Rise of the Anointed!

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pk-ng
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Rise of the Anointed!

#1 Post by pk-ng »

Table of Contents
Anointed Builds
Battle Standard Bearer Builds
Core, Special & Rare Rationale
Winds of Magic Phoenix Effect Chart
Game 1 vs High Elves - Elessheta
Game 2 vs Dwarves - panterq
Game 3 vs Daemons of Chaos - Chaosguy
Game 4 vs The Empire - swietabarbara
Game 5 vs Dark Elves - atei
Game 6 vs Vampire Counts - Lkhero
Game 7 vs Dark Elves - replica
Game 8 vs Warriors of Chaos - swietabarbara
Game 9 vs Beastmen of Chaos - Siric The Red
Game 10 - vs Dark Elves - LegendBound
Game 11 - vs Lizardmen - Orion76
Game 12 - vs Daemons of Chaos - Hovado2
Game 13 - vs JustMust - vs Warriors of Chaos
Game 14 - vs groedius - vs Brettonia

Current Army 22 March 2014

Characters
[550] Anointed of Frostheart Phoenix - Blade of the Leaping Gold, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield
[166] Noble Battle Standard Bearer on Barded Elven Steed - Star Lance, Dragonhelm, Potion of Foolhardiness, Luckstone, Heavy Armour, Shield
[145] Level 2 Light Mage - Khaine's Ring of Fury
[170] Level 2 Light Mage - Ruby Ring of Ruin, Dispel Scroll

Core
[180] 17x Archers - Musician
[260] 10x Silver Helms - Full Command, Shields
[85] 5x Ellyrian Reavers - Swap for bow
[80] 5x Ellyrian Reavers

Special
[314] 18x White Lions of Chrace - Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon

Rare
[240] 1x Frostheart Phoenix
[70] 1x Repeater Bolt Thrower
[70] 1x Repeater Bolt Thrower
[70] 1x Repeater Bolt Thrower

Points: 2400
Last edited by pk-ng on Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:04 am, edited 25 times in total.
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#2 Post by pk-ng »

Greetings Fellow Ulthuans!

With the new book coming out and rumours becoming more and more solid I would like to start a blog that centers around the Anoited of Asuryan on a Frostheart Phoenix (AFP). I've always been a dragon player but with the new book I do not think the Prince on Star Dragon is a viable build for 2400 (the usual points brackets I play in / ETC). The Prince is 70 skavenslaves (ss) and the Star Dragon is a whopping 195ss which leaves the Prince with only 70 points to kit out. With the lost of certain items (e.g Vambraces of Defense, Helm of Fortune, cheap Armour of Caledor) it is now pretty hard to balance between offensive and defensive side of the Prince. I could have the option of downgrading the dragon from star to moon but the moon only has 6 wounds (6W) which means that it can get 1 shotted by a cannon compared with a Star Dragon which had 7W which on average need 2-3 cannon shots before it goes down. That 1W difference in massive; even though the Star Dragon gains an increase in toughness I do not think it's worth the extra point hike. But the Moon dragon is 150ss which I think is a steal considering 1) it hasn't risen in point cost compared to 7th Edition 2) It's armour save (AS) has been increased 3) it's breath weapon has increased to S4. Out of the 3 dragons I think the Moon dragon has potential as it's the only dragon to have benefitted in 8th edition compared to 7th edition. There are also other mount options but I consider them inferior especially with the cannonhammer in the current meta. Hence to counter it I've decided to go for the AFP.

Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix

So the AFP is an interesting pick as it confers a number of interesting benefits.
1) Any unit in base to base contact with the Frostheart Phoenix receives ASL (a.k.a bat swarm, stonehorn)
2) Any unit in base to base contact with the Frostheart Phoenix will be at -1S which is a really good hex/buff as elves are pretty much T3 which helps against anything S5.
3) The Frostheart Phoenix has 5+ WS (5++) which can be increased (or decreased) depending on the winds of magic on top of this they also have a 5+ AS which helps slightly against small arms fire.
4) The Frostheart Phoenix causes Terror! No terror checks!
5) The Frostheart Phoenix is toughness 6 (T6)! along with it's -1S it is essentially T7! which is massive! It is as tought as a Star Dragon!
5) The Anointed has a built in 4++ whih is great! We don't need to dedicated a ward save for him!
6) The Anointed has MR(2) which helps against magic missles (MM) and those pesky searing doom and spirit leech.
7) The Anointed has Immune to Psychology (ItP) which is good as he doesn't need to take panic test BUT when he is charged he has to take the charge which can be bad here. Can't be too aggressive as he can lose to combat resolution (CR).
8) The Anointed causes Fear but it's pretty useless because the Frostheart already causes Terror.
9) The Anointed gives a 6++ to people in the same unit but the Frostheart already has a better ward save and characters on monsterous mounts cannot join units so this skill is useless.

To the downside of the AFP
1) The Frostheart Phoenix can be 1 shotted by cannons as it only has 5W.
2) In the meta of monstrous cavalry (MC) the Frostheart Phoenix wont be able to stomp every target
3) The Anointed is ItP
4) At the moment The Anointed has no other equipment options - no access to dragon armour.
5) 70 points more expensive than the Prince and lower attack (A) and leadership (Ld) (but has other benefits to compensate.
6) No breath weapon

So as it can be seen the AFP has a mix bag of goodies and with the innate 4++ he can be built like a tank the only problem is that it has a low number of attacks; 3 from The Anointed and 4-5 from the Frostheart while in comparison the Prince on a Star Dragon had 4 from the Prince and 6 from the dragon with D6 S4 breath weapon! 16 potential maximum attacks! compared with 8! So obviously the damage output of the AFP compared to the Prince on the Star Dragon is alot lower. I have thought of a number of builds for the AFP

Build One - Anti-Hero
Sword of Anti-Heroes
Dawnstone
The Other Trickster's Shard
Enchanted Shield
Points:525

Great if the unit the AFP is attacking has alot of characters which substantially increases the number of attacks and strength both whic the AFP lacks. It also sports a 2+ re-rollable (RR) AS and forces enemy to RR their ward saves!

Build Two - Seredain
Giant Blade
Dawnstone
Enchanted Shield
Potion of Foolhardiness
Points: 545

Popularised by Seredain this build is a killer sporting 3S7 attacks and in the turn he charges receives +1A. Also sports a 2+ RR AS.

Build Three - Curu
Blade of the Leaping Gold
Potion of Strength
Enchanted Shield
Luckstone
Points: 550

So this build was stolen from Curu (hope you don't mind) and it is an interesting option which I may consider. The Blade of the Leaping Gold gives the user +3A and on roll of 6s to wound the target gets no armour save. So 6S4 attacks with a possibility of 1 of the those attacks having no AS. The Potion of Strength helps in one important round where it'll be 6S7. Still sporting 2+ AS but it can only RR once which isn't as tanky as other builds. I feel this steup is similar to that of a Vampire Lord with Quickblood, Redfury, Sword of Bloodshed, Potion of Strength which I know from experience can chop down a dragon!

So there you have it the three builds for my AFP. Obviously just looking at these builds isn't enough! I will post my suggested army list later on!
Last edited by pk-ng on Fri May 03, 2013 10:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#3 Post by pk-ng »

So the rest of my character setup will determine what sort of units I'll have for the rest of the army and with the AFP coming in around 525-550 it doesn't leave any points left for any of the other Lord level characters. So it comes to my hero level characters - which I have 600 points to spend in. As previously mention I've already spent 525-550 on my Lord level so I would like to spend around 450-500 in the hero section because I do not want to put too much points into my characters especially with HE been expensive. So I essentially need a Battle Standard Bearer (BSB) and at least a mage for magic defense (and offense). So my BSB will really put me in the direction of how I want to kit my AFP and there are a couple of builds to think about.

