Gyrocopter – ran right off the board.

Eerm… what just happened?

High Elves turn 1:


I marched everyone forward, needing to close the distance as fast as I could. I tried to cast Walk Between Worlds on my White Lions but it was scrolled, although thankfully the spell wasn’t destroyed. My other casting attempts were dispelled and I had no shooting.

Dwarfs turn 2:


Not wanting to spoil a good thing, the Dwarfs did a repeat performance. Between them, the Archers, Organ Gun and Quarrellers killed my remaining two Swordmasters and all but one Archer. The Cannon killed off another two White Lions. This time I passed all my panic tests.

High Elves turn 2:


I ran my single Archer behind the fence, hoping the cover might save him. The White Lions advanced. My magic phase again amounted to nothing.

Dwarfs turn 3:


The Warriors reformed, the Gyrocopter advanced and the Dwarfs set their sights.

First the Quarrellers finished off the remaining Archer. Then the Dwarven war machines opened fire, and when the smoke cleared a single White Lions could be seen fleeing from the sight of the massacre. (By the time the Cannon fired I was already fleeing and had too few rank-and-file models to get a Look Our Sir! save. To make matters worse, the angle I was fleeing presented a flank shot to the Cannon!)

We actually played another turn just to complete things but you can guess how that went. This was probably the quickest game of Warhammer I've ever played.


I hadn’t really learned a thing from the first game, it’s only in writing up these reports that I’m realised just how badly I played by letting the Gyrocopter roam free. In both games I think I should have deployed the Swordmasters further back and used them as a reserve force to deal with it. Alternatively, I could have just held back for a turn and used my entire shooting and magic phase to try to kill it. I’m not sure which approach would have been the better one and I think I’ll need to test it out and play differently.

I don’t want to blame my list for losing so badly, although having some Reavers and Phoenix Guard would probably have helped quite a bit. I’d rather focus on the things I could have done differently during the games to help me improve as a player.


Next game: Warriors of Tzeentch!

[RE.Lee]

Well...what can I say

Turn 1 was brutal and turns 2 & 3 were just rinse and repeat. You're list looks decent but just can't handle the Copter - the vanguard move makes it really influential. Isn't it just for half of the Gyrocopters in the list, though?

[solith]

Half rounding up get to vanguard.

Yeah it was brutal, I wasn't even sure about turning this game into a report because of how one sided it was but then I thought - it was a quick game, it wont take long to turn into a report!

I don't want to blame my list for me not being able to handle the 'Copter. As others have pointed out, I could have kept one or more units (Silver Helms or Swordmasters probably) deployed further back either as a deterrent or to counter-charge. I also could have used my brain and guessed where the Gyrocopter would have deployed + vanguarded and given that area a wide berth to begin with. All things I could have done better before going and blaming the list.

[siovim]

I'm thinking that you could try and deploy everything as far away from the deployment line as possible. This would leave the organ gun and quarellers out of range, giving you time to deal with the gyro if it vanguards as violently as in the two games before. The cannon will still pound you, but a list like yours should be able to cope with it.

after having dealt with the gyro, you can focus on taking down the organ gun with archers and magic this leaves most of the action to the later turns, if some major combat happens at all, but it would save you from being shot to pieces before you have a fighting chance.

[NexS]

... Ah Wha!

Out of curiosity, what exactly does the gyrocopter do?

Also, vs WoC - can't wait to read this one! I always struggle against Warriors so I'm interested to see how you deal with them!

[Jimmy]

Double ouch. 2-3 warmachines at this points level is a bit rude I think. So the Gyrocopter has a breath weapon every turn? That's balanced...

[Gandalf_82]

I've only had one game against the new Dwarves and I had similar problems with the Gyrocopter. I'm playing them again on Friday so i'll try and write up my first battle report over the weekend.

That looks brutal though, shows how dangerous they can be. I'd have run the SM's as a 6 and a 5 if I were you, keeping one of them in reserve to charge the Gyrocopter the moment it tries to get behind your lines and allowing the rest of your force to advance.

[solith]

@siovim
Hanging back like that is probably a good idea. I think I'm a bit hesitant to try it because it potentially creates a very boring game where both armies hang back and do very little. If leaving some units further back to counter the Gyrocopter doesn't work I think this'll be next on the list of tactics to try. It's certainly a smarter option that just charging blindly into some awaiting guns like I have been doing.

@NexS
The Gyrocopter is like a Great Eagle. Except it has toughness 5; and a 3+ armour save; and a (strength 4? strength 3 armour piercing?) breath weapon that it can use repeatedly; and bombs it can drop even if it marches; and half the Gyrocopters in the army, rounding up can buy a vanguard upgrade.

All for a mere 30 points more than an Eagle.

I would be crying over these so much except that I think Dwarfs really need them. Not only are they really good but they add an extra element of playstyle etc to the Dwarf army that I think it might otherwise lack and I much prefer the Dwarf army book having Gyrocopters as they are than not having them at all.

@Jimmy
I've talked with my opponent about lists and this sort of came up. I actually disagree with you here. Yes, 2-3 war machines is a lot at 1000 points and you can end up with one sided games like the one above. However, my opinion is that Dwarf armies either need to go all out aggressive with vanguarding units, Miners, Rangers etc; or they need to have the more shooty army. A Dwarf army that is slow and gets out-shot is an army that can't really do much.

We played a few games before where my opponent didn't take the Cannon and only had the Quarrelers and Organ Gun to shoot with while I had a pair of Bolt Throwers. With the extra 18" range I had over his shooting I realised I could castle up in a corner and grab a minor win by shooting down one unit. (Though I didn't actually do this in the end ) With the Cannon in the list, I can't do that.

He hasn't gone full gunline and I think with a change of tactics (or lists) I can do a lot better so I'm certainly not complaining about the war machines.

@Gandalf_82
I've found writing up battle reports really helps show me just what I did wrong - it's a really useful learning tool.

Good suggestion with splitting the Swordmasters up. It would give a lot more tactical options as you've suggested. I would have to be careful that I don't cause panic tests when the small units get destroyed (no BSB at 1000 points) but it's probably worth trying at some point.

[Aicanor]

Copter actually has 4+ armour save and Steamgun is S 3 armour piercing. Vanguard is paid in points so it costs two Eagles.
Had a 1500 game against Dwarves lately. He had a Bomber and I must say that is slightly less scary for us than a humble Copter.
We definitely need something to deal with these annoying contraptions or pin them in place. But so far I have this feeling our best option to deal with it is Searing Doom or equivalent, combined with shooting.
Do you think a deeper deployment would help? Did you miss second cavalry unit, an Eagle or rather 4++ PG?

[John Rainbow]

Wow that Gyro stole the show! I have a feeling I will be playing Dwarfs sometime soon and need to figure out how to deal with these guys too. T5 on them is a real pain. My unit of 24 Archers will only put 1W on one of them if I face any. It doesn't really get much better for RBTs - 4 of them shooting 6 shots only does 3.33 wounds (I assumed both units hitting on 4s here).

[Aicanor]

Gyro only has 2 S4 attacks if you manage to pin it down, but with its movement that may prove tricky. Perhaps keep an Eagle behind our ranks for this?

[Ferny]

@siovim
Hanging back like that is probably a good idea. I think I'm a bit hesitant to try it because it potentially creates a very boring game where both armies hang back and do very little. If leaving some units further back to counter the Gyrocopter doesn't work I think this'll be next on the list of tactics to try. It's certainly a smarter option that just charging blindly into some awaiting guns like I have been doing.

If that creates a boring game then it is an artefact of the way the dwarf/gunline list works and one of the reasons why it is so hated. I read a report recently (possibly Tethlis, possibly Axiem, but I think Tethlis) where he fought dwarfs and deployed deep to cover the angles and allow a counter charge. Looking at ranges, if he deploys on the line (12"), moves up full vanguard (12") and then marches (20") you pretty much can't stop him bombing forward and steaming a single unit of his choice, if that's how he decides to play it. If I were him and if I were planning that, then the SM are the obvious target (PG/WL/heavy cav all survive better, archers are less worth it, though still viable). But if you deploy deep you can cover all your angles and ensure the T1 charge which will either kill it or tie it in place. A small unit of helms would be ideal for this, given their long threat range and that you can predict where the copter will aim for and funnel it there. Is its attack flaming? If so, dragon princes even better!

And I hadn't realised how short range the artillery was, but I agree with the suggestion that you can stay out of range of OG and xbows and just suck up cannonballs. Oddly, the dwarven gunline lacks range with the new toys, assuming they don't revert back to grudge throwers from flame cannons and OGs. It means you can sit back and take out gyros before advancing into the valley of death if you decide to (or force them to come to you - you're up on gyro points anyway - worst case scenario is a draw...do it enough and they'll change their list ).

[solith]

@Aicanor
Oops, I remembered the Gyrocopter's stats wrong. Thanks!
I think the Gyrocopter does make the best Searing Doom target in the Dwarf army with it's decent armour save and few wounds. Heavens magic with Thunderbolt / Chain Lightning will probably do well against it also.

A second cavalry unit though would have helped me a lot here. I could have deployed the Silver Helms back and hope my charge can kill or break the Gyrocopter while I used some Reavers to threaten the artillery. Phoenix Guard are also probably the answer to everything. I actually try to avoid taking them in low point games because of how good they are. Sadly I don't own any Eagles atm, but I think they're the cheapest answer we have to Gyrocopters - once you engage the Gyrocopter in combat the Eagle will tie it up for quite a while before either manages to kill the other.