Build One - Reavercutter
Seahelm on Skycutter
Reaver Bow
Shield of Ptolos (or Ring of Fury)
Points: 265

The Seahelm's ability to give the Skycutter a 4++ against shooting will make the Skycutter quite durable even though it is just T4 with 4+ AS. The reason why I went with Shield of Ptolos is to my knowledge (from Hero's Blog) the Seahelm don't see to get any other equipment option and only has light armour and a trident...but this could be wrong in which it would change the setup. The idea of this setup is to make the BSB into a "mobile mini-RBT" with 3S5 shooting attacks. It won't be going into combat as light armour and been mounted means the Seahelm will only have a 5+ AS which is quite easy to overcome even if your S3. The Shield of Ptolos will against help the Seahelm against light arms fire. The other option is to replace the Shield with the Ring of Fury - 18" 2D6S4 MM is potent since the Seahelm will be flying around. If I get the chance to successfully cast this bound item I would also increase the Seahelm's ward save from a 4++ to a 3++ which is even better but it is really dependant on the magic phase. The Seahelm's natural save 5+ AS 4++ may not cut it for light arms fire.

Build Two - Star Destroyer
Noble on Barded Elven Steed
Star Lance
Dragonhelm
Potion of Foolhardiness
Luckstone
Shield
GW
Points: 172

I've seen this build popping up on the forums lately and it is a very interesting option especially if my AFP goes the Anti-Hero option and drops The Other Trickster's Shard for a Crown of Command. Essentially the AFP will hold up units and the BSB can be a in a Silver Helm bus and charge in to smash things up. 3S7 hits (or 4 with the Potion of Foolhardiness) along with however many Silver Helms I can muster for the charge. Also the BSB will have a 1+ AS on the charge and a 2+ AS in subsequent rounds because the BSB will be using the GW which confers to 3S6! Not too shabby and it packs quite a bit of punch! I'm really tempted to try this as I don't think Seahelm Reaver Bow will cut it in the meta of 1+ AS and Monstrous Cavalry and the Star Lance BSB is CHEAPER by ~100points.

The mage setup is going to be quite easy.

Level 2 High Mage (maybe mounted)
Dispel Scroll
Ring of Fury
Points: 170

If I mount the high mage it'll allow the mage to ride with the Silver Helms and can take benefit of the High Magic Lore attribute BUT it'll also expose the mage to alot of risk and I'll have 2 important characters in 1 unit. If he's unmounted he benefits from having multiple units he can join and he's cheap which point I do not have to spare at the moment. So it would seem he'll stay footed.
Last edited by pk-ng on Thu May 02, 2013 4:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#4 Post by pk-ng »

Core
So the dreaded core tax! 600 of the not so useful taxation. With the new army I think the core tax isn't such a liability as it was in our 7th edition book. We now have a wider variety of choices such as Silver Helms and Ellyrian Reavers (ER, Reavers) - which is great!. 2+ AS Cavalry and Fast Cav as our core are two very good choices and there's also a price drop in our Archers and Lothern Seaguard (LSG). The downside to this that command options have gone up in prices and First Amongst Equals only works on Spearmen so no more Flaming Archer unit which was one of the more popular setup and easier access to flaming range attacks.

As it can be seen I've already posted my army up on the first post and I've acutally gone with the Star Destroyer build on my BSB. The reasoning behind this is I don't see the Seahelm been that great and compare to the Noble BSB he's 90points more expensive and isn't as hitty as the Noble BSB. Granted the Seahelm BSB is on a Skycutter but looking at it it's only T4 with 4+ AS with 4++ which means that Skycutter can be easily shot down from him from light arms fire. Only 3S5 magic shots hitting on 3s/4s doesn't bold well. Granted it has some amazing utility such as magical range attacks and impact hit but I've substituted this with a unit of Maidenguard which gives me magical and flaming attacks. Plus I've also got 2x RBTs and some archers which I think is sufficient range power to clear chaff (MG & Archers), Wound some monsters with regen (MG, Archers and RBT) and punch through some heavy armour units (RBT). I think my physical range setup covers me quite neatly. And he isn't cut out for combat with I doubt the impact hits (S4) will do much.

So with the Star Destroyer BSB winning my core will obviously need some SHs to bunker the BSB in and also some Archers for some basic range chaff clearing (and redirecting if needed) and lastly a unit of Spearmen for breaking steadfast. Spearmen are cheaper enough to get this job done and with 25 it's the bear minimum in my experience for them to be able to break steadfast. Granted I would like to have more probably either 30 or 35 but I just don't have the points for them and I'm unwilling to sacifice the Archers or make the SHs smaller. What I love about the SH is it is 2+ AS and it's M9! M9 is massive which means I can get into combat faster and have more maneurvability that most heavy cavalry choices.

Rare
Yes I'm doing rare first before doing my special choices the reason for this is that now HE has alot more rare choice then in the 7th edition book (RBT & GE). In the new book we have:

Great Eagle - which can form units and get upgrades - ASF! yes please!
Repeater Bolt Throwers - which are the same as before but cheaper
Frostheart Phoenix - new unit and has great synergy with us especially -1S and ASL aura (aka flying stonehorn!)
Flamespyre Phoenix - new unit and is also really good at killing low armoured rank and file units with it's Flame Trial ability and as a mount it offers 2++ against flaming attacks!
Maidenguard - new unit as well and they offer magical flaming range attacks which is great against ethereal and regen units. They are pricy though coming in at 7ss and only 24" but they are BS5 which means hitting on 3s/4s most of the time. Not too shabby and also they are S4 and have AP vs forces of destruction.

OK so my rare choices I've selected are a unit of 10 Maidenguard for their magical flaming ranged attacks, 1 Frostheart Phoenix, 2 RBTs and 1 GE with all upgrades.
Some people (looks like alot) have written off maidenguard because they have only 24" range archers and they also take up rare points. But I think they have a really good niche role in which they replace our flaming archers and they are our only ranged unit with magical attacks! Granted that there aren't make ethereal unit (unless you're facing VC) but it helps that it's covering 2 bases and I have my AFP, BSB and Phoenix to bring is redunacy for magical attacks. Is 10 Maidenguard sufficient to get rid of regen in the shooting phase? It remains to be seen but if I wanted to increasae the side of the MG I would need to drop my other rares and I'm unwilling to do so. We will see how they perform in the next battles and see if they do have a place in the army. Next up our good old RBTs. Same as before but 35ss...granted it's gone down in price (not as much as I would like) but at least you can get 3 RBTs for the price of 2 old RBTs. What's not to like about 48" 6S4AP shots or 1S6 no AS shots. Great for taking out those pesky 1+ AS cavalry units or MCs which is so popular in the meta nowadays. The question: what is better against 1+ AS Cavalry: multi-shot or single-shot?

Great Eagle with ASF and AP enough said. We all love our eagles and given that Reavers are now in our core I think there's going to be some competition between reavers and great eagles. Is ASF worth it for 5ss? I think so as it means it can win combat against most light cavalry or skirmishers and has the ability to go on suicide runs to kill any wizards with 1 or 2 wounds left! The AP on the other hand isn't that useful but I had 5 remaining points so I thought I'll chuck it on and see how useful it'll be in combat.
The Frostheart phoenix! 1 is good but is having 2 overdoing it? My other option is I could mount my Lord on the Flamespyre or have the Flamesypre as my other rare choice. Having another phoenix is great because with my RBTs my oppoents will have to make a choice between shooting my Lord, the phoenix or RBTs and in the event my Lord dies at least I have a backup Frostheart Phoenix. The FHP for 15 points more has 1 more WS, S, T, A, Ld but 1 less initiative with no "reborn" rule. I think the FHP is a better mount and the Flamespyre is better unmounted as you can use its flame trial more efficiently but just flying over RnF! The great thing about the Flamespyre is that it can "reborn" and if there's a rider it'll reborn (with the rider) on 5+ which is 33% of getting 625VPs (525ish and 100VPs for kill the general). That's a pretty big swing but I think the ASL and -1S wins it for me and also the FHP better in combat compared to the Flamespyre.