@John Rainbow
Unless you have a particularly durable army (lots of Phoenix Guard and cavalry etc) I reckon it's worth dealing with them as a priority. It only has a 4+ armour save so massed attacks should bring one down. The Gyrocopter is all but incapable of winning combat against anything with a banner or a rank so if you can charge one with any small unit of Archers etc they'll hold it up for the entire game.

Magic is the other answer I think. Massed magic missiles; anything from Heavens; Searing Doom; Death snipes etc.

Or as Aicanor says, a single Eagle should tie a Gyrocopter up for long enough that it isn't an issue.

@Ferny
The Gyrocopter can't use its breath weapon if it marches, so it has a limited threat range in turn 1. It can still drop it's bombs if it marches however and those can still hurt. I have no idea if the breath weapon is flaming.

Actually, from reading your post I could use the Swordmasters as bait. Deploy them so that he can go after them with the Gyrocopter, but to do so he has to land right in the open where I can counter-charge. It's an expensive unit to use as bait to be sure, but at this point anything is better than nothing.

As you say though, a better (and deeper) deployment will probably help a lot.

While Organ Guns and Flame Cannons seem to be the new black when it comes to Dwarven artillery and they're both capped at 30" range or less, they still have Cannons which will probably win an artillery war against our Bolt Throwers. (Or at least it's too risky to be worth gambling your entire tactics on winning an artillery duel)



Thanks for all the feedback and comments guys! It's great and is helping me quite a lot.

In other news, that Gyrocopter has now been given the name "The Scourge of Hoeth"

[solith]

Game 8 – High Elves vs Warriors of Chaos – 1500 points

This game was played on Sunday against Jesse and his Warriors of Tzeentch. Stilly hyped about my cavalry Prince I brought him out again. I actually used the same list as my game against the Warriors of Nurgle.

My list:
Prince – barded steed, heavy armour, shield, Giant Blade, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Potion of Foolhardiness (276)
Noble – barded steed, dragon armour, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Golden Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster’s Shard (170)
Mage – level 2, Khaine’s Ring of Fury, Dispel Scroll – High Magic (170)
8 Silver Helms – shields, full command (214)
5 Reavers – bows only, musician (95)
12 Archers – musician (130)
20 White Lions – full command, Banner of Swiftness (305)
Repeater Bolt Thrower
Repeater Bolt Thrower

His list: (Probably missing some details. The Sorcerer probably had the Earthing Rod and maybe a ward save as well, but neither me nor my opponent can remember for sure.)
Sorcerer Lord – level 4, Charmed Shield, Mark of Tzeentch – Lore of Tzeentch
Exalted Hero – BSB, Demonic Mount, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Soul Feeder, Mark of Tzeentch
19 Warriors of Chaos, shields, full command, Standard of Discipline, Mark of Tzeentch
5 Warhounds – vanguard, scaled skin
5 Warhounds – scaled skin
Chaos Chariot
Gorebeast Chariot
5 Knights of Chaos, musician, standard, Ensorcelled Weapons, Mark of Tzeentch

Deployment:


With the forest in the middle and the fence on my left flank, there was one clear path between our lines that wouldn’t cause dangerous terrain tests on all of the cavalry and Chariots we both had so I was fairly sure the Chariots and Knights would be deployed on that flank. Not only would deploying my cavalry there mean I wouldn’t take dangerous terrain, my Giant Blade was possibly my best counter to the Knights and Chariots. My White Lions deployed to take advantage of the forest. (Between Strider and Stubborn forests pose no threat to these guys, it’s awesome!) With the terrain being so central, my Bolt Throwers couldn’t get great lines of fire so I split them up to be on each flank.

My spell selection was pretty much perfect: Hand of Glory and Arcane Unforging.
He rolled up Infernal Gateway, Tzeentch’s Firestorm, Blue Fire of Tzeentch and Glean Magic.

After vanguards I luckily got the first turn.

High Elves turn 1:


I advanced cautiously, intending to clear out the Warhounds before engaging the rest of my opponent’s army. I made sure my cavalry weren't blocking the right Bolt Thrower and that my Mage would be in range of his BSB.

In my magic phase I cast Arcane Unforging on his BSB and he was unable to dispel it! I inflicted a wound, which he promptly saved with his ridiculous ward save. Then I rolled a 1 and didn’t destroy anything. With no dispel dice left, I was then free to boost my right hand Bolt Thrower’s BS by 2.

My Archers were able to panic the right hand Warhounds but my Bolt Throwers were unable to hurt the BSB.

Warriors of Chaos turn 1:


The right Warhounds failed to rally and fled off the table. Feeling a bit exposed, the BSB rushed ahead. The rest of the Warriors’ army stayed out of charge range of my Prince. The left Warhounds discovered that the forest was a regular forest.