Special
Ok with the Characters, Core and Rare set it was time to decide what I would do for my remaining 300ish points. Well I needed some grinding units and threating units such as either swordmasters, white lions or maybe more support such as the shadow warriors or chariots. I had a number of options to choose from either
18 SM/WL w Musician & 5 WL/SM
or
18 SM/WL w Musician & 5 SW
or
~20 SM/WL w Musician + other command magical items
I'm not sure which option is optimal in my list - I've been using the WLs on my old dragon list and it compliments it quite well but with the new martial prowess(MP) rule and no speed of asuryan (SoA) I've yet to figure which unit (SM or WL) would be better at grinding. Yes we all know SM has more grinding power due to having 2A and WL is better against armour. SM is slightly more survivable new with the 6++ against shooting and if I place my mage in there the High lore attribute increases its survivability even more. The WLs are still the same but with MP and no SoA and a big block of them could be quite useful especially with the Banner of Swiftness so to keep up with the Phoenixes and the SHs. Shadow Warriors (SW) have improved compared to the old book with an increase to BS 5 and a reduction in points and if i field a group of 5 that's a) another drop and b) a scouting unit which is quite useful in taking strategic positions in to blocking marches and harassing chaff and war machines. When shooting they will be hitting on 3s or maybe 4s which is great. I also just realised when typing this out I only have 1 redirecting unit which is the eagle and having a unit of scouts would give me another redirector which is sorely lacking in my current army. I'll stick with having the SM as my grinding unit and see how they play out as I'm really tempted to use WLs due to them a) having higher strength which is great against armour b) stubborn c) better shooting protection which means they get into combat with more bodies.
Last edited by pk-ng on Sat May 04, 2013 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#5 Post by pk-ng »

Highest Wind of Magic Dice
Effect on the Phoenix
1 ~ -1 Ward save
2 ~ -1 Strength
3 ~ +1 Initiative
4 ~ +1 Attack
5 ~ +1 Strength
6 ~ 4+ Ward

1 ~ 3% 1 / 36 (only possible on a double 1)
2 ~ 9% 3/36 (1,2 - 2,1 and 2,2)
3 ~ 14% 5/36 (4 different results with 3 being the highest and double 3)
4 ~ 19% 7/36 (6 different results with 4 being the highest and double 4)
5 ~ 25% 9/36 (8 different results with 5 being the highest and double 5)
6 ~ 30% 11/36 (10 different results with 6 being the highest and double 6)

Very useful chart and credit given to Silver for this.
Last edited by pk-ng on Sun May 05, 2013 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#6 Post by pk-ng »

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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#7 Post by Marinero »

The frostheart has 5W - cheers ;)
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#8 Post by Silver »

Sword of Anti-Heroes
Dawnstone
The Other Trickster's Shard
Enchanted Shield
TOTS also makes any attacks by the phoenix force enemy ward save rerolls, always a good idea to have that item on the Anointed.

I had initially thought about making mine more of a "cannon ball tank" with the Golden Crown to get a 2+ ward against a wound and charmed shield for a 2+ ignore hit. Makes him 500 pts (including Sword of Anti-Heroes and Trickter's).

My only problem with the Phoenix Anointed is that you can't also have an Archmage or Loremaster along for the game.

Anointed on foot might be a better option. Remains to be tested.

Also for the phoenix variant - Crown of Command may be a good idea..
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#9 Post by pk-ng »

@Marinero - Thanks!

@ Silver - Good points there but I really want to try out something similar to a Prince on Star Dragon but didn't want to go Prince on Moon Dragon. Hence testing it out. As for your variant I saw this before and it looks interesting but I'm thinking if it's worth it as I would need to drop the TOTS for the CoC. Need to play test first!
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#10 Post by Ferny »

How does he compare to an unridden birdy - or even, given the points saved, two unridden birdies?

Does he add enough to the mount to make it worth the pretty huge points investment? I like the idea of Crown of Command - this seems like a pretty good tarpit unit; fast, directable, decent damage output, pretty resilient. If the plan is to hit them next turn with a cavalry bus/griffon/something else hitty and fast this seems good. It potentially removes variance from this plan which the bird alone could not do (although two together maybe could - -2S, 2xthunderstomp!, or ranks reducing kills from flamespire)? But it seems very expensive unless it has a very specific role linked to another unit or two.

I also like TOTS as it works for the Pheonix too, although I'm not convinced that he's the best character killer we can field so would be tempted against this - I think the points could be spent better.

I'm also not sold on the leaping gold sword - it strikes me as not quite having a clear combat role. More attacks for killing Rank N File - we should have that covered. Chance on removing AS - doesn't seem enough if you also have to wound and possibly against multi-wound opponents, especially given his low base strength.

I think these last two builds are maybe trying to replicate the success people had with the star dragon build, but at first glance they don't look to be all-out offensive enough to fill that role. That said, I'll be interested to see how they play out and I'm probably biased against these builds because I mostly played infantry &/or magic heavy lists, so combat characters mounted on monsters are outside of my main experience.
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#11 Post by Ferny »

Although I suppose the PoS is essential in the leaping gold list and that might change things...?
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#12 Post by jamierk »

I can't get my head around this guy. Compared with a prince he's 70 points more, and his main advantages is that he comes with a ward save, ItP (not that useful in my lists, and can be counter productive when you don't want to take a charge), and can ride a Phoenix. I would like to include him but I can't make him worth the points.

Re: phoenixs, I think I will take him on a flame Phoenix and use him very aggressively, with the expectation of getting him back later in the game. For tm games the idea of having to kill him twice should be enough to drive your opponent mad, and if he can just take something out before he dies he could be an asset. But as others have said, that comes at the cost of a Lvl 4 mage :-(
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#13 Post by pk-ng »

@Ferny - For the Blade of Leaping Gold I think the PoS is essentially as in 1 important round of combat you can chop things up with 6S7 attacks. That'll mince through 1+ AS and MCs. Compared to an unridden phoenix I'm not sure if the Anointed adds that much but it's the fact that I can get 2 Frostheart phoenixes without having to take up so many points in rare. This gives me more options in the rare section! I've yet to write it out but I've figure what my setup would be and in the rare section I'll be using 2x repeater bolt throwers (RBT), a unit of 10 Maidenguard (MG), 1 Great Eagle (GE) and another Frostheart Phoenix (FHP). That's alot of points in rare (585ish) and I think with the 2 FHP they can tag team together well or tag team with other units in my army - such as Swordmasters (SM) and my Silver Helms (SH). Can the Anointed be as choppy as the prince on star dragon? Maybe I'm not sure and it's hard to say until we've play-tested a choppy AFP. The thing with the Prince of Star Dragon is I find with my old setup (Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Vambraces of Defense, Talisman of Loc) is that the Dragon does all the choppy whilst the prince only just helps out a little. in the Seredian AFP build I think he's more choppy than the old prince setup as he's carrying a Giant Blade and AFP can take on the VC Knight Bus! But as previously stated it needs to be test-trialed to see how well it performs.

@jamierk - You've made a valid point. For that additional 70 points you get one less leadership and attack but you gain 4++, ItP, Fear, 6++ to the unit he's in and some equipment. Granted that he can't use some of his ability: 6++ and Fear (since there Phoenix already has Terror) but i think the option of having him been able to ride either the Frostheart or the Flamespyre is quite good and also his innate 4++ which means I don't need to spend that much points on defensive gear compared to the Prince. Having the Anointed on a Flamespyre maybe a liability because if the Phoenix dies the rider dies as well - granted the rider gets "reborn" if you roll a 6 but at least on the Frostheart if the phoenix dies the rider is still alive and kicking and has a 3+ RR with 4++ which decent for an infantry model. Also he'll be able to join units to confer the 6++ to them and also give the unit ItP and make the enemy unit test fear test.
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#14 Post by jamierk »