Magic was a complete failure as Infernal Gateway failed to cast on ~5 dice.

High Elves turn 2:


My White Lions and Archers shuffled backwards. My Silver Helms and Reavers shuffled forwards.

In my magic phase I displayed my tactical brilliance by throwing 6 dice at Arcane Unforging at the BSB. Again, my opponent was unable to dispel it and again he ward saved the wound. However I was able to roll the 2+ I needed to destroy an item. Saying “watch how this destroys the Enchanted Shield” I rolled a 6 and destroyed the Talisman of Preservation! A bound Soul Quench was then able to kill off the Warhounds.

One Bolt Thrower missed the BSB and the other’s single shot was ward saved with a 6 thanks to the Mark of Tzeentch, but then my Archers actually snuck a wound through his armour save!

Warriors of Chaos turn 2:


The BSB declared a charge against my Archers and I fled. He then re-directed into the White Lions. The Warrior unit advanced to tempt my cavalry into charging through the forest while the Chariots moved into position to counter charge.

This magic phase was quite tense for me because with my Mage fleeing I had no magic defence to speak of. This time the Sorcerer Lord managed better than last turn. A mighty strength 2 Infernal Gateway on the Silver Helms did precisely nothing and I was able to dispel everything else.

In combat the BSB killed 5 White Lions without rolling any sixes for his Soul Feeder. In return I was able to do another wound. The beast was going down!

High Elves turn 3:


I contemplated charging my cavalry into the Warriors. A successful charge would effectively end the Warriors’ magic phase – and given long enough Infernal Gateway eventually would do some serious damage to me so it was a real temptation – but I wasn’t sure I could break through the Warrior unit in a single round of combat. Getting counter charged by one Chariot would be fine, but both at once would be a problem.

Instead, I reformed and backed off. My Archers rallied.

I rolled quite high for the winds of magic and with a single spell in range (Hand of Glory) I had the choice of either going for an Irresistible Force or not casting at all. I decided to do nothing.

My Archers did nothing to the Warriors but the left Bolt Thrower was able to inflict one wound. The right Bolt Thrower missed the Gorebeast Chariot completely.

In combat the BSB was again able to kill 5 White Lions while I was unable to inflict that final wound. At least he again failed to recover any wounds with Soul Feeder.

Warriors of Chaos turn 3:


The Warrior unit advanced further into the forest while the rest shuffled around to gain better angles.

In the magic phase I was forced to use my Scroll to stop Infernal Gateway from hitting my Silver Helms. I was able to stop the rest using dice.

In combat a further 3 White Lions died, again with Soul Feeder doing nothing. I was finally able to kill the BSB with my return attacks though. Even without its 3+ ward save the BSB chewed through more than half my unit before finally dying, this guy is tough!

High Elves turn 4:


I realised my Reavers were too far back and didn’t have the movement to reach anywhere helpful from their current position so I reformed them 2 wide and moved them up a bit. The rest of my forces moved around a little.

I successfully cast Hand of Glory on my right hand Bolt Thrower.

Even with Hand of Glory my right Bolt Thrower was unable to hurt the Gorebeast Chariot. The entire rest of my shooting phase managed to bring down a single Warrior.

Warriors of Chaos turn 4:


The Warrior unit reformed to let the Sorcerer target my White Lions. The various cavalry units moved up.

In the magic phase I was unable to stop an Infernal Gateway (3D6 strength 10 hits!) from wiping the remnants of my White Lions from the board. All their hard work killing the BSB and they’re gone just like that.

I roughly guessed the points at this point and realised that I was roughly 100 points ahead, but perhaps not enough to earn a win. I also may have lost track of turns and thought this was only turn 3. Either way, at this point I decided that I needed to do something more to win this game and I couldn't rely on my Bolt Throwers to earn me any points.

High Elves turn 5:


I ran my Reavers out and formed a single line to block off the Warrior’s cavalry. The Gorebeast Chariot would probably be able to fit past the Reavers, but I left the space open so that my Bolt Thrower wouldn’t suffer from hard cover from my own unit. My Silver Helms advanced enough so that any overruns from the Chaos cavalry killing my Reavers was possible but unlikely to reach me. I was confident in my Prince’s ability to tackle the Chaos units and I decided that I would be fine with a single unit overrunning into my Silver Helms, but that two units would pose a problem.

In the magic phase I used Arcane Unforging to put a wound onto the Gorebeast Chariot.

My right Bolt Thrower put two more wounds onto the Gorebeast Chariot while the rest of my shooting killed 3 more Warriors.

Warriors of Chaos turn 5:


The Knights charged my Reavers but the Chariots both backed off.

In the magic phase Infernal Gateway was either stopped or did nothing.

The Knights predictably flattened the Reavers but decided to hold their position.

High Elves turn 6:


I saw that if I charged the Warrior unit and they held, the Knights wouldn’t be able to see my cavalry and I’d be safe from them. I decided the risk of getting two Chariots charging my flank was worth it and declared a charge on the Warrior unit. They fled. At the time I was very surprised by this but it probably was the right choice for my opponent to make. I redirected into the Knights, who also fled. They ran straight through both Chariots and the regular Chariot failed it’s panic test and went straight off the board!

I advanced my Archers up, making sure to keep my Bolt Thrower’s sights clear. My magic and shooting however weren’t able to hurt the Gorebeast Chariot.

Warriors of Chaos turn 6:


The Warrior unit rallied and turned to face me, but the Knights carried on fleeing right off the board!

In the magic phase Tzeentch’s Firestorm killed off all but one Archer, but under the watchful gaze of my general and BSB they held firm. We weren’t sure if this was turn 5 or 6, but we decided to play on regardless.

High Elves turn 7:


My cavalry unit tried to charge the Warriors but they were too far away and the charge fell short. I separated my Mage and remaining Archer to try and preserve points.

Both of my Bolt Throwers were unable to take the remaining two wounds off the Gorebeast Chariot.

Warriors of Chaos turn 7:


With this being the last turn, the Sorcerer Lord left his unit and was just able to get into range of my Mage.

As the final act of the game the Sorcerer Lord blasted my poor Mage to pieces.

We totaled up the victory points and it was a victory for the High Elves!




I think I was quite lucky in this game. Firstly in getting Arcane Unforging as one of my spells (the game would likely have been very different without it) and secondly with how unlucky my opponent was in trying to kill my Silver Helms. If he had managed a decent Infernal Gateway and had brought the unit down to only a few Silver Helms left then the Chariots would have had an easy time finishing off the rest with impact hits.

It’s interesting to note just how big an impact my Prince (and his Giant Blade!) had on the game, despite never getting into combat. The entire armoured might of the Warriors was too wary of his damage to properly advance. The cavalry unit with its movement 9 and swiftstride projects a HUGE threat bubble that ended up completely dominating this game.



While things worked in my favour, I’m not certain I played this as well as I could have. I probably should have been more aggressive with my cavalry, but I think that towards the end I lost track of how few turns remained.

My big question though is: should I have ran my cavalry over towards my left flank to engage the Warriors in turn 3-4? I’m actually not sure if I had the more ranged army in this game. Some good rolls and that Tzeentch Sorcerer can do more damage than my entire shooting phase so engaging him earlier on would help to prevent that.

We actually rolled out a combat between my cavalry and his Warrior unit to see what would have happened. Essentially, it’s a combat I should always win (especially if I get the charge) but I probably need to cause some casualties from magic/shooting beforehand to stop them from being Steadfast. If I can charge the Warriors without both Chariots being able to counter-charge me afterwards it’s probably worth doing, but is this something worth trying more aggressively or was I right to play as cautiously as I did?

[Jimmy]

Hey Solith

Let it be known you’re keeping me sane at work with the amount of battle reports you’re posting – great work and very entertaining! Also there is something very entertaining about the small forces at the 1500 points level that I really enjoy.

Great setup and deployment thoughts, did you ever think about deploying the archers closer to the tower and garrison it at a later stage perhaps enticing a charge from the enemy allowing you to counter charge?

That enemy BSB was really beginning to be a pain in the backside, thankfully you managed to drop him at the cost of a lot of White Lions however.

Turned out to be a real stand off until you ran the Reavers up to force a reaction. Well done on getting the win.

Looking forward to the next report.

[solith]

Coming from the battle report master himself this is high praise!

I hadn't considered putting the Archers in the tower at all but it's a great idea. It may have forced me to deploy the Mage with the White Lions to keep him in range if I had done that, but it's a better use for the Archers than I put them to.

The whole stand-off thing was an interesting showcase of how much impact the Prince had without actually doing anything. I never considered an elf to be that much of a threat - especially when compared to Chaos Lords, Vampire Lords, Demon Princes etc - but he does have a significant impact on the battlefield.

I'm up to date on reporting games, but I'll hopefully get in a game or two at the weekend.

[Gandalf_82]

I'll second that Jimmy, Great having these regular reports to read!

I usually only play 2-2.4k games as well so it's nice and refreshing reading about smaller battles. I've got a game tomorrow night and depending on how long that takes I may suggest we squeeze in a smaller game after!

In turn 3 you said you considered charging the warriors to take out his magic phase, but instead backed off. Did you consider charging either of his chariots or the knights instead and trying to roll up his flank? Or were they out of range/didnt think it was worth it? I'm quite a cautious player so I think i'd have done the same thing as you and backed off, but I often look back at my games (especially losses) and think I should have been a bit more aggressive, especially with Cav.