Don't forget, it's plus 1 for the roll on the reborn Phoenix table. Ie if the Phoenix dies, you only lose both on a 1, 2-4 is the template at s4 and keep the marker, 5-6 they are both reborn and the rider has full wounds. I'm going to try a 4 Phoenix list like this for fun!
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#15 Post by jamierk »

I had another though, with his freed up magic item allowance you could throw in crown of command. Then use him as a unit tank by charging in an tanking a champion. Could be useful against units like MC if they are deployed in 1 rank (can't avoid a challenge) to hold it in place whilst lining up another charge (dragon princes or silver helms). Here's a question, if a single model who charges into combat and issues a challenge, survives and remains in the challenge, can he be charged? He's in a challenge so you can't contact his base?
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#16 Post by pk-ng »

jamierk wrote:Don't forget, it's plus 1 for the roll on the reborn Phoenix table. Ie if the Phoenix dies, you only lose both on a 1, 2-4 is the template at s4 and keep the marker, 5-6 they are both reborn and the rider has full wounds. I'm going to try a 4 Phoenix list like this for fun!
I read somewhere only the phoenix gets reborn not that rider and the phoenix is reborn D3+2 wounds.
jamierk wrote:I had another though, with his freed up magic item allowance you could throw in crown of command. Then use him as a unit tank by charging in an tanking a champion. Could be useful against units like MC if they are deployed in 1 rank (can't avoid a challenge) to hold it in place whilst lining up another charge (dragon princes or silver helms). Here's a question, if a single model who charges into combat and issues a challenge, survives and remains in the challenge, can he be charged? He's in a challenge so you can't contact his base?
If it's a champion it can avoid the challenge. Champions do not have to move if they refuse they challenge. Regardless of whether the unit/model is in a challenge you can still charge him. The challenge does not make it "un-chargable". You are just not allowed to attack him as he's in a "fight of honour".
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#17 Post by jamierk »

Thanks for clearing that up.

The iBooks sample definitely stated that the rider is also reborn at full wounds. I'm yet to hear it from anyone with the full book yet, so I guess I'll find out tomorrow :-)
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#18 Post by Ferny »

After I wrote it I spent all night at work wondering whether I'd done him down. Combined with the birdie he is a decent character killer and in that context the TOTS counts for a lot, and likewise the BoLG+PoS. So I've kinda changed my mind a bit and am going to backtrack - I think he can make a good combat character...but like jamierk said, I'm not sure he can easily make his points back.

I get what you're saying about this being a way to squeeze more out of your rares and still get two frost pheonixes, it just seems a very expensive way to do it...but I guess that's one of the joys of list building :).
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#19 Post by pk-ng »

jamierk wrote:Thanks for clearing that up.

The iBooks sample definitely stated that the rider is also reborn at full wounds. I'm yet to hear it from anyone with the full book yet, so I guess I'll find out tomorrow :-)
rubbing my hands already!
Ferny wrote:After I wrote it I spent all night at work wondering whether I'd done him down. Combined with the birdie he is a decent character killer and in that context the TOTS counts for a lot, and likewise the BoLG+PoS. So I've kinda changed my mind a bit and am going to backtrack - I think he can make a good combat character...but like jamierk said, I'm not sure he can easily make his points back.