[RE.Lee]

Going strong with the battle reports, I see

Nice win - a shame the White Lions didn't make it, but their sacrifice will not be forgotten!

[Targ Ironfist]

Hey, Solith,

thanks for those nice reports.

Dawi reports: In small battles, dawi have to have strong shooting to force the enemy to come forward. They can cover too little ground so are goig to be hopelessly outmanouvered by any marginaly able elgi general, should they try the vanguard approach.

Gyro breath weapon is not flaming. Just a normal template S3, AP. Great against all pointy eared infantry. But swordmasters are the best target.

Vanguarding gyro: You have most tools to prevent this - shadow warriors -occupy that house You have there in the middle and watch gyro wasting its points spent on the vanguard upgrade. (Vanguard is after scout deploy. Can not move within 12" of an enemy...)

Cleverly positioned RBTs and Sisters make this tactic a pretty suicidal one.

Organ gun: When there are runes on it (and there must be to make it realy effective) it´s shooting becomes magical. Certain banner is a cure for that...

Exactly Your army has best ways to deal with OGs.
BotWD on lions + a unit of Phoenix guard with mage. Rest advances behind these guys.
OG is on BS now. -2 to hard cover or 3+ and 2+ ward saves.

Chaos warrior game:

Good use of the Unforging.

I think You should have charged those warriors when in the forest. No steadfast for them. That cavalry prince is pretty scary.

Thanks for solid reports.

With regards

[solith]

@Gandalf_82
Thank you!
Smaller games can be fun. They're also tricky in that you can never fit in all the toys you want. You can't fit a lord level caster and a Prince for example so taking the cavalry Prince means no level 4 and no Book of Hoeth and I like how it forces you to carefully pick your lists.

I don't remember exactly, but I think the charge onto the Knights or Chariots was too far to be a likely charge. Also the price of failing the charge - all of the Knights and Chariots charging me in return - was quite high and so I didn't think it was worth the risk. Yes, connecting a charge then would probably have won me the game quite decisively but it felt like a huge gamble.

@RE.Lee
Yup.

If any had survived they would be telling me "See? This is why we fled in the last game! You put us through things like this!"

@Targ Ironfist
Thank you!
I agree the Dwarf army needs to have more shooting than mine, else it becomes a very one-sided game.

Thanks for clearing up the Gyrocopter rules. I think I need to buy some Shadow Warriors!

I don't like taking the Banner in 1000 point games. You are right though, if I build my army properly I don't have to fear Organ Guns. I can also use Miasma or Iceshard Blizzard to reduce their damage.


The Warrior unit was never more than 50% in the forest. They were in the forest just enough to gain cover saves but not enough for no steadfast. I probably should have moved my cavalry closer to the Warriors so that I could try to charge them if they ever went into the forest though.




I played two games yesterday, and I think I'll write both up during the week. Both games with the cavalry Prince and both (I think) show that I have a lot to learn in how best to use him.

[Ferny]

The Warrior unit was never more than 50% in the forest. They were in the forest just enough to gain cover saves but not enough for no steadfast. I probably should have moved my cavalry closer to the Warriors so that I could try to charge them if they ever went into the forest though.

I played two games yesterday, and I think I'll write both up during the week. Both games with the cavalry Prince and both (I think) show that I have a lot to learn in how best to use him.

I thought if you even just clipped the forest it was enough?

Looking forward to the next two reports. I don't enjoy 1500 to play so much, but I'm finding it's the perfect size for reading reports on (also helps that they're well written, so kudos due too).

[solith]

It's the majority. (Page 119) It's also worth noting that this is will be worked out when the unit is required to take a break test; so even if you engage an enemy unit that is not over 50% in the forest, you may be able to kill enough that the survivors are 50% or more in the forest.

Thanks! I'm never sure how much to put into reports - I don't like it so much when they're purely factual but I usually don't want something too lengthy and rambling either.

[solith]

Game 9 – High Elves vs Warriors of Chaos – 1500

More Warriors of Chaos! This time against Francisco and his followers of Nurgle. Again I took the exact same list as before.

My list:
Prince – barded steed, heavy armour, shield, Giant Blade, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Potion of Foolhardiness (276)
Noble – barded steed, dragon armour, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Golden Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster’s Shard (170)
Mage – level 2, Khaine’s Ring of Fury, Dispel Scroll – High Magic (170)
8 Silver Helms – shields, full command (214)
5 Reavers – bows only, musician (95)
12 Archers – musician (130)
20 White Lions – full command, Banner of Swiftness (305)
Repeater Bolt Thrower
Repeater Bolt Thrower

His list: (From memory so some upgrades/items/gifts are no doubt missing or wrong)
Chaos Lord – 1+ armour save, Obsidian Blade, Talisman of Preservation, Mark of Nurgle
20 Warriors of Chaos – shields, full command, Standard of Discipline, Mark of Nurgle
5 Warhounds – vanguard
5 Warhounds – vanguard
5 Knights of Chaos – ensorcelled weapons, musician, standard, (Gleaming Pennant?) Mark of Nurgle
Gorebeast Chariot – Mark of Nurgle
Chimera – breath weapon, regeneration

Deployment:


With the hill being the obvious place to deploy my Bolt Throwers, I was expecting my opponent to deploy the Chimera behind the tower opposite them to cover it’s advance. I was then completely thrown off when he deployed it as his second drop in the opposite corner. I deployed my cavalry on my right flank to stop it from flying to behind the small house and then breathing on the White Lions. I still can’t tell if this was a good thing for me to do.

I ended up with Arcane Unforging and Apotheosis, and decided to keep both of them.

I vanguarded my Reavers behind my lines to move them to where they were needed on my left flank. Then my opponent crucially won the first turn.

Warriors of Chaos turn 1:


With my opponent having no magic or shooting, his turns were incredibly short. The right Warhounds moved to block my cavalry, with the Chimera landing in the forest for cover and an easy charge next turn. The Knights were forced to reform to be able to fit between the Chariot and the building.

High Elves turn 1:


After much dithering, I charged in with my cavalry. I worked out beforehand that a long overrun would take me out of the Chimera’s charge arc, but I was actually counting on remaining within the charge arc. Presenting a flank charge for the Chimera would be a very tempting target and would keep the beast from crushing my White Lion unit and I thought that my characters and static combat res would see the Chimera off in a turn or two.

With no ranged threats to worry him, my Mage was free to leave the White Lions and run solo.

In the magic phase I was able to cast Arcane Unforging on the Chaos Lord. We usually play with closed lists so this was when I found out that the Chaos Lord had the Obsidian Blade. *gulp* An unusual choice, but terrifying for my cavalry. Luckily my Mage solved that problem and broke the weapon. Huzzah! A follow up bound Soul Quench killed three Warriors.

In the shooting phase my Archers were able to panic off the dogs. Between them my Bolt Throwers put ~three wounds onto the Gorebeast Chariot.

My cavalry unit predicably slaughtered the Hounds and overran a fairly short distance.

Warriors of Chaos turn 2:


The Chimera charged the flank of my cavalry. One Knight tripped over the fence as the rest of the Warriors’ army advanced.

In combat I made way with both characters. Between them they were only able to put a single wound past the Chimera’s regen, and while its attacks did nothing (my opponent got a single hit out of 7 attacks!) it’s breath weapon killed three of my Silver Helms. The Chimera won combat and I reformed to face it.

High Elves turn 2:


Needing to roll ~8 to make it, I declared a charge from my White Lions onto the Chaos Knights. I would be vulnerable to the Gorebeast Chariot’s countercharge, but this was the only way to protect my shooting until my cavalry was free to help out. Luckily I made the charge!

My Reavers moved to block the Warrior unit.

My magic did absolutely nothing. The Chariot was getting hard cover from my White Lions and I didn’t like the odds of hurting it, so I focused my shooting onto the Warrior unit and killed 7.

In combat I put two wounds onto the Chimera. In return it was able to kill three Silver Helms, but that wasn’t enough and it fled off the table. My White Lions rolled a 9 and failed their fear test. Now hitting on 6’s they were only able to kill a single Knight, suffering three casualties in return. I only won combat by ~1 and the Knights held. Not the result I was hoping for!

Warriors of Chaos turn 3:


The Warriors’ made both charges.

The Warriors vs Reavers combat went exactly as you’d expect. In the other combat, I failed my fear test again with a 9 and wasn’t able to get a single wound past the Knight’s armour save. Between the impact hits, the Knights and the Chariot itself 12 White Lions were killed.Needless to say, the followers of Nurgle won combat. “Never mind” I thought, “I’m stubborn!”

You guessed it: ’9’. Three failed leadership tests in a row. We randomized the direction and they fled away from the Chariot, but were caught and run down.

High Elves turn 3:


The picture is slightly off, but the house was just managing to block the line of sight from my cavalry to the Warrior unit so I couldn’t charge in. Damn. Instead I was forced to run behind the unit to charge in next turn. I wheeled my Archers forwards, but not far enough as it turned out. I positioned my Mage so that only the Warrior unit could charge him and that he could then flee between the Bolt Throwers and to safety.

In the magic phase I cast Arcane Unforging on the Chaos Lord again, inflicting a wound this time but failing to destroy any items.

My entire shooting unloaded on the Gorebeast Chariot and did nothing.