I get what you're saying about this being a way to squeeze more out of your rares and still get two frost pheonixes, it just seems a very expensive way to do it...but I guess that's one of the joys of list building :).
You made a valid point because I remember I had a game vs VC Knight Bus. The VC lord went with Sword of Bloodshed + Potion of Strength. It charged my Prince of Star Dragon and my dragon died but I only got him down to 1 wound :(. 4S5 attack barely able to kill a VC lord. The question is what will 3S4+how many heroes will kill? Or depends if you go with my Seredain build :)
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#20 Post by jamierk »

I can confirm (with ipad in hand) that the rider is reborn with full wounds (the mount is d3 plus 2 wounds).
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#21 Post by pk-ng »

jamierk wrote:I can confirm (with ipad in hand) that the rider is reborn with full wounds (the mount is d3 plus 2 wounds).
Very interesting I may be tempted to switch one of my Phoenixs for a Flamespyre but my only problem with the Flamespyre he's actually not that get in combat and he's flame trial is only good against RnF. But this flaming attacks but have potential especially with people bringing Chimeras, Trolls. Nurgle and Hydras. Will really depend on the meta and how the new HE book will affect the game.

I've finally finished typing my troop selection rationale.
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#22 Post by jamierk »

Also, I think the flame will give 2+ ward to the annointed against flaming
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#23 Post by pk-ng »

jamierk wrote:Also, I think the flame will give 2+ ward to the annointed against flaming
Yes it does but the Anointed has 4++ and MR(2). Only things to worry about is skillcannons!
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#24 Post by jamierk »

Most dwarf war machines take the flaming rune as its very cheap.
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#25 Post by pk-ng »

jamierk wrote:Most dwarf war machines take the flaming rune as its very cheap.
True true....well I think there's only 1 dwarf player in my area so no big deal.

So I've lined up my first game in 2 weeks so gonna start modelings and rubbing my hands!
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#26 Post by jamierk »

Just opened my first Phoenix box (2 more on the way)!
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#27 Post by kostasrag8 »

i like your list a lot.

the only thing i would change is , BoWD on SMs and a different weapon on the anointed


question.
cannon shoots at phoenix .
1)anointed dies from the cannon so does the phoenix., you roll 6 for the reborn , does both come back ? my point is does the phoenix counts as mounted even though the lord is dead?
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#28 Post by pk-ng »

kostasrag8 wrote:i like your list a lot.

the only thing i would change is , BoWD on SMs and a different weapon on the anointed


question.
cannon shoots at phoenix .
1)anointed dies from the cannon so does the phoenix., you roll 6 for the reborn , does both come back ? my point is does the phoenix counts as mounted even though the lord is dead?
Yes I know everyone is raving about BotWD and I may include it in my army but that probably means I have to drop my SW. But I will want to see how the setup goes before I do any changes.

As for the Reborn for the phoenix it's only for the Flame Phoenix
If the rider dies first then the phoenix dies only the Phoenix resurrects
If the rider and phoenix dies AT THE SAME TIME (e.g same cannon shot) then they BOTH resurrect and do so on a 5+ instead of a 6+.
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#29 Post by Lecai »

pk-ng wrote:3) The Frostheart Phoenix has 5+ WS (5++) which can be increased (or decreased) depending on the winds of magic on top of this they also have a 5+ AS which helps slightly against small arms fire.
I think it's important to add that "Attuned to Magic" only has a tiny 3% chance to reduce your birdie's Ward Save from 5++ to 6++ that will only happen after a 'Winds result of "1,1" snake-eyes. The chance to increase your Ward to a 4++ is pretty big with a whopping 30% resulting from any 6's showing up on a 'Winds roll.

Here's Silver's very helpful "Attuned to Magic" thread for reference: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=45183
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Re: Rise of the Anointed!

#30 Post by pk-ng »

Lecai wrote:
pk-ng wrote:3) The Frostheart Phoenix has 5+ WS (5++) which can be increased (or decreased) depending on the winds of magic on top of this they also have a 5+ AS which helps slightly against small arms fire.
I think it's important to add that "Attuned to Magic" only has a tiny 3% chance to reduce your birdie's Ward Save from 5++ to 6++ that will only happen after a 'Winds result of "1,1" snake-eyes. The chance to increase your Ward to a 4++ is pretty big with a whopping 30% resulting from any 6's showing up on a 'Winds roll.

Here's Silver's very helpful "Attuned to Magic" thread for reference: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=45183
Wow Lecai that's really really useful!
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