Warriors of Chaos turn 4:


The Warrior unit charged my Mage but my plan worked and he fled to safety and the Warrior unit stumbled forwards a few inches and remained in easy charge range of my cavalry. The Gorebeast Chariot was just able wheel past my Archer unit to charge the further of my Bolt Throwers, clearing the path for the Knights to charge my Archers.

In combat, the Knights killed ~6 Archers for no casualties in return, but I was steadfast and held. Denied impact hits the Gorebeast Chariot was only able to inflict one wound on my Bolt Thrower, and the crew did one back! I held here as well, which actually denied me any targets for my other Bolt Thrower to shoot at in my turn.

High Elves turn 4:


I charged my cavalry into the rear of the Warrior unit. My Mage rallied

I cast Apotheosis onto the Bolt Thrower in combat with the Gorebeast Chariot to give me one more attack to try and kill the beast!

The Knights chopped up my Archers and the remining few fled from the table. My Bolt Thrower crew failed to kill the Chariot and it did its job properly and finished off my war machine. This panicked my mage who fled off the table.

In the main combat, the champion of the Warrior unit issued a challenge and I decided to accept with my BSB. I killed his champion, and between them my Prince and Silver Helms killed 4 Warriors. In return, both Silver Helms were killed. The Warrior unit was steadfast and reformed to face me.

Warriors of Chaos turn 5:


The Chaos Knights couldn’t fit into my front arc so couldn’t join the combat against my characters and so were forced to move up.

The Gorebeast Chariot killed off my remaining Bolt Thrower. In the main combat the Chaos Lord issued a challenge. Forced to accept with someone, I accepted with my Prince. I was able to put a single wound through without taking any in return. My BSB killed off a single Warrior and was forced to use his Golden Crown.

High Elves turn 5:


Absolutely nothing happened.

Warriors of Chaos turn 6:


The Knights charged in for the extra combat res. Our lords again did nothing to each other but this time my BSB killed off two Warriors.

High Elves turn 6:


In the final round of combat, I was able to kill off the foul Lord of Nurgle! My BSB killed one more Warrior and I won combat. The Warrior unit fled, killing the banner and leaving JUST the musician alive, but the Knights held!


We totalled it up and the Warriors had won! I think that single remaining Warrior was worth enough victory points by himself to swing the game completely round to become a victory to the Asur, but it was not to be.

I’m certainly not going to blame luck on this one. Yes, if I had killed a single extra Warrior I probably would have won. Yes, if my White Lions could actually pass a leadership test things might have gone differently. On the other hand, the Chimera could have completely killed off one of my cavalry characters and if I hadn’t destroyed the Chaos Lord’s weapon he would have utterly wrecked my characters.

Things I could have done differently though:

I probably could have deployed differently. Swapping the White Lions and cavalry would have changed the game significantly. With the Chimera already deployed, I could have set up the White Lions to be outside of a turn 1 breath weapon attack but in range to charge the Chimera should it move forwards aggressively. My cavalry would have had little trouble against the Chaos Knights and so my left flank might have held together during the game.

The biggest thing though is that I need to pay more attention to the exact placement of units. Moving my Archers forwards just half an inch more in turn 3 would have kept my Bolt Throwers alive for a turn more. Reforming my cavalry to be 2 wide in my turn 2 would have left them able to see past the building to be able to charge the Warrior unit in the rear. Not only that, it would have kept the final two Silver Helms out of combat and let my tougher characters take the hits. Very simple changes that would have helped me immensely.


The other thing this game highlights is how much I could use my BSB being closer to the rest of my army. I could take him off his horse and give him the Reaver Bow, but I really like having him in the cavalry unit with this list. It adds more non-charging punch to the unit, gives them The Other Trickster's Shard and puts someone in the unit that can accept challenges away from my Prince that is more durable than a champion.

The other options though are to keep my cavalry unit closer to my lines which is certainly an option. Just because the unit has such incredible speed doesn't mean they need to be charging off against the first target they see, but their huge potential reach puts pressure on my opponents and gives me more options.

Finally though, I think I'll be swapping the Banner of Swiftness for either the Standard of Discipline or more likely the Gleaming Pennant. I've found I'm not getting much use out of the Banner of Swiftness so far and I could really use the leadership help.

[Gandalf_82]

Sounds a fun game mate. Until I read the final line of your post I was going to suggest if you continue to keep the BSB in the SH's that you should consider swapping the banner of Swiftness for something to help with those leadership tests. Still, three fails in a row is bad luck!

It's frustrating when the smallest of errors costs you, but all part of the learning curve I guess.

For the White Lions fleeing, why did you randomize the direction? Am I right is saying the rule is that you flee directly away from the biggest unit in combat? Or is it just the most ranks? So you randomized because there was nothing in it between the chariot and the knights